Fm2011 drm

What is the situation in terms of DRM for FM2011?

I refused to buy 2009 because of the excessive DRM and the response I got from moderators on here in regards to speaking up against it. Got called every name under the sun, including a pirate - all because I didn't agree with DRM. I had my supporters but they too were labeled as pirates (mostly through thinly veiled innuendo). Still seething to this day, that moderators who are associated with FM/SI/Sega would call someone a pirate so easily and without cause because I wouldn't go along with the party line. Anyway, screw you all those that participated. I have had all the CM/FMs since CM2 (even CM quiz) except 2009 because of your ignorance. Though I see your tracks were covered up/corrected by the deleting of certain posts...ANYWAY...rant over...

When FM2010 was announced with relaxed DRM and instantly put in my pre-order, even though I still objected to the attitude of SI moderators on these boards. I was glad I did because I've played it a hell of a lot and it is awesome. A year out made all the difference.

Understandably I am excited about FM2011, but would again like to know if I will be purchasing it...what is the DRM like?

Thanks.

Whats DRM?

DRM is copyright related nonsense.

@OP

Its the usuall install with CD Key and have Disc in drive.

Also there is steam way, install through it and keep internet on.

Im guessing Steam & Unilock

FM09's DRM was the best thing about it IMO. No need to keep the disk in \o/. I wish they'd bring it back.

FM09's DRM was the best thing about it IMO. No need to keep the disk in \o/. I wish they'd bring it back.

Agree with this

LOL. What the hell's the OP rambling on about?

LOL. What the hell's the OP rambling on about?

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/58976-Adverts-on-ingame-hoardings-and-the-EULA

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/53722-Will-the-DRM-on-FM-09-stop-you-from-buying-the-game

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/58966-Activation-of-Football-Manager-2009

These threads have ample examples of the type of unhappiness he's discussing. It appears he objects to anything but minimalistic attempts to prevent pirating of a game. It's not clear to me exactly why he has this stand, that is, whether he objects to all DRM on principle, or whether he objects to obnoxious DRM efforts.

@OP whats your problem exactly with "DRM" ?

Thanks OP, I've searched through some of the release notes and was about to post a similar question. Hopefully SI will keep "CD key/CD in drive" as an option for FM2011.

@OP whats your problem exactly with "DRM" ?

Probably the thought of not being able to play the game he bought for days while pirates are totally unaffected. Therefore SI made it more attractive for people to pirate 2009 than buy it. They realised their mistake and removed it for 2010.

@OP

Its the usuall install with CD Key and have Disc in drive.

Also there is steam way, install through it and keep internet on.

FM 2010 did this. It was best. I am up for this scheme without hesitation.

FM09's DRM was the best thing about it IMO. No need to keep the disk in \o/. I wish they'd bring it back.

FM 2010 used Steam - I didn't need to put disc in the drive. Steam also has an offline mode which quite good if you're paranoid about internet connection.

This is quite mild compared to UbiSoft Silent Hunter 5, using DRM that requires owner to have constant good-quality internet connection to server even when playing "offline". Same is in use AFAIK with Assassin Creed 2. That basically prevents anyone having poor internet connection or none at all to play game. Funnily (not from the company point of view though), cracks and pirated copies emerged within month, making it MORE easy for pirate to play game (since they apparently circumvented the protection) than legitimate user!

I have refused to buy either of those games because I don't want game company to decide where and when I play my purchased game, online or offline..or being unable to play when servers are down etc.

But I have had no problems with FM-series DRM, for example FM2009 activation online went smoothly for me. I know it didn't work that well for others, but I had no complaints.

Its always easier for pirates sadly.

I don't think that's true. FM2010 just involved putting the DVD in the drive and starting the game. It's when you start using the crazy systems like those used on FM09 that it becomes easier for the pirates, and that's why DRM should be minimal.

These threads have ample examples of the type of unhappiness he's discussing. It appears he objects to anything but minimalistic attempts to prevent pirating of a game. It's not clear to me exactly why he has this stand, that is, whether he objects to all DRM on principle, or whether he objects to obnoxious DRM efforts.

He's not the only one who has an isue with the current DRM's DRM Dilemma even softward companies remain to be convinced.

Link shamelessly stolen from annother sight, credit due to the person that posted it.

I don't think that's true. FM2010 just involved putting the DVD in the drive and starting the game. It's when you start using the crazy systems like those used on FM09 that it becomes easier for the pirates, and that's why DRM should be minimal.

I didn't think FM2009 system was crazy, but implementation was bit sub par. That's the problem with lot of DRMs...and don't let me start with StarForce copy protection, which had potential to wreck your DVD-drive for good...

There is fine line between protecting game versus pirates and making customers annoyed by implementing really bothersome schemes. There is always temptation for piracy among people, especially if protection schemes are too intrusive. But mainly it drives potential customers away rather than make them pirates.

While I don't buy every FM-series game (bought CM99-00, CM00-01 etc., gave wide berth to CM4, bought first FM, skipped some, got FM2009, got FM2010 last week for €19.90 ), it's not because of DRM in game, I have had no problems. I just don't like some aspects of game implemented in some versions, so I'd not have any reason to pirate them either. Not that FM2010 doesn't anger me sometimes in-play too, but at least I didn't pay full price..

FM09's DRM was the best thing about it IMO. No need to keep the disk in \o/. I wish they'd bring it back.

It wasnt good at all. Maybe for people that had internet at the time it was. I had no internet when I bought that game and when I got it home and installed it with the CD Key, I then had to ring a PREMIUM RATE number to activate the game (from a mobile aswell as I had no landline). That was a disgrace. Had I know about that before buying the game I wouldnt have bothered and I was in two minds about taking it back. I wish I did now as it turned out to be one of the worst FM's in recent years.

He's not the only one who has an isue with the current DRM's DRM Dilemma even softward companies remain to be convinced.

Link shamelessly stolen from annother sight, credit due to the person that posted it.

Just a note that your persuasiveness in arguing such matters might be improved with some decent spelling. :confused:

I will note in general that the game I've played the most had no DRM at all: Europa Universalis II. Anytime I can simply double-click and proceed without worrying where the disc is, or do I have an internet connection, or can I find some stupid sheet with keys on it, etc., I'll be more likely to buy and play the game. Similarly, my willingness to play Civ IV was significantly increased when they put out the final patch that took the DRM off. That's why I like using Steam; no worries at all about where the disc is. Sadly, Steam does have some other downsides. Thus, the best result would be to have the game out without any need for a disc or Steam or anything to play. Doesn't seem to hurt Paradox Games that they put theirs out that way...

Just a note that your persuasiveness in arguing such matters might be improved with some decent spelling. :confused:

I will note in general that the game I've played the most had no DRM at all: Europa Universalis II. Anytime I can simply double-click and proceed without worrying where the disc is, or do I have an internet connection, or can I find some stupid sheet with keys on it, etc., I'll be more likely to buy and play the game. Similarly, my willingness to play Civ IV was significantly increased when they put out the final patch that took the DRM off. That's why I like using Steam; no worries at all about where the disc is. Sadly, Steam does have some other downsides. Thus, the best result would be to have the game out without any need for a disc or Steam or anything to play. Doesn't seem to hurt Paradox Games that they put theirs out that way...

Used to play EUII with AGCEEP a lot, was good when last patch removed need to have disk in drive. Regarding Steam, I prefer GamersGate over Steam any day of the year if I want to download game online and not to buy disc from store. GamersGate used to be owned by Paradox (makers of EU/HOI etc.) and I have not touched Steam since. Problem is, Steam d/l games often need Steam-specific patches, which usually come out later than normal patches...not to mention some nasty registration problems people have had...

Just a note that your persuasiveness in arguing such matters might be improved with some decent spelling. :confused:

In my defence I had woken up less than an hour before posting which meant my coffee count was under 3 cups.

In my defence I had woken up less than an hour before posting which meant my coffee count was under 3 cups.

It wasn't that bad TBH.

This is pretty entertaining; curse those creators trying to protect what they've invented.

To be honest I don't care much for people who hold grudges or those who are too stubborn to admit a mistake. If you like a game and can afford it, buy it, just try not to dance around an issue that isn't really too big.

Just a note that your persuasiveness in arguing such matters might be improved with some decent spelling. :confused:

I will note in general that the game I've played the most had no DRM at all: Europa Universalis II. Anytime I can simply double-click and proceed without worrying where the disc is, or do I have an internet connection, or can I find some stupid sheet with keys on it, etc., I'll be more likely to buy and play the game. Similarly, my willingness to play Civ IV was significantly increased when they put out the final patch that took the DRM off. That's why I like using Steam; no worries at all about where the disc is. Sadly, Steam does have some other downsides. Thus, the best result would be to have the game out without any need for a disc or Steam or anything to play. Doesn't seem to hurt Paradox Games that they put theirs out that way...

You could argue Steam is DRM...

- Unnecessary - disk versions of the game work perfectly without Steam, so Steam is unnecessary

- Consumes resources - Steam has a memory and processor footprint, and since it is unnecessary it consumes unnecessary resources

- Controls what you can do - if things go wrong on your account, you can be banned from Steam, losing all the games you paid for - and Steam is in control of all that

- Doesn't add value - as it suggests

It's just a little more easy to ensure that someone actually gets a legal copy because you are getting the game from an "endorsed" third-party (i.e. Valve's Steam).

This is pretty entertaining; curse those creators trying to protect what they've invented.

To be honest I don't care much for people who hold grudges or those who are too stubborn to admit a mistake. If you like a game and can afford it, buy it, just try not to dance around an issue that isn't really too big.

DRM is a lot bigger than you think! Some terrible DRMs exist out there - like Assassin's Creed 2. Nowadays everyone has a decent connection speed, but that's not what Assassin's Creed 2 needs - it needs a reliable connection. A lot of connections over in Australia are quick enough for Assassin's Creed 2, but they have high pings to the servers and more importantly, they drop and reconnect frequently - Assassin's Creed 2 doesn't like that. StarForce - well, let's just use this link: http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/30/anticopying_malware_.html

DRM is a nasty thing that really only serves to hurt legitimate consumers. DRM solutions are cracked quickly nowadays - so those who pirate get the game easily and DRM-free, while those who get the game legitimately have the burden of DRM. Doesn't really sound great, does it?

I know it's a film but this sort of describes the problem of DRM, and why it makes pirating so tempting: http://cdn.techi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/piratedvd.jpg

It wasnt good at all. Maybe for people that had internet at the time it was. I had no internet when I bought that game and when I got it home and installed it with the CD Key, I then had to ring a PREMIUM RATE number to activate the game (from a mobile aswell as I had no landline). That was a disgrace. Had I know about that before buying the game I wouldnt have bothered and I was in two minds about taking it back. I wish I did now as it turned out to be one of the worst FM's in recent years.

I also had no internet. I thought it was free from landlines, unfortunate if you didn't have a landline either at the time.

I also had no internet. I thought it was free from landlines, unfortunate if you didn't have a landline either at the time.

Well yeh thats why I had no internet because I didnt have a landline. I think when I got my phone bill the call cost me about £7.50. Not good at all then you have just paid for the game aswell.

Well yeh thats why I had no internet because I didnt have a landline. I think when I got my phone bill the call cost me about £7.50. Not good at all then you have just paid for the game aswell.

OMG 7.5

GPRS would have been cheaper.

Bring back the requirement to type a word from the manual in. Page 4, paragraph 2, line 1 word 15. At least we'd also get a proper manual as well

You could argue Steam is DRM...

- Unnecessary - disk versions of the game work perfectly without Steam, so Steam is unnecessary

- Consumes resources - Steam has a memory and processor footprint, and since it is unnecessary it consumes unnecessary resources

- Controls what you can do - if things go wrong on your account, you can be banned from Steam, losing all the games you paid for - and Steam is in control of all that

- Doesn't add value - as it suggests

It's just a little more easy to ensure that someone actually gets a legal copy because you are getting the game from an "endorsed" third-party (i.e. Valve's Steam).

Steam is very obviously DRM, nobody sane would argue anything different.

But i have a few issues with your points.

1. Steam is the DRM, if it wasnt Steam it would be something else that would more than likely be more annoying to the average PC gamer, so its not "unnecessary" so to speak.

2. It consumes a very minimal amount of resources, people use it without any complaint in a variety of top level MP games that rely on a stable connection as well as smooth FPS from Counter Strike to battlefield to Medal of Honour... complaining about its memory usage is as redundant as complaining about animated loading screens in modern games, sure they use up some resources that could be used on actually loading the game but in terms of overall effects on modern computers they are pathetically small compared to the overall performance of machines. ie. Running steam does not hinder gamers any more than having an internet window (be it, IE, Chrome or Firefox) or a media player running. Anybody who's performance is actually affected by Steam should be worrying about replacing their years old system or getting rid of the dozens of virus's and or malware programs running instead.

3. Steam/Valve take banning someone incredibly seriously, they do not just ban people willy nilly for the fun of it, there is next to nothing you could do with regards to any FM game that would get Steam to ban your account unless they actively caught you pirating it. In short if you have a legit copy and are not cheating in mulitplayer games that use Steam directly (like counter strike) then you will not be banned.

4. It does add value, it lets you easily talk to friends who are also on steam while you are playing, it automatically downloads updates for you, it lets you access the game from any computer in the world you happen to be using (providing you download it again).

It has its faults such as slightly higher prices than retail but that is completely optional (nobody is forcing you to pay for the steam version of the game), or the lack of pre loads on certain games that leads to annoying delays on release.

But these things pale in comparison to the ease of use and the accessibility you gain if you are even somewhat competent when it comes to using computers.

I have been using Steam since its release in 2003 and i have never had any problems with it or any of the 90+ games i have bought over it, aside from a few small issues that were solved rapidly by a bit of googling.

Hell the other day i wanted to cancel my Mafia 2 pre order based on its utterly crap reviews and i told steam exactly why i wanted a refund, 3 hours after i sent the Email i got a reply confirming my refund and 3 days later i had my 30 quid back in my account.

You could argue Steam is DRM...

- Unnecessary - disk versions of the game work perfectly without Steam, so Steam is unnecessary

- Consumes resources - Steam has a memory and processor footprint, and since it is unnecessary it consumes unnecessary resources

- Controls what you can do - if things go wrong on your account, you can be banned from Steam, losing all the games you paid for - and Steam is in control of all that

- Doesn't add value - as it suggests

It's just a little more easy to ensure that someone actually gets a legal copy because you are getting the game from an "endorsed" third-party (i.e. Valve's Steam).

DRM is a lot bigger than you think! Some terrible DRMs exist out there - like Assassin's Creed 2. Nowadays everyone has a decent connection speed, but that's not what Assassin's Creed 2 needs - it needs a reliable connection. A lot of connections over in Australia are quick enough for Assassin's Creed 2, but they have high pings to the servers and more importantly, they drop and reconnect frequently - Assassin's Creed 2 doesn't like that. StarForce - well, let's just use this link: http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/30/anticopying_malware_.html

DRM is a nasty thing that really only serves to hurt legitimate consumers. DRM solutions are cracked quickly nowadays - so those who pirate get the game easily and DRM-free, while those who get the game legitimately have the burden of DRM. Doesn't really sound great, does it?

I know it's a film but this sort of describes the problem of DRM, and why it makes pirating so tempting: http://cdn.techi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/piratedvd.jpg

Sorry I can't agree. It seems you play only Football Manager games in your life and don't know about Steam well.

1) Steam is absolutely necessary to tackle piracy problem in PC gaming industry. They are doing a fantastic job.

2) Yes, steam has a memory and processor footprint but it's very negligible if you compare other resources like silly 'desktop window manager aka dwm.exe' in windows 7. [see the task manager window]

3) So called Steam's VAC system is not for all. You can be banned only if you are playing a multiplayer game hosted in Steam's own server and using cheats. If you are playing MP games in other 3rd-party servers or SP games and cheats your play, then Steam doesn't care about your cheat. Just FYI, I have played ES4:Oblivion in GodMode once and I didn't get banned.

4) Value added services? This is a grey area to me. Some of my friends are liking Steam's community and I don't.

Steam is here to stay and they're helping PC gamers and reviving PC gaming industry in many ways.

I may sound like a Steam fanboy. But let me tell you I was a Steam hater once. But slowly and steadily bought many games over the Steam and found that actually it's better than the rest. It has wonderful gaming delivery system and unobtrusive DRM scheme. Sure, it has disadvantages too but it's good points outweighs bad.

Anyone defending the FM09 DRM must have a very short memory.It was a nightmare for a great many. The support structure for it (key code printing quality, telephone line accesibility etc) was not fit for purpose. FM 10 offered options on activation, much better.I understand the piracy concerns but FM games have true fans unlike many other PC games, true fans (like Rock/Pop band fans) will generally buy the product anyway for the excitement of owning the original box and artwork. I will bet that 90% of purchasers of pirated copy would probably not have bought the product at all at RRP. Inclusion of a manual with the game which is actually worth reading would probably ensure that piracy figures were reduced to just the casual buyer. The goodwill of the vast majority - the devoted game fans who buy year in year out despite having to patch upon release and again, and again (and who see patches as enhancements and not fixes) - should not be scrificed for the ones who would never pay RRP regardless. Bearing in mind how shoddy FM games generally play from the box (unpatched), I woud suggest that that is in effect its own very effective DRM. Perhaps access to the SI support forums should be the avenue blocked by DRM. Prove the gamne is yours, access the support. That way pirated product would be traceable at least to forum member. None of this prevents piracy, I appreciate - but neither did the FM09 debacle.

Both 09 and 10 worked very well for me. That I did not have to have the disc to play it made it easy for me to play it exactly the way I wanted it.

My girlfriend lives a couple of hours drive away from me, so when I go to her once a week or so for a couple of days, I could play the game at her place without having to remember to bring the disc every time. I have bought the previous two versions off Steam on release day, and I will continue to do so as long as it is available.

Sorry I can't agree. It seems you play only Football Manager games in your life and don't know about Steam well.

1) Steam is absolutely necessary to tackle piracy problem in PC gaming industry. They are doing a fantastic job.

2) Yes, steam has a memory and processor footprint but it's very negligible if you compare other resources like silly 'desktop window manager aka dwm.exe' in windows 7. [see the task manager window]

3) So called Steam's VAC system is not for all. You can be banned only if you are playing a multiplayer game hosted in Steam's own server and using cheats. If you are playing MP games in other 3rd-party servers or SP games and cheats your play, then Steam doesn't care about your cheat. Just FYI, I have played ES4:Oblivion in GodMode once and I didn't get banned.

4) Value added services? This is a grey area to me. Some of my friends are liking Steam's community and I don't.

Steam is here to stay and they're helping PC gamers and reviving PC gaming industry in many ways.

I may sound like a Steam fanboy. But let me tell you I was a Steam hater once. But slowly and steadily bought many games over the Steam and found that actually it's better than the rest. It has wonderful gaming delivery system and unobtrusive DRM scheme. Sure, it has disadvantages too but it's good points outweighs bad.

1.) No its not and no it doesnt. Piracy while a problem is not exactly stopping good games to sell in huge numbers. And if you think steam is any good at preventing piracy just do a quick google search and see with your own eyes how easy steam games are cracked.

2.) dwm.exe is kinda useful if you want to use your computer, while steam is just an always running online shop. Personally i dont have a problem with steam using too much resources on my computer despite being almost 4 years old, but just look at the kind of computers FM users are using and even buying today. Those people seriously need every resource they can find.

Im not a Steam hater but i hate it when games are only released on steam. If people want to pay more for the privilege of having their games at the mercy of a third party then they should have that choice. I just want a normal cd-check version for the rest of us.

You will be surprised by the $$ the companies lose due to piracy.

Your never going to stop it though are you. There will always be people that want something for nothing. SI are lucky they have such a hardcore cult following that buy the game regardless or it would be much worse.

1.) No its not and no it doesnt. Piracy while a problem is not exactly stopping good games to sell in huge numbers. And if you think steam is any good at preventing piracy just do a quick google search and see with your own eyes how easy steam games are cracked.

2.) dwm.exe is kinda useful if you want to use your computer, while steam is just an always running online shop. Personally i dont have a problem with steam using too much resources on my computer despite being almost 4 years old, but just look at the kind of computers FM users are using and even buying today. Those people seriously need every resource they can find.

Im not a Steam hater but i hate it when games are only released on steam. If people want to pay more for the privilege of having their games at the mercy of a third party then they should have that choice. I just want a normal cd-check version for the rest of us.

Please visit gaming websites. You can find developers openly favoring Steam against piracy problem. Very recently I've noticed this: http://www.gamertell.com/gaming/comment/how-steam-saved-introversion-software/ and this http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=261490?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-News-RSS

Sorry to break the very bad news for you. Normal CD-check only game won't be released anymore. Steam is here to stay and it'll stay.

dwm.exe doesn't do useful and I find it resource hog (12-15MB of RAM) in 1or 2GB based system. It also causes graphical redraw problems many times. If someone has 4GB system dwm won't affect much like Steam.

By the way, I've never heard that a big-budget game is released on Steam and not on Retail disc (might be true for some indie games, not sure). Can you find me one?

But according to SI (I forgot who), FM suffered more sales last year due to piracy. Can't find the link at this moment.

Miles said that in some countries more than 5m people play pirated version. In the FM11 announcement thread.

Miles said that in some countries more than 5m people play pirated version. In the FM11 announcement thread.

yes. He said that in one of his interviews.

Even if all of them bought the game @$10, SI could have gained around $50mil and that's huge money. DRM like Steam needs to there.

I refused to buy 2009 because of the excessive DRM and the response I got from moderators on here in regards to speaking up against it. Got called every name under the sun, including a pirate - all because I didn't agree with DRM.

Really? The only person I can see with an attitude problem during that time is you, either you were shouting someone out or being sacrcastically condecending. Can't see you being called 'every name under the sun' and certainly no mod abuse.

Selective memory?

Also, interesting to note that the last time he's been active on the forum was twenty minutes after the OP. Seems a bit odd to ask for information then not bother to check to see if there's any answer. It almost looks like a classic troll hit-and run, especially considering the tenor of the OP.

Also, interesting to note that the last time he's been active on the forum was twenty minutes after the OP. Seems a bit odd to ask for information then not bother to check to see if there's any answer. It almost looks like a classic troll hit-and run, especially considering the tenor of the OP.

To be fair to him, his Q was answered by me after just 6 mins.

Really? The only person I can see with an attitude problem during that time is you, either you were shouting someone out or being sacrcastically condecending. Can't see you being called 'every name under the sun' and certainly no mod abuse.

Selective memory?

Also, interesting to note that the last time he's been active on the forum was twenty minutes after the OP. Seems a bit odd to ask for information then not bother to check to see if there's any answer. It almost looks like a classic troll hit-and run, especially considering the tenor of the OP.

Please do not insult me, I have no intention of being the victim yet again in another tirade from you.

As Ishu said, he gave the answer. PLUS...FOR YOUR INFORMATION, one can read the main forum without being logged in. So please, keep it to yourself, you are helping no-one with this attitude and are doing serious harm to the name of SI.

I really do not take kindly to these kind of accusations because I do not agree with the decisions of SI. This topic has had a reasonable debate bar a few erroneous comments, there is no need for you to personally attack an SI customer. If this continues, SI will have one less sale...and I doubt I would be the last if this is how consumers are treated on here - especially one who loves FM so much and has been playing for so many years.

So again, I do not appreciate the accusation by some upstart who doesn't like DRM being talked about in a negative way. Keep it civil, keep it on topic and don't get personal - I'd expect more from a moderator, but users cannot be treated like this, hence my response which whill no doubt be dissected in irony.

ps. as mentioned, comments were removed to hide the actions of a couple of irate moderators, the history has gone, the evidence has been buried. Just thought you'd like to know that, Detective.

Miles said that in some countries more than 5m people play pirated version. In the FM11 announcement thread.

I wonder if Miles can back this claim up with hard data? I'm not sure he can.

But i have a few issues with your points.

4. It does add value, it lets you easily talk to friends who are also on steam while you are playing, it automatically downloads updates for you, it lets you access the game from any computer in the world you happen to be using (providing you download it again).

I wouldn't say this is a strong counter argument, I can talk to friends on the phone, via MSN or IRC & let's not forget Facebook, I'm not that lazy that I cannot download a patch myself & I would also like to option of not downloading it which Steam does not allow & finally how many PC's or Laptops that you do not own allow you to install Steam & download your games?

I wonder if Miles can back this claim up with hard data? I'm not sure he can.

I will tell Miles to gather all the 5m people to have a talk with you.

I have seen piracy. Of all the people I know IRL only two buy originals and only for their PS3.

Also I haven't seen a single person running original windows either. (Non OEM)

Maybe you need to associate with a better class of person. :bettersafetywink:

ps. as mentioned, comments were removed to hide the actions of a couple of irate moderators, the history has gone, the evidence has been buried. Just thought you'd like to know that, Detective.

Moderators can read deleted posts.

How exactly does Steam stop piracy if people are still pirating the game en masse? All Steam is doing is causing an inconvenience to the paying customer:

• Much longer install time- 5 minute installation from disk, 40 minute 30%-then-failed installation via Steam.
  
• Editor is much harder to find
  
• Uses resources- yes, not much, but it uses them. Bandwidth and initial start up in particular annoy me.
  

That's why I think we should either go back to a user-friendly form of DRM (Unilock, once the DDoS attack was over) or not use any DRM whatsoever.

Maybe you need to associate with a better class of person. :bettersafetywink:

Nah, It depend on where you live.

In some coutries piracy is common but not so in others.

What can you do if every game, software, OS costs 1$.

Please do not insult me, I have no intention of being the victim yet again in another tirade from you.

Another? I don't remember any...I can't even remember posting in your direction before, let alone it being of dubius quality. Perhaps you can refresh my memory.

ps. as mentioned, comments were removed to hide the actions of a couple of irate moderators, the history has gone, the evidence has been buried. Just thought you'd like to know that, Detective.

No they haven't gone. They just can't be seen by ordinary forum users. ALL edits and removals are recorded. This is why I went back through your posting history, to see what your compaints were based on. The only post removals I could find were those done by the posters themselves, none of whom were mods, and none anything to do with you. I could find no derogatory remarks to you by any mod, irate or otherwise, removed or not.

The history has NOT gone, the evidence has NOT been buried. Just though you'd like to know that, invective.