Death by crosses with a back 3

Seems impossible to play a back 3 this year. Cross, goal, cross goal, lose, morale drops, cross, goal...

SK(s)

DC

DC

DC

CW(s)

DM(s)

DM(s)

CW(s)

B2B

CF(s)

DLF(a)

Fluid -

Tried Counter, useless. (Doesn't counter, just sitting ducks in the 18 yard box and concedes midfield)

Tried Control, useless. (Doesn't control. Opposition continually dominating possession. Bit more threatening going forward, but still losing games through crosses. Just now it's 3-2/4-2, instead of 4-1/3-0.

show oppositon wingers/ fullbacks on weaker foot and try and close them down quicker.

I honestly sympathise as I believe something's seriously messed up with crosses/wingplay, I've submitted a few examples/opinions on the bugs forum, and it seems to manifest under some tactical settings more than others. I've witnessed it in quite a few of the tactics I tried...

But it's not impossible to minimize the problem.

First, please notice a 3-5-2 will always be most vulnerable down the wings, it's its primary weakness. If the opposition fields a winger and tells their fullback to go upfield, they have a 2 vs 1 against yourself in that area of the pitch. You'll always have to work out a way to minimize the damage that combo can make in your team.

Then, a counter mentality is quite narrow by default. So unless you set a team instruction to increase width, you're conceding a ton of space down the wings. An obvious possible fix is to tell the team to play wider. My current tactic (though the jury's still out on how this will work out in the long run...) is on counter with play MUCH wider. In theory the drawback is I'd be opening a huge hole down the middle for the opposition to pass their way into the area, but that isn't happening and instead I cover the flanks a little better.

Also I don't quite understand your formation. Doesn't mean it's not viable but do you really need 2 DMs in front of your 3 CBs? Again you're completely overcrowding the center but leaving tons of space down the wings. I've had some success mitigating a lack of cover on the wings by fielding 3 flat CMs instead - the fact there's 3 of them pushes the outer CMs further into the wings, than when there's just 2.

Another potential issue is the complete wing-backs. I haven't tried them but I assume this is a very very aggressive role in the current ME, because the regular wingback on support already bombs up the field like crazy! And complete wing-backs also have "roam from position" which makes them go away from the wings. Also, I assume you have them on the WBL/WBR positions? That'll make them even more aggressive. It's very annoying but in the current match engine what you see on a tactic is the defensive formation, and this means that players on the WBL/WBR positions defend AHEAD of the centre-backs instead of trying to keep in line. Maybe try dropping them to DL/DR.

Finally, you haven't posted any team instructions, player instructions, I'm going to assume you've left it all on default. If you haven't, there's a huge chance whatever you're doing is completely changing the way you're playing. For example, I've recently discovered that, somewhat counter-intuitively, "close down much more" wasn't helping my team close down the wings better, but instead making my players run like crazy chasing the man with the ball, and when the ball was on the centre of the pitch, they were leaving an even bigger space for the opposition fullbacks to run into. So considerably dropping down our closing down settings weirdly helped with crosses.

Good luck, it's definitely a very annoying/frustrating thing to deal with at the moment but there are logical things that can be done to make it bearable.

Tommo, what Noikee has posted: you can use WBs in the FB strata. This will have them track back a bit further to give you more coverage, but will not negatively affect they way they get forward, it just takes them a bit longer to do so. It is a valid solution in part, and I wanted to clarify that it does work. Complete wingbacks are very attacking, so just a standard wingback role might suit a bit better. Finally, with a three man midfield, you can make sure you two outside CMs are engaging the fullbacks as they get forward. I use two BWMs aside a DLP in a flat three midfield (HT Rashidi) and they get out and cover well. A CM(D) could do as well, so you might look to push your two DMs up the CM strata and set them like that; you could still keep your Central CM as a bbm, because with your flanks better covered, your three at the back means you don't really need a DM screen.

Join me on the dark side and construct your tactic around crosses. David Moyes would be immensely successful on this version of FM.

To be honest, the crosses are overpowered in this FM, I have conceded 3 goals from the same situation: crosses. I have a back four and still conceding goals like crazy from crosses.

I play a 3-5-2 as well and i score and concede a lot from crosses. My right winger this season has 20 assists in 33 games. Very annoying but i guess it compensates for the strikers inefficiency on easy chances. On the second season the cross conceding has dropped dramatically, i'm not sure why because i didn't change the formation much (apart from some new signings but the wingers are unchanged from support). The only change i did was to change my center DC to always be cover, but i'm not sure this would help with these crosses. I always have close down and show to weaker foot as default for all DL/DR and WBR/WBL positions to avoid crossers from deep.

Any way to score less from crosses and make 1 on 1s more effective?

Last season:

Current season:

That 3-5-2 above should be conceding from crosses, as Wingers are not the most proficient wide defensive Roles. Reverting them to DWs would help, as would reverting to more conventional wing back Roles. I can also see why it's hard for you to score / create; it's a tame Mentality with enormous onus on the front two - there's no real support from deep.

Any way to score less from crosses and make 1 on 1s more effective?

The only way is Update 16.3.0. Be patient and wait for it, and don't immerse yourself into a long-save career now.

Really if you leave your flanks completely exposed so opposition wingers have all the time in the world, you have no right to talk about 'crossing bugs'

The only way is Update 16.3.0. Be patient and wait for it, and don't immerse yourself into a long-save career now.

Don't be so dramatic.

And don't assume that 16.3.0 will include any "fixes" for crossing anyway

Using Silver Twilight Sparkle screenshots as an example:

Man Utd in real life premiership games in 2014/15 scored 26% of there total goals from crosses.

Everton scored the most from crosses in premiership games in 2014/15, 45% of there total goals were from crosses.

Your 35% isn't really an unrealistic percentage baring in mind the players and tactics you use are different.

You conceded 48% of your goals by crosses which is high, but your tactic is vulnerable in wide areas so isn't surprising.

I really don't understand what the issue with crosses is.

Just finished a season, I conceded 20 league goals in that time. They were conceded in the following manner:

Direct from Crosses - 3

Pinball after failing to clear from a cross - 1

Dribble to 6 yard box and pass - 1

Direct from Freekick - 3

Defensive Error - 1

Passes from inside the penalty area - 3

Direct from a Corner - 2

Throughball from Zone 14 - 2

Long ball - 2

Penalty - 2

If I include the Pinball goal, that's a total of 4 goals (20%) conceded from crosses in the league over an entire season. 20%. I really don't get it.

And if you want to see some real life overpowered crosses, look no further than Sunday's Milan derby (it's on YouTube). 2 of AC Milan's 3 goals came from crosses, and their 2nd is an absolute belter.

I also don't get the crosses issue, not a problem for me, my issues are balls over the top to pacy strikers but that is a gimmee since I push up already and use an offsides trap that will get unlocked sometimes.

It's not something that has bothered me either. The majority of goals I currently score are intricate bits of play through the middle (as the tactic is intending to deliver) and I concede <30% of goals from crosses, which compares favourable to the ~40% figure that SI have stated is the "real life".

I think there is a case for improving the way the defending of crosses looks, and reducing the quality of service relative to player attributes / capability, but the absolute number hasn't troubled me across numerous saves at varying levels and on different continents.

Yeah I don't think I am experiencing this crossing bug now. The difference being I've actually managed to set up my defence and midfield properly, so consequently don't get hit by these things.

I think people got a little too accustomed to the luxury of attacking wingbacks in FM15, not realising how unrealistic that was.

That 3-5-2 above should be conceding from crosses, as Wingers are not the most proficient wide defensive Roles. Reverting them to DWs would help, as would reverting to more conventional wing back Roles. I can also see why it's hard for you to score / create; it's a tame Mentality with enormous onus on the front two - there's no real support from deep.

I have no issues creating chances (avg of 29 minutes per ccc according to the game), just the players missing easy chances all the time (including the AI), so much so that it becomes surprising to see when strikers don't score from a cross.

These wingers as support always track back to defend, only problem is that the crosses are super accurate. I posted many videos of these goals from crosses and there is always a player of mine pressing the crosser when we concede from one.

I have no issues creating chances (avg of 29 minutes per ccc according to the game), just the players missing easy chances all the time (including the AI), so much so that it becomes surprising to see when strikers don't score from a cross.

What is the shot accuracy of your main strikers? What is their overall chance conversion? Sometimes it is hard to gauge what an "easy" chance is.

dont get how its helpful saying you dont get it ... why comment on a post where people obviously do have problems

dont get how its helpful saying you dont get it ... why comment on a post where people obviously do have problems

It shows that it's not a universal problem and that it is quite possible to do just fine against wide play and crosses.

I really don't understand what the issue with crosses is.

Just finished a season, I conceded 20 league goals in that time. They were conceded in the following manner:

Direct from Crosses - 3

Pinball after failing to clear from a cross - 1

Dribble to 6 yard box and pass - 1

Direct from Freekick - 3

Defensive Error - 1

Passes from inside the penalty area - 3

Direct from a Corner - 2

Throughball from Zone 14 - 2

Long ball - 2

Penalty - 2

If I include the Pinball goal, that's a total of 4 goals (20%) conceded from crosses in the league over an entire season. 20%. I really don't get it.

And if you want to see some real life overpowered crosses, look no further than Sunday's Milan derby (it's on YouTube). 2 of AC Milan's 3 goals came from crosses, and their 2nd is an absolute belter.

Please give me your tactics.

Crosses by themselves aren't terribly overpowered as in too accurate, well maybe except some from deep (and the finishing of the attackers when attacking crosses into the far post); the real big problem is that in some formations, some settings, against attacking fullbacks, the defending team is completely oblivious to them and gives them an enormous amount of space that they easily exploit.

Example : I play a 4-3-3 with a flat trio of MCs and inside forwards, biased towards possession play. I recently came across a team that plays the Christmas Tree formation (narrow version). You'd think my weakness against them would be down the middle, as my trio of MCs would mark their trio, therefore leaving their duo of AMCs completely free to pull my back 4 apart. Specially since I don't have DMs, their AMCs should have plenty of time on the ball and huge influence over the match. Instead, what happened is that again and again my inside forwards got pulled inwards to help mark their extra midfielders. Their attacking fullbacks ran riot (despite the fact I had a 2 vs 1 advantage on the wings!!) and made over 40 crosses. I tried pulling the IFs down to ML/MR position, which helped slightly but then we invited pressure all match, and they were still able to go around us anyway and ended up winning with 2 or 3 goals from crosses IIRC.

I'm going to guess your tactic features a DL/DR and a ML/MR, and a high defensive line? That's the most success I've had trying to limit the threat from crosses (but then there's other drawbacks I don't like all over the pitch, and/or it didn't suit my players)

I think people got a little too accustomed to the luxury of attacking wingbacks in FM15, not realising how unrealistic that was.

On the contrary, I think there isn't any special penalty for overly aggressive wingbacks in this ME, assuming the rest of your team covers them well, because otherwise yeah the AI is now much better at pulling your defence apart when countering, if you don't keep enough bodies at the back. But quick direct balls into the space behind your wingbacks? That doesn't happen at all, that's not a problem for us. The really dangerous crosses I witness are from deep when the AI fullbacks move up the field patiently in possession. Perhaps I should try slightly more aggressive fullbacks to see if it helps!

its the repetative nature of the runners too the front post then a free runner at the back with a tap in . cant the keeper come and claim sometimes. its just annoying i understand that not everyone will get the same problem but its happning a lot and saps the enjoyment

I do think there is a slight issue with defending on the flanks but glad I'm not at SI looking at a fix. As the previous post says, it’s not really a cross accuracy thing, more a defensive shape/closing down issue, linked to how the team is tactically deployed.

I decided to start up a save trying to make narrow formations work, I flicked a bit between a 4-3-1-2, 4-3-2-1, 4-1-3-2 and I finally settled on a narrow diamond 4-4-2 to use as my primary set up. I ended up employing a half back to spread the CBs, with the two full backs on FB (A). My two FBs have my highest average rating, as the 2 CMs, 1 AMC and 2 CFs occupy the opposition centrally, giving them soo much space out wide in a lot of games. It’s not been universally successful though, some games the opposition stop my full backs from being so effective by doubling up out wide, and while we do create chances through the middle, defensively the cracks appear. Generally my full backs then get in a lot of 2 v 1 out wide when defending and we struggle in these games. At the moment I basically have a 4-1-4-1 back up formation as a go to if the opposition are exploiting our flanks, as I haven’t quite figured out how to make the diamond defend effectively in that situation.

That all being said though, if you’re playing a narrow formation with only one wide player on each flank, the opposition are going to overload you on the flanks from time to time, or drag your central players out of shape as they try to cover the flanks. I don’t think this aspect is particularly unrealistic.

Please give me your tactics.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/447398-Developing-my-4-4-2

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/447398-Developing-my-4-4-2

I knew your username sounded familiar. Pair of fullbacks and wide midfielders, push higher up, close down more... yep exactly what I expected. Of course you're not witnessing (as many of) the death crosses from deep of onrushing fullbacks, you have pretty much the ideal formation and set up to counter it, it's at the very bottom of the list of dangerous things that could happen to your team naturally in real life.

I knew your username sounded familiar. Pair of fullbacks and wide midfielders, push higher up, close down more... yep exactly what I expected. Of course you're not witnessing (as many of) the death crosses from deep of onrushing fullbacks, you have pretty much the ideal formation and set up to counter it, it's at the very bottom of the list of dangerous things that could happen to your team naturally in real life.

Yeh exactly, and in a round about sort of way we've gone right back to what you picked up on in your first post (number 3). Different formations have inherent weaknesses and so it's up to us to try to mitigate those weaknesses as best we can.

My 442 may be strong down the flanks but I'd get killed through the middle if I didn't do something about it. Going back to the OP and 3 at the back, the weakness is the flanks which as you quite rightly pointed out isn't being mitigated.

There is perhaps also a perception issue ("omg lots of fullback killer passes" becomes somewhat of a snowball effect after a while), especially if that snowball takes into account player attributes ("wtf he doesn't have the attribute to pass like that") if you see what I mean. And so very rapidly this snowball becomes so big, and oft repeated, that people start talking in terms of bugs and 3 at the back being impossible.

What is the shot accuracy of your main strikers? What is their overall chance conversion? Sometimes it is hard to gauge what an "easy" chance is.

Any easy way to check it out? CCCs are kind of wrong most of the time, some chances aren't clear cut get counted as clear cut, and some chances that are don't get counted, but i don't know of any other easy way to check "good chances" created apart from watching it on the match (which i saw many and reported in bug forum). Guess easiest way would be to record the highlights.

Any easy way to check it out? CCCs are kind of wrong most of the time, some chances aren't clear cut get counted as clear cut, and some chances that are don't get counted, but i don't know of any other easy way to check "good chances" created apart from watching it on the match (which i saw many and reported in bug forum). Guess easiest way would be to record the highlights.

No, you really have to watch it to see- it isn't that hard, just go to the prozone and bring up your shots screen and click on each dot (half chances are yellow I think, CCC are orange? Something like anyway) and it will take you to the few second clip of it. You can watch all of them in less than a minute.

No, you really have to watch it to see- it isn't that hard, just go to the prozone and bring up your shots screen and click on each dot (half chances are yellow I think, CCC are orange? Something like anyway) and it will take you to the few second clip of it. You can watch all of them in less than a minute.

Interesting, that helps a lot thanks, i was watching each highlight which took a long time, these shortcuts to shots should help. If so i suppose i'll just have to record the bad finishing and ask for help here to see if anyone has ideas how to decrease striker stupidity.

Any easy way to check it out? CCCs are kind of wrong most of the time, some chances aren't clear cut get counted as clear cut, and some chances that are don't get counted, but i don't know of any other easy way to check "good chances" created apart from watching it on the match (which i saw many and reported in bug forum). Guess easiest way would be to record the highlights.

I play FMT and can go into a player report to see an overview of their accuracy. I guess there must be an equivalent in the full game mode, as that typically has more stats and things than FMT. Here's Zach Clough on my save in season four:

And here's Luciano Vietto:

So both are hitting about a third of their shots on target. Clough is scoring about a third of all of his shots, Vietto about a quarter. As for assessing the difficulty of chances, then you'd need to do what Dr. Hook suggested.

Interesting, that helps a lot thanks, i was watching each highlight which took a long time, these shortcuts to shots should help. If so i suppose i'll just have to record the bad finishing and ask for help here to see if anyone has ideas how to decrease striker stupidity.

It's a great feature that, like a lot of things in FM is not well advertised, and it should be! Things to look for are obviously angle of shot, but more importantly, how much time does he have before shooting and how much traffic is around him. Sometimes they do miss some sitters, but a lot of times they are rushed on the shot (volley or half volley or nearly so) or have a bodies really near that reduce space and opportunity.

My 442 may be strong down the flanks but I'd get killed through the middle if I didn't do something about it. Going back to the OP and 3 at the back, the weakness is the flanks which as you quite rightly pointed out isn't being mitigated.

I think the difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying, is that I don't believe at the moment you're as likely to get killed through the middle if you field a tactic that's vulnerable there; as you're likely to get killed through the wings if you do the opposite. Or at least certain types of wing-vulnerable systems (because narrow tactics on aggressive mentalities seem VERY effective!). I don't think it would be fair to say you were lucky to end up with a system that's great, as clearly you put a lot of work in it, and it's really well-thought, but I do think by chance you ended up in a place where this kind of thing just doesn't manifestate from the start.

Again, refer to my example of me playing a wide 4-3-3 against a Christmas Tree (narrow 4-3-2-1). I expected to get killed down the middle, as the opponents' advantage in numbers was there... instead they murdered me down the wings, where I had an extra player (!). This is the kind of thing that just doesn't make sense. I'd expect some indirect consequences of my players being dragged across the pitch, sure, but never to that extent.

It's nice to treat FM as a perfect copy of how real life physics play out, a perfect simulation, but it just isn't and will never be. It just can't be perfectly balanced, there'll always be some things here and there that are a little too effective or slightly inbalanced. That being said, I agree the best approach to the game is to use some real life common sense, and mitigate your tactic's natural weaknesses and optimize your strengths.

Here is an example of the bad finishing i was referring to. John Fatai just miss miss miss miss miss, 11 CCC, good thing my tactic creates many easy chances but so many are wasted that it's ridiculous and i wanna do something to reduce the missed easy chances. Also i don't know why but the highlight upload was super buggy, lots of fade in and out and players using trackjackets on field. The GK also jumping before the shot is taken in some chances is also a very big issue.

Match stats

John Fatai profile

John Fatai stats

[video=youtube;mgg4RYTRahU]

Having looked at many of those, there were some egregious misses for sure, but a number of those just weren't quality scoring chances. A lot of volleyed balls with defenders close by, a couple the keeper came off his line and cut down the angle, one where it was a strong shot but he was being shown outside and only had a shot at the edge of the goal etc. On a different day, at least a couple of those will go on, but this perfectly illustrates the problems with the CCC and Half Chance statistic in the game. It calculates a CCC based on where the shooter is in a cone starting from the goal out to somewhere above the 6 yard box line, and how many defenders are in close range to the shooter. I don't know the exact algorithm, but a shot can meet the game's conditions for a CCC but when you look at it you see that it really isn't much of a chance. I'd even say on a few of those your man did well to get a shot on target.

have to agree with origina poster - crosses are a nightmare in this version of the game, its bordering ridiculous that they could even release a game with it like this.

getting a back 3 to work is nigh on impossible aswell its as if the AI doesnt want you to use anything but banks of 4 to defend no matter WHAT you do, iv had a 3/4/3 diamond going with the middle two of the diamond man marking opposing wingers and the front wide strikers man marking opposing wing backs - leaving 3 at the back to deal with usually a lone striker, still doesnt work cross/goal! thats the original way to set up a 3/4/3 diamond btw (marking) and it works IRL ask cruyff/lvg/biesla an co yet it will not work on FM!

Not only crosses, but lateral free kicks are also nightmare...

Not only crosses, but lateral free kicks are also nightmare...

lateral movement full stop in the game is POOR! everything is vertical almost!

Having looked at many of those, there were some egregious misses for sure, but a number of those just weren't quality scoring chances. A lot of volleyed balls with defenders close by, a couple the keeper came off his line and cut down the angle, one where it was a strong shot but he was being shown outside and only had a shot at the edge of the goal etc. On a different day, at least a couple of those will go on, but this perfectly illustrates the problems with the CCC and Half Chance statistic in the game. It calculates a CCC based on where the shooter is in a cone starting from the goal out to somewhere above the 6 yard box line, and how many defenders are in close range to the shooter. I don't know the exact algorithm, but a shot can meet the game's conditions for a CCC but when you look at it you see that it really isn't much of a chance. I'd even say on a few of those your man did well to get a shot on target.

Well i think some of those should be pretty easy to score for a player with his stats, i know he scored a hat trick but even then his finishing was just awful. The hard part is getting by the defender which he did a lot of times, but then the finishing of strikers is just poor, even with high stats. Here is another match where he missed loads again, AI also missed plenty of easy chances in this match:

Match stats

[video=youtube;sNz6-3KM4kY]

have to agree with origina poster - crosses are a nightmare in this version of the game, its bordering ridiculous that they could even release a game with it like this.

getting a back 3 to work is nigh on impossible aswell its as if the AI doesnt want you to use anything but banks of 4 to defend no matter WHAT you do, iv had a 3/4/3 diamond going with the middle two of the diamond man marking opposing wingers and the front wide strikers man marking opposing wing backs - leaving 3 at the back to deal with usually a lone striker, still doesnt work cross/goal! thats the original way to set up a 3/4/3 diamond btw (marking) and it works IRL ask cruyff/lvg/biesla an co yet it will not work on FM!

Your back three system is the weakest I have seen in my life. Seriously, there is no balance. It's no wonder you struggle with crosses if that's the sort of system that your decision making process ends up with. Cleon has given some advice: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/451062-The-Art-of-Attacking-Football?p=10702923&viewfull=1#post10702923

dont get how its helpful saying you dont get it ... why comment on a post where people obviously do have problems

Because inevitably people always blame the match engine for glaring tactical problems. That's not to say that at times the m.e is an issue but the issue with crosses is not a glaring for everyone.

The funny thing was the crosses were not a problem for me but then actually became an issue for a bit, the tactics were the same so after some minor analysis I realised the problem was coming from the left.

I had cashed in on my lb and cb with full faith my younger players would step up and then I realised that they were very deficient in some key(to me) areas and I had focused on the wrong attributes for my tactic.

I do think that some people focus on tactics as an absolute without actually looking at their players attributes and how it fits in to their system. There is also the issue that SI's attributes for certain roles aren't perfect and this was made obvious to me in a thread Cleon made where he turned his left back(?) in to a dlf because Cleons required attributes for the role were perfect.

The whole point I am making is that every year we get people who are blaming the m.e for issues and then say they are waiting for updates and then inevitably the update fails to resolve their issues when in reality the issue could either be potentially with their set-up or the players in their squad and their ability to do what the manager wants.

Your back three system is the weakest I have seen in my life. Seriously, there is no balance. It's no wonder you struggle with crosses if that's the sort of system that your decision making process ends up with. Cleon has given some advice: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/451062-The-Art-of-Attacking-Football?p=10702923&viewfull=1#post10702923

right ok herringbone - wind your neck in for a moment, FIRSTLY - this isnt MY back three system, iv just tried to copy the cruyff/lvg system by watching a video of how they play - SECONDLY "your decision making process" on THIS occasion its wrong, but its not usually and i usually end up with pretty decent tactics. THIRDLY, no matter what system/formation you play on this current edition 4-5-1/4-4-2/4-3-3 crossing is a weakness in the game that is fairly obvious.

your trying to dig me out here from me posting ONE setup, at least im attempting and not just here to download a plug and play!

right ok herringbone - wind your neck in for a moment, FIRSTLY - this isnt MY back three system, iv just tried to copy the cruyff/lvg system by watching a video of how they play - SECONDLY "your decision making process" on THIS occasion its wrong, but its not usually and i usually end up with pretty decent tactics. THIRDLY, no matter what system/formation you play on this current edition 4-5-1/4-4-2/4-3-3 crossing is a weakness in the game that is fairly obvious.

your trying to dig me out here from me posting ONE setup, at least im attempting and not just here to download a plug and play!

He's right though.

My two cents: I agree with herringbone. The deciding factor for me is that in my experience, it isn't the case that crossing generally is overpowered- in fact, crosses from the byline into a crowded box are as wasteful as they always have been, and should be.

However, there is one TYPE of goal from crosses that does seem at first look to be overpowered; a deep cross to the far post converted by a striker who seems to be the only player interested in the ball. Irl these goals do happen, but the ME for me doesn't convey the tussle between the striker and cbs well enough, and it looks like the striker is unopposed. Frustrating but nowhere near game breaking for me

right ok herringbone - wind your neck in for a moment, FIRSTLY - this isnt MY back three system, iv just tried to copy the cruyff/lvg system by watching a video of how they play - SECONDLY "your decision making process" on THIS occasion its wrong, but its not usually and i usually end up with pretty decent tactics. THIRDLY, no matter what system/formation you play on this current edition 4-5-1/4-4-2/4-3-3 crossing is a weakness in the game that is fairly obvious.

your trying to dig me out here from me posting ONE setup, at least im attempting and not just here to download a plug and play!

He's correct though, so wind your neck in. If you want to come out with silly statements like;

have to agree with origina poster - crosses are a nightmare in this version of the game, its bordering ridiculous that they could even release a game with it like this.

getting a back 3 to work is nigh on impossible aswell its as if the AI doesnt want you to use anything but banks of 4 to defend no matter WHAT you do, iv had a 3/4/3 diamond going with the middle two of the diamond man marking opposing wingers and the front wide strikers man marking opposing wing backs - leaving 3 at the back to deal with usually a lone striker, still doesnt work cross/goal! thats the original way to set up a 3/4/3 diamond btw (marking) and it works IRL ask cruyff/lvg/biesla an co yet it will not work on FM!

Stop saying nonesense like this and then you don't leave yourself open. You also claim you're good at making tactics yet I've seen zero evidence of this in any of your posts. If anything I'd say the opposite is true and you actually don't. You don't understand how they work as well as you believe you do. Which is fine but until you change your thinking you'll always have the same issues.

And he's right about the set up you posted, I've not seen a worst tactic posted on here for years and that's saying something. Blunt maybe but the truth.

He's correct though, so wind your neck in. If you want to come out with silly statements like;

Stop saying nonesense like this and then you don't leave yourself open. You also claim you're good at making tactics yet I've seen zero evidence of this in any of your posts. If anything I'd say the opposite is true and you actually don't. You don't understand how they work as well as you believe you do. Which is fine but until you change your thinking you'll always have the same issues.

And he's right about the set up you posted, I've not seen a worst tactic posted on here for years and that's saying something. Blunt maybe but the truth.

He is right about that specific tactic i posted, i even said so! but i also said that i just copied the formation and instructed it to do what it does in real life.

Your telling me to wind my neck in but in fairness im not slating anybody am i? and as regards to the "your decision making" comment, its not my decision making that tactic is not my tactic its not something that i decided upon - i just followed a basic guide to that system, and put it together into football manager to see if it would work.

http://www.fmscout.com/a-der-raumdeuter-fm15-tactic.html

These two that i put together in fm15 purely from my own decision making ended up being pretty good tactics and got alot of good feedback from the FM society/Fmscout/FMbase.

You must surely be able to see that im asking alot of questions and giving my viewpoint on things TO change my thinking and get the right idea of how fm16 tactical creator is working?

He is right about that specific tactic i posted, i even said so! but i also said that i just copied the formation and instructed it to do what it does in real life.

Your telling me to wind my neck in but in fairness im not slating anybody am i? and as regards to the "your decision making" comment, its not my decision making that tactic is not my tactic its not something that i decided upon - i just followed a basic guide to that system, and put it together into football manager to see if it would work.

I'm talking about the other tactics you've mentioned or posted about looking at your post history. But still, if you understand tactics as well as you claim you'd have known the Ajax thing wouldn't have worked anyway. Plus what you've said is still your own decision making :brock:

right ok herringbone - wind your neck in for a moment, FIRSTLY - this isnt MY back three system, iv just tried to copy the cruyff/lvg system by watching a video of how they play - SECONDLY "your decision making process" on THIS occasion its wrong, but its not usually and i usually end up with pretty decent tactics. THIRDLY, no matter what system/formation you play on this current edition 4-5-1/4-4-2/4-3-3 crossing is a weakness in the game that is fairly obvious.

your trying to dig me out here from me posting ONE setup, at least im attempting and not just here to download a plug and play!

Apologies for touching a nerve, but I will post directly when a user who implies he has sound tactical grounding has been dissing an aspect of the game, and then posts a tactic which is enormously flawed and exacerbates the aspect that has been criticised. I like to think I'm generally reasonable and helpful, but when a series of posts stack up in a way which just don't add up, I will call that user out accordingly.

I'm talking about the other tactics you've mentioned or posted about looking at your post history. But still, if you understand tactics as well as you claim you'd have known the Ajax thing wouldn't have worked anyway. Plus what you've said is still your own decision making :brock:

Id like you to elaborate on that, because it looks as if your saying that any other tactic iv previously posted are nonsense and that i have no idea?

Clearly other tactics iv posted have worked, i dont really see why your acting like a **** with me or towards me - at the end of the day football is opinions, your way of doing things isnt BIBLE neither is mine... iv asked for help and your input so as i can create better tactics in fm16 and all im really getting is a smart arsed remark such as

But still, if you understand tactics as well as you claim you'd have known the Ajax thing wouldn't have worked anyway.

You also claim you're good at making tactics yet I've seen zero evidence of this in any of your posts. If anything I'd say the opposite is true and you actually don't.

When have i EVER claimed i know tactics inside out or how the game works? iv not, iv said in my opinion iv got a good understanding and iv created tactics i think will work in the past and they have - i know from a real life point of view how things work because iv played alot of football, but this isnt real life.

Apologies for touching a nerve, but I will post directly when a user who implies he has sound tactical grounding has been dissing an aspect of the game, and then posts a tactic which is enormously flawed and exacerbates the aspect that has been criticised. I like to think I'm generally reasonable and helpful, but when a series of posts stack up in a way which just don't add up, I will call that user out accordingly.

the aspect of the game im dissing has nothing to do with any tactics, crossing is an issue in the game - its not just me saying that, its generally accepted across the board.

yet again, that tactic is one iv put together copying a formation and way cruyff set his team up to play... not how i would set my team up to play, you just seem to want to poke fun and call me a dickhead because of one tactic iv posted up that iv tried to be a bit adventurous with creating because id seen an article on it!!!