Brazilian Tactics Discussion Thread

So, normally I put up a thread with a download link for my system but this year what I really want to do is get a discussion going instead of a "download this", because inevitably, half the posts say it sucks, the other half say it's awesome, and no real progress is made and the thread isn't interesting.

My Tactical Philosophy

First of all, I want to kind of establish my tactical philosophy in FM. I don't really believe in the "Plug-and-Play" tactics that pervade this forum. What happens is someone creates a tactic that works for their side against the way the AI is playing against them at the time, and then uploads. In my opinion the problem with that is, and the reason I think that you see some satisfied and some not satisfied with downloaded tactics, is that different gamers are managing teams with varying personnel, varying reputations, in varying leagues of varying levels, against varying opponents.

What works for Doncaster won't work for Arsenal, and vice versa, because the AI is approaching those two clubs differently. When setting up your tactics, I believe you have to anticipate the way the AI is going to play against you, and then make adjustments in match when necessary. The easiest way to do this is by simply changing the "Starting Strategy". If I am Manchester United playing at home against Blackpool, then I am probably going to start out in the Control strategy, but ready to switch to the Attack strategy if Control isn't properly breaking them down.

The tactics creator introduced in FM 10 has made this process easier, but this is basically how I've played the game since FM 2005 or 2006, when wwfan first began sharing his theories. I've followed his ideas on breaking down the opposition and I have not failed to overachieve with a club since. I make mistakes that are costly from time to time, and I don't really have it down to a science yet, but at least I'm on control of my own destiny as opposed to hoping some tactic I downloaded wins me the match.

So it's important to know this when reading my posts on tactics so you know where I'm coming from. However in this discussion I welcome all ideas, even if you disagree with my overall approach. I'm always looking to improve myself, and the exchange of ideas, especially contrasting ones, is what separates our species from others.

My Brazilian Fascination

My country hosted the 1994 World Cup and I was fortunate enough to see the USA play Brazil in Los Angeles on 4 July. At 15, I was just starting to get a grasp of the tactical side of football and watching Brazil was interesting to me. My program listed them as a 4-4-2, but trying to figure out who was playing where, especially up front, was impossible for me. Was Jorginho playing as a winger? Exactly which side was Bebeto playing on? The USA side was so well defined and undeviating, where as Brazil's attacking players where moving and making runs off the ball into space, it was really fun to watch. Even though there wasn't much scoring (only one goal), it was the first time I remember realizing that the 1-0 game can be incredibly interesting.

A couple of years later my youth club team played in one of the preliminary divisions of the Dallas Cup, a major youth competition that attracts clubs from England, Spain, Italy, Brazil, etc. That year the top division was won by EC Vitoria's youth squad. We watched them play a couple of times and it was the same style. Of course, they were Brazilian so their level of flair and skill was on another level from everyone else, but I was more interested in the way they moved and how complex it looked. As I began studying it, it turned out it was actually quite simple.

In this thread I would like to explore some of the basic Brazilian formations, 4-4-2 Box, the Brazilian take on the 3-5-2, and some other midfield variations. Eventually I'd also like to look at some real life tactics of the Brazilian National Team like Dunga's system during the last cycle, the 2002 World Cup winning squad, and the current system employed by Mano Menezes which sees the Seleçao moving toward the 4-2-3-1 that is taking the world by storm.

4-4-2 Box Midfield

So let's start with the 4-4-2 Box Midfield formation. This is the basic tactic in Brazil, like 4-4-2 in England, or the 4-3-3 in Holland. It's always the first tactic I create when I get my copy of the latest FM game. Below we see the formation:

It consists of a back four, a four-man midfield in the shape of a square or rectangle, and a forward pair.

The absence of wingers or wide midfielders is always the the thing that people notice first. This is a bit deceiving, as space being left out wide is intentional. Because the formation is setup this way, it draws the opposition out of those areas, leaving it open for unbalancing runs to be made by the Laterais, the Meias, and the Atacantes. Most will remember the dangerous runs made in South Africa by Michel Bastos and Maicon for the Brazilian National Team, as well as Robinho roaming from left to right.

Below is a diagram some of the movement patterns:

And here we see how the formation shifts almost to a 4-3-3/3-4-3 shape during an attack down the right:

I am currently using this formation with Veranópolis in a lower league game in Brazil. I'll put some of the basics of how I'm setup in the next post.

You can set up the 4-4-2 Box in any number of ways, but in just general game play, I prefer using formations that the AI has available to them. The default 4-4-2 Box tactic in FM has a back four, two defensive midfielders, two central midfielders, and two strikers. I set up my roles like so:

GK: Sweeper Keeper

DR: Wingback

DCR: Central Defender

DCL: Central Defender

DL: Wingback

DMR: Deep Lying Playmaker

DML: Defensive Midfielder

MCR: Central Midfielder

MCL: Advanced Playmaker

STCR: Target Man

STCL: Complete Forward

The Team Settings are as follows:

Passing Style: Shorter

Creative Freedom: More Disciplined

Closing Down: Default

Tackling: Default

Marking: Default (I prefer Zonal, but only use it with big teams)

Crossing: Default

Roaming: More Roaming

I also made some adjustments. The tactics creator will default one of the playmaker roles and the target man to role to the "Primary Playmaker" and "Primary Target Man" respectively. I manually set both of those to None, because I don't like the idea of play being forced to one or two players. Although, this is not altogether unrealistic and I may do this when I look into the real life tactics.

I've also made sure that both Meias are free to roam and have the Move into Channels instruction so that they explore the space out wide.

Both Atacantes and Volantes are defaulted to hold up the ball, but I only want the Atacante Fixo (target man role) and the Volante with the Deep Lying Playmaker role to hold up play, so I set the other two players to no manually.

Crosses are also defaulted to be aimed at the Target Man, so I manually set them to "Mixed" so that the players look for the best option instead.

Just as a preference, I set every players Long Shots to zero, also. If I have a player with a 15+ rating in Long Shots then I will manually set his to Mixed at the match screen, but there is nothing I hate more than watching a build up go for naught because some numpty launches a hopeful ball out of the stadium.

Finally, I set my Goleiro Distribution to Defender Collect and to Distribute the ball to the Lateral Direito (DR). This way he doesn't just hoof the ball up the park and we keep possession and get build up play started.

I have begun an experiment with the player roles recently. I do not believe that the "Automatic" role that is given to fullbacks by default was designed with this system in mind. I need my fullbacks to be more aggressive since they essentially are the wingers in this system. Therefore, what I have done is to create three tactics that I alternate between depending on what Starting Strategy I want to employ.

The standard setup is for the Standard, Counter, and Control strategies. The Laterals are given Attack roles, and one of the Meias are set to support to compensate. With this I go with a Very Fluid style:

The attack setup is for when I go Attack or Overload. Again, Laterals are set with attack roles, as well as both Meias. Again, I use a Very Fluid style:

The defend setup is for the Defend and Contain strategies. The Laterals have been set to supporting roles, so that they still get forward but are more cautious. Both Volantes are set to defend, and one Meia is on support. For this I use the Fluid style:

So far the results are promising but I want to experiment further before I say it's a success. In my next post I'll probably put up some in game screenies.

Nice thread. Will follow closely as I only play in Brazil with my home team Grêmio. As soon as they confirm Ronaldinho (salaries have been set, we just need Milan to release him) I will put him on Grêmio and start a new game. Not sure how I would play him with this formation however... My GK will be Victor, RB Gabriel, centerbacks will be Mario Fernandes and Paulão, LB Lúcio. Both DCM will be Fabio Rochemback and Adílson. The midfielders would be Douglas and Ronaldinho and Jonas in the attack alongside a rotation of Borges/André Lima.

Hi, I really hope this thread can run for a long time - I like this philosophy and have used one of your earlier tactic sets! KUTGW!

Great post Uncle_Sam as usual. This 4-2-2-2 box setup is very good formation in Brazil, because teams usually don't play with wide midfielders, but I found this formation quite vulnerable down the flanks in other leagues. I'm currently trying to set-up my team to play like Villarreal do. They also use two holders and two meias, but without the ball the meias watch the flanks and don't stay in the centre of the pitch. I think this simple movement cannot be replicated correctly in the new FM's (no wibble/wobble and side arrows ).

DJLM82 - I´ve just started my new FM career and hopefully someday I will manage Gremio too . Anyway I think playing lazy Ronaldinho as a Meia in this formations will require super hard working players to back him up.

Damn fine stuff again Uncle_Sam

Nice thread. Will follow closely as I only play in Brazil with my home team Grêmio. As soon as they confirm Ronaldinho (salaries have been set, we just need Milan to release him) I will put him on Grêmio and start a new game. Not sure how I would play him with this formation however... My GK will be Victor, RB Gabriel, centerbacks will be Mario Fernandes and Paulão, LB Lúcio. Both DCM will be Fabio Rochemback and Adílson. The midfielders would be Douglas and Ronaldinho and Jonas in the attack alongside a rotation of Borges/André Lima.

I've never had Ronaldinho in FM, so i'm not sure exactly where I would play him. I can say that in 2006 when Brazil played a box midfield he was a Meia, and that's probably where I would play him. He has played up front occasionally so in a pinch I might use him as the second striker.

Hi, I really hope this thread can run for a long time - I like this philosophy and have used one of your earlier tactic sets! KUTGW!

I hope so to, because I'd love to get ideas on how to make my philosophy better.

Great post Uncle_Sam as usual. This 4-2-2-2 box setup is very good formation in Brazil, because teams usually don't play with wide midfielders, but I found this formation quite vulnerable down the flanks in other leagues. I'm currently trying to set-up my team to play like Villarreal do. They also use two holders and two meias, but without the ball the meias watch the flanks and don't stay in the centre of the pitch. I think this simple movement cannot be replicated correctly in the new FM's (no wibble/wobble and side arrows ).

DJLM82 - I´ve just started my new FM career and hopefully someday I will manage Gremio too . Anyway I think playing lazy Ronaldinho as a Meia in this formations will require super hard working players to back him up.

I've used the 4-2-2-2 in other leagues and done well with it. And in FM in Brazil you will play against a wide variety of tactics. 4-2-2-2, 4-4-2, 4-1-2-1-2 (narrow and wide), 3-5-2, 5-3-2, 4-3-3. It's very rare that you will find a formation in FM in some other country that you won't find in Brazil. For me the key is properly countering your opposition with your starting strategy. If you can do that, you can pretty much win with just about any formation in my opinion. I prefer the 4-2-2-2 because I love the football it produces. The combinations through the middle can be beautiful, and you also get the overlapping runs from the wingbacks. It's awesome.

Damn fine stuff again Uncle_Sam

Thanks mate. I love reading your stuff and I might not have even started this thread last night but I was inspired reading through your lower league thread.

I've used the 4-2-2-2 in other leagues and done well with it. And in FM in Brazil you will play against a wide variety of tactics. 4-2-2-2, 4-4-2, 4-1-2-1-2 (narrow and wide), 3-5-2, 5-3-2, 4-3-3. It's very rare that you will find a formation in FM in some other country that you won't find in Brazil. For me the key is properly countering your opposition with your starting strategy. If you can do that, you can pretty much win with just about any formation in my opinion. I prefer the 4-2-2-2 because I love the football it produces. The combinations through the middle can be beautiful, and you also get the overlapping runs from the wingbacks. It's awesome.

True, in Brazil you can find many formations, but the formations deploying wide mids are very rare. I was managing Santa Cruz in Brazilian Serie D and nobody played with wide mids or wingers against me. But when I was managing in South Corea I had serious problems with this 4-2-2-2 setup. As you know to get to work this formation you need attacking fullbacks and also the meias has to be creative, good with the ball etc. (in other words they aren't very good in doing the defensive work). The result is that the flanks are incredibly vulnerable and the two holders can't be everywhere. Maybe my experience was enhanced by the fact that in the version 11.1 great amount of goals was scored from the crosses. Anyway I share your love for this formation, the combinations through the middle can be really beautiful.

OK, just had a couple of nice goals from attacking combos in my last game:

I was a pretty big favorite over Cascavel, and I'm at home, so I started out with the Attack strategy. It only took three minutes for this well-worked goal:

It starts off with a free kick that my center back plays out to my left back.

The left back attacks the flank with the dribble. The striker takes up an advanced position and the attacking midfielder slides over to produce an attacking triangle.

The opposing defender slides over to cut off the passing lane to the striker, so the left back plays the ball to the attacking midfielder. Also, notice the fullback on the weak side starting to creep up into the open space.

To be continued in the next post...

After receiving the pass, the attacking midfielder plays it strait away to the striker. The left back starts an overlapping run and you see that both players are past the defender, and if they so choose they have a 2v1 against the opponents right fullback. The striker decides to do something else though.

The striker starts to dribble across the mouth of the 18. My guess is he sees that the left is starting to clog up and he wants to switch the point of attack. You can see that his dribble has caused the entire defense to begin crowding his immediate area. He still has an attacking triangle with the other striker and the fullback, as well as both midfielders positioned for a drop, but he's got his eye on all that space on the right.

The striker lays the ball out perfectly, the right back is able to run onto the ball in a lethal position. It's like a nature show when a wildebeest wonders too far away from the herd, there can be only one outcome now...

Uncle_Sam

Will you be releasing a set of these tactics in the future?

Steve

Maybe, but I doubt it. I've given pretty much everything needed to recreate it with the tactics creator, and hopefully as people build it themselves they will have a better understanding of how the system works and perhaps even provide their own input.

we are waitiing those interesting tactics to be relesed.

Well you really don't have to wait if you don't want to, everything you need to create it is in the first couple of posts.

Fantastic thread.

Brazil play an iconic brand of football known throughout the world for it's flair and creativity.

A couple of interesting articles would accompany this thread well:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/jun/24/the-question-brazil-4-2-3-1

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/03/analysing-brazils-fluid-system-at-close-quarters/

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2009/11/14/brazil-a-4-2-3-1-or-a-midfield-diamond-neither/

Interestingly I am currently enjoying two savegames, one with Vasco de Gama and the other with West Ham.

The Vasco savegame is all about creating a Brazilian style of football whilst getting the National job and taking them to the World Cup before hopping across the pond to Europe and instilling my ways into a top side.

My favourite Brazilian system is an attacking and fluid diamond with attacking wingbacks. In FM the shape is 2-3-2-1-2 i.e. DC, DC, WBR, WBL, DMC, MC, MC, AMC, FC, FC.

Over my first 4 seasons this has evolved slightly due to a young talent coming through my youth team who is an AML. I made the strikeforce lopsided and compensated by pulling back the WBR to DR and pulling the MCR to MR.

The West Ham save was all about having another go at a WHU 4-4-2 and bringing the team to life. Using the Brazil December 2010 start date, I managed to take over West Ham when they were bottom of the league at Christmas.

Being bottom of the table I played a rigid, counter 4-4-2. Worked like a dream and I saved them from the drop and won the FA Cup. Second season it worked just as well and I got to the League Cup and UEFA Cup semis, pipped Chelsea to 4th and once again won the FA Cup.

The next season was a disaster. My success had caught up with me and teams shut up shop when they played me. Very hard to counter when the other side don't attack.

Slightly overcompensated for this by adopting an attacking and fluid 4-4-2. Which improved things but the midfield was regularly dominated and the defence was aweful.

The next season I brought in Charlie Adams who was an excellent second striker (playing at AMCR) and pulled Parker back to DMC. This got me back to performing at a similar level to the previous season. Looking at how to improve I brought in Olsson as a left wingback and pushed Barrera to AML.

The result of this was that I was playing essentially the same system with both Vasco and West Ham although had come to the system through two very different routes.

In more detail my system looks like this:

GK: Sweeper Keeper - Defend

DR: Wingback - Support

DCR: Ball Playing Centreback - Defend

DCL: Ball Playing Centreback - Defend

WBL: Wingback - Attack

DMC: Anchorman - Defend

MCL: Box-to-Box midfielder - Support

MR: Defensive Winger - Support

AML: Inside Forward - Attack

AMCR: Trequartista - Attack

FCL: Poacher - Attack

Fluid & Attack

Formation: You tell me.

Still working on getting that inside forward right. Looking at the regen I have with Vasco he is going to be the main goalscorer of the side in years to come.

Coincidentally, the system I have got to does look oddly similar to those descirbed in the articles above.

I'm glad you post in here SBMII. I remember your thread at FM:B where you created a Brazilian diamond formation for FM 05 or 06. If I'm remembering correctly I posted in there as well trying to create a box formation. I need to see if I can dig that thread up.

Glad to see you're still trying to get Brazilian tactics to work in FM like me. What you're working on there looks pretty crazy, but actually pretty similar to what Menezes is doing right now. Eventually I want to get to his formation in this thread.

fantastic thread yet again Uncle_Sam, will keep an eye on this and try my hand at the box when i have room to expriment, and like I said in an other thread, im trying to implement some of the attacking movement patterns of the box on my 4-3-1-2 tactic

fantastic thread yet again Uncle_Sam, will keep an eye on this and try my hand at the box when i have room to expriment, and like I said in an other thread, im trying to implement some of the attacking movement patterns of the box on my 4-3-1-2 tactic

One of the tactics I hoped to eventually look at was the 4-3-1-2 because in Brazil there have been some club managers (Muricy Ramalho for one) experiment with 3 Volantes. My starting point was going to be 3 MCs and 1 AMC (the default 4-3-1-2 in the game), with the MC a deep lying playmaker with a defensive duty, and the MCR and MCL as ball winning midfielders with support roles.

Just finished a great season with Veranopolis in the Brazilian Serie E. Won every game, except a 1-0 loss in a game where I battered their goal. Outscored the opposition 55-6. Granted, most of them were quite poor. I'm going to go one year in Serie D with the 4-2-2-2 and then start looking at how the box midfield morphs into a 3-5-2.

Very interesting thread I have been looking to play in Brazil but wanted to see if a thread popped up that would be helpful in creating a box formation. Thanks for a good read.

Excellent thread.

I used the 4-2-2-2 box system in a Brazilian save last year it worked really well with some good football being played. However this formation doesn't seem to work that well in Briitish leagues, I always struggle with it. Any ideas why this happens? is it the players? or doesn't this system suit the english leagues?

Good work here bro, are you going to talk about other classic brazilian tactics?

Excellent thread.

I used the 4-2-2-2 box system in a Brazilian save last year it worked really well with some good football being played. However this formation doesn't seem to work that well in Briitish leagues, I always struggle with it. Any ideas why this happens? is it the players? or doesn't this system suit the english leagues?

The reason it will struggle with a flat 4-4-2 is that the Meias don't get out and help the Laterais on the flanks the way they do in real life, so you get 1v2s out there when the opposing fullback overlaps. I haven't done a lot of experimenting with how to remedy this, but my first idea is just to raise Meias' closing down. I wouldn't have done that before since I only created tactic and switched between Starting Strategy, but it's something I may try out now that I'm rolling with this 3-tactic system.

Good work here bro, are you going to talk about other classic brazilian tactics?

Yea, the plan is to first go over some of the basic formation, 3-5-2, 4-4-2 Diamond, but then I really want to look at what Parreira did in 94 and then what he did in 06 and how that was different. Then Scolari's tactics in 02, Dunga's system from this past cycle, and then what Menezes is doing now.

Uncle Sam, i always enjoy reading your tctical insight and we both share an interest in the box formation. You may recall a thread i started some time ago.

I would however love to hear your tactical insight into the Marcelo Bielsa Chile formation set. A highly unique system in itself. Pm me your thoughts buddy.

Bielsa's Chile is fascinating. Nobody goes for it like they do. I think it could probably be done in FM but you will leak goals. Chile alternates between 3 and 4 in the back depending on how many the opponent plays up front.

the brazilians do not like the Brazilian Style... Only you like lol

Nowadays, the Brazilian soccer is pragmatic and a little boring

the brazilians do not like the Brazilian Style... Only you like lol

Nowadays, the Brazilian soccer is pragmatic and a little boring

Ha, there is an element of truth to that. They are more focused on being organized then ever, at least generally speaking. But that's part of the fascination for me. They play rigidly, yet their fullbacks bomb forward like wingers. They play patiently in possession, but they can attack with lightning speed. There really is nothing like brazilian tactics. Noone gives them the credit they deserve.

Great bit of literature in this thread.

I was playing a box tactic with Sao Caetano in Brazil, with 2 DM's, 2 AM's and 2 ST's. I got some good results including a win over Sao Paolo and a draw against Santos. I came 3rd in the Sao Paolo state championship which I was pleased with but got blown away by Palmeiras in the play-offs.

I didn't carry on with that save after the first half of the season but after having a read of this thread I might go back to it and try and incorporate a few of your points into my tactic.

Cheers for the time and effort.

I'm going to experiment with this with my Sevilla save. So many teams in Spain play 4-2-3-1 with lots of use of wingers and attacking full backs. This may be a defensive disaster, but should dominate possession in midfield, so hopefully I should be able to create enough chances to still win games.

EDIT: Epic fail. All the opposition needs to to is get the ball wide and their winger and attacking full back out number my full back 2-1. The defensive players will go out in an attempt to close down the space, but can't get there in time. The middle is very congested, and often the opposition crosses are cleared, but they easily retain possession and get it wide again.

I'm also finding the gap between the MC's and the forwards is too large, so my MC's resort to longer passes forward, easily swept up by DC's. I tried moving them to AMC, but then the midfield was to far spread out and the opposition's 2 MC's seem to be able to intercept a lot of the passes forward from the DM's. The full backs do over decent width, but when countered my defense is left terribly exposed down the wing. I'm not sure I can make this work against 4-2-3-1. Any suggestions?

Ha, there is an element of truth to that. They are more focused on being organized then ever, at least generally speaking. But that's part of the fascination for me. They play rigidly, yet their fullbacks bomb forward like wingers. They play patiently in possession, but they can attack with lightning speed. There really is nothing like brazilian tactics. Noone gives them the credit they deserve.

I didn't know that people of others country like so much the brazilian style. Dunga was the worst coach that we had! The most beautiful team in the last year was Santos with Neymar, Ganso and Robinho... Some games we sleep seeing. But you're right: We don't used to play with wingers but our fullbacks attack all the time. Alessandro (Corinthians), Léo Moura (Flamengo), Juan (Flamengo) are some examples

OK, I have decided to now try out a tactic with 3 Volantes (holding midfielders):

My Vernapolis side just got promoted to the Brazilian Serie C. It's a step up in competition, and most of the sides will be far superior. Having a defensive-oriented tactic might be the key to staying up.

There are a couple of ways to do this using the default formations in FM, the one I'm choosing is the 4-3-1-2, but you also probably use the 4-1-2-1-2, but I'll be visiting that formation later.

This setup has gained some momentum in Brazil in recent years, with Muricy Ramalho employing it at multiple clubs. Below you see a rough idea of how the midfield players and the wingbacks move in this system:

That diagram is an oversimplification, but the idea is that the front three are your creative players who work to breakdown the opposing defense, with the the three volantes providing enough defensive presence to allow them to focus on attack. The width is provided by the wingbacks.

Below is how I have the formation setup with player roles and duties:

GK: Sweeper Keeper-Default

DR: Wingback-Attack (Support for the defensive strategies)

DCR: Central Defender-Defend

DCL: Central Defender-Defend

DL: Wingback-Attack (Support for the defensive strategies)

MCR: Ball Winning Midfielder - Support

MC: Deep Lying Playmaker - Defend

MCL: Ball Winning Midfielder - Support

AMC: Attacking Midfielder - Attack

STCR: Target Man - Attack

STCL: Complete Forward - Support

As you can see, even though the outside central midfielders are on supporting duties, they are still given the role of Ball Winning Midfielders so they function as Volantes.

Nice thread Uncle_Sam, two quick questions:

Playing as Veranopolis, how has your tactic fared against the two heavyweights of the Campeonato Gaucho - Inter and Gremio?

Secondly, what's your views on the defensive line? Domestically, Brazilian clubs often play quite deep which gives the meias alot of ground to run into.

Finally, regarding earlier posts about Ronaldinho, irl it is likely he will play in as the second striker at Flamengo.

Nice thread Uncle_Sam, two quick questions:

Playing as Veranopolis, how has your tactic fared against the two heavyweights of the Campeonato Gaucho - Inter and Gremio?

Secondly, what's your views on the defensive line? Domestically, Brazilian clubs often play quite deep which gives the meias alot of ground to run into.

Finally, regarding earlier posts about Ronaldinho, irl it is likely he will play in as the second striker at Flamengo.

It's actually done pretty well against Inter and Gremio. Against Gremio, I have one win, three draws, and four losses. Against Inter, I have two draws and two losses. Playing against giants like that I would say those are acceptable results. The win against Gremio was in the Closing Stage final, so it was probably the biggest win in club history. They got me in the overall final, but it was still pretty awesome.

And with the defensive line, I pretty much just go with the default setting. I have planned on setting the Zagueiros to the "Cover" role, but I've been kind of fearful of messing with success. It's still a good idea to consider, especially with the 4-2-2-2, because you have the two holding midfielders right there.

EDIT: Oh, and with Ronaldinho, I honestly have no idea. I think if I was the manager I would put him up front as the second striker in the beginning because you aren't quite sure how he will re-adapt to the Brazilian game and he will hurt you less up front I think. The vision and penetrating ability he displayed in his prime make him an ideal midfield player obviously, but again, you aren't sure if he will be able to recapture that. He's been in Europe for several years now.

Keep up the good work Uncle Sam but I have a question ... What kind of shouts do you use during the game ?

None. I fear the shouts because they mess with the instructions. I'm sure they can be used with great effect, but I don't.

I take that back, I will use them when I change starting strategies, or when I change between tactics.

So after a very successful campaign with the 4-3-1-2 system with 3 volantes, which included another promotion and led to a bigger job at Atletico Goianense, I will be implementing the Brazilian version of the 3-5-2. For this system, clubs will simply drop a Volante into the back line:

This allows the Laterais to push higher up the pitch, and relaxes their defensive responsibilities:

The box midfield is very versatile and can morph into several different looks. This is just another example of that.

,knjhu,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Good work Uncle sam.Tried playing the box,it worked a charm with my spurs team.Dominating the EPL.

Very interesting thread indeed Uncle Sam. Keep up the good work.

As always your understanding for this tactic is beyond me! I do believe that you said you use this tactic in America?

Unfortuatly the tactic's part of FM deson't give us total control of our players, just sliders, which I find stupid I think there needs to be an overhaul to the tactic side of FM to gove us total control of what we want our players to do...

This is the one thread I always look forward to reading for any version of FM. I've discussed this at lengths with you before Uncle Sam and you know I'm a bit fan of this and what you write. Another great thread

Love your posts UncleSAm but sadly I've never been succesful implementing a 4-2-2-2. That is up until now.

Intrigued by this thread I decided to start a new game with Blackburn to test the tactic. After some major wheeling and dealing the following line up is currently in second position in the EPL after 23 matches in the first season.

I mainly stuck to your recomendations concerning tactics UncleSam but made the MCL an Central Midfielder Attack as well and that seems to be working better as linking up between Attack and midfield is smoother now. My FCl is set as a targetman Support and my Fcr is set as a Advanced forward attack. Also Long shots is set to rarely for everyone in the team. Also I set both CBs to move into channels which means they'll sit wide when in possesion and form a sort of 3 man d-line with the right DMC and pick up any wingers or strikers who try to exploit the open space on the flanks.

The key to success has been a water tight defence. With Bassong and Samba proving to be an impressive pairing, both being tall and fast and good tacklers. They're arial ability is extremely important as the opposition get's a lot of crosses in but they handle almost all of them together with N'Zonsi. Also they score a fair share of goals from set pieces which is important as I've been struggling to score in game especially against the top teams. I'm currently on a 10 match unbeaten run which will likely come to an end soon as I've got some though away games coming.

nice work uncle sam. got directed to this thread because i'm trying to set up a 4-2-2-2.

pre-season is going pretty well, havent conceded a goal and like the deeper dline due to having the 2xdmc.

i've set up my team as follows:

attacking/v.rigid (want defenders to defend, dont see the need thus far of width to attack and anyway my strikers and mcs often drift wide)

2xfb defend

cover/stopper

dmc1: anchor man/defend

dmc2: dm/support. also have him running sometimes as he has good dribbling and decisions stats.

2xcentral midfielders/attack (one of the reasons for me adopting this system was that i was playing a 442 with a huge gap between midfield and strikers, and with these mc settings i find that there is no real gap and the mcs play in the strikers very well)

2xstr poacher.

i have soooo little tactical nous, though i understand the FM basics, had no idea this was a brazilin tactic. just suits me having 2xdestroyers protecting te backline and 2xmcs who are good at getting the ball to the strikers in dangerous positions.

i'm still looking for 1 more quality mc and am not sure what attributes i need. well, i have a whole host: off the ball, composure, ability to pick out a pass, ability to be dangerous in the box etc but i cant find anyone really who has everything. apart from one guy with ppms that would go against my tactic.

was interested too to read your thoughts on 4-3-1-2. i was playing this previously but wasnt sure of the logicc of having 3xdestroyers in central midfield. what i found is that the destroyers tried to pick out the forwards but naturally lacking creativity and passing stats they were a tad profligate.

if i could grasp this tactic i might consider going back to it. interesting your take on it: in italy it's common (there's a great thread about this) but the primary playmaker is the amc who is set to trequartista, not the central midfielder, something i never considered.

wont dwell on the 4-3-1-2 for now because i've almost finished pre-season with my 4222 and am determined to give it a good go, not change system and go back to the start again...........

The setup I have most recently used with the box midfield is this:

Philosophy: Very Fluid

Strategy: **I change this depending on the situation**

Passing: Shorter

Creative Freedom: More Disciplined

Closing Down: Stand-off More

Tackling: Default

Marking: Zonal

Crossing: Default

Roaming: More Roaming

GK: Sweeper Keeper

DR: Wingback (Automatic)

DCR: Central Defender (Defend)

DCL: Central Defender (Defend)

DL: Wingback (Automatic)

DMCR: Anchor Man (Defend)

DMCL: Defensive Midfielder (Support)

MCR: Central Midfielder (Attack)

MCL: Advanced Playmaker (Attack)

FCR: Complete Forward (Support)

FCL: Advanced Forward (Attack)

I have never really played with the DCs setup, but there is no reason your approach wouldn't work I don't think.

I also set everyone's long shots to rarely because I don't like seeing a bunch of hopeful efforts with no chance. Before a game, if I have a player with 16+ or so in long shots I might set his to mixed.

Also, I've ticked counter attack so that it is always on no matter what strategy I employ. I've also ticked time wasting and set it to 10 (or whatever right in the middle is). I've found if it's set too high that players doddle on the ball until it is taken from their feet, and if it's set too low they try a bunch of stupid passes.

One more personal preference is I manually set the Playmakers/Target Man to none. I don't like the idea of the ball being forced to someone, but I like the instructions for the advanced playmaker.

The setup I have most recently used with the box midfield is this:

Philosophy: Very Fluid

Strategy: **I change this depending on the situation**

Passing: Shorter

Creative Freedom: More Disciplined

Closing Down: Stand-off More

Tackling: Default

Marking: Zonal

Crossing: Default

Roaming: More Roaming

GK: Sweeper Keeper

DR: Wingback (Automatic)

DCR: Central Defender (Defend)

DCL: Central Defender (Defend)

DL: Wingback (Automatic)

DMCR: Anchor Man (Defend)

DMCL: Defensive Midfielder (Support)

MCR: Central Midfielder (Attack)

MCL: Advanced Playmaker (Attack)

FCR: Complete Forward (Support)

FCL: Advanced Forward (Attack)

I have never really played with the DCs setup, but there is no reason your approach wouldn't work I don't think.

I also set everyone's long shots to rarely because I don't like seeing a bunch of hopeful efforts with no chance. Before a game, if I have a player with 16+ or so in long shots I might set his to mixed.

Also, I've ticked counter attack so that it is always on no matter what strategy I employ. I've also ticked time wasting and set it to 10 (or whatever right in the middle is). I've found if it's set too high that players doddle on the ball until it is taken from their feet, and if it's set too low they try a bunch of stupid passes.

One more personal preference is I manually set the Playmakers/Target Man to none. I don't like the idea of the ball being forced to someone, but I like the instructions for the advanced playmaker.

interesting. likewise i dont set a primary playmaker, both the mcs can create. most of my instruction differ to yours but that's personal preference. i like v.rigid, dont like my fullbacks to attack i have 4 attacking players and one support and this is enough i've seen to get the ball into dangerous posirtions and have players in and around the oppsition's box.

what would you say are the key attributes for a central midfielder/attack?

i think good composure (so he's not under pressure and can pick out a decent pass), attacking stats, off the ball to be picked out in space, and decent shooting attributes. i really cant find one player i like who wont break the bank or my wage structure so i'll need to compromise somewhere. what's your take on the key attributes needed for this position? basically i expect my mcs to create and also get into goalscoring positions.

As for the Meia attributes, The main ones are Dribbling, Passing, Technique, Creativity, Decisions, Off the Ball, Teamwork. It's also good to have flair, pace, workrate, and I look for determination in all of my players.

If you are on a budget (which I usually am), you can also have contrasting players. One who is the better passer and one who is better at creating with the dribble. For the passer you would want high attributes in passing and decisions, and the dribbler should have good dribbling, creativity, flair, and probably pace.

If you are on a budget (which I usually am), you can also have contrasting players. One who is the better passer and one who is better at creating with the dribble. For the passer you would want high attributes in passing and decisions, and the dribbler should have good dribbling, creativity, flair, and probably pace.

must admit i had considered having contrasting players it might work well.... because i dont like to break my wage structure and my team hasnt an overly high rep so i'm limited in who i can buy. nobody out there ticks all the boxes.

regarding your 4312 how did you get over having 3x destroyers as they'll have to get the ball to the front 3. destroyers dont tend to have creativity so do you rely on short simple passing and are the front 3 close enough to receive? i'm tempted to experiment, again, with this system.

my other question was why did you use the MCC for primary playmaker, not the AMC?