These Forums 'v2'

The purpose of these forums is for people to be able to talk about the game, a bit of speculation about what the future holds, coming up with ideas, and discussing them with likeminded people - people who play Football Manager.

What they aren't a place for is to sling around personal insults, not listening to other people or destructive criticism. Constructive criticism is fine, and always welcome, whether it be directly about the game and aimed at us, or whether it's debating someone elses idea.

Click here for the original thread.

Miles posted this a good while ago but I think it's about time we reiterated what these forums are about. Release time is usually pretty bad, but I actually thought FM10's release went pretty well in terms of GD. I also thought we'd sorted out the worst problems of this forum specifically, it's been a pretty decent place to post until the last couple of months.

Unfortunately, it seems to have turned into a place where people think it's acceptable to throw around insults and post with the sole reason of antagonizing others. Just because someone criticizes the game, it doesn't mean they are simply trolling. Likewise, just because someone defends the game doesn't mean they deserve abuse (ie 'fanboy').

Obviously, we understand that some discussions can become heated but if you can't argue your point in a mature manner, then you shouldn't be posting. So basically, just think before posting - if you plan to troll or throw around abuse, please refrain from hitting 'reply'.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to link you to the forum rules. Make sure you abide by them, they are in place for a reason. Anyone ignoring them, will be dealt with by the mod you annoy first

EDIT: I'd also like to point out that commenting on other users posting style is not welcome. If you don't like the way someone else posts, either report it or ignore it. There is no need to comment on it, all that does is causes even more arguments and insults.

I'll leave this thread open but it will be closed and messages deleted if it turns into a slanging match or goes off-topic etc.

Thanks for your time

heated discussions? would be nice to have any sort of reply to my posts. I think people only like the fanboy/trolling/flamming/antagonistic posts.

Did i win the first response to this topic post?

i think that all this forum needs is a mod that deletes more threads. sick of seeing threads about superkeepers/one on ones.

if you're going to make a 10.2 thread and ask that it all goes in there, then enforce this rule!

I won!!!

Do I need to reinstall for this version to kick in?

i think that all this forum needs is a mod that deletes more threads

Seconded.

Close the inane rubbish and that'll keep more interesting informative on the first page for longer

And maybe remove some of the stickies so new ones are more noticable. Who really cares about a personalised sleeve order offer that ended in the last decade anyway?

Seriously though, the stickies are quite annoying.

Ha, for some reason when I seen this title I thought it was about OTF2

Aww I join the forum and then a mod says its going down the pan I hope its just a coincedence...

In seriousness, the best forum I post on (well the main one) is mostly friendly and cheery, but with one subforum where people can be a bit of a knob/a bit weird. Maybe without a place for people to be tits, it creeps over to the good bits.

i think that all this forum needs is a mod that deletes more threads. sick of seeing threads about superkeepers/one on ones.

if you're going to make a 10.2 thread and ask that it all goes in there, then enforce this rule!

Seconded.

Close the inane rubbish and that'll keep more interesting informative on the first page for longer

Repeated threads aren't a massive problem IMO. The reason the informative stuff get's lost is because people would prefer to make snide/abusive posts in the 'rubbish' ones than post in the good ones. If people actually posted in the 'superkeeper' threads giving help/accepting that help - then they would be more informative and interesting, no?

And maybe remove some of the stickies so new ones are more noticable. Who really cares about a personalised sleeve order offer that ended in the last decade anyway?

Seriously though, the stickies are quite annoying.

You make a good point, actually. The Play one does seem a bit useless now

Aww I join the forum and then a mod says its going down the pan I hope its just a coincedence...

I don't think GD is bad, it has been far worse in the past but the reason for bringing this up is to stop it from getting worse and becoming a more widespread problem. For the most part, it is still a helpful and friendly place but we have some posters who would rather argue and abuse others.

You are one of the worst though!

i think that all this forum needs is a mod that deletes more threads. sick of seeing threads about superkeepers/one on ones.

if you're going to make a 10.2 thread and ask that it all goes in there, then enforce this rule!

I don't want to insult any of the current mods, but I agree with this.

It'd be a lot cleaner, and there'd be no more abuse sprouting from the frustration of having to endure yet another thread about whatever.

i think that all this forum needs is a mod that deletes more threads. sick of seeing threads about superkeepers/one on ones.

if you're going to make a 10.2 thread and ask that it all goes in there, then enforce this rule!

Agreed. Far to many threads with ever more ingenious thread titles that all lead to the same thing. Modding needs to sharpen up* in an effort to prevent people being hacked off with the same old thinly veiled complaints being restarted under a different guise every time a thread doesn't go someones way.

I don't want to insult any of the current mods, but I agree with this.

It'd be a lot cleaner, and there'd be no more abuse sprouting from the frustration of having to endure yet another thread about whatever.

Equally, these persistent <Superkeeper/AI cheat/Martians in the ME> threads should frankly be in the bugs forum. surely this is General Discussion as opposed to place I complain about a percieved bug?

*No offence Neji

Equally, these persistent <Superkeeper/AI cheat/Martians in the ME> threads should frankly be in the bugs forum. surely this is General Discussion as opposed to place I complain about a percieved bug?

i disagree if they were all posted in the bugs forum it would make REAL bugs much more difficult to find as the devs will have to sift through all the rubbish first?

i disagree if they were all posted in the bugs forum it would make REAL bugs much more difficult to find as the devs will have to sift through all the rubbish first?

imo leave them in this forum, close such threads asap with no warning or comment, hopefully causing the message to sink in pretty fast and leaving those posters with the choice of re-posting constructivly, or risking an infraction or ban by posting again in their original manner.

Maybe a ban on threads that start with the horribly cliched "I've been playing the game since CM on the Amiga, but..".

"The reason the informative stuff get's lost is because people would prefer to make snide/abusive posts in the 'rubbish' ones than post in the good ones."

The main problem as far as I’m concerned is not the arguing over points, but rather snide, sneering one-liners that contribute nothing but an insult to a poster.

Smart Alec comments with no other substance are bound to prompt a response. What do you expect the insulted person to do?

Restrict the boards to Budhist monastries, perhaps?

I don't think closing and deleting threads more will improve anything. Normally, when an angry user has a thread closed, they'll create another, and then another. They get banned, create an alias, and it starts again. All that does is make a mess, cause more friction and lead to more antagonism.

I think it would do more good if moderation had a grey area. The options aren't "do nothing" and "close the thread". They aren't even "do nothing", "close the thread", or "close the thread and ban the user".

If referees decided that after every foul, they'd either caution or send off the player, football matches wouldn't be nearly as fun to play in, or watch. A lot less fouls would be given, but at the same time, a lot more players would leave the pitch. There's something between "do nothing" and "give a yellow/close the thread". It's "give a talking to".

There are some moderators who jump in, and effectively show a red card instantly. That doesn't work. You've got rid of the problem, but wouldn't it be better to get the user contributing constructively? If it turns out to be a lost cause, you close the thread, you hand out formal warnings, you hand out infractions, they get banned. Not all at once, of course, but on a sliding scale.

There are time it is best and necessary to close threads, or hand out infractions straight away, but those are rare, like when swearing is involved, or the thread isn't about FM ("Neji is a terrible moderator who gave me an infraction! CAMTGRON! Campaign to get rid of Neji!"). Those are rarities, and a thread should only require drastic action when the chance of turning it into constructive criticism is low.

The main problem as far as I’m concerned is not the arguing over points, but rather snide, sneering one-liners that contribute nothing but an insult to a poster.

Smart Alec comments with no other substance are bound to prompt a response. What do you expect the insulted person to do?

Restrict the boards to Budhist monastries, perhaps?

You mean like somebody who posted this because somebody disagreed with them?:

"It bothers me not what pompous statements dweebs like you might come out in a desperate attempt to pretend you know what you're talking about. The same goes for djwank6."

Infraction worthy there surely, blatent insults to 2 posters in the same post.

Consistency from the mods is whats needed, there have been posts from a few people which one particular mod seems to do nothing about. Which is a shame because this one poster is complained about every year

If you see a post that you feel deserves an infraction, instead of just complaining about it, why not report it?

It's unrealistic to expect the moderators to see every infraction-worthy comment on the boards.

If you see a post that you feel deserves an infraction, instead of just complaining about it, why not report it?

It's unrealistic to expect the moderators to see every infraction-worthy comment on the boards.

Because not every mod will see a possible-infraction worthy comment the same, and I wouldnt want to get a reputation as someone who reports every post.

As for the stickies, I'd remove:

Digital Download Purchase Options- active users will have made their mind up about getting the game, new users will have already got it!

Patch for FM09- there are no 8.0.2 or 7.0.2 links, I think keeping the 09 thread there almost a year after 9.0.3's release is unnecessary

Podcast- been and gone now, iirc?

Press Reviews- see Digital download.

Do we need "Useful links" and "FAQs"? Surely the two could be combined? I'd add links to the old stickies, so if anybody did want to find them, they could.

I'd removed the MBE thread after O+P actually receive them.

I'd remove all stickies since there's already a big giant notice at the top of the screen.

Yes inforce the rules but ensure that ALL POSTS get a sensible reply.especially requests for help.

I don't think closing and deleting threads more will improve anything. Normally, when an angry user has a thread closed, they'll create another, and then another. They get banned, create an alias, and it starts again. All that does is make a mess, cause more friction and lead to more antagonism.

If someone is simply going to keep creating the same pointless threads over and over then it would appear unlikely that a) they're going to change or b) saying anything to them to attempt to get a meaningful, constructive or well-mannered response is likely to be a waste of time. The friction arises largely not from the fact that the topics are closed or that the threads exist, but that the posters in question wholeheartedly refuse to be rational or open-minded.

It's all very well being angry, but unless you can channel it appropriately then surely keep it to yourself? A number of users, me included, can be frustrated or angered by the game or indeed the forums, and can channel that in to meaningful debate. If some can't do that - too bad. It's perhaps a heavy handed tactic to ban people, but anything less doesn't seem to be working. I have, although obviously can't speak for others, had much to say on a number of points (superkeepers etc), but the fact that the majority of what I say will be disregarded or ignored, and not to mention that there are simply too many threads and those where I'm risking never seeing my post again, means that frankly I can't be bothered as I have no motivation or desire to be shot down for having an opinion.

I think it would do more good if moderation had a grey area. The options aren't "do nothing" and "close the thread". They aren't even "do nothing", "close the thread", or "close the thread and ban the user".

I think short-term bans could work. Let people post, and perhaps the first to go against a mods warning in a thread gets a days or a weeks ban. Anything less than closing such threads early on largely resorts to it simply being closed later on, as anyone with anything constructive to add will grow tired of the first rejection of the potential for debate and only those looking to actively rant or cause trouble remain. These won't get reported as frankly people see the title of the thread and just cba opening it, knowing the likely content.

If referees decided that after every foul, they'd either caution or send off the player, football matches wouldn't be nearly as fun to play in, or watch. A lot less fouls would be given, but at the same time, a lot more players would leave the pitch. There's something between "do nothing" and "give a yellow/close the thread". It's "give a talking to".

Did you see that Irish ref the other day? He gave 6 red cards and was criticised for ridiculous refereeing. Were all 6 red card offences? Yes. Rules are there for a reason, and crucial to their implementation is conviction and consistancy.

There are some moderators who jump in, and effectively show a red card instantly. That doesn't work. You've got rid of the problem, but wouldn't it be better to get the user contributing constructively? If it turns out to be a lost cause, you close the thread, you hand out formal warnings, you hand out infractions, they get banned. Not all at once, of course, but on a sliding scale.

I have to say I've been impressed by the moderation on this forum in particular in the last few months. It's clear to me that a number of the problem posters simply aren't going to listen to warnings or reason, and are simply looking to cause trouble and only hear what they want to, resorting to insults, fabrication and bullshi*ting amongst other unadmirable qualities to try and add gravitas to a substanceless argument. There've been more than enough similar threads recently from which to make the assumption that anyone starting yet another similar thread has little regard for the rules of the forum or has cared to listen to prior warnings or previous advice and feedback.

Obviously they'll be some genuine cases in which people haven't seen the previous posts, but that's little excuse for posting another rant. Closing such a thread is not neccessarily a punishment to the OP, but rather an assumption that only those posters looking to be confrontational antagonists will be inclined to post, with others simply not caring any longer to needlessly repeat themselves.

There are time it is best and necessary to close threads, or hand out infractions straight away, but those are rare, like when swearing is involved, or the thread isn't about FM ("Neji is a terrible moderator who gave me an infraction! CAMTGRON! Campaign to get rid of Neji!"). Those are rarities, and a thread should only require drastic action when the chance of turning it into constructive criticism is low.

The problem is that it increasingly seems that threads are turning into unconstructive troll-fests, and so a bit of heavy-handed law enforcement may be needed, if only in the short-term, just to remind people how to behave. Handing out infractions should be for repeated trolling or going against the moderators warnings, amongst other things, and as I've said closing threads is not neccessarily action against the OP.

Because not every mod will see a possible-infraction worthy comment the same, and I wouldnt want to get a reputation as someone who reports every post.

That's why they need reporting, it means that attention is drawn to all mods, not just the odd one who happens to see it at the time.

Where possible we do try to discuss posts/users before taking action so reporting them is the best way to help us do this.

People who report lots of genuine issues are seen as helpful, not annoying.

Repeated threads aren't a massive problem IMO. The reason the informative stuff get's lost is because people would prefer to make snide/abusive posts in the 'rubbish' ones than post in the good ones. If people actually posted in the 'superkeeper' threads giving help/accepting that help - then they would be more informative and interesting, no?

Basically what i said in my first post. Couldn't agree more. To many trolls/flamers/antagonists around who are quick to jump on somebody for saying something they don't like, but don't want to add anything constructive to any constructive posts. The same can be said for some mods as well, although they are generally helpful, there very quick to respond to certain types of posts. Basically, the not so constructive ones.

Something to think about.

if someone is simply going to keep creating the same pointless threads over and over then it would appear unlikely that a) they're going to change or b) saying anything to them to attempt to get a meaningful, constructive or well-mannered response is likely to be a waste of time. The friction arises largely not from the fact that the topics are closed or that the threads exist, but that the posters in question wholeheartedly refuse to be rational or open-minded.

agreed, repeat offenders who don't seem to be trying to improve should have their threads closed.

I'm not certain about your second argument, maybe we've both misunderstood each other. I think users who post one rant are quickly forgotten; those who post several have reputations for stupidity that precede them. I think they're the most frustrating users, the ones who keep hammering home their irrational points (pun not intented!) and do so across several threads.

Such users are more likely to create yet another thread if their previous one is closed. If, however, somebody outlines to them that their behaviour is unacceptable and how it will be dealt with if they continue, then i think they're more likely to stop. That doesn't apply to repeat offenders, of course. Those should be reminded of the "treatment" process (i thought "treatment" was more fitting than "punishment") and have the next stage applied to them, as well as their thread locked.

it's all very well being angry, but unless you can channel it appropriately then surely keep it to yourself? A number of users, me included, can be frustrated or angered by the game or indeed the forums, and can channel that in to meaningful debate. If some can't do that - too bad. It's perhaps a heavy handed tactic to ban people, but anything less doesn't seem to be working. I have, although obviously can't speak for others, had much to say on a number of points (superkeepers etc), but the fact that the majority of what i say will be disregarded or ignored, and not to mention that there are simply too many threads and those where i'm risking never seeing my post again, means that frankly i can't be bothered as i have no motivation or desire to be shot down for having an opinion.

which is why something needs to change. You ban a user, there are five waiting to replace him. You turn a user around, those five will find it harder. Bans will need to be handed out, but outlining that such behaviour is unacceptable is a better first step.

i think short-term bans could work. Let people post, and perhaps the first to go against a mods warning in a thread gets a days or a weeks ban. Anything less than closing such threads early on largely resorts to it simply being closed later on, as anyone with anything constructive to add will grow tired of the first rejection of the potential for debate and only those looking to actively rant or cause trouble remain. These won't get reported as frankly people see the title of the thread and just cba opening it, knowing the likely content.

i agree, once a moderator's warning has been broken, medium-sized infractions (30-60 points) should be handed out to the offender, and the thread should be closed.

did you see that irish ref the other day? He gave 6 red cards and was criticised for ridiculous refereeing. Were all 6 red card offences? Yes. Rules are there for a reason, and crucial to their implementation is conviction and consistancy.

of course banning offences should be treated as such, but rather than start a "no tolerance" policy, i'm in favour of directing new users to the rules threads (both individual forum rules and the house rules).

i have to say i've been impressed by the moderation on this forum in particular in the last few months. It's clear to me that a number of the problem posters simply aren't going to listen to warnings or reason, and are simply looking to cause trouble and only hear what they want to, resorting to insults, fabrication and bullshi*ting amongst other unadmirable qualities to try and add gravitas to a substanceless argument. There've been more than enough similar threads recently from which to make the assumption that anyone starting yet another similar thread has little regard for the rules of the forum or has cared to listen to prior warnings or previous advice and feedback.

i agree that experienced users who post like that should be given bans, say 30 infractions points a time?

obviously they'll be some genuine cases in which people haven't seen the previous posts, but that's little excuse for posting another rant. Closing such a thread is not neccessarily a punishment to the op, but rather an assumption that only those posters looking to be confrontational antagonists will be inclined to post, with others simply not caring any longer to needlessly repeat themselves.

let's say a moderator is the first into a rant thread. In fact, it doesn't have to be a moderator. We could have a statement in the rules thread on how rants will be dealt with, and say that posts after that message had been posted in a thread deemed destructive will be dealt with harshly. There could be a link to an example of constructive criticism, and something could outline why that was constructive rather than destructive. A user who sees a rant post or thread copies and pastes that message and posts it in a thread. If a user then posts destructively, the posts in question are to be reported and the next moderator online can deal with them and close the thread. The same goes for those who reply in a provocative manner, saying "there are no superkeepers!!!" or similar.

the problem is that it increasingly seems that threads are turning into unconstructive troll-fests, and so a bit of heavy-handed law enforcement may be needed, if only in the short-term, just to remind people how to behave. Handing out infractions should be for repeated trolling or going against the moderators warnings, amongst other things, and as i've said closing threads is not neccessarily action against the op.

deal with those who break the rules after being clearly informed of them heavy-handedly. Repeat offenders can be considered informed and dealt in such a manner with no c&p.

1010101010101

I don't think these forums do themselves any favours. If you look at some other FM forums there is significantly less activity but significantly better organised forums of particular areas of interest leading to much better discussion of particular aspects of the game and much less repetition.

For FM09 there were threads explaining the mechanics of CA development in players, threads explaining how to organise you club and manage your players for maximum development of youngsters, and threads explaining how to understand and employ teamtalks and man management according to personality, consistency, important matches and match odds. You can find these threads if you have already read them, remember their names and they are a part of the unofficial tactics bible, otherwise they are simply gone for all intents and purposes for the majority of visitors to this site.

It is unfortunate that new visitors to this site or individuals that do not regularly participate in Tactics and Training Tips are going to head to that particular forum and see very little content, despite the fact that forum contains detailed information on every aspect of the game. People that have written detailed guides or detailed explanations of different aspects of the game are not going to rewrite the same information every time the same question is raised, so these individuals that are asking questions will not get the sort of information that exists and is common knowledge to regular participants until someone relatively new figures out that same information and posts a replica guide some time in the future.

I wont get involved in the discussion on the state of GD, but I will say that if the Tactics and Training Tips had multiple sub forums for Training, Man Management, Downloadable Tactics, Tactical Discussion, Club Management etc. then the quality of information being discussed and quantity of knowledge being shared would improve dramatically.

May I just say that I'm very disappointed about the fact that the Mac patch was on time this year.

Last year's "The Official Waiting For The Mac Patch Thread" was so incredibly much fun! It should be published!

Unfortunately this year's Mac Patch was on time so there was no reason to start another Waiting For The Mac Patch Thread :S

on-topic: To anyone that thinks this forum has poor quality, read the thread I'm talking about. You'll get a good dose of humor, I promise.

Someone even came out of the closet

"Do Macs Need Activating?" was even better

Missed that thread I'm afraid

I'm not certain about your second argument, maybe we've both misunderstood each other. I think users who post one rant are quickly forgotten; those who post several have reputations for stupidity that precede them. I think they're the most frustrating users, the ones who keep hammering home their irrational points (pun not intented!) and do so across several threads.

Such users are more likely to create yet another thread if their previous one is closed. If, however, somebody outlines to them that their behaviour is unacceptable and how it will be dealt with if they continue, then i think they're more likely to stop. That doesn't apply to repeat offenders, of course. Those should be reminded of the "treatment" process (i thought "treatment" was more fitting than "punishment") and have the next stage applied to them, as well as their thread locked.

I think such posters are simply too lost in their own delusion and narrow minded world to take much notice of warnings. Most closed threads have warnings and reasons why they're being closed, but these don't seem to sink in. Why are they allowed to start several threads when we know what to expect from them? Particularly if concentrated in a short time period, a 'cooling down' ban, for their own good, might be a neat idea.

I think also that such threads often exist only as people know there are those who will reply, be it those others who start similar threads and roam around trolling other threads about "fanboys" and the like closing their threads. I don't believe there's much need for reminders tbh, there's no need to be treated like children on here, but if some have to be then they should take the treatment as a whole, if that makes sense. Maybe we need a GD naughty step

which is why something needs to change. You ban a user, there are five waiting to replace him. You turn a user around, those five will find it harder. Bans will need to be handed out, but outlining that such behaviour is unacceptable is a better first step.

I think there are a number of aliases that pass undetected for a while and a number of those who only respond for attention. I agree there needs to be a clear indication of what is and isn't acceptable on the forums and why, but these are already widely known and repeated and often clearly ignored leaving little option but to ban such users. As I've said previously, there's no room for behaving or being treated like children on here, but if there must be it should be no nonsense or the point of outlining the rules is lost.

of course banning offences should be treated as such, but rather than start a "no tolerance" policy, i'm in favour of directing new users to the rules threads (both individual forum rules and the house rules).

Doesn't that already happen?

let's say a moderator is the first into a rant thread. In fact, it doesn't have to be a moderator. We could have a statement in the rules thread on how rants will be dealt with, and say that posts after that message had been posted in a thread deemed destructive will be dealt with harshly. There could be a link to an example of constructive criticism, and something could outline why that was constructive rather than destructive. A user who sees a rant post or thread copies and pastes that message and posts it in a thread. If a user then posts destructively, the posts in question are to be reported and the next moderator online can deal with them and close the thread. The same goes for those who reply in a provocative manner, saying "there are no superkeepers!!!" or similar.

Again though, no room for treating people like children, idiots or general special cases. If a poster fails to see what's constructive and what isn't, or blatantly refuses to acknowledge opposing views or engage in debate then it'd be a waste of time dealing with them. I've tried your suggestion, or near enough, previously, ie. linking to the rules and trying to start debate and explaining reason, rationale and what makes a constructive post, but after you've been ignored and/or insulted once or twice you just can't be bothered with such posters anymore. I have a bit of a short temper, but even so the moderators are only human too.

It'd be a lot cleaner, and there'd be no more abuse sprouting from the frustration of having to endure yet another thread about whatever.

I'm probably out here, but I think you're missing the point. The way you posted this reply, it sounds as though you think it's ok to post snide remarks just because a thread is repeated. That's the sort of attitude that we want to avoid. If you don't like a thread, then don't post in it, unless you can do so in a mature manner. A repeated thread does not give anyone the right to insult other forum members. Also this way, you get the bonus of that thread falling off the first page faster.

imo leave them in this forum, close such threads asap with no warning or comment, hopefully causing the message to sink in pretty fast and leaving those posters with the choice of re-posting constructivly, or risking an infraction or ban by posting again in their original manner.

Closing threads without leaving the reason is one of my pet peeves. I've seen threads closed with no reason, and sometimes it's hard for users to see why. All that does is annoy the OP.

Closing threads without leaving the reason is one of my pet peeves. I've seen threads closed with no reason, and sometimes it's hard for users to see why. All that does is annoy the OP.

I meant in the case of those repeat offenders if banning seems too harsh, apologies for vagueness. I'm all for telling those posters why the thread is being closed, but if it results in repetition that maybe suggests a different route needs to be taken.

I think repeated threads are rare (from the same user) so that's not a big issue

I'd also like to point out that commenting on other users posting style is not welcome. If you don't like the way someone else posts, either report it or ignore it. There is no need to comment on it, all that does is causes even more arguments and insults.

I've added the above to my opening post, for those that may miss it.

Where do you consider the line between suggesting a change of approach/post content (ie. suggesting constructiveness or opening up to debate), commenting on their manner/tone (eg. suggesting they'll be better advised posting in a more rational manner), and commenting plainly that ranting will get them nowhere or that they've broken a rule, and perhaps linking them to a similar thread and/or the rules?

Do you thus advise just reporting or ignoring rather than any of the above, or rather (as I suspect) a mix based on appropriateness and individual circumstance. I can only assume you're refering to content and any ill-advised approaches (ie. posting in an inflamatory or antagonising manner) rather than 'style' per se.

Its okay as long as you do it in a constructive manner. It crosses the line when you post it in an inflammatory manner. I'll clean up my post later to make it a bit clearer.

If you don't like a thread, then don't post in it, unless you can do so in a mature manner.

This is what the name of this thread should be.

It seems as if people have this idea that when they see a thread, and read it, they must make a post/reply, without even thinking about it. They feel that they have to write something as if it's mandatory to reply once you've read a thread. Then people complain about the quality of the thread deteriorating after a couple of replies. I wonder why?....

If one has nothing to say that is actually beneficial to the thread, then do not post, simple as that. Tongue-in-cheek-comments, smart-alec remarks, petty insults and what have you, are not needed nor welcome, at all. I've seen a number of threads that have started off well, where the OP is asking a question or trying to start a mature discussion, and after 2-3 replies, you see those individuals who must comment just to get their user-names out there, or think it's funny making meaningless comments.

My biggest annoyance however, on any forum, is when individuals ramp up on their ego-mojo and start throwing accusations, name-callings, childish insults because they cannot carry a conversation or even accept that what one has to say, may be "different" to what they said. These are the type of posts that need to be kept under control the most in my opinion as there are tons of them.

This is a forum, where opinions & ideas are meant to be shared and be the basis of a discussion.

Bottom line, as it was said many times before; don't post if you cannot handle yourself. Don't provoke people with petty remarks or indirect insults. Think of it as a group discussion, not a free-for-all post-spamming contest just so you can have a higher rank or a greater number of posts under your location.

That's why they need reporting, it means that attention is drawn to all mods, not just the odd one who happens to see it at the time.

Where possible we do try to discuss posts/users before taking action so reporting them is the best way to help us do this.

People who report lots of genuine issues are seen as helpful, not annoying.

I'll try and take this into consideration in future.

I have reported a few posts in the past for blatent abuse, but this has sometimes led to a closure of a pretty good thread, especially last year.

I'd like the mod's view on people who just aren't prepared to listen to what someone has to say (there was a case of this earlier today where someone has refused to read a post by crouchy, just because he posted it) and just ploughs on regardless. Not really infraction worthy, but it is rude and inconsiderate to people who take the time to reply.

Another thing that annoys me, are people who talk down to others because they perceive themselves to be better than the person they are replying to. Not everybody is as capable of expressing themselves clearly, or lack the knowledge of big words (yes I'd count myself in that bracket), but that doesnt mean they should be ignored or talked to condisendingly (sp?).

Finally.

I was getting put off by the number of people being rude behind the safety of their pc.

Because not every mod will see a possible-infraction worthy comment the same, and I wouldnt want to get a reputation as someone who reports every post.

Maybe so but if it's deemed infraction-worthy by any of the moderators who view it, then action will be taken. Besides, there is no need to report every post - just ones that that are infraction-worthy.

and it seems we have another flame war starting up in GD

fair enoguh the question is valid but the way he went about posting it will only result in a flame war starting

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=181120

and it seems we have another flame war starting up in GD

fair enoguh the question is valid but the way he went about posting it will only result in a flame war starting

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=181120

And yet again, the amount of reply's that the flame war thread has got is ridiculous. Lots of reply's from mods as well. I seem to notice alot of mods popping up on these flaming threads and arguing with people and legitimate posts are being moved along and ignored. Just close the flaming thread and help some people out who actually deserve some help.

Totally agree, some people simply need to think more about what they're posting.

i disagree if they were all posted in the bugs forum it would make REAL bugs much more difficult to find as the devs will have to sift through all the rubbish first?

At present its making the general discussions hard to find tho, at least it'd move them to somewhere relevant.

and it seems we have another flame war starting up in GD

fair enoguh the question is valid but the way he went about posting it will only result in a flame war starting

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=181120

Sounds like you wanted one to happen. From what I've seen, it hasn't.

I don't think closing and deleting threads more will improve anything. Normally, when an angry user has a thread closed, they'll create another, and then another. They get banned, create an alias, and it starts again. All that does is make a mess, cause more friction and lead to more antagonism.

I think it would do more good if moderation had a grey area. The options aren't "do nothing" and "close the thread". They aren't even "do nothing", "close the thread", or "close the thread and ban the user".

If referees decided that after every foul, they'd either caution or send off the player, football matches wouldn't be nearly as fun to play in, or watch. A lot less fouls would be given, but at the same time, a lot more players would leave the pitch. There's something between "do nothing" and "give a yellow/close the thread". It's "give a talking to".

There are some moderators who jump in, and effectively show a red card instantly. That doesn't work. You've got rid of the problem, but wouldn't it be better to get the user contributing constructively? If it turns out to be a lost cause, you close the thread, you hand out formal warnings, you hand out infractions, they get banned. Not all at once, of course, but on a sliding scale.

There are time it is best and necessary to close threads, or hand out infractions straight away, but those are rare, like when swearing is involved, or the thread isn't about FM ("Neji is a terrible moderator who gave me an infraction! CAMTGRON! Campaign to get rid of Neji!"). Those are rarities, and a thread should only require drastic action when the chance of turning it into constructive criticism is low.

I agree with this.

And just to add, I do sometimes feel like some mods on here jump the gun abit and close down threads uneccessarily. Okay if there is no point to it, swearing, duplicate threads, etc.

But sometimes it is because the debate gets a little heated! Come on, most people here are adults. The worst is though, when a mod THINKS the conversation may go downhill/agressive! I mean, who are they to try and read everyone's minds?!

Now this isn't an attack on any moderator, I have had no problem with any mod, and I hope to keep it that way. I have NEVER started a thread, so the problem is not mine getting closed down. Nor can I remember being directly involved in an argument that got out of hand and had the thread shut down. So it is not any kind of personal injustice I have here. I do not feel 'victimised' by a mod or any other rubbish like that.

I just feel the mods could be abit more lenient with things and leave threads open longer. It really does feel like a totalitarian state here sometimes.

Sometimes I see threads that aren't too bad either - but criticise SI/FM - being closed. Now believe me, I love FM10, all the series infact. As I said, I have never created my own thread and have no major grievances with FM10, it is the only game I play. BUT I don't like to think I am posting on a forum that can effectively seem like it is moderated by dictators 'You spoke out against SI. We don't like it. Thread closed'.

And what makes it more annoying is enjoying reading a thread, but being denied making a response because a mod has closed it down. Or worse still, being involved in a lively debate, only for the thread to be closed before the conversation has been finished. That's just social rudeness!

Even if there is swearing/personal insults, surely it can just be edited out and the perpetrators banned, rather than the rest of us who can post without swearing/insulting people being punished by having the thread closed?

It's not fair for the majority if we allow the minority to spoil it for us, so I just think moderators should think more before closing threads as it ruins it for the rest of us. If some idiots have to come on and say abusive things, just ban them.

Rant over! Sorry if any of it has come over in an aggressive way, it was not meant to. If you could see me now it is not !

I am not trying to have a go at anyone, just highlighting my frustrations in the hope the mods could use some friendly advice

Clear set of forum rules needs to be written and enforced with a strong arm.

- Here is a rule.

- Here's what happens if you break the rule.

If the current discipline levels aren't working for the population, make them stricter. People will soon fall in line, and if not, they won't be around to not fall in line again.

Also, I have NEVER reported a post. Not because I see anything wrong with doing it (especially if swearing is involved when there will be children using these forums), just that nothing anyone could say on an internet forum could wind me up/insult me enough to get bothered about. Sticks and stones and all that.

I suppose to be honest aswell, it would make me feel a little like the annoying child at school always running to tell tales to the teacher.

Sounds like you wanted one to happen. From what I've seen, it hasn't.

im massivly suprised there isnt one as its the way GD has been going lately, flame wars are pointless and i dont want one to happen,

Clear set of forum rules needs to be written and enforced with a strong arm.

- Here is a rule.

- Here's what happens if you break the rule.

If the current discipline levels aren't working for the population, make them stricter. People will soon fall in line, and if not, they won't be around to not fall in line again.

I have to agree with CaptainPlanet here. The rules etc do need to be enforced strictly. Not knowing the rules can't be taken as an excuse as there's a sticky with the rules at the top of the page.