Who flicked the switch?

This seems to happen all the time, and I get frustrated by it all the time.

Its always the same - the team starts out great, spends the first month or two performing well, then around the end of October/start of November, it's like someone flicks the 'play like sunday leaguers' switch and they all turn into useless plonkers.

Strikers who were banging them in suddenly start blasting every shot straight at the keeper or wildly over the bar. Defenders who were hardly letting anyone get near the penalty area suddenly start ball-watching, letting both ball and opposition players cruise past them as though they really can't be arsed. After beating the likes of FC Bayern 5-2 at the start of the season, suddenly we're getting beat 2-0 by Stoke at home later on in the season. It's not that the tactic is being thwarted - we're still getting plenty of chances, posession etc. - it's just that the players all suddenly become unable to make any use of them. I'm talking about strikers whose Finishing, Decisions and Composure are at least 15+ just running straight at the keeper every single time and just blasting it at his chest or a mile wide or over the bar, where before they were rounding the keeper, combining to play 1-2's or tucking shots into the corner.

The team are not tired, their motivation is generally 'looks motivated' or 'looks fired up'. Anyone 'looking complacent' gets appropriate team talks or simply subbed off. Attempting to fix the problem through private interactions usually results in 'I don't see how that would benefit my game' - even though they're current form is in the toilet and they haven't scored for half a dozen straight games. Switching to a different set of players doesn't seem to help - the rot seems to be team-wide

It's like someone stole all my players and replaced them with schoolboys.

AAAARGH!!!!!

Ditto mate my post i put on earlier is the same but with a Lower league club it so annoying if it was more realistic it would be better but sometimes it doesnt make sense at all.

i feel ypur pain.

Me too! I'm seeing the exact same none-sense as you two are and it's that stupid sometimes that I've taken to saving before every match now and if I end up losing in ridiculous manner I just re-load and play the match again, don't get me wrong, I don't mind losing when it's believable but I'm getting sick of losing games that the odds are so obviously stacked against you no matter what you try and yes OK it might be seen as cheating to some but what the hell, this game cheats when ever it feels like it. Different tactics, substitutions, different player instructions.....nothing makes the slightest bit of difference if the game has already decided you're going on a bad run. YES, before the 'in real life' brigade jump down our throats, it does happen sometimes but not in the silly manner in which it does in FM.

i bet real managers could reload each day when they lose, i know its each to their own but i would find there very little point playing this game if thats how you choose to play it, there is more to football than winning every game, just because you think you shouldnt lose doesnt mean you are correct. Do you think chelsea thought they would lose 3-0 at home to sunderland?? I bet they wished they could just re-load because it was not realistic....................................

This game doesnt cheat, you maybe just are not that good, just because you watch a lot of football doesnt mean you know enough about management.

Anyway its clear all of you have had troubles with your team becoming complacent, which will easily happen when you start the season on fire, learn to man manage your team better and keep on top of over confident players, or you can always just re-load until you win every game, as i say each to their own.

How come I can go on a 46 match unbeaten run then? I'm 15 games into the season

Played 15... For 37... Ag 2... PTS 45

I'm trashing Inter 3-0 away from home. Make that 3-1.

AC Milan are my closest in the leauge on 33 PTS.

Yeh the game cheats?

FFS

ood points Milnerpoint but clearly you've not had the frustrating time we've had. over confidence is a problem so maybe that will help us to get our teams sorted but i still feel that its sometimes clear thet the game engine doesn't want you to win. bear in mind its a computer and doesn't work in commen sense

SI have repeatedly said this was implemented into the game to make it more challenging.

*cough* Chelsea 2010/2011 *cough*

ood points Milnerpoint but clearly you've not had the frustrating time we've had. over confidence is a problem so maybe that will help us to get our teams sorted but i still feel that its sometimes clear thet the game engine doesn't want you to win. bear in mind its a computer and doesn't work in commen sense

the game doesnt want you to win or lose, it doesnt want anything other than to process the data within the database, it has no bias between AI and human controlled teams. Of course the game doesnt work on common sense, it works by calculating the data avaliable and then generating results. If your team is over confindent or complancent then the game will add this into the calculations and base a result from there. It doesnt just decide mid october that your team is doing too well and you need to lose a few games to even things out. The only thing that will make your team going on big losing streaks is not managing the situation correctly, this includes team talks, private chats, tactics, player selection, training and everything else that goes into being a manager.

There are no unrealistic results in FM, only people think of them as unrealistic because they cannot relate them to a game in their memory.

SI have repeatedly said this was implemented into the game to make it more challenging.

No they haven't. I doubt that very very much, can you show me where then please?

I think this is actually the game's primitive way of telling you something is wrong tactically. This might not mean your tactics are wrong, it might mean, for instance, your passing is set too short which was fine in August when the weather was more co-operative but come November/December it starts to decline along with your players ability to pass the ball 5 yards.

I had this very problem until 2010 when I changed my tactics from trying to play pretty football, to a more balanced set-up. That's the key, balance to everything. It's easier said than done but when you're making a tactic try to guard against weather conditions, pitch conditions, and changes to the way the AI will change it's tactics against you.

I now use one tactic all season with hardly any changes at all and it's not very complicated to set up, I just use common sense and patience.

This wasn't intended to be a discussion about whether or not saving & reloading is a valid style of gameplay (frankly, it's nobody's business imo), or whether the game 'cheats'. I'm not suggesting it does. What I am suggesting is that something is happening to make my team switch from being world-beaters to world-class nitwits and I'm not getting any feedback as to what's causing it or how to fix it.

If it was a problem with complacency, I would expect my Assman feedback and the Match Day feedback to tell me so - but it isn't. The team's morale is very high, so it's not that. I never play players who are tired, or play them out of position. My tactics are 'Fluid' throughout in the match preparation screen. I use sensible teamtalks based on most of the accepted wisdom around the forums.

Despite all that, the drop off in performance is nothing short of catastrophic.

I think ypu have to accept that some teams go on runs and eventually they stop

Maybe give more praise as part of team talks or private chats to help boost players

i bet real managers could reload each day when they lose, i know its each to their own but i would find there very little point playing this game if thats how you choose to play it, there is more to football than winning every game, just because you think you shouldnt lose doesnt mean you are correct. Do you think chelsea thought they would lose 3-0 at home to sunderland?? I bet they wished they could just re-load because it was not realistic....................................

This game doesnt cheat, you maybe just are not that good, just because you watch a lot of football doesnt mean you know enough about management.

Anyway its clear all of you have had troubles with your team becoming complacent, which will easily happen when you start the season on fire, learn to man manage your team better and keep on top of over confident players, or you can always just re-load until you win every game, as i say each to their own.

I watched that game, Sunderland were excellent and didn't for one second resemble an AI controlled onslaught.... and anyway, who says I replay to the point where I win every game? I never said any such thing, it's just that my rules seem an awful lot more fair and accurate than FM's do....... I'm currently only mid table and lost my last two games, both in very believable football matches.

Just had my worst result ever on FM.

2-1 ddefeat to about the worst team to ever be in Serie A. They were so bad. But they scored 2 early on. And we missed loads of open goals.

As I say, I wouldnt it VERY rarely. But it costs me everything. I get knocked out of every cup the same way. Drop so many points. And my opposition just steam every game and always take their chances.

Sheva, it's your tactics

Heh i had this happen on my last save with MK Dons.

Was doing just fine on top of the league.. even managed a draw away with Tottenham 2-2 for the FA Cup and the team was playing excellently.. all of a sudden i just start getting trashed and completly outplayed by relegation teams at home.. and i normally can turn this around but this time i just couldn't.. still didn't understand what went wrong but it was enough to abort that save.

Maybe i just rush the season too fast.. my most successful save happened when i watched my matches on full detail and tweaked on the fly.. but don't really have the patience to do that every single game..

*cough* Chelsea 2010/2011 *cough*

this.

It happens in real life. Often. Teams go on a good run and then fall apart.

If you went with the same tactic game in and game out wouldn't the opposition figure you out, and adjust/compensate for it by finding ways to beat your system. Or does the game not operate like that? If not i wish it did.

this.

It happens 'in real life'. Often. Teams go on a good run and then fall apart.

Haha.... The most over stated excuse for bad things that happen in FM.

It happens IRL very often, maybe the only time it hasn't happened was when Arsenal went unbeaten in the league. For e.g. now Chelsea and QPR, were banging goal in for fun and now they can barely get a point. After experience, there are several ways to over come this:-

- Roatation of squad, make sure there is good back up in every position

- New tactics, during your 'blip' use your back up tactic and when confidence is high again go back to the tactic before your blip

- Training, change workload so players may become more happy

- Contract, when a player is low in morale and new contract may boost his morale

Even if you do try all these points it may not help because THAT'S FOOTBALL!

Footballers cant play 100% every week every year.

Chelsea had injuries to key players and not enough depth to cover them.. it's different.

And i'm not saying that the game is out there to get me or anything i'm not that thick.. i was obviously doing something wrong!

Sheva, it's your tactics

Its not.

We dominate the game and create loads of chances. Good chances.

Opposite for me. I was on the verge of being fired in November because of dreadulf results. With 6 games left in the season now my team(Roma) is on fire I have won 6 in a row and am 4th with a serious shot to win the league.

SI have repeatedly said this was implemented into the game to make it more challenging.

I wonder why do people invent this ind of things...

I think they said it on the same topic where they confirmed player quests and "injury an opponent" instructions.

My lower league team ended a run of seventeen consecutive wins, with a poor performance and a loss. They then scraped through a cup match and drew their next league game, performing very poorly against poor quality opponents.

Why?

Because I allowed my team to get complacent. In about three or four matches prior to the defeat, the team wasn't playing as well as it could and I neglected to nip the complacency in the bud earlier. I kept boosting confidence instead and thus, compounded the issue. As a result, players have begun performing poorly and their excellent early form is now gone. I have to build up their confidence, but be cautious not to make them over confident again.

The signs are there if you look for them and deal with them. If you simply click through matches, thinking you're going to roll over every team in front of you, even if you're in a rich run of form, then you're actually suffering the same sort of complacency that your in-game players are. Simple as that really.

Brilliant reply heath and its rung true for me now you put into words. i do just click through and expect to win so now i have to start my season again as i've "cheated" biut you can explain to my wife why i'm spending even more time on my mistress FM.

just buy her a rabbit, she'll never notice you're gone

In addition to what heathxxx said...

... if your team are losing their form, start employing tactics that are more conservative. Make your defence solid, difficult to break down. Work on your set-piece routines. Be less elaborate in your style of play. Grind out some decent results and you can then push on from there.

Another good point there Lord Rowell

I've actually just adopted the same approach with some minor changes to my team settings.

To quote my description of these changes from my thread:

Well, earlier I said I might not change things much tactically, but having had a general review of things statistically, I thought I should provide myself with an alternative option, though it's still based on the same framework. I've literally just reigned things in a bit with the team instructions.

That option is "back to basics".

These are the team instructions I've been using thus far in this save:

This is what I've changed to:

As you'll see, I've mainly changed the philosophy to "balanced" and the creative freedom to "more disciplined". Although the starting strategy in the above image is attacking, I may alter this depending on the circumstances during matches.

Although I've only utilised this change of tactical settings in one game so far, it did made a noticeable difference during play. A comfortable 4-0 victory away to Eastwood Town in the FA Trophy, with player ratings ranging from 7.5 to 8.6 across the team. No stand-out individuals, but an excellent overall team performance.

The additional thing to bear in mind, is that I'm currently in the winter months and so pitch conditions are generally poor. My team making use of their technical advantages on a good surface is fine, but on poor pitches, it's becoming more obvious that those "nice touches" aren't always coming off and mistakes are being made. Therefore the more basic approach is instructing my players to keep things simpler in the more difficult conditions.

You may note that I've kept the roaming instruction the same. This is simply because I still want my team to look at exploiting space and for players to move into space to receive the ball.

To elaborate, since I've started with those changes, I've won a few times now without conceding. My team is tighter, doing the basics better and playing more as a cohesive team unit. Although I still have roaming selected, this shouldn't be particularly mistaken for a "go wherever you want" instruction for players. It's more of an encouragement for them to look at off the ball movement into space, to receive passes. That's something I like to encourage irrespective of pitch and weather conditions.

It happens in real life, Chelsea being a recent example.

Teams become aware of flaws in your tactics and exploit them, this is football.

Tighten things up and try to get your players to keep possession better. Grind out a result from a set piece and push on from there.

Also, make sure to check for players being reported as laid back or looking complacent before a match by your assistant.

Examine the goals you're conceding. Are they mistakes from defenders? Check their passing and mentality. Are they set pieces? Check how you set up your team defending.

It happens, otherwise it'd be too easy. Stop complaining and saying it's the AI cheating or something and adapt. That is football!

just rotate in a few fringe players there morale will prob be abit lower and take out some players with superb morale for a few games to try and stop over confidence

Just had my worst result ever on FM.

2-1 ddefeat to about the worst team to ever be in Serie A. They were so bad. But they scored 2 early on. And we missed loads of open goals.

As I say, I wouldnt it VERY rarely. But it costs me everything. I get knocked out of every cup the same way. Drop so many points. And my opposition just steam every game and always take their chances.

Can't you simply accept that you're doing something wrong instead of blaming the game every five seconds?

It's absolutely blatant what your problem is - you're piling people forward and getting caught on the counter too easily...

Ok so after looking at the discussions I went to my game and had lots of private chats and changed it around slightly and it worked. No very realistic as i went back 6 games so sorry to the FM lovers who hate "cheating" but its my first season in the Zameretto D1SW so i'll not make the same choice again. More care is needed over the players confidence/arrogance on this FM which is very realistic even in amateur football some lads think its a walk in the park and get humped.