Club rep: now getting ridiculous...

I know this isn't my first rant about Club reputations, unsettled players and stupid transfers, but the whole thing has now become unbearable.

Last season, 2016-17, I won my first ever Champions League with Rosenborg (after having made the Group Stage since 2010 and the Knockout Stage since 2013).

Then I also reported the European Supercup and the World Club Championship to seal the treble.

Everything's going a-okay, even the backups aren't complaining much... just the overly "sensitive" players are worried about team harmony...

Then the january 2018 transfer window rolls around... Hull City offers 7M for my Cameroonian AMC, one of the Top Guys in my team.

I turn the offer down and...

He's ANGRY AT ME because he wanted to move to Hull f'n City!!!

So I check, out of curiosity... maybe the Tigers have become a top EPL club and I hadn't noticed... Nope, their finishing position ranged from 8th to 12th...

They're currently 2nd, but I suppose it won't last... And their balance is -10M too...

And just for more curiosity, I check the clubs' reputation with FMRTE...

Mine is 6500ish, while Hull is 6800ish...

Now, explain me how a mid-table EPL act can still be more "popular" and desirable than a Treble-winning, Champions League regular, ranked 4th in the world...

I could live with my reputation being lower than one of the Top Four in England, Italy or Spain...

I can accept a Champions League win is still perceived as a "fluke", but if 10 years of solid results in Europe aren't enough to make a club surpass in reputation the whole lot of mid-table acts in bigger leagues, than I really don't know what's the point of playing outside of the Big Four...

Come on... Champions Legue winners Porto sold their leading stars to Chelsea and Barça, not to Bolton or Betis...

And I quite doubt Deco or Carvalho would have put their foot down to leave Porto for such clubs, despite the league having a better standard/rep.

So please, please, PLEASE, can we get a better reputation system next year?

What's the point in being ranked among the Top 10 and winning left and right if your star players will want to leave as soon as a craptacular EPL/Liga/Serie A side makes an offer?

What's the point in winning a lot, if the reputation is still "National"? Do we have to win the World Cup against Brazil in order to get continental reputation? Or to get a better reputation than bottom-half English clubs...

I suspect league reputation has a lot to do with your problem.

Dynamic league rep would be a massive step forward but it wouldn't negate these types of situations completely.

You are playing in Norway. That explains it. Even if you have won the CL, nobody will trust you to repeat this, nor will you be in the financial position to compete even with an average EPL club. Plus playing in Norway's league for the up-and-away-runner is just less challenging than playing in a more competitive league. Hence also Rangers and Celtic struggle to attract world class players irl.

That's how football works.

Take rl Ajax as another example. Just after they won the Champions League all players were happy to leave to anywhere for more money and bigger leagues.

You are playing in Norway. That explains it. Even if you have won the CL, nobody will trust you to repeat this, nor will you be in the financial position to compete even with an average EPL club. Plus playing in Norway's league for the up-and-away-runner is just less challenging than playing in a more competitive league. Hence also Rangers and Celtic struggle to attract world class players irl.

That's how football works.

Take rl Ajax as another example. Just after they won the Champions League all players were happy to leave to anywhere for more money and bigger leagues.

Not strictly true as those players all went to teams with big reputations.

Could you really have seen Davids, Seedorf, Kluivert, Overmars etc going to someone like Ipswich or Sheffield Wednesday at the time?

It is a difficult situation and they're probably looking at it for FM11. In my own experience managing in France, my team reputation dropped between 600-800 points at the end of every season regardless of how successful i was. If i finished the season with a 'Continental' reputation around 8000 points, it would drop to 7400 and i'd become 'National' again. The cycle would repeat every season.

I could win the Ligue, both Domestic cups and the Champions League, but to compensate for the poor League reputation, the game would reduce my club reputation, so i couldn't become 'Worldwide'. In my eyes, it's a very blunt method of ensuring League attactiveness remains static.

I can see why it's needed though, because the current League attractiveness as we know it now could get turned on it's head inside 10-20 years in FM, quite unrealistic.

What wage is he on and what wage would he be on at Hull. Is this money driven?

You are playing in Norway. That explains it. Even if you have won the CL, nobody will trust you to repeat this, nor will you be in the financial position to compete even with an average EPL club. Plus playing in Norway's league for the up-and-away-runner is just less challenging than playing in a more competitive league.

I know, but still, it hasn't been a flukey win... that's my European history thus far:

2009: Europa League Quarterfinals

2010: 3rd in CL Group Stage/EL 1st knockout

2011: 3rd in CL Group Stage/EL 2nd knockout

2012: 3rd in CL Group Stage/EL 2nd knockout

2013: CL 1st knockout

2014: CL 1st knockout

2015: CL Quarterfinals

2016: CL Winner/ Euro Super Cup/World Club Champion

That's hardly a one-off thing.... So despite the lack of attractiveness of the Norwegian league, my results in Europe are on par with what the likes of Roma, Juventus or Arsenal could achieve...

My bank balance is +23M after having built AND expanded a new stadium... it was +85M before the relocation. Transfer budget is 60M.

We aren't Chelsea or Barça, but surely better than Hull?

Hence also Rangers and Celtic struggle to attract world class players irl.

That's how football works.

Take rl Ajax as another example. Just after they won the Champions League all players were happy to leave to anywhere for more money and bigger leagues.

Ajax'es top stars left for top clubs in Italy and Spain... Quite hard to imagine Seedorf or Overmars [not to mention Van Basten or Bergkamp] joining Bologna or Sunderland...

What wage is he on and what wage would he be on at Hull. Is this money driven?

I don't think it's about money... Hull are in debt already...

He's on a 700k p/y contract, I'm now proposing a 1.2M p/y...

I had the same problem with af Brøndby save back in FM08. Despite winning every national competetion in 10+ years and reaching the CL-semi finals 4 years in a row, my club rep actually fell below the clubs initital reputation (and it was actually only the 3rd or 4th best in the country!)

This really ruined the game for me and i hasnt been able to have a fun game with them since, wich i hate because its my favorit club. Hopefully it will change in one of the next FM's to come

The longer SI take to implement dynamic league reps the more it'll bite them in the ass if (when they implement it) it fails... :c

Or maybe it's taking them so long because they want to be sure it doesn't fail .

The OP's example, IMO, is not a problem. Doesn't matter how well Rosenberg do in the CL, any player would jump at the chance to move to the Premier League or La Liga or Serie A.

However, it IS still a bit of a problem. Certainly within leagues. Take Newcastle to the League title and three CL wins by 2018, and your star striker will still get annoyed when Man U or Liverpool come a-calling, despite being average mid-table teams for the past 3-4 years.

I don't think League reputation should change just because of ONE successful team, but within leagues, team reps should definitely alter more frequently - both up and down.

It's annoying me in my game that I'm Spurs, and I'm challenging the top two of Man City and Liverpool (in 2032) for the title, but 4 of my big players were getting interest from top clubs and I've been almost forced to sell them, though I agreed to do it at the end of the season.

The problem is, that one of the clubs is Valencia, a team I beat twice in the UEFA cup. So the player is going to a club which isn't in the champs league, and is demonstrably worse than my team. At a time when we've got a real shout of winning the league. The other players are going to Real, Sevilla and Man City respectively, which I can understand as they do have Champs League footy and do challenge for titles, though I've beaten City a few times. Though it'd be nice if the game could make the players realise that they have every chance of success this season with me, and don't need to leave.

Though at the end of the day, the £100million I'm raising from selling the 4 of them cushions the blow somewhat.

IM doing a porto, season im in 2015/16 season won champs league last season and in my 3rd season , won the league and cups all 6 times and hulk, my top goal scorer got 60 last season, also im on a 177 match unbeaten run , needing a new challenge, but want stadium named after me

IM doing a porto, season im in 2015/16 season won champs league last season and in my 3rd season , won the league and cups all 6 times and hulk, my top goal scorer got 60 last season, also im on a 177 match unbeaten run , needing a new challenge, but want stadium named after me

Using the corner cheat much

One doesn't need to use the corner cheat to score 60.

When I was with Madrid a player scored 50 goals, only in the league. In total 89 goals from 54 caps that season.

He scored almost half of my team goals

(his total score so far is 203 goals in 187 apps for Real)

He's on a 700k p/y contract, I'm now proposing a 1.2M p/y...

700k Per year is only £13.5k per week (I assume you are using pounds), that is a tiny wage by premiership wages. First team regulars in the Premiership at Hull earn around up to 35k, but typically on my save they are on 23K per week, which is on par with your 1.2M p/y offer.

Weirdly there Key players are all on less money. Earning about 13K per week.

If you are using Euros, then things swing back in favour of the premiership being a cash cow.

I have not played out side of England on this save, so I am not the one to comment, but I do hope they bring in some changes to the league reputations to help with these issues.

Players also often see it as a stepping stone, As in, they'll go to Hull, just to be in the EPL in the hope of impressing one of the big four and win a big money move to them.. If a player thinks he's got what it takes, it may be worth having a season or two without European football to have a better chance of getting to the top..

It is annoying, but loads of players transfer to clubs as a 'stepping stone' to bigger and better things..

I know this isn't my first rant about Club reputations, unsettled players and stupid transfers, but the whole thing has now become unbearable.

Last season, 2016-17, I won my first ever Champions League with Rosenborg (after having made the Group Stage since 2010 and the Knockout Stage since 2013).

Then I also reported the European Supercup and the World Club Championship to seal the treble.

Everything's going a-okay, even the backups aren't complaining much... just the overly "sensitive" players are worried about team harmony...

Then the january 2018 transfer window rolls around... Hull City offers 7M for my Cameroonian AMC, one of the Top Guys in my team.

I turn the offer down and...

He's ANGRY AT ME because he wanted to move to Hull f'n City!!!

So I check, out of curiosity... maybe the Tigers have become a top EPL club and I hadn't noticed... Nope, their finishing position ranged from 8th to 12th...

They're currently 2nd, but I suppose it won't last... And their balance is -10M too...

And just for more curiosity, I check the clubs' reputation with FMRTE...

Mine is 6500ish, while Hull is 6800ish...

Now, explain me how a mid-table EPL act can still be more "popular" and desirable than a Treble-winning, Champions League regular, ranked 4th in the world...

I could live with my reputation being lower than one of the Top Four in England, Italy or Spain...

I can accept a Champions League win is still perceived as a "fluke", but if 10 years of solid results in Europe aren't enough to make a club surpass in reputation the whole lot of mid-table acts in bigger leagues, than I really don't know what's the point of playing outside of the Big Four...

Come on... Champions Legue winners Porto sold their leading stars to Chelsea and Barça, not to Bolton or Betis...

And I quite doubt Deco or Carvalho would have put their foot down to leave Porto for such clubs, despite the league having a better standard/rep.

So please, please, PLEASE, can we get a better reputation system next year?

What's the point in being ranked among the Top 10 and winning left and right if your star players will want to leave as soon as a craptacular EPL/Liga/Serie A side makes an offer?

What's the point in winning a lot, if the reputation is still "National"? Do we have to win the World Cup against Brazil in order to get continental reputation? Or to get a better reputation than bottom-half English clubs...

With you to the last word! It's extremely annoying!

Players also often see it as a stepping stone, As in, they'll go to Hull, just to be in the EPL in the hope of impressing one of the big four and win a big money move to them.. If a player thinks he's got what it takes, it may be worth having a season or two without European football to have a better chance of getting to the top..

It is annoying, but loads of players transfer to clubs as a 'stepping stone' to bigger and better things..

The problem in FM is that the players don't recognize their own ability. Even if the player has bigger clubs interested in him and he has the ability to play in an European Giant he still gladly accepts to join Sunderland or Hull City.

It'd be like expecting Di Maria to join Bolton IRL.

RBKalle

I don't know how against it you are but a quick look at the Cameroonian AMC's CA might be revealing. As far as I can tell the emphasis in terms of what players big clubs are attracted to is still heavily skewed towards CA (and/or PA depending on age), so it may be a case of you overachieving without having any 'stars' worthy of big club interest. Static CA argument or not enough weighting attributed to performance in terms of how the AI judges a player.

I realise I'm shifting the discussion away from league reputation, but reading the supporting arguments re Kluivert, Deco et al, that springs to mind as much as reputation potentially needing looking at.

It's annoying me in my game that I'm Spurs, and I'm challenging the top two of Man City and Liverpool (in 2032) for the title, but 4 of my big players were getting interest from top clubs and I've been almost forced to sell them, though I agreed to do it at the end of the season.

The problem is, that one of the clubs is Valencia, a team I beat twice in the UEFA cup. So the player is going to a club which isn't in the champs league, and is demonstrably worse than my team. At a time when we've got a real shout of winning the league. The other players are going to Real, Sevilla and Man City respectively, which I can understand as they do have Champs League footy and do challenge for titles, though I've beaten City a few times. Though it'd be nice if the game could make the players realise that they have every chance of success this season with me, and don't need to leave.

Though at the end of the day, the £100million I'm raising from selling the 4 of them cushions the blow somewhat.

Do you have other leagues active? I don't know if it still applies to FM10 but on previous versions club reputation stayed stagnant for non active leagues. So Valencia will still have roughly the same rep as they had at the start of the game if the Spanish league is not active, pretty much regardless of what they have done in game in terms of European performance.

I would love to see a 'virtual' league table implemented in these cases based on how the game decides which clubs get into what European competitions when being selected from non-active leagues. Not sure how exactly you'd code that though...

Or alternatively researchers should be given guidelines for club reps based on how the algorithm works in game. So Liverpool for example, if they had a season in FM like they had in real life then their reputation would take a hit in game, so their starting database rep for FM11 would reflect this in game mechanic. Yet I'm pretty certain Liverpool's rep will still be that of a Champion's League team when FM11 is released because they are still considered a worldwide club in real life and that's how the researchers appear to choose the value.

right, i wasnt going to say owt, but thats now 2 people have mentioned sunderland when coming up with names of undesirable, crap english clubs. Can i just remind you that we have one of the highest average attendances in the country, and only 5 clubs (man utd, liverpool, arsenal, villa and everton) have won the top flight on more occasions than we have. Gan and pick on Stoke, or Wigan, or West Brom or someone

Anyway, rant over- it is frustrating that the game does this. I often like the challenge of taking a team from an "unfancied" league and building them into being a genuine european attraction, but it is almost impossible. Players always just want to leave straight away to go to the premier league- i realise it would take ages for a club from a league with lower reputation to be able to compete with bigger clubs from elsewhere, but if you have the money (earned by winning CL titles etc) it should be possible

I don't think it's about money... Hull are in debt already...

He's on a 700k p/y contract, I'm now proposing a 1.2M p/y...

In my experience, an player for a mediocre PL side can get 30-40k per week (so up to 3x what you pay him). The Lambs said that in more detail.

Using the corner cheat much

But Hulk is perfect for it, no?

right' date=' i wasnt going to say owt, but thats now 2 people have mentioned sunderland when coming up with names of undesirable, crap english clubs. Can i just remind you that we have one of the highest average attendances in the country, and only 5 clubs (man utd, liverpool, arsenal, villa and everton) have won the top flight on more occasions than we have. Gan and pick on Stoke, or Wigan, or West Brom or someone[/quote']

I wouldn't rate Sunderland as a tremendously big team. Especially compared to Wigan and Stoke.

If you think that your performances genuinely made the Norwegian league more appealing to players, then in the name of all that is holy use FMRTE to increase your league rep and maybe your own rep. Don't overdo it, don't underdo it.

I also have problems with the club reputation. I'm with Bayer Leverkusen and quite successful (4 CL-titles, 8 league titles, 4 domestic cups in 10 years), still my club reputation is only 6900. I mean come on, I already had 7250 reputation at the start of the game.

I checked the reputation of some other clubs (Lyon, not active league, no international title since the begin, reputation 8500 - Manchester United, active league, 1 EPL title since the begin of the game, reputation 8600). What I found very strange: I won the domestic cup and the league last season and now at the start of the new season Cologne have climbed above me in terms of reputation without having won anything since the begin of the game. This definitely needs sorting out, it's ruining my game.

I'm with Bayer Leverkusen [..] now at the start of the new season Cologne have climbed above me [..] This definitely needs sorting out, it's ruining my game.

No, you just need to accept that there's only one team in Cologne and it's sure not your headache factory ;P

No, you just need to accept that there's only one team in Cologne and it's sure not your headache factory ;P

Nice, I'm from Bonn, too!

Rep seems like it's capped to an upper limit depending where you are in the world.

Overperform and rep-increases are 'balanced' downwards.

It's very linear, and not at all dynamic, which isn't all that good in a simulator.

It's just another one of the small flaws in the game that becomes gradually more noticable the futher into the future your savegame progresses.

Note, I'm not saying it's gamebreakingsortitoutSInow!! .... it's just a small initial flaw that only affects gameplay in limited way after a random period of time, and some of the flaws that start out small and largely unnoticable increase thier effect over time.

It's a ripple effect.

One way to change this is to adjust the league reps manualy at the end of every season.

Of course that opens it up to all sorts of abuse like editing your bitter rivals to all hate eachother and wipe out their bank ballance etc... (been there and done that before, just ruins the fun).

In my games as Rangers manager i usualy struggle in Europe in the first 2-3 seasons but there after i almost always improve year on year and by 2012 or 2013 im pushing into the last 8 or last 4 in the CL.

But as with everybody else at the end of every season no matter how well ive done the SPL's reputation means my teams reputation goes back to being crap and any decent player ive got no matter how much ive done for them will throw a hissy fit if i dont sell them.

Albiet i can usualy manage to hold out until the likes of AC Milan or Man City come calling... (Sold Danny Wilson to man City for £40m in my last career save in 2014) but its an uphill struggle every season as you can never establish a stable team.

For example the Scottish Premier League has a reputation of 13/20 while the English Premier league has a reputation of 19/20.

The trick i believe would be to upgrade your league by 1 point if the various teams in it manage to do well in Europe that season, and take one away if they do very badly.

Eventualy with continued success you will see your league rep getting to the point that you can actualy retain good players.

Its by no means perfect (or realistic) but its a hell of a lot better than constantly getting screwed by the AI because SI havent implemented dynamic league reputations yet.

The odd thing is the in-game World Ranking do take notice of teams' rise and fall... yet despite that the League Reputation is the deciding factor that prevents a "second-rate club from a second-rate league" from ever establishing itself...

Celtic could win 10 Champions League, being ranked #1 in the World, Scotland could get 3 CL spots and a Top Seeding in World/Euro Qualifiers, still the players would snub the SPL to join Lille or Wolves...

Absurd... what's the point of having team rankings and dynamic UEFA/FIFA coefficients if a club/nation will still get treated like Second Qualifying Round material?

P.S. I'd rather not use FMRTE to edit league rep, but I guess I have little choice... If the game can't handle itself, I'll have to adjust it manually.

P.S. I'd rather not use FMRTE to edit league rep, but I guess I have little choice... If the game can't handle itself, I'll have to adjust it manually.

That's what I did. But still this needs to be adressed.

Maybe he's a big fan of bridges, or tidal surge barriers?