FM AI literally unbeatable

So, after playing FM for around 10 years now, I was quite devastated to find not any success in this years FM.

I tried different clubs, saves, tactics, even looked out for the best tactics working in community. Yet to no avail.

Then to test the difficulty of the game, I saved the game before a league game to see if I can get a win.

I played the same match over 15 times with 3 different tactics and majority were a loss, and few ties, and no wins.

I did it in another save and I've gotten the same result. (Both games by team was the favourites by odds and clearly the better team)

Does anyone know how to get through this?

So, after playing FM for around 10 years now, I was quite devastated to find not any success in this years FM.

I tried different clubs, saves, tactics, even looked out for the best tactics working in community. Yet to no avail.

Then to test the difficulty of the game, I saved the game before a league game to see if I can get a win.

I played the same match over 15 times with 3 different tactics and majority were a loss, and few ties, and no wins.

I did it in another save and I've gotten the same result. (Both games by team was the favourites by odds and clearly the better team)

Does anyone know how to get through this?

Stop randomly replaying, and jumping from attempt to attempt without actually working out what your issues are.

You're not actually testing the difficulty (or indeed much of anything). I'm at a loss as to what you think you'll achieve tbh.

I've tried that in my 4 other saves in full detail.

The replay was just done to test if there is a legit way to beat that particular game. And in those 15 replays (30 in total with 2 games) I ve tried over 6 tactics, different player instructions, pre game and half game talks, player changes, and different shouts

Yet tbh: it doesn't make sense and it is not fair to not be able to win a game when you attempt all sorts of different ways to win it when you are favourites.

The game is clearly broken.

I've tried that in my 4 other saves in full detail.

The replay was just done to test if there is a legit way to beat that particular game. And in those 15 replays (30 in total with 2 games) I ve tried over 6 tactics, different player instructions, pre game and half game talks, player changes, and different shouts

It doesn't test anything though does it? The first thing that strikes me from the OP is the lack of any analysis of the game itself.

Why did you try 6 tactics? what was the basis for all of them. Was was the basis for different instructions, why did you choose those. Why different team talks? Why the changes in players?

Short question: what exactly were you trying to achieve?

Let's go through this in stages...

When you get to a match, there are thousands of factors to take into account..

Injuries, fitness, players, tactics, pitch, form, opponents etc..

All you are doing is reloading the same factors and changing maybe a couple of them.. is it any wonder that a lot of the time you get the same result?

The same would happen in the real world if you could replay matches, if all of the little tiny seemingly inconsequential factors came together and stayed the same, you would still end up with the same result.. cause and effect....

That's not to say that you can't change circumstances of course, it's entirely possible you could get a simple win no problem.

Calling it literally unbeatable is misleading and inaccurate tbh.. i'm almost 100% sure if you uploaded your save, almost anyone on here could get you a win.

I would have agreed with you if I hadn't find success in any other 9 years of playing the game. I just feel like AI doesn't want you to win particular matches no matter what you do.

Welshace's post is spot on, but I want to approach this from a different angle. I want to know why you make the changes you did, and your process of thoughts.

I would have agreed with you if I hadn't find success in any other 9 years of playing the game. I just feel like AI doesn't want you to win particular matches no matter what you do.

That doesn't happen. The game has zero concept of who your or the opposition are.

Over the 15 replays, I did find similar results. Always the same player from opponent would recieve the red card, or always a same player of theirs would score a very similar goal.

So, in different replays, I've tried to block that happening with player instructions, tactical changes but the result was the same. I didn't just mindlessly played the 15 replays, all the replays were in extended for me to analyze what was wrong. I guess I will not know, just wanted to see if anyone else experienced this

So, after playing FM for around 10 years now, I was quite devastated to find not any success in this years FM.

I tried different clubs, saves, tactics, even looked out for the best tactics working in community. Yet to no avail.

Then to test the difficulty of the game, I saved the game before a league game to see if I can get a win.

I played the same match over 15 times with 3 different tactics and majority were a loss, and few ties, and no wins.

I did it in another save and I've gotten the same result. (Both games by team was the favourites by odds and clearly the better team)

Does anyone know how to get through this?

You know that matches don't happen in isolation, don't you?

Every single thing that is said and done before a match has an effect on the match itself. If you're saving and loading right before the match then a huge amount of variables are already in place and if you've gone into the game with their squad on a high, or more fired up for the game, then that is going to be the same every single time you load that save and so it's going to be a very hard game for you.

If you want to save and replay a game then you really need to be saving a week or more before the match and not take the exact same approach in the build up to it each time.

As for tactics, copying a community tactic isn't a guarantee of success like it used to be. The match engine requires much more tactical awareness from the user, you can't just plug in a tactic and expect it to work, you need to be using a tactic that is built around your squad to get the best out of your players, you need to tweak your tactic for the opposition you're playing, changing it to take advantage of any weaknesses they have and to counter their strengths, you need to be reactive to what happens during the match.

Lastly, if the AI was "literally unbeatable" then how do you explain:

This guy turning Scotland into a world class nation - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/438062-FM16-Scotland-We-have-a-dream-of-not-coming-home-too-soon

This guy turning almost every team he manages into a top class side - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/441808-dafuge-on-tour-again

This guy taking a fictional team made up entirely of Irishmen from League 2 to the top of the Premiership - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/449321-FM16-An-Irishman-in-Ireland-but-really-England-kinda-uh

And the countless more people who haven't written stories like that but have turned sides from the bottom division in to Champions League winners, who have taken over relegation candidates and gotten them promoted in a season or two, have transformed tiny nations into world beaters.

Do you not think that if the AI was "literally unbeatable" there would be anything on this forum other than complains about it?

If the AI was "literally unbeatable" then why are there currently 71,000 people playing the game?

Just because you suck at the game doesn't mean that the AI is "literally unbeatable".

Just because you suck at the game doesn't mean that the AI is "literally unbeatable".

I'm not sure any game can be literally "literally unbeatable". My guess is the OP has literally no idea what the word 'literally' literally means.

*looks at title of thread and sees it says "literally unbeatable"*

*looks at his own league record on his own save*

*sees I've won more than one game*

....

I hang out in the tactics forum more than anywhere else, and another person saying the AI is unbeatable has piqued my interest here - as it's a completely alien concept to me.

Leaving the constant replaying of the same game to one side for a moment (although never a good idea), you are trying all sorts of different tactical settings for these replays. Why? What did you notice in one match that made you think "I know, I'll try this approach instead in the next replay"? And when that didn't work, what did you notice that made you try something else? And so on.

If you noticed issues during matches, what did you change during the match to address the problems? Why didn't they work?

What team are you playing as? Who is your opponent in these replays? Can you detail your original base tactic that you used for the initial match? And detail the other systems that you tried and also didn't work?

Questions perhaps that are better in the Tactics forum, but I'd really like to cut through the generalisation of "nothing works" and actually get some examples and context. A pkm or two would good as well.

I'm not sure any game can be literally "literally unbeatable". My guess is the OP has literally no idea what the word 'literally' literally means.

Well, the pirated version of one of the Serious Sam games back in about 2010 was "literally unbeatable" but that's because it spawned a giant unkillable robot scorpion with a minigun on its tail.

As for reloads, we've had a lovely one back on FM 2015. User comes in, claims game is unwinnable (naturally, never is, unless you're Stalybridge going to have a shot at Stamford, maybe, the gap in quality is just too huge).

All that is set is: Morale, match focus, weather conditions, stuff like that. Naturally that influences starting conditions and player confidence quite a bit, which all rubs off on the ability and motivation on the day. In other words if morale is shot across the squad, it's likely going to be a though day at the office and there's also the opposing side to consider who may or may not be without key players etc as they're out in the cold or unfit. However, it's still from kick-off a newly match. It's like traveling back in time to the day you saved, and have another go at that. The lad was playing away at Stamford actually, which you can imagine is tough in particular early on when the AI still has some of the best players in the league (Hazard, cough, whose runs could win you matches all alone). I actually loved that he bothered to upload as it showed a couple misconceptions:

- Matches in FM are played in full. Move by move. Second by second. From kick off. This technically is no different from any other half-way decent footie game ever since Kick Off on Commodore 64. They spawn different matches. Each and every time. If you'd kick off an AI vs AI match in Fifa, it'd also be a newly match, technically

- You aren't alone. In one reload Chelsea, managed by Frank de Boer at that point, would field a centre back who had a jumping reach of far less than 10, which is very very rare on that level. If he did, you could literally exploit that, like with pairing him up against Lukaku as a bonafide Target Man, who would go on to win like 70% of his headers. No guarantee for a win, naturally, this is all about probabilities due to the pitifully few goals on average and thus matches being decided on key moments, but you may get the drift. Here's the thing: He did not always do that, however.

- Additionally the sequence of goals, if there are to be any, will never be the same. You are not alone, and AI managers react to this always. If they concede, they may try to get back into the game. If they go up, they may try to protect that. You get the drift. If you'd play online and all that mattered and influence match dynamics was your input, the human player opposing you would rightly send threats to the SI offices at London

- This pairing was wonderful as it not only highlighted that, it highlighted it tenfold as Frank de Boer due to the traits given by research would always switch to a 3 central forward formation at HT if he was trailing behind. People watching matches probably know what that means as per FM (which is a little weird and a dynamics you would not at all find in real football, of which FM has several, being a computer sim): Same as the three guys in yellow here, those three forwards don't track back if their side is pushed back, all lining up to readily snatch on the opportunity each time your team drops the ball. It is a highly dangerous thing even against the weakest of sides should it happen. So the match was actually easier if you scored late-on as that switch never came

Nevertheless, in all of the reloads I personally did throughout the years, I never once had something generally happen at totally random, being completely and utterly at odds to how I had the side lining up. Naturally goals are a more tricky thing, as even the slightest of chance is a chance and goals remain scarce, typically. I had matches slowed down to a crawl repeatedly, with most of the attempts if anybeing from set pieces, as I had anticipated, scoring 0-0s in sequence. However, there's always an opposing team to consider. That sequence was with a favourite, against which opponents typically are content with a draw, so they don't aggressively push up themselves, which is visible from play, naturally. Additionally hugely sympathies for those who struggle with the downright basics in tactics as per FM too. The above reload was actually on FM full, and I didn't at all bother with tactical gelling all that match. It was apparent the guy was using one of the downloads hell-bend on dominating few key stats such as possession and shot counts, but I chopped it around to a more counter attacking target man thing all the same (despite gelling taking a hit, in particular passing, as you can imagine). Not at random though. It was always going to be a tight affair, but with luck actually the first attempt was a win, and I wasn't actually alone. I'm really no particularly great at tactics whatsoever, but looking at matches and experiencing with reloads: There are no unwinnable matches. This is completely nonsense.

Keep it nice folks.

Your issue may be using "plug and play" tactics. I did that for years. as a matter of fact a decade, lol. Just very seldom works in the longrun. those tactics are made for a certain type of team, certain type of players. I learned that the hard way.

You also have to look at your team and who you are playing. if you are FC United and you expect to beat Chelsea.... That prob wont happen if you replay a million times

Does anyone know how to get through this?

As TMS has hinted at - figure out why you lose and then you can start addressing the issue. Just randomly using different tactics won't necessarily solve anything, as you've found out.

Seems like there's many threads like this nowdays! Maybe FM16 is more complex than previous versions and take much more in calculation when it's matchday..!?

I'm also a FM veteran and I'm struggling aswell, but I had patience and for the first time I visited the tactics forum. Figured out that I've misinterpetated (spelling?) some of the tactical instructions..

Also a tip is to check out some let's play on youtube.. Actually here I've learnt the most since you see everything in action. I've taken some pieces from here and there and eventually got some nice wins..

It's literally Jamie Redknapp for me, Ruud.

But honestly, OP, did you really believe that the AI was "literally unbeatable" when you posted this? As in, no-one can beat it? Deary me...

Im one of the laziest FM players, I just pick a default tactic from the list... generally 4-4-2, do nothing else to it. Let the coaches do the training (the coaching staff signed by the DOF as I dont bother with that side of things). I then play the game (very fast commentary, no highlights at all), dont do any tactical interference, wont change tactics even if a player is sent off... for example if a CB is sent off, ill just drag my other CB central and play a 3-4-2 etc

And even being that basic with the game, I have won. I lose as well, but thats football.

So my advice, is keep on plugging.

the bog standard high tempo 4-4-2 should be reasonably effective, lets face it, all this modern waffle about 4-2-3-1 deep lying this, raumdeueter that, specialist positions etc doesn't exist for me in the real world, good player have certain attributes and they naturally fit into this group, football tactics are massively overstated in this game, ask any modern coach and they will tell you it's all about player quality, the football leagues in the world don't lie, the richest teams win the leagues every time, do they have great tactics, not at all, they have great players, man utd dominated the league played a basic 4-4-2 high tempo direct style, paul scholes was never a 'deep lying playmaker', he didn't have much pace and he played centrally so in this game he would have been shoehorned into that category, but as a manger you wouldn't tell him to pass this way or that way or not shoot as much etc, that for me is all nonsense, the decision making is instant, theres too much fiddling now in football manager for me, too many instructions over complicating a simple game, sign the best players, get a good morale up, and the tactics should be largely irrelevant, incidently, i had great players in the deep lying playmaker and ball wining roles but struggled like hell for some reason, switched them both to bog standard central midfield on 'automatic' and suddenly my team looked like world beaters, ifor me thats nonsense, but it worked, so hey ho

So far in my save I've employed the bog standard 4-4-2 mostly, with only a couple of instructions thrown in. At one club, I didn't even do that, using the stock 4-4-2, standard mentality and no instructions. And it was successful until I left.

I just bought this year's game, i know im just a season and half in but i literally can't stop winning.

Sometimes im losing 1 or even 2 to 0 by half time, but changes in tactics and i always turn it around. Used to be much less lucky in previous years and had hideous losing streaks in 15.

It's your tactics.

yeh, its your tactics, it's all getting rather silly now with footy manager for me with the ridiculous effect of tactics on games as if in reality all crap teams need to do is have a good tactic to win, i thought sigames try and base this game on reality, Bayern, barca etc, only win because they have good tactics, all the other managers in the leagues are all morons

Started on a slippery slope, now it's vertical. It has descended into a farce as a result of unsubstantiated ramblings of somebody with an appropriate username who deals poorly with defeat and that's it. Thread closed.