defending and defensive behaviour just awful???

just wondered, whether other players have also noticed, that in this years fm, defending has become sooo awfully. defenders reacting very cautious, never going into challenges and opposition strikers can run through my defence, as he would have his wall hack on. in fm11, I played with easy tackling for my back four and the two holding midfielders and it worked wonders, really dominated the whole midfield. but now, when I play with easy tackling, my defenders just watch the opposition players. even when I change to normal, there arent badly and improvements... only solution is hard tackling, but this causes a lot of danger in terms of cards. its a shame, that defending is still a huge problem in this game, after 3,4,5 years of fm, people complaining about horrible defending, theyve even made it worse than fm11, where it hasnt been really well aswell, but in comparison to this years fm, it was still better

Have you tried pushing your defence up a bit (need quick defenders)? Or pull down your midfield? Are your players mentally weak in the sweet spots (FM wise)? What about match preparation? Putting it on low/average at defensive positioning might help.

Have you tried pushing your defence up a bit (need quick defenders)? Or pull down your midfield? Are your players mentally weak in the sweet spots (FM wise)? What about match preparation? Putting it on low/average at defensive positioning might help.

Iam playing with everton, jagielka, distin as cb, baines and hibbert as fb and fellaini/rodwell as the two holding mids. so probably one of the best defences in the game. it has nothing to do with match preparation. this is just crap. its something with the ME. defenders are too cautious and badly react. my holding midfielders have defensive midfielders and d-line had been 14notches but now on 10, but still facing the same problems. opposition strikers can easily run through my defence without being put under pressure...

Try setting your pressing to hard or whatever its called

I don't know much about these players to be honest so don't know if they might be the best defenders.

Has your players low aggression? If so they will wait longer before attacking the ball and take less chances in getting the ball.

Now that you choose to manually make your tactics something might go horrible wrong (especially if you are not too sure how the ME works). Have you tried to use the Tactics creator and compare it to your manually made tactic?

How fast are your defenders? I generally don't have any problems as long as i have pacy defenders.

Pace is somewhat overpowered in this game.

How fast are your defenders? I generally don't have any problems as long as i have pacy defenders.

Pace is somewhat overpowered in this game.

might be true, but didnt we complain about this problem in fm11? what is SI doing? dont they give an attention to what we users say??? I mean, it cant be realistic, when in this game, someone like bassong is being considered as one of the best center backs, meanwhile you cant get anything with the likes of terry, vidic and so on, because theyre just too slow...

mine vary sometimes they tackle everywhere and win the ball, and the oppoants get 0 shots, other times they dont bother, it is irritating.

hopefully we will see some long expected defensive ME improvements in FM13. it's got nothing to do with tackling, aggression or pace (which helps becouse pace is so important). defensive code is just not up to attacking yet. poor defending is also the reason why pace is so overpowered.

I'm not sure if the defending in FM is bad or if its just the graphical representation of whats happening.

However I do agree. One bit that always makes me laugh is when a defender is twice as near to a ball as the opposition but he just ambles over as the opposition player rushes in. I'm always shouting "run...get a move on" but alas he cant hear me

I'd like to think that this is an area of the ME that PC will be looking at for 2013

there were no real improvments on zonal marking - defending as a unit, closing down, aticipation etc.. in recent years. at least not visible ones. I don't really care if it's just a poop graphical representation, but I doubt it is. things like having 50 shots in games, every team being able to do the tika taka around opposition box, Maradona-like dribbling with just one defender covering, or clearing the ball without any real pressure are painfull to watch..

What makes me tick is part of the defending game but not the actual defenders. Long through balls that your goalkeeper has a clear advantage on, he runs forit...and stops, because the penalty are does. Striker does not stop, so he gets the ball, rounds or chips your keeper...

Defensive mentality is not a good idea if you don't lie deep and compactly. It makes the players passive in my opinion.

Try attacking mentality, and set the closing down to the same level as defensive line (roughly).

Defensive behaviour like you describe may also be caused by poor team talks and/or poor morale.

It's really frustrating watching your defenders remain passive whilst an attacker glides with cheeky ease into your box and scores. Sometimes I end up screaming "TACKLE" for them to get a tackle in.

I'm not sure if the defending in FM is bad or if its just the graphical representation of whats happening.

However I do agree. One bit that always makes me laugh is when a defender is twice as near to a ball as the opposition but he just ambles over as the opposition player rushes in. I'm always shouting "run...get a move on" but alas he cant hear me

I'd like to think that this is an area of the ME that PC will be looking at for 2013

this is my opinion that people forget what is happening on your screen in 3d isn't actually what's happening in the game it's just a visual representation of what's happening and it can make it look terrible at times and this is solely the reason i now watch it in 2d watching in 3d just drives me mad

What makes me tick is part of the defending game but not the actual defenders. Long through balls that your goalkeeper has a clear advantage on, he runs forit...and stops, because the penalty are does. Striker does not stop, so he gets the ball, rounds or chips your keeper...

Are you equally frustrated when it's your team scoring such a goal?

for me it has nothing to do with the 3d. i watch the games in 2d all the time. it frustrates me because strikers or wingers can run across the entire pitch with my player shadowing them and nobody coming over to help. its the lack of multiple players closing down which frustrates me. the marking behavior of players is just awful sometimes. to be fair sometimes its terrible in real life but in real life i can at least scream at my guys to pick up the wide open guy. or to close him down.

might be true, but didnt we complain about this problem in fm11? what is SI doing? dont they give an attention to what we users say??? I mean, it cant be realistic, when in this game, someone like bassong is being considered as one of the best center backs, meanwhile you cant get anything with the likes of terry, vidic and so on, because theyre just too slow...

IMHO Terry/Vidic are two of the best defenders on the game, whenever I have played Chelsea/United been so difficult to play against, even with pacy strikers

just wondered, whether other players have also noticed, that in this years fm, defending has become sooo awfully. defenders reacting very cautious, never going into challenges and opposition strikers can run through my defence, as he would have his wall hack on. in fm11, I played with easy tackling for my back four and the two holding midfielders and it worked wonders, really dominated the whole midfield. but now, when I play with easy tackling, my defenders just watch the opposition players. even when I change to normal, there arent badly and improvements... only solution is hard tackling, but this causes a lot of danger in terms of cards. its a shame, that defending is still a huge problem in this game, after 3,4,5 years of fm, people complaining about horrible defending, theyve even made it worse than fm11, where it hasnt been really well aswell, but in comparison to this years fm, it was still better

stop blaming ther game set your team up right make sure you have the right staff to coach them.

this is my opinion that people forget what is happening on your screen in 3d isn't actually what's happening in the game it's just a visual representation of what's happening and it can make it look terrible at times and this is solely the reason i now watch it in 2d watching in 3d just drives me mad

it is whats happening.

it is wahats happening.

Due to the limited amount of animations, what you see is not -exactly- what is happening, rather a close estimate in some cases. For instance, when a striker is one-on-one with the keeper and decides to go around him, you can see that the keeper is not throwing himself at his feet at all. Instead he just stands there, then facepalms.

Most of us will do a Y U NO TRY CATCH BALL STOPID, yelling at the screen.

The ME simply does not contain information that the Keeper of course tries to throw himself in front of the striker, so the 3d animations don't show that he does. There are no animations of the keeper doing so.

Another example: A long through ball flies over your defense while no striker lurks nearby. The ball bounces and your defender run towards it, then stops for no reason. The ball continues to bounce and your defender continues to walk and meanwhile a striker runs full throttle towards the ball, snatches it in front of a stupefied defender, approaches the keeper and scores.

Most of us will do a Y U NO RUN STOPID, yelling at the screen.

Here, what happened was that the striker was first to the ball due to the defender's lapse of concentration. But it certainly didn't happen that way. In such situations, the ME produces a chance created due to an alert striker and a sleeping defender, but when this happens the animations needs to compensate for an unusually large distance between the defender and the striker and it looks silly.

Another example: The ball is loose and your player runs faster than the nearest opponent, comes first to the ball and traps it nicely. The opponent then barges him in the back and the referee signals a free kick.... to the opponent... for being held back. Yellow card.

You begin to get it now, don't you?

You begin to get it now, don't you?

you might be right but such 'excuses' can justify any ME flaw, right. it just brings you to question whether it was tactical, player ability, poor ME or poor representation that lead to specific event. there's no need to defend ME in such manner because you can't be sure you're right.

defending needs big improvements.

Unfortunately we don't have the option of watching the match engine.

You begin to get it now, don't you?

I begin to get more angry that SI decided the match engine didn't need updated this year. As Mitja says, this is an explanation, but it certainly isn't justification. To use a tired analogy, it wouldn't be acceptable to say "It was only a close estimate of what the engine was actually doing" if you are killed by a bullet that travelled around a wall in MW3, so why should it be acceptable in FM?

you might be right but such 'excuses' can justify any ME flaw, right. it just brings you to question whether it was tactical, player ability, poor ME or poor representation that lead to specific event. there's no need to defend ME in such manner because you can't be sure you're right.

defending needs big improvements.

Oh I agree with you, and good observation that this would bring you to question everything you think you know. It does. I stopped becoming upset regarding silly stuff happening on the field and that is a good thing right?

It must be very very difficult to program these "players" to behave as humans. That is what they must do anyways.

Have you noticed that only one player closes down a player at a time? That's why defending is poor. It is also a fact that SI have mostly programmed good defending to be shown when there is a counter-attack. Good defending as a highlight is almost non-existent. This is something I miss.

yes there's no colective defending or closing down and that's probably the biggest issue. I'm sure Paul is more than capable to make it work, unfortunatly that wasn't a priority in last couple of years. I have a feeling that something is happening in the background though

My own team's defending hasn't been too bad, but I've often seen my players just run through the AI defence and get a one on one with a keeper. I'm not talking a through ball either, I mean a striker just runs through them without getting tackled.

My own team's defending hasn't been too bad, but I've often seen my players just run through the AI defence and get a one on one with a keeper. I'm not talking a through ball either, I mean a striker just runs through them without getting tackled.

That's what Defensive Mentality + Low Closing Down + Poor morale/motivation does...

This no attempt at marking at throw ins happens on a regular basis and usually leads to a goal.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This no attempt at marking at throw ins happens on a regular basis and usually leads to a goal.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

for god's sake, finally somebody, who recognized this BUG aswell. its horrible. imagine, how awful it is, when at least 50% of the goals, you concede, coming from throw ins...

That's what Defensive Mentality + Low Closing Down + Poor morale/motivation does...

having played 6 games with the new patch so far and can easily see huge improvements in this term. now my defence and midfield are rock solid and I can easily play with easy tackling, without having the fear, that my players wont tackle. so at least this problems seems to be solved or do you guys think it has something to do with the new morale system, as some of you mentioned before, that morale has a huge effect on defensive behaviour of a player...

Due to the limited amount of animations, what you see is not -exactly- what is happening, rather a close estimate in some cases. For instance, when a striker is one-on-one with the keeper and decides to go around him, you can see that the keeper is not throwing himself at his feet at all. Instead he just stands there, then facepalms.

Most of us will do a Y U NO TRY CATCH BALL STOPID, yelling at the screen.

The ME simply does not contain information that the Keeper of course tries to throw himself in front of the striker, so the 3d animations don't show that he does. There are no animations of the keeper doing so.

Another example: A long through ball flies over your defense while no striker lurks nearby. The ball bounces and your defender run towards it, then stops for no reason. The ball continues to bounce and your defender continues to walk and meanwhile a striker runs full throttle towards the ball, snatches it in front of a stupefied defender, approaches the keeper and scores.

Most of us will do a Y U NO RUN STOPID, yelling at the screen.

Here, what happened was that the striker was first to the ball due to the defender's lapse of concentration. But it certainly didn't happen that way. In such situations, the ME produces a chance created due to an alert striker and a sleeping defender, but when this happens the animations needs to compensate for an unusually large distance between the defender and the striker and it looks silly.

Another example: The ball is loose and your player runs faster than the nearest opponent, comes first to the ball and traps it nicely. The opponent then barges him in the back and the referee signals a free kick.... to the opponent... for being held back. Yellow card.

You begin to get it now, don't you?

yea i see what you mean but in these caes the match engine seems 99% of what is really happening, the bit about the defender not getting to the ball and walking that is lack of consetration just not put up in a more relism way, i would need to see a clip of this