Critique of FM08 transfer mechanism - will it ever change?

[Rico73]

Back to the post guys! The 'Transfer' system has been an issue for a while now as we all know, it would be nice to get some sort of progress report from SI on it. As is mentioned by the majority of posts in this thread it is virtually impossible to sell a player you feel you don't need. In my M.U. game I offered Saha to clubs for free and no-one was interested! A club such as 'Boro would have bitten my hand off irl!

[chachi]

Excellent thread with some great posts. I have been playing this game for around ten years now and have always been a massive fan, but i have recently become very disillusioned by the game and its makers.

I agree 100% about the transfer issue, you are expected to pay way over the odds for players you want, and the players you no longer need, even if they are seasoned internationals, cant be given away for nothing!

Its almost understantable that you would be expected to pay alot of money for a player who is a key component of a team (as i would expect an AI team to do the same for any of my players) but some of the asking prices are just ridiculous. What annoys me the most is when it comes to trying to sell your players (like the above example where someone couldnt get rid of Saha even for the grand fee of £0), this is so unrealistic its untrue, even quality international players cannot be sold for any kind of decent return.

As the game popularity has increased the game quality has regressed, its mind blowing to think that things that worked fine in previous editions have actually gone wrong in the new releases, the main example being "player registration" for those unaware of this issue it basically makes any leagues where player registration is required almost unplayable, as you lose all your players in the B teams (reserve) and C teams (under 19's). There are dozens of threads regarding this issue (both pre and post 8.0.1 patch) yet the problem has not been fixed, even though SI stated it has been noted and even stated the issue had been resolved in the patch, which it obviously has not been!

like they say if it aint broke dont try to fix it, and when things like the transfer system and match engine are falling apart and bordering broken, do more then apply a touch of polyfiller!!!

As it has been stated above by others SI are more concerned with selling the game and attracting new customers then looking after its bread and butter, loyal and long standing customer base who probably make up over 85% of game sales.

[edved]

I totally agree with everything you say chachi.

Disillusioned is really the accurate word to describe the situation. When I last posted I had only just begun my first game in FM08 and I hadn't encountered the registration bug yet.

As I almost always play with Real Madrid in La Liga I of courseran into this massive problem halfway through the first season and it completely ruined the game.

Not only had the game lost 50% of its fun already due to the absolutely broken transfer system we've all been discussing in this thread and complaining about for years, but now I've finally had the unfortune of running into one of these famous bugs which ruins the last 50% of the game.

I just can't believe it anymore. Literally hundreds of bugs every freakin' time the game is released - I can't even believe I kept my mouth shut for this long. I don't know if those who read game magazines or reviews have ever read critique of this but I hope someone would draw attention to this issue.

Well, I guess it doesn't help whining, as SI is probably indifferent to all of this.

But it really would be the decent thing to at least reply in a thread like this and let us know if wecan expect the transfer system issue to be sorted out or if they actually believe themselves that everything is just dandy.

But I guess it's just easier to stay away instead of doing the decent thing and start caring. But to us lot that have reached 30 and have long since left the school yard, the absense of a genuine debate on this issue - involving SI - is really mind puzzling to say the least.

If SI doesn't deliver soon I hope another decent football manager game will emerge - I at least won't hesitate in cheating on my old mistress CM/FM, as she has gotten tired and ugly of late..

[Starr_Man5]

This thread certainly is an eye-opener. Sort of "Accepting the truth".

I'm still playing FM07 at the minute and the transfer system has to be the most infuriating thing about the game.

Cannot sell players for love nor money, it's so difficult it's embarrassingly stupid.

Example: I'm playing as Liverpool and decide that I'd like to increase my Transfer budget in order to buy Vicente from Valencia (Who I know the bastard AI will only sell for approx. £27M).

So I put Peter Crouch up for sale at face Value £9.5M to begin with.

After a few weeks of unsurprising frustration, and no offers, I lower his asking price to £5M.

A week later still no offers, so I lower AGAIN to £4M and "Offer to Clubs"...

I get three clubs saying they aren't interested, one club saying the offer "Doesn't represent value for money" and one club (Lyon, IIRC) offering £500K up front and £3.2M over 24 months (Or something completely stupid like that, so don't quote me on it!)

Now I don't care what your personal opinion is of Peter Crouch, the fact is he is an England International with a remarkably prolific record at international level. The majority of clubs in the Premier League ALONE would take your bloody hand off if you were to offer him for £4/5M, but in FM it's just odd, like nobody has any money or like buying players isn't really part of clubs' agenda, I dunno...

I totally agree with every single one of the OP's points. And it's something that, sadly, still needs significant work.

[Ched]

Originally posted by Starr_Man5:

This thread certainly is an eye-opener. Sort of "Accepting the truth".

I'm still playing FM07 at the minute and the transfer system has to be the most infuriating thing about the game.

Cannot sell players for love nor money, it's so difficult it's embarrassingly stupid.

Example: I'm playing as Liverpool and decide that I'd like to increase my Transfer budget in order to buy Vicente from Valencia (Who I know the bastard AI will only sell for approx. £27M).

So I put Peter Crouch up for sale at face Value £9.5M to begin with.

After a few weeks of unsurprising frustration, and no offers, I lower his asking price to £5M.

A week later still no offers, so I lower AGAIN to £4M and "Offer to Clubs"...

I get three clubs saying they aren't interested, one club saying the offer "Doesn't represent value for money" and one club (Lyon, IIRC) offering £500K up front and £3.2M over 24 months (Or something completely stupid like that, so don't quote me on it!)

Now I don't care what your personal opinion is of Peter Crouch, the fact is he is an England International with a remarkably prolific record at international level. The majority of clubs in the Premier League ALONE would take your bloody hand off if you were to offer him for £4/5M, but in FM it's just odd, like nobody has any money or like buying players isn't really part of clubs' agenda, I dunno...

I totally agree with every single one of the OP's points. And it's something that, sadly, still needs significant work.

One of the most amusing responses to the "offer to club" thing i had the other day. I offered benayoun to clubs for £0, and in response i got a number of enquiries....a bit strange when all i had asked for was 0, but i responded to the enquiries with a demand of £0. All 6 of the clubs refused. Why do clubs bother enquiring for a player who they value at less than £0???? Unless i'm greatly mistaken there isn't an option to give them money AND the player!

[zeke]

Excellent and constructive post here.

The transfer system really needs to be fixed.

There was no problems in CM01/02 and that was actually one of the main points that kept intrest in longterm games.

[snootyjim]

Any Manchester United or Everton fans will no doubt remember the circumstances under which Phil Neville conducted his transfer...

More or less, Neville said he fancied a move elsewhere, Ferguson picked up the phone to David Moyes, and before Ferguson's even finished his sentence Moyes is getting in touch with the chairman to arrange a fee. It would be much the same if Peter Crouch, Darren Fletcher, etc were made available. Most clubs in the Premiership would be more than happy to put £5-8m in to capture the signing. Only recently I had to give Ji-Sung Park mutual termination because nobody would sign him.

Then there's the other thing...

AI Clubs Lacking Intelligence

A while back I was trying to get shut of some members of the youth team, nothing special but still all worth decent amounts. A club came in with a loan offer, which I thought was fine. But I wanted to get shut of the lad, so I put in an option to buy clause for £200k, returned the offer, and waited for a response.

Unbelievably, they responded with a 'not interested' and ended all communications. I'd given them a clause on top of what they wanted, only beneficial, and they'd refused. It was completely ridiculous tbh. It's a pity, because it's one of those things that just ruins the sense of realism.

[Starr_Man5]

There just seems to be "No Life" in the transfer market in FM.

In real life the transfer market is a fast and furious place with players moving around all over the place for sometimes vastly inflated fees. But in FM that simply doesn't happen - FM is like a Cocoon film or something.

"Slows Ville"

"....**** sake just ****ing buy some ****ing players off me you incompetent ****ing bastard."

To be honest, what I've been doing lately is pre-editing the DB so the players I know I'll want to get rid of will move to the teams I assume would want to buy them, a few days into a new game, for the price they'd be likely to go for in todays market. It feels like I'm ruining the game by "Cheating" like that, but I simply can't get shot of players any other way, sadly.

[cabello]

Initially, I was irked by the lack of response by SI. It took close to two weeks before Ter acknowledged the existence of this thread, but by his own admittance, he is not the one responsible for this.

My next obvious question is, can we get the people "in the know" at SI to kindly response to this thread?

Or is non accountability a corporate virtue at SI, and we wait till FM09 to see if there has been any changes to this flawed transfer system?

[baq22]

since fm 2007 now playn 2008, i try to sell saha at a loower price and mmmm no one wants him , i tried to sell him for 0 and the same thing , non

[Wlv]

Really good posts on this thread, agree with most the points.

Would really like to see the transfer details more centralised.

For example, at the moment, if we scout a player, we get told that we may need to bid x amount.

Why isn't this on the main transfer screen?

Would be nice to get further information here, like a rating of the AI/User Managers transfer stats. (Easy to buy from/haggler/doesnt sell).

Regarding contracts, as it stands, irl you generally invite the player you are negotiating with to come look at your stadium, training grounds etc, would nice to see this integrated a bit more.

I think the players need to be able to take more things into consideration, such as the teams potential, the boardroom, how the team has grown in the past few years and so on.

[Negatrev]

Originally posted by Wlv:

Really good posts on this thread, agree with most the points.

Would really like to see the transfer details more centralised.

For example, at the moment, if we scout a player, we get told that we may need to bid x amount.

Why isn't this on the main transfer screen?

Would be nice to get further information here, like a rating of the AI/User Managers transfer stats. (Easy to buy from/haggler/doesnt sell).

Regarding contracts, as it stands, irl you generally invite the player you are negotiating with to come look at your stadium, training grounds etc, would nice to see this integrated a bit more.

I think the players need to be able to take more things into consideration, such as the teams potential, the boardroom, how the team has grown in the past few years and so on.

In the past, players have joined me saying it was because of my great training facilities. It's just they mostly say to join a successful or well supported club so you don't notice they actually had different motivations.

From this I believe they do take some of those things into consideration.

[Wlv]

^^ Think i've had that once or twice in the lower leagues in 07, not seen it in 08 yet!

If it is taken into consideration, would be nice if its shown as well!

[davidbowie]

Don't know if I've posted in here yet.

As Manchester United (quoted myself from an older thread):

I managed to keep Pique, but then he (chairman) sold a better prospect right winger wonderkid who was going to be as good as ronaldo, for 10 million. He cost 4 million. He had a 50% on sale. The club made the huge profit if 1 million pounds. On a 20 year old wonderkid.

Sold to Tottenham.

[Ched]

Originally posted by cabello:

Or is non accountability a corporate virtue at SI, and we wait till FM09 to see if there has been any changes to this flawed transfer system?

Worryingly this is looking like the case

Maybe someone (with appropriate knowledge) will grace us with an opinion f what they think (or maybe even know??) will be done or could be done for FM09, as it is, all we're left with is speculation.

[Taffytoffee]

What about instead of taking players on trial or just after being able to give them short term deals say for 3 months, so they could play in league and cup games.

[Guest Galezhang]

Originally posted by T-Bag:

Another issue is players seem perfectly happy to rot in a teams reserves for 3 years rather than join another club,

Unless, of course, if they're on your team. Then they'll be very unhappy if you don't play them regularly in competitive matches even though they're all pure sh*te!

[rbnrbn]

personally im more concerned with the matchday AI. Sort it out si! My players constantly seem to be tripping themselves up. odd!

[endtime]

Originally posted by Ched:

Worryingly this is looking like the case

Maybe someone (with appropriate knowledge) will grace us with an opinion f what they think (or maybe even know??) will be done or could be done for FM09, as it is, all we're left with is speculation.

I don't have the appropriate knowledge but personally I'm not really optimistic, since I suppose fixing this issue would probably involve a complete rewrite of both the transfer and the financial module, plus at least a major tweak to the AI. Somehow I don't think this is going to happen; I obviously haven't seen the code of the game, but judging from the problems SI have had with issues like the squad registration bug, it must be a bit of a mess, and introducing such sweeping changes might not be viable, if not downright impossible in the limited timeframe for the next release.

[Ched]

Originally posted by endtime:

I don't have the appropriate knowledge but personally I'm not really optimistic, since I suppose fixing this issue would probably involve a complete rewrite of both the transfer and the financial module, plus at least a major tweak to the AI. Somehow I don't think this is going to happen; I obviously haven't seen the code of the game, but judging from the problems SI have had with issues like the squad registration bug, it must be a bit of a mess, and introducing such sweeping changes might not be viable, if not downright impossible in the limited timeframe for the next release.

I think the limited timeframe is an issue of SI's making. As they did with an earlier CM, why not make FM09 a glorified patch and put a full 2 years (or whats left of 2 years...) of effort into making FM10 a SIGNIFICANTLY improved game, rather than a half finished buggy mess.

I mean, it's not as if FM09 is going to have serious competition, and it's not as if SI are going to make it THAT much better than 08, so why not just skip the token improvements and give us something worth buying??

[endtime]

Why would they, though? The game sells well regardless of the state it's in. Maybe this year's debacle will hurt sales enough so that SI will put a greater emphasis on testing, but somehow I doubt it.

Besides, would you pay a full price for a game that is only a glorified patch? I mean, when you think about it, we should be getting a relatively bug-free game without having to pay for it twice.

Plus, I imagine SI have an obligation in their contract with Sega which says that they must release a new iteration every year, etc. I don't think the publisher would take kindly to SI saying "we'll need to take a break from FM, so no bestseller this year while you pay our wages, sorry".

SI seem to have painted themselves into a corner

regarding the fixing old bugs vs. implementing new features issue; most, or at least some of the new features will not be working properly in the release version, which means more bugs to fix. Then there will be things that were working properly in the previous version, or even in the previous patch, but are somehow broken now. This just leaves a mounting number of issues to take care of, while the timeframe remains the same. Inevitably some cracks will be just papered over or downright ignored. I don't really see a way out of this

[Ched]

Originally posted by endtime:

Besides, would you pay a full price for a game that is only a glorified patch? I mean, when you think about it, we should be getting a relatively bug-free game without having to pay for it twice.

if it was a bug free version of FM08 (and i mean properly bug free) then i would quite happily pay for it. Unfortunately i seem to be in the minority, most want new features even at the expense of quality

[turnip]

Originally posted by cabello:

Initially, I was irked by the lack of response by SI. It took close to two weeks before Ter acknowledged the existence of this thread, but by his own admittance, he is not the one responsible for this.

My next obvious question is, can we get the people "in the know" at SI to kindly response to this thread?

Or is non accountability a corporate virtue at SI, and we wait till FM09 to see if there has been any changes to this flawed transfer system?

Not the best post I've read all week.

I'm guessing a large part of the reason that SI haven't responded here (except Ter) is the reason stated in Miles' stickied post; the forums aren't a very nice place to visit most of the time. And with the responses I've seen when SI do post in topics, I'm not surprised.

And you assume that silence = non-accountability? That's just stupid. If SI were to announce any changes they're planning for FM09, that gives their competitors months of advance notice to change their own products. Not likely.

[DeathSpawn]

Originally posted by turnip:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cabello:

Initially, I was irked by the lack of response by SI. It took close to two weeks before Ter acknowledged the existence of this thread, but by his own admittance, he is not the one responsible for this.

My next obvious question is, can we get the people "in the know" at SI to kindly response to this thread?

Or is non accountability a corporate virtue at SI, and we wait till FM09 to see if there has been any changes to this flawed transfer system?

Not the best post I've read all week.

I'm guessing a large part of the reason that SI haven't responded here (except Ter) is the reason stated in Miles' stickied post; the forums aren't a very nice place to visit most of the time. And with the responses I've seen when SI do post in topics, I'm not surprised.

And you assume that silence = non-accountability? That's just stupid. If SI were to announce any changes they're planning for FM09, that gives their competitors months of advance notice to change their own products. Not likely. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

people come here and complain and wait for an answer from SI, most of times SI never answers anything, so it obvious people next time will be agressive because we complain and SI doesnt give a s*** because they will always sell lots of FM copies.

look at the fixtures bug in which our players go to internationa duty in champs league final and league cup final, this bug has been for years in FM, i never saw SI giving an answer and year after year the bug is still in game, why wouldnt we be angry with this situation???

i'll give another example of SI taking too long to answer: i've been in this forum since 25 October 2005 and only in this year the researcher from my country showed up on the data thread. of course there was flaming to him in previouse years, he never showed up back then

[aenariel]

Originally posted by turnip:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cabello:

Initially, I was irked by the lack of response by SI. It took close to two weeks before Ter acknowledged the existence of this thread, but by his own admittance, he is not the one responsible for this.

My next obvious question is, can we get the people "in the know" at SI to kindly response to this thread?

Or is non accountability a corporate virtue at SI, and we wait till FM09 to see if there has been any changes to this flawed transfer system?

Not the best post I've read all week.

I'm guessing a large part of the reason that SI haven't responded here (except Ter) is the reason stated in Miles' stickied post; the forums aren't a very nice place to visit most of the time. And with the responses I've seen when SI do post in topics, I'm not surprised.

And you assume that silence = non-accountability? That's just stupid. If SI were to announce any changes they're planning for FM09, that gives their competitors months of advance notice to change their own products. Not likely. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree. Stating "we've read your opinions and we're working on it" would suffice here. By not replying, it's like "we don't give a damn". And soon people will stop suggesting stuff because there's simply no feedback on what they suggest, be it good or bad.

I, for example, really do not feel the drive to suggest anything anymore, because I know it will fall in this forums' chaotic state ATM and no one will even read it, if most.

> And that's why I feel that a suggestion forum, heavily moderated, is a must if SI wants to keep getting proper feedback from their users/clients.

This thread is a very important one and I just hope it doesn't simply "die" because no one bothers to acknowledge it.

[milamber]

I've discovered an annoying Transfer-related bug.

When I enquire about a player (let's say he's worth about 1 million). AI club says they'll accept 1.2 million. I click on Submit Offer. They counter with a higher demand. And it keeps going on like this until I give up.

Forgive me if my memory is wrong, but in previous games didn't we just click on Accept Offer.

The new "fluid" negotiation system where you submit an offer based on the enquiry reply opens a can of unnecessary worms.

[Seagulls Forever]

My 2c worth:-

1. The transfer system doesn't really work, much as has been said before in this thread so there's no need to repeat it.

2. Relating this to the "these forums" topic stickied for the last three months. Miles asks to end the pithy one-liners etc. Presumably he wants nice long posts where people have taken the time to post constructively. We get just such a post here and Ter's reply amounts to "don't test it, play it" or "you sad bugger get a life", and the always patronising "complex code" line.

SI need to decide that the purpose of these forums is.

[Ackter]

Transfer system needs a massive re-do imo.

[Seagulls Forever]

I wonder.. do we have anyone here who could provide an insight as to how it's done in the real world? It would be interesting to compare the FM way with the real way. On the other hand the real way might make for a crap game mechanic. Real does not always equal fun. Oh well, judgement will come if/when someone can deliver the aforementioned.

[Ackter]

Well in real life the manager approaches the chairman and the chairman does all the work main.

That really would be crap.

[Seagulls Forever]

Originally posted by Ackter:

Well in real life the manager approaches the chairman and the chairman does all the work main.

That really would be crap.

Depends on the club surely? Some managers are more hands-on than others, otherwise George Graham wouldn't have been in trouble over bungs etc.

That said, if that is the case then it'd be crap. At which point one has to consider a better mechanic from a gaming perspective rather than a pure realism perspective, while still producing sensible results.

[Ackter]

These days any sort of direct hands-on interaction with managers will be rare - certain clubs will do it different, especially lower down the leagues, but it's changed a lot over the last ten years.

[Seagulls Forever]

Originally posted by Ackter:

These days any sort of direct hands-on interaction with managers will be rare - certain clubs will do it different, especially lower down the leagues, but it's changed a lot over the last ten years.

Hmm.. to be honest I'd not trust SI to produce something that changes as you go through the leagues, and anyway there'd be no real fun in that. Why oh why oh why oh why can't SI just write AI that knows how to haggle? That simple adjustment would make lots of us happy, even without the complete overhaul the whole thing needs.

[Ackter]

It's time there really was an overhaul - it's been too similar for too long.

[Seagulls Forever]

Originally posted by Ackter:

It's time there really was an overhaul - it's been too similar for too long.

True.. that said there are many problems that have been persistent across many versions of CM/FM and show no signs of being fixed. This is one of them and to be honest I don't have any great hope that it will be fixed in FM09, mainly because people will still buy it.

That said, I think SI are starting to lose the goodwill of the gaming press (eg PC Zone's review was markedly less positive than their usual gushing praise) and it seems that the tide is turning somewhat. While the competition is not world-class yet I'd classify the opponents as having a championship CA and a PA of 190 where FM might be an old timer playing for Arsenal who has had one too many injuries with CA dropping like a stone, but who doesn't realise that the kids are going to overtake him soon. Oh hell that was crap but you get the point.

I think it's simply become too big a game for SI to handle properly, and perhaps also they have failed to get the right people in with the right skills to some degree. If you want I'll go into that further but I won't just now as I don't wish to further derail the topic.

[crazyrap465]

i've just skimmed through this thread, so forgive me if i beat a dead horse, but AI owned players cost too much imo. the AI is also willing to throw ridiculous cash at other AI clubs, but is extremely stingy in bidding for my players.

[endtime]

Originally posted by crazyrap465:

the AI is also willing to throw ridiculous cash at other AI clubs, but is extremely stingy in bidding for my players.

I've found that the AI is willing to pay even 20-30 times the automatic valuation of a player, but only in installments. It's also hard to attract any attention to good players in small leagues, unless you offer them around, which is a bit silly.

[cabello]

Originally posted by aenariel:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turnip:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cabello:

Initially, I was irked by the lack of response by SI. It took close to two weeks before Ter acknowledged the existence of this thread, but by his own admittance, he is not the one responsible for this.

My next obvious question is, can we get the people "in the know" at SI to kindly response to this thread?

Or is non accountability a corporate virtue at SI, and we wait till FM09 to see if there has been any changes to this flawed transfer system?

Not the best post I've read all week.

I'm guessing a large part of the reason that SI haven't responded here (except Ter) is the reason stated in Miles' stickied post; the forums aren't a very nice place to visit most of the time. And with the responses I've seen when SI do post in topics, I'm not surprised.

And you assume that silence = non-accountability? That's just stupid. If SI were to announce any changes they're planning for FM09, that gives their competitors months of advance notice to change their own products. Not likely. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree. Stating "we've read your opinions and we're working on it" would suffice here. By not replying, it's like "we don't give a damn". And soon people will stop suggesting stuff because there's simply no feedback on what they suggest, be it good or bad.

I, for example, really do not feel the drive to suggest anything anymore, because I know it will fall in this forums' chaotic state ATM and no one will even read it, if most.

> And that's why I feel that a suggestion forum, heavily moderated, is a must if SI wants to keep getting proper feedback from their users/clients.

This thread is a very important one and I just hope it doesn't simply "die" because no one bothers to acknowledge it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely, aenariel.

Turnip, you do realise that 99.9% of the posts on this thread have been constructive and been made by posters who obviously value/ care about the game enough to come on and list issues which affect their enjoyment of the game. I have read Mile's stickied about the forums, but by no scale of imagination can you lump this thread with some of the other types of abusive threads here in the forums. And if my memory hasn't failed me, I do not believe that anyone here in this thread has subjected Ter to any verbal insults when he replied. So your assumption that SI haven't responded to this particular thread simply to avoid abuse is as you say, "stupid".

The fact that any commercial entity can fail to respond to a valid consumer's complaint after 1 month, 200+ posts and over 9,000 views in a forum which they've set up is nothing short of complete arrogance. The irony is that in most cases, the abusive threads are the ones that get fairly quick responses!

I doubt anyone seriously expects a patch for this transfer issue, given the complexity and timing involved, but a simple acknowledgment and/ or explanation from the powers that are responsible at SI would go a long way in reassuring customers that their views are still valuable and ensuring that the posts here remain constructive.

[svg]

Let me start by saying that I agree 100% with most of what have been stated in this thread. But I haven't given up on SI just yet. No company has so excellent a track record when it comes to communicating with their customers as SI. So, yes it is disappointing that only Ter has commented this thread, but I'll bet my car that this thread has been noticed. The real question is how much can be done about these problems.

These aren't really new issues. And I fear that the whole transfercode needs rewriting. And with so much of the game needing work, it will be difficult for them to fix all and at the same time get in new features to sell 09 on.

But I do hope they will get this right. Cause the game deserves it :-)

[T-Bag]

Even if the current system isn't overhauled for FM09 if they could just make it more intelligent it would be much better. The main problem with it is just the strange decisions and total lack of sense with the whole thing.

I'll tell you another story from my game. I was trying to sell a DMC, 27 years old, CA/PA of 160. Good player, playing well but he was just one midfielder too many for me. He became unhappy at not playing enough in my team so I decided to try and move him on.

His value was 7m so I transfer listed him for 4m and offered him out. To my surprise I actually got 3 bids, from Chelsea, Arsenal and Juventus. He turned them all down because he wanted more money. Considering he was unhappy this was possibly slightly unrealistic but nevermind... I offered him out some more but everyone thought he no longer represented value for money.

So eventually I accept a bid of 1.6m from At. Madrid and he signs for them. I then check his sale value using FM scout and it is a whopping 44 MILLION !!

So the highest I can sell this player for is 1.6m but if I want to buy him I have to pay 44m. I know you have to factor in the value to the team etc but even so, it is just way ott.

[CowRonaldo]

I don't think an overhaul is necessary as long as the transfer AI is improved.

Selling players should be more realistic and AI shouldn't ask for ridiculous prices like 44 mil etc.

The reputation thing has to be fixed too and make it so a player can change their expectations. If a player has played 3 games out of 50 at Man Utd. he'd probably not mind a move to Fulham for example.

[carlos1879]

good idea there is something in their stats page about how many they have played out of possible appearences, so it should correlate to that say they have played in 5% of games they could have so would be willing to move to a smaller club but make sure it doesn't count periods of injury.

[Ched]

Originally posted by carlos1879:

good idea there is something in their stats page about how many they have played out of possible appearences, so it should correlate to that say they have played in 5% of games they could have so would be willing to move to a smaller club but make sure it doesn't count periods of injury.

Spot on. I find it mental that players would rather play in chelsea/man utd/arsenal reserve teams for 2 years rather than move to a club like PSV, Lyon, Udinese or even the likes of a wigan/reading. Take a look at djemba djemba, if real life was like FM he'd still be at man utd reserves!

[Reider84]

I completley agree with the offloading of players, why do clubs not want to buy players off for you or even simply take them off your hands for free especially when they are better than they have in their current squad.

Anyone recognise this scenario?

Your a succesful premiership team, and you've outgrown a certain player, he's not bad and you still play him sometimes but could do with some extra funds so a decent amount for him would be a good bit of business for you.

Lets give an example of someone like James McFadden (Probably a bad example now as I've never personally tried to sell him but you'll get the idea.)

It's a few years in and he's not quite good enough for your Everton side anymore as a first teamer, still 27 or though so plenty of years in him.

1. - Transfer list him, make him not needed and put him in the reserves (Because you know there's no chance of selling him otherwise!!)

2. He's worth 5 million so you think if I can get 2.5 it's not bad business. First of all thought just in case you offer him for 4 million.

3. No interest, lets go with 2.5

4. Still no interest, okay well I guess 1.5 wouldn't be too bad.

5. Nobody wants him for 1.5??? Well I guess half a million will help with the transfer funds.

6. What?? Nobody wants James McFadded for half a million? Not even Championship clubs?? Okay this is just annoying me now so lets just get him off the wage bill. I'll offer him for free

7. No thanks!! So nobody wants him for free, by now your annoyed and just want to get rid of the player that ten minutes ago was a half decent backup member of your squad. Offer him mututal termination

8. Nope I won't be forced out of the club boss, okay fine release you on a free.

9. See you later boss, thanks for the £400,000 in advanced wages

10. So a player you were not even overally keen to sell you've just ended up giving away and spending money to do it!

11. He signs for Middlesborough on a free and is worth 4 million or so and is there best player straight into the first team.

12. Alrighty then!!

[Ched]

Originally posted by Reider84:

I completley agree with the offloading of players, why do clubs not want to buy players off for you or even simply take them off your hands for free especially when they are better than they have in their current squad.

Anyone recognise this scenario?

Your a succesful premiership team, and you've outgrown a certain player, he's not bad and you still play him sometimes but could do with some extra funds so a decent amount for him would be a good bit of business for you.

Lets give an example of someone like James McFadden (Probably a bad example now as I've never personally tried to sell him but you'll get the idea.)

It's a few years in and he's not quite good enough for your Everton side anymore as a first teamer, still 27 or though so plenty of years in him.

1. - Transfer list him, make him not needed and put him in the reserves (Because you know there's no chance of selling him otherwise!!)

2. He's worth 5 million so you think if I can get 2.5 it's not bad business. First of all thought just in case you offer him for 4 million.

3. No interest, lets go with 2.5

4. Still no interest, okay well I guess 1.5 wouldn't be too bad.

5. Nobody wants him for 1.5??? Well I guess half a million will help with the transfer funds.

6. What?? Nobody wants James McFadded for half a million? Not even Championship clubs?? Okay this is just annoying me now so lets just get him off the wage bill. I'll offer him for free

7. No thanks!! So nobody wants him for free, by now your annoyed and just want to get rid of the player that ten minutes ago was a half decent backup member of your squad. Offer him mututal termination

8. Nope I won't be forced out of the club boss, okay fine release you on a free.

9. See you later boss, thanks for the £400,000 in advanced wages

10. So a player you were not even overally keen to sell you've just ended up giving away and spending money to do it!

11. He signs for Middlesborough on a free and is worth 4 million or so and is there best player straight into the first team.

12. Alrighty then!!

This post pretty much somes up all that is wrong with the transfer system. Can anyone from SI claim this to be realistic???

It's disappointing that SI feel it is acceptable to include clear faults like this in the game, they can't possibly claim they were unaware of this, it's been like this for years and it becomes apparent the moment you start ANY game.

If the SI testers do want a perfect example of this - start a new game as chelsea, and try and sell makelele.....i'm not asking for you to make money from his sale, just try and get rid of him. And then feel free to post a reply here about how you can justify leaving the transfer engine in this state!

[DontCallItSoccer]

The scenario seems familiar, Reider84, but what sort of time frame are you stipulating? Sometimes it takes a while for clubs to become interested.

[Reider84]

Originally posted by DontCallItSoccer:

The scenario seems familiar, Reider84, but what sort of time frame are you stipulating? Sometimes it takes a while for clubs to become interested.

Well it depends, sometimes it is over a short period of time which I guess is understandable to some extent (Not really though if the player is of good quality.)

But often I try and get rid of a player for nothing at the start of the game with no success and by the time it gets to the next transfer window in January there is still no interest.

I find it even more frustrating when I can't offload a player for free but manage to get some interest on loan, he goes on loan for a season, performs very well for the team and then still there is no interest. That for me is unexplainable.

[allah]

i had the experience reider outlined with luka modric.

i signed him for west ham at the beggining of the game. i played him for a couple of seasons and he did fairly well, but i kind of "outgrew" him as i managed to get in a few better players.

therefore i tried to offload him.

he spent 3 years in my reserves transfer listed with asking price £0 and no one was willing to take him off my hands. (yes i did regularly offer him to clubs at £0 price no-one was interersted). I managed to loan him out to genoa for one of those years but despite playing well for them it did not encourage any offers. eventually his contract expired and he was snapped up by valencia.

can anyone tell me it is realistic that a decent versatile attacking midfielder who is of above the average premiereship standard, would not be snapped up if he was offered to clubs for free for several years?

i think part of the problem is the reputation system is not perfect. irl after a year of being in the reserves he would happily move to a team fighting for suvival in the prem. in fm i expect no club of that type would put in a bid because they know they will be rejected. it is the computer equivelent of:

"filter out unrelaistic targets"

this means that a players can be stuck in transfer limbo for several years.

I would also just like to add myself to those who have politely pointed out that it is dissapointing to see no contribution from anyone at si to what has been a polite and constructive critique.(ter excluded as he admits the topic is not his area of expertise).

[Ched]

Originally posted by allah:

i had the experience reider outlined with luka modric.

i signed him for west ham at the beggining of the game. i played him for a couple of seasons and he did fairly well, but i kind of "outgrew" him as i managed to get in a few better players.

therefore i tried to offload him.

he spent 3 years in my reserves transfer listed with asking price £0 and no one was willing to take him off my hands. (yes i did regularly offer him to clubs at £0 price no-one was interersted). I managed to loan him out to genoa for one of those years but despite playing well for them it did not encourage any offers. eventually his contract expired and he was snapped up by valencia.

can anyone tell me it is realistic that a decent versatile attacking midfielder who is of above the average premiereship standard, would not be snapped up if he was offered to clubs for free for several years?

i think part of the problem is the reputation system is not perfect. irl after a year of being in the reserves he would happily move to a team fighting for suvival in the prem. in fm i expect no club of that type would put in a bid because they know they will be rejected. it is the computer equivelent of:

"filter out unrelaistic targets"

this means that a players can be stuck in transfer limbo for several years.

I would also just like to add myself to those who have politely pointed out that it is dissapointing to see no contribution from anyone at si to what has been a polite and constructive critique.(ter excluded as he admits the topic is not his area of expertise).

I did wonder for some time if there was an AI equivalent of "filter out unrealistic targets" but the amount of times my players have turned down the AI makes me think that this is not the case.

[milamber]

T-Bag, I've found that too.

If you offer a player and they don't accept the teams' contracts, those same teams no loinger want him. You end up getting about 20-30% of the transfer value you should have gotten.