Football Manager 09 - the side project?

Edited... as my suspicions have been confirmed as being wrong. I'd also like to say after playing demo, although there are some glaring issues, and they are very annoying, I think the game does have potential.

FM and FML are totally separate. No resources are pulled from one or the other.

FM & FMLive have seperate development teams.

The game isn't perfect (there are the usual bundle of bugs that are always sorted out by a patch), but people citing FM2009 as an 'unmitigated disaster' is ridiculous (add to that the fans fav 'riddled with bugs').

Is it frustrating these bugs were not fixed prior to the release of the demo? Yeah sure, but maybe its my eternal positivity and outlook that allows me to play the game without breaking down in a flood of tears and finding a corner to sit in while I rock backwards and forwards very slowly.

I think its a little insulting to say FM09 is a side project.

Are you going to post this in every thread mate?

No, that's completely wrong.

The game isn't perfect (there are the usual bundle of bugs that are always sorted out by a patch), but people citing FM2009 as an 'unmitigated disaster' is ridiculous (add to that the fans fav 'riddled with bugs').

Is it frustrating these bugs were not fixed prior to the release of the demo? Yeah sure, but maybe its my eternal positivity and outlook that allows me to play the game without breaking down in a flood of tears and finding a corner to sit in while I rock backwards and forwards very slowly.

I think its a little insulting to say FM09 is a side project.

Yeah, you've got that right it's pretty much far from perfect. The non-stop injuries alone make it almost unplayable. Not too mention the many people suffering from game breaking technical issues. And for what? Some 3-d engine which would look out of place for Sensible Soccer for the Snes. This is just my opnion of course but I'm sure many would agree releasing a game with such glaring, fundamental issues is always going to be an unmitigated disaster.

The game isn't perfect (there are the usual bundle of bugs that are always sorted out by a patch), but people citing FM2009 as an 'unmitigated disaster' is ridiculous (add to that the fans fav 'riddled with bugs').

Is it frustrating these bugs were not fixed prior to the release of the demo? Yeah sure, but maybe its my eternal positivity and outlook that allows me to play the game without breaking down in a flood of tears and finding a corner to sit in while I rock backwards and forwards very slowly.

I think its a little insulting to say FM09 is a side project.

Yeah but then why should people fork out 30 odd pound for a game that is far from finished. I am pretty sure there are people out there who haven't got the internet and may not be aware of patches, personally they are the ones I feel sorry for.

Also ignoring the fact the game is bugged, as so many people are doing, doesn't make the problems go away it just enhances them, SI have to be informed that there are issues with their game and they need fixing, if we all ignored the bugs, SI wouldn't feel the need for a patch and we'd end up with a vastly inferior product as compare to previous FM's.

We are as much responsible for logging all these bugs in the bugs forum as the testers who missed some of these glaring issues.

Ignoring the bugs is a very big mistake.

As for the side project it is a known fact that FMLive is seperate from FM09, but I have my suspicions as to how many of the testers were commited to testing FM09, as opposed to playing FM Live all day.

Pfft. It doesn't sound as bad as the 08 demo, which was a lot, lot worse.

Pfft. It doesn't sound as bad as the 08 demo, which was a lot, lot worse.

If you haven't played this demo, it's as bad as the CM4 demo imo.

Yep, so bad that I uninstalled it.

Darth is now doing damage control onboard the Death Star himself?

Just to discount the original posters premise - the FML and FM PC development teams are entirely seperate and FM PC's is actually somewhat larger than the development team on FML.

I realise that some people will find the 3d view unappealing however to be honest I'm very impressed with what has been achieved in the time available (I don't work on FM PC these days instead being kept busy with FMH PSP, so I play FM PC in the same way you chaps do at the moment) - it was never going to achieve the level of FIFA/PES in its first iteration*, but as a tool to assist your imagination and show where your tactics are/aren't working I think it works very well.

The team will as always work hard supporting the product and ensuring that it continues to evolve and that any niggles either with video card compatibility or gameplay itself are worked out as promptly as possible.

*And bear in mind that zooming in for close up images of players freckles was never going to happen because of licencing issues etc. - this is meant as a tactical tool first and foremost.

Thats all well and good but what about the other issues within the game?

Like Marc says, he works on FMH now. How can he comment on the things he doesn't involve himself with?

Blimey... how people can call '09 a disaster is beyond me... shesh... some people like to stamp their feet though (no offence). Perhaps because they are dissapointed, but it can be a little more constructive no?

Marc - is there a seperate dev team, off-site and under the umbrella of a seperate studio, that handles FM PSP (as, I think, there was in the past) and you contribute to that? from the SI office?

To comment on the match engine - I dont think people really expected FIFA/PES (and I'm sure you are jesting) but it is a little, dated? Unfinished? Lacking some basic polish? I was under the impression it'd been worked on for a while and would be more than a 'tool' it has to entertain and not break the feeling of watching a match (albeit a basic one to start with).

Ah, interesting! Thanks for the info Marc. Reply is much appreciated on the lords day of rest.

Lol disaster. Perfect example of group polarization.

Cullen, why would SI treat FM 09 as a side project when it is one of SEGA's biggest selling games (and the reason SI is winning award after award) in favour of FM Live which is going into a relatively untested market?

That would be silly.

Wouldn't jump into conclusions like that. It's always been the same, Buggy Demo > Patch to address major issues > Patch to update rosters and address all bugs.

Sucks, I know but I wouldn't judge the game by its demo. They don't represent the quality of the final product.

Cullen, why would SI treat FM 09 as a side project when it is one of SEGA's biggest selling games (and the reason SI is winning award after award) in favour of FM Live which is going into a relatively untested market?

That would be silly.

Well, in my humble opinion, FM Live has the potential to be a bigger money spinner (£8.99 per month or whatever it is, it all adds up) and it's only natural you'll try maximise this. Unfortunately, it's to the detriment of the game we all love.

i dont think no one has the right to call it a side project i love fm im just gutted i cant play it

i dont think no one has the right to call it a side project i love fm im just gutted i cant play it

I'm gutted as well mate. I had high hopes for the demo but this injury nonsense has put me right off, I've even uninstalled the demo as it's unplayable in its current state.

Well, in my humble opinion, FM Live has the potential to be a bigger money spinner (£8.99 per month or whatever it is, it all adds up) and it's only natural you'll try maximise this. Unfortunately, it's to the detriment of the game we all love.

You're talking from the wrong end of your body, the FML devs were all recruited specifically for FML except Ov who hasn't been involved in FM for years.

The only effect FML has had on FM is to get the ME tested by real people on a scale that's never happened before.

We haven't yet seen all the benefits of that but we will, especially when the 3D version hits FML eventually.

FML will produce extra revenue if all goes well which will also benefit FM.

I've got to say - the 3d match engine will really help me get into games with teams with whom I have little or no knowledge (or access to). I love Leeds, but in Australia the chances of seeing them play are nil.

Sure, it's not Crysis standard, but it helps put a visualisation to the text - sometimes it just feels too linear and frustrating. With the graphics engine, you can see what is going on and (I'm assuming) get more out of the game. I am certainly enjoying the lesser games, because I can see crisp passing and good tactical play.

There are flaws - true, and I'm surprised some of them got past testing. As a bit-part software developer I can entirely understand that no matter what you do, bugs will occur - at this late stage in development it is about fixing the most crucial ones and minimising the impact on the overall game play. We don't know if a week ago developers stumbled upon a bug that made players invert and run around on their heads. It might have meant that other features were deemed a lesser problem.

However, this rubbish about 3d not working from people who have integrated graphics cards? Please. You can't buy a rubbish Dell in 1995 and expect it to play a game released into the 2008 gaming market. If my 8800GT was struggling with it, then there'd be some issues. And you'll need to realise that the closer to minimum specs that you are, the worse the game play will be - as with anything else.

My 2p

Sorry, I meant that the text commentary feels a bit too linear**

I'm gutted as well mate. I had high hopes for the demo but this injury nonsense has put me right off, I've even uninstalled the demo as it's unplayable in its current state.

Try managing like a manager who doesn't want all his stars injured, it won't stop injuries but it will reduce them to a manageable level, unless of course you're plain out of luck a la Newcastle last season.

In that case start another game and try again.

unmitigated disaster

Yeah, ok. hundreds of people enjoying it, few people have hardware based issues, and and it's not just a disaster but an unmitigated one. You'll be using the term fundamentally flawed next.

unplayable

Here we go again with the idiots chanting the word unplayable in every thread until FM10.

copious techinal issues

I assume you meant technical, but its hardly copious quantities of.

alienating a large percentage

Says who?

current riddled/bugged

Again, assume you were aiming for 'bug riddled'?

It's truly been a long time since I saw such a contrived, ill-founded, provocative example of wanton trolling.

Get a grip yourself.

They could have just patched fm08, fixing the confidence issues and transfers,,,and saved us all the trouble of buying a bug riddled game that itself needs a patch before its playable.

I would have waited until february for the new game with everything fixed and all transfers done. (I will prob wait until then before i buy the game anyway)

the thing is it does just feel like its been given a data update and little else.

Finally managed to get the 3d to work on my prehistoric laptop and despite the 5 minute loading time i have to say i quite like it. im more annoyed at the complete lack of support for intel chipsets (which have no problem running fifa) on my desktop considering the fact that the 3d isn't that advanced.

Also would have to agree the injuries bug makes the game almost unplayable, maybe I've been unlucky but I've played about ten games and have lost at least 2 players and at most 4 in every match.

Has anyone who is complaining about injuries got past the first month of the season? I soldiered on and now I have no injury problems. I have put it down to not having a preseason fitness schedule. After the first month I stopped getting so many injuries

Indi75 I'm not going to sling mud with you and I will not be drawn into your childish nit picking. I've gave my opinions, and yes they may be a bit frank, some would argue a bit harsh, but it's genuninely how I feel about this demo. I take umbrage to you suggesting I'm posting this just to wind people up as that couldn't be further from the truth. I've been a member here near on 5 years, and have been playing the franchise longer than that, so I want nothing more than FM09 to be top notch, but this demo has left me severely disappointed and I felt compelled to post, which is a rare thing for me.

FM09 may be the main project but surely some of the errors could have been easily avoided. If there are so many ppl working on the game how can some of the more obvious bugs not have been noticed immeadiately pre-release?

There's definitely room for improvement with FM09 - and with a patch coming on release day, (and if previous years are anything to go by, at least one more after that) that improvement will come...

However, as a (small) ray of sunshine... I wasn't much liking the 3D engine (partly cos my pc is a bit old and decrepit) but Yakubu just scored a 35 yard absolute screamer into the top corner past Petr Cech, and no I don't think I can go back to 2D

Unmitigated disaster? Jesus... It's been out a day. One day.

Indi75 I'm not going to sling mud with you and I will not be drawn into your childish nit picking. I've gave my opinions, and yes they may be a bit frank, some would argue a bit harsh, but it's genuninely how I feel about this demo. I take umbrage to you suggesting I'm posting this just to wind people up as that couldn't be further from the truth. I've been a member here near on 5 years, and have been playing the franchise longer than that, so I want nothing more than FM09 to be top notch, but this demo has left me severely disappointed and I felt compelled to post, which is a rare thing for me.

Oh I'd gladly have debate without any mud slinging, and I'm really not nit picking, I'm just feeling a little deflated by some of the sweepingly negative terminology being tossed around.

I'm sure there are some things to be fixed, but as with every year the forums are awash with a flood of teenage angst in full cry and very little of it is well founded argument.

I'm sorry you're disappointed. I'm sure I'll find a few things to grumble about, like the pointless media aspect of the game in diue course, but I'm hoping to state a good argument, not sound quite so enraged, and respect the fact that some might actually like the media element.

This game isn't a disaster by a long stretch of the imagination. The demo has it's wondrous quirks, if you remember back to a few years ago there was the demo that you couldn't even win on....come on this is nothing!

The 3d engine is actually very easy to use and adds to the experience. I would suggest that if they'd made the engine pes style then at least half of the FM audience would have even more problems running it. As for the game looking like Sensible world of soccer your way of the mark, The very idea of a stick man controlling a ball that uses actual physics is miles above the computing power that the AMIGA had available to it.:o It was however an amazing game.....

If you can get past the simple gfx engine then this game is enjoyable. Is it more enjoyable than fm08 - yes, especially a non patched 08.

It does seem odd that people seem amazed that the players stats haven't changed, if you look closely they have, check out manual pasqual, walcott, ashyly young, agbonlohor, david bently, micah richards, almunia, david james, kuyt, these are all different i asure you. For those players which haven't changed you can't be that suprised, if last years stats came close to replicating last years real life results (e.g goals, assists etc) then they shouldn't change at all.

Personally i like some of the engine changes i like the fact that players over 30 don't degrade into decrepit shadows of their former selves within 2 months . I also appreicate the fact that a 20 stat is the very best and rarest and not scatted willy nilly through the database. you know the little things like that are great, I also like the fact you can have 16 scouts touring the world looking for talent ala arsenal.

As for the injury thing, yes you can scream into the night during those matches where your best strikers lose their legs to chopper harris but is this a bug? Most players break down during pre-season or coming to the end of the season when the body isn't adjusted to the gruelling demands of a football pitch. Just think of owen, woodgate, duff, krancjar, ronaldo, etc etc who have all has to get fit after the season started. Unfortunately these things do happen in real life, just think about cisse who went from a 6 month leg break to another 6 month leg break in less than a year. If you accept that this is a possible problem then the game appears a little too close to actual events. Whether this makes the game more fun is a different question entirely. :confused:

I think Si deserve a large round of applause, after the amount of whining and whinging posters on this forum - who quite frankly don't have a clue - i'd have packed up and decided it wasn't worth it. Cullen89 you sound pretty annoyed and that's fine in fact it's great to actually read a post that's well written (more so than mine i imagine:D) but there must be something you like about this game? if not then return it and move on, you'll probably benefit more by using the time on a new life skill then wasting time playing computer games which essentially provide nothing apart from stress relief to the daily monotonous grind of life. I know that it'll take huge amounts of effort to get back to a 'normal' life whilst Fm2009 is rumbling about (well at least a week!)

Here's hoping you can find something positive in the game and that you either learn to like it or get over the bitter feelings generated by it.

Take It Easy

Y

If you haven't played this demo, it's as bad as the CM4 demo imo.

Yep, so bad that I uninstalled it.

Why? I can't imagine you remember the CM4 demo if this is what you think. There's a couple of minor glitches but I haven't come across anything even vaguely serious as a problem at all.

The injuries thing is completely overhyped, I can't help but feel a lot of people are exaggerating about the number they have since I have been trying to reproduce those kinds of figures but failed. 5-6 injuries at once near the start of the season is pretty realistic, and if you spread out the preseason friendlies a bit then it seems to be very difficult to even get this kind of number.

The 3D is by no means an all-singing, all-dancing finished article, but it is a whole lot more like real football than the other 3D match displays on the market.

Why? I can't imagine you remember the CM4 demo if this is what you think. There's a couple of minor glitches but I haven't come across anything even vaguely serious as a problem at all.

The injuries thing is completely overhyped, I can't help but feel a lot of people are exaggerating about the number they have since I have been trying to reproduce those kinds of figures but failed. 5-6 injuries at once near the start of the season is pretty realistic, and if you spread out the preseason friendlies a bit then it seems to be very difficult to even get this kind of number.

The 3D is by no means an all-singing, all-dancing finished article, but it is a whole lot more like real football than the other 3D match displays on the market.

I'm not one of these people gnashing their teeth and rending their clothes (I'm actually kinda enjoying the demo, and have no doubt I will enjoy the full game even more post-patch) but the injury thing really isn't an exagerration... at one point in my save, the *average* number of injuries at Premier League clubs was 9.5.... which, needless to say is a SMIDGE on the high side I think

I personally had 11 out injured... which with a squad of Everton's size (small) is more than a little bit of a problem

Fair enough, I have just never managed to get anywhere near this amount. Spreading out the preseason friendlies helps a lot, and decreasing training intensity for a couple of days after each match seems to work wonders. I've done that for the last few years anyway so it's pretty much second nature.

Looking at my saves at the moment, the AI teams maybe have an average of between 1 and 1.5 more injuries at once per team than IRL. So it's a slight issue with them but not a massive amount.