AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

[BenArsenal]

Yeah well, even the most well behaved players lose it in the heat of the moment sometimes.

[HD]

It's an emotionally charged atmosphere.

[iacovone]

Even so, presumably they have professional, sportsmanship and discipline (?) at max so even in a highly charged atmosphere its very surprising to see him sent off! Aren't all the Bandits each others favoured personnel as well!?

[deltablue]

Wow, no love lost, adds an extra dimension. You couldn't make it up and thats why we love this. Shame it'll be a while for the next installment. Also, a correct prediction by me? To paraphrase Basil Fawlty, we ought to have it stuffed.

[Wegason]

I'm astonished England would sack Capello for a semi-final appearance at the European Championships, considering they didn't make the 2008 ones!

I think semi-final is good, its acceptable at the very least.

[daemonic]

I'm astonished England would sack Capello for a semi-final appearance at the European Championships, considering they didn't make the 2008 ones!

I think semi-final is good, its acceptable at the very least.

Depends what he said for his start of season expectations

[StewartJRobertson]

Well my predictions were all pretty awful to say the least. I wonder if Englands expectations increased due to the wealth of talent now at their disposal with the former Bandits. With so many near perfect players, maybe the FA thought losing in the semi just wasnt good enough.

[5ergio]

Was expecting Italy to lift the trophy but by chasing behind Spain. A little surprised by their upfront play style. A red card in the final? That's more than probable given such an eye of the storm players are in. Got to love FM for the randomness even though you think you have all under control

[Meitheisman]

Domenech was still in charge

[kipfizh]

I'm astonished with the sending off in such a high profile game.

Wasn't one of the things edited professionalism?

I wonder if it is the hidden stats that maybe have impacted here. I can't ever remember what they are now.

Just think that it's surprising that a player maxed out in cettain areas is still found wanting on the biggest stage.

What do you recon we missed? or do you think it was just that 1 in a million chance?

What has his disc record be like so far?

His record is superb, and all his mental traits would suggest him incapable of this.

I guess the two knew each other so well that Centre Back 3 knew something very personal to say about his mother.

[kipfizh]

Even so, presumably they have professional, sportsmanship and discipline (?) at max so even in a highly charged atmosphere its very surprising to see him sent off! Aren't all the Bandits each others favoured personnel as well!?

All the mental traits are maxed, but they don't have each other as favoured personnel.

[kipfizh]

Well my predictions were all pretty awful to say the least. I wonder if Englands expectations increased due to the wealth of talent now at their disposal with the former Bandits. With so many near perfect players, maybe the FA thought losing in the semi just wasnt good enough.

And to be fair, the FA are probably correct. Harsh, but any team with that amount of talent at their disposal should win.

But then, this is a cup, and Buffon was in form. And we're rubbish at penalties.

[kipfizh]

Incidentally, I forgot to mention, I tried out a slightly new writing style for the last seasonal report.

Previously, I would holiday the entire season, and then write it up. This meant that I stopped the game on May 31 each year, and wrote up everything from transfers onwards. In a way, you could argue that this affected how I wrote, because I knew what would happen later, although that may have helped with the story.

This time, now that I'm playing the game on full detail, that isn't so easy - FM is set not to bloat the save game too large, so although in FM07 I could look at the detail of any match played in the previous season, in this version, with so many leagues, it saves only around the last six weeks (of league football, anyway).

Not being able to see this information (you can't tell what order the goals in a 4-3 were scored, for example), is a bit restrictive, so for the last campaign, I holidayed a month at a time and wrote as I went. This meant that when I wrote about transfers, I had no idea how the season would pan out, and when I'm writing about the promotion battle in March, I didn't know whether it would be successful or not.

One down side of this approach is the CA consistency. When discussing summer transfers, I used to state the CA of the player on May 31 the following year, but now, the CA is stated as it was at the time the transfer happened. If you check out the transfer section (written a day after the window closed at the start of September) and the squad report section (written on May 31), some of the CAs have changed.

I guess the question is - what do you prefer? That I write the transfers/team report sections as I go, being in the dark as much as you are reading? Or holiday the whole lot?

Or did you not even notice the difference?

[brambleten]

i didnt notice a difference, but is that a bad thing? i like it when reading an update and the guy writing the update doesnt know what happens at the time of writing.

i got my quarter final predictions right, just lost out on one of the semis. England to win the Euros and the next world cup

[Blanco]

I guess the question is - what do you prefer? That I write the transfers/team report sections as I go, being in the dark as much as you are reading? Or holiday the whole lot?

Or did you not even notice the difference?

I would go with whatever's easiest for you, to be honest. Most of us won't have noticed, and it might make it more interesting with the promotion / relegation battles...

[StewartJRobertson]

Always been an advocate for the "whatevers easiest for you" approach kip, but if you are asking for personal preference, i think i prefer you writing as you go. The CA thing is actually a positive in my book. We see how good they were at the time when they were bought for £??? and we see whether they improve throughtout the season.

If i were writing the reports, i think i would find it more enjoyable to write as i go, not knowing what would happen next. It would give me more incentive to finish writing so i could find out.

[deltablue]

Well we're here for the details not the style so its not obvious. Clearly bit by bit is better, both in terms of what you can use as content and for you getting the experience.

[Sir_Liam]

at Striker 1 and Centre Back 3. Brilliant how this could happen.

[BenArsenal]

I guess with the game as it is now, sticking to your current writing style would work the best.

As other have said though, whatever works for you.

[DB1]

I'm in the school of "What ever you prefer to do mate"

I had'nt noticed a difference - excellent as always. plusses for both ways.

With the red card will CB3 dislike St1? Will we get our first Superstar fall out?

[Kertiz]

Brilliant as usual, my two highlights thus far have been Hull getting relegated due to the two idiots and Marcus Bent being the 43rd highest paid player in the world on £90k a week

Only criticism I would make is the players' stats. Because you've put them at 20 for all of them, that's left most of them around the 14 mark (due to the CA system). So you've got strikers with 14 marking for example, and defenders with 13 finishing. Perhaps you should have put the key stats for their positions (e.g. Finishing for Strikers, Passing for Midfielders, etc.) at 20 and then the rest at 12 or something. Its just left it a little bit fixed and also silly.

Anyways, looking forward to the next update, I remember staying up until 3am reading the last one

[iacovone]

Kip in my experiment I have 6 dates each year that I holiday to and save:

1st Sept

31st Dec

1st Feb

1st April

20th June

1st July

That way I can do midseason reports with the ability to click and look at the match reports. It also means I can do more detailed transfer window updates as I go along as well - meaning I can see what impact the new signings have.

[Meitheisman]

I guess the question is - what do you prefer? That I write the transfers/team report sections as I go, being in the dark as much as you are reading? Or holiday the whole lot?

Or did you not even notice the difference?

Like pretty much everyone said I'll go for whatever is easier for you but although I couldn't put my finger on it I thought something was special about the last update. Maybe it has nothing to do with the writing style but I did enjoy the last update more so if you'd like my personal opinion I'd vote for type as you go. I also like the point someone made about it giving you an incentive to write faster in order to find out what happens.

[Berrern]

Great stuff as always Kip!

I also vote for the month-by-month writing style. I couldn't put my finger on what it was when I read it, but I liked the last update immensely!

Only criticism I would make is the players' stats. Because you've put them at 20 for all of them, that's left most of them around the 14 mark (due to the CA system). So you've got strikers with 14 marking for example, and defenders with 13 finishing. Perhaps you should have put the key stats for their positions (e.g. Finishing for Strikers, Passing for Midfielders, etc.) at 20 and then the rest at 12 or something. Its just left it a little bit fixed and also silly.

In my opinion, this is a good thing. It will show us how the training regimes can transform players in FM.

For example, after another 5 years, I'm sure the strikers will have less marking, and higher finishing.

I'm not sure how the AI does the training, but I myself use different regimes for each position, and I often see players dropping in non-important attributes, while growing in the important ones.

[kipfizh]

Kip in my experiment I have 6 dates each year that I holiday to and save:

1st Sept

31st Dec

1st Feb

1st April

20th June

1st July

That way I can do midseason reports with the ability to click and look at the match reports. It also means I can do more detailed transfer window updates as I go along as well - meaning I can see what impact the new signings have.

Sounds pretty similar to mine, only I have a few dates in between - if I holiday all the way from Sep 1 to Dec 31 then I can't see the details of Sep/Oct games. So mine looks like this:

Jul 1

Sep 1 (Summer transfer report written here)

Nov 1

Dec 31 (Season report part 1 written here)

Feb 1 (January transfer report written here)

Apr 1

May 31 (End of season report written here)

Sounds fairly unanimous to write as I go, so I'll continue to do that - it is better for me as I can see more detail of what I'm writing about.

[Jimbokav1971]

I prefer the way you are doing it now Kip.

It sort of keeps us in suspense as we are reading, desperate to get to the end.

[5ergio]

Agreed to Jimbo. Write as you go, will create a bigger suspense with all the tiny details.

[Rocknrollpear]

A great read. I remember reading the 2007 thread. I remember that two of the original bandits of that became the natural successors to Maldini and Nesta at Milan in a similar way to the two centre backs have gone to Barcelona on this experiment on 09.

I personally thought the Sherriffs would struggle due to them having to pretty much create their own squads from the start. It has proven however that money talks and I suspect their wage bill is higher than most Championship teams. Same goes for the Bandits.

Im thinking of starting my own experiment after enduring endless banter on the footy-mad forums for my team Doncaster Rovers. Forest and Leeds fans continually come on the message boards boasting how much better they are despite league positions becasue of their teams past success. Imagine if Nottingham Forest and Leeds plight from the top divisions had resulted in them going into freefall and obscurity to the Blue Sq N/S, and if Doncaster Rovers situation of the 90's (where former chairman Ken Richardson decided to cash in, attempt to burn down the ground for insurance cash and play youth players and local sunday league players) was from a more established background of 70's European success. Mix the two together and we have a team that has fallen into the Blue Square North or perhaps just made it back there after a decade of football in the regional football leagues. A chairman decides to buy, and the old stadium has just been renovated and still has the air of 70's European success airing around it. The time for revival is now! But the process will be done on the fact that this club were once mighty. Which ambitious young players who would perhaps be playing in the squads of other teams in that league anyway, fancy a crack at resurrecting this fallen star?

The experiment will be to see how a team with massive European success can perform given that this is the only real attractiveness to their club. It will see how a 'Notts Forest' type club will fare of Football manager after so many real supporters of these types of clubs believe they have a divine right to success siimply because their teams history shows good heritage. What im looking to do is create a database with a team in the Blue Square South to see how a series of implications over the last decade has seen them in the mire of clinging onto existence despite a series of European conquests (possibly set their history to 4 times European Cup Winners), and make the scenario that of:-

>The team having appointed a new ambitious chairman and board offering a new level of stability without being able to financially outmuscle their opponents in the same league.

>A good sized stadium emulating that they have previously been a big club and still have a large catchment area and big fan base.

>Scenario where the club may have (like Doncaster Rovers) sufffered a scenario where ex chairman tried to burn down the ground, and they must rise based on foundations of good facilities, good stadium and heritage being the attraction to the club.

>Top youth setup like Leeds should result in situations like Leeds (Fabian Delph etc) where hopefully these players will be the basis of the clubs success rather than paying ridiculous wages in order to get players able to compete at that level.

>Clubs reputation will be an average of a host of clubs that fall into the category of sleeping giant/past Euro Champs/and fallen stars. So Forests reputation, Charlton, Accrington, i will think of others and research their reputation in game based on past success.

>Chairman will be an ambitous man but not willing to pump stupid amounts of money in.

>Jouneymen may be included in the original squads team. Players 33+ who were perhaps kids when the Euro success was happening, and fancy being a part of a new era as they reach the end of their playing days. The rest of the squad just players who fit the league. Young lads.

Aim of the experiment to see how reputation despite it being from success many decades ago can influence the rise of a once successful team. See if they might seem a more attractive proposition to players when the transfer windows come by, despite having interest from a team a league above.

Watch for the new thread. Any other factors/suggestions for starting conditions would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[Wegason]

Advertising in someone else's thread is a faux pas, take it somewhere else, like perhaps the ideas thread?

[Rocknrollpear]

Advertising? What? iV BEEN A FAN OF THIS THREAD SINCE THE STARTIN 2007 and was simply insprired to create an experiment that coincides with my clubs rivalry with past giants.

Long live the Bandits!!!! Im even on the Facebook group!!!

[Wegason]

Just because your a fan, like everyone else here, doesn't mean you were not advertising. Like I said, i think your experiment discussion/idea should go in the ideas thread if you want feedback.

[Rocknrollpear]

Where is the ideas thread please?

[Rocknrollpear]

Kip, just out of interest. Did Doncaster win the league 1 title? You mentioned they were 9 points clear at one point. Would be interested to see who they managed to keep hold of after the drop from the Championship and who they managed to bring in.

Im guessing Matt Mills, Stock, Coppinger, Wellens and Heffernan moved on.

I dont suppose you could do a screenie of their squad list could you? Pleeeeeease.

As for the change in writing style, I remember on the 2007 thread you toyed with us by leaving a few cliffhangers despite already knowing the final outcomes. Thats what I loved about the thread. Made the thread a real mans soap!!! ( :

[StewartJRobertson]

Im with Wegason on this one. Good idea for an experiment, but it doesnt belong in here. Fan or no fan.

[Wegason]

Where is the ideas thread please?

Ideas Thread

[Vintage]

KIP. I'd say keep with the new format. If just doing it on May 31st hinders us getting some information then its worth doing it one month at a time.

[RonnySanchez]

Incidentally, I forgot to mention, I tried out a slightly new writing style for the last seasonal report.

Previously, I would holiday the entire season, and then write it up. This meant that I stopped the game on May 31 each year, and wrote up everything from transfers onwards. In a way, you could argue that this affected how I wrote, because I knew what would happen later, although that may have helped with the story.

This time, now that I'm playing the game on full detail, that isn't so easy - FM is set not to bloat the save game too large, so although in FM07 I could look at the detail of any match played in the previous season, in this version, with so many leagues, it saves only around the last six weeks (of league football, anyway).

Not being able to see this information (you can't tell what order the goals in a 4-3 were scored, for example), is a bit restrictive, so for the last campaign, I holidayed a month at a time and wrote as I went. This meant that when I wrote about transfers, I had no idea how the season would pan out, and when I'm writing about the promotion battle in March, I didn't know whether it would be successful or not.

One down side of this approach is the CA consistency. When discussing summer transfers, I used to state the CA of the player on May 31 the following year, but now, the CA is stated as it was at the time the transfer happened. If you check out the transfer section (written a day after the window closed at the start of September) and the squad report section (written on May 31), some of the CAs have changed.

I guess the question is - what do you prefer? That I write the transfers/team report sections as I go, being in the dark as much as you are reading? Or holiday the whole lot?

Or did you not even notice the difference?

It is certainly so that you should do whatever is easier for you but I think that it would be nice to get two or maybe three separate reports one only about silly season that ends with summer transfer window closing after which there would be some time (a week or so) to speculate and discuss what will happen in the fall. One report for the first half of the season after which there would be some time to discuss and speculate about the January transfer window and the outcome of the whole season and one end season report where the most of the data would be presented.

[djosey]

Wow any way to have a link in the first post to the updates, and only the updates? I have no motivation to go through all the pages to find out what happened! (yeah i know, lazy, but well:))

[Guest mordib]

To make it easy for people trying to catch up

Season 08/09

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=2946303#post2946303

season 09/10

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=3026965#post3026965

world cup

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=3054612#post3054612

season 10/11

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=3304904#post3304904

season 11/12

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=3387772#post3387772

European Championship

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=3399599#post3399599

[John Problem]

Nice touch mordib

[Whiss]

any news?

[PaulB75]

any news?

There`s been lots actually - apparently Michael Jackson died, and some scot is about to choke at Wimbledon ...

[Jimbokav1971]

There`s been lots actually - apparently Michael Jackson died, and some scot is about to choke at Wimbledon ...

In his defence, I don't think Murray is a choker. He might get his arse handed to him on a plate my a certain Mr Federer, but I don't think he will lose to anyone else.

Seems funny that so many people have a downer on him and yet treat "Tiger" Tim like a hero even though he was never half the player that Murray is now and Murray is only going to get better.

Very strange attitude us Brits have to our National Sportsmen.

Eddie "The Eagle" Edwards.

Frank "Beat yer wife up and get knocked out by a Journeyman fighter" Bruno.

Paul "Gazza" Gascoigne. Should have gone down in history as one of the greatest players to ever play but simply urinated it all away.

Paula "Choker" Radcliffe. Now there is a choker. There's always somethin. It's too hot or too humid or too hilly or she neaded to urinate too badly.

We're a strange old bunch us Brits. Certainly the media are responsible for a fair whack of it but it's not all them:o.

[williamshankley]

In his defence, I don't think Murray is a choker. He might get his arse handed to him on a plate my a certain Mr Federer, but I don't think he will lose to anyone else.

Seems funny that so many people have a downer on him and yet treat "Tiger" Tim like a hero even though he was never half the player that Murray is now and Murray is only going to get better.

Very strange attitude us Brits have to our National Sportsmen.

Eddie "The Eagle" Edwards.

Frank "Beat yer wife up and get knocked out by a Journeyman fighter" Bruno.

Paul "Gazza" Gascoigne. Should have gone down in history as one of the greatest players to ever play but simply urinated it all away.

Paula "Choker" Radcliffe. Now there is a choker. There's always somethin. It's too hot or too humid or too hilly or she neaded to urinate too badly.

We're a strange old bunch us Brits. Certainly the media are responsible for a fair whack of it but it's not all them:o.

I agree with this

[Denther]

I think that the Bandits thread is a thinly veiled CSE off-topic thread

[Meitheisman]

Not completely off-topic but slightly, with Real Madrid's current spending spree the Bandits buying their way up the leagues doesn't seem that unrealistic anymore

[civilservant]

The bandits aren't bank rolled by the Spanish Goverment though.,..

(Yes that's right, a sour manc talking )

[polistus]

Not completely off-topic but slightly, with Real Madrid's current spending spree the Bandits buying their way up the leagues doesn't seem that unrealistic anymore

The same applies to Manchester City in my game (I'm managing Arsenal) - buying their way up the leagues! They spent no less than £143M on new signings!!!

[GreyedOutMan]

Anyone fancy a game of predictions? For me:

Bandits and Sherriffs both to go up to the Championship this season, Bandits will cruise it, winning 90% of their games, Sherriffs will probably need the playoffs. Nardiello will be the big player for the Bandits next year, but the Sheriffs will buy in a lot of big names (for that level), probably meaning that big prospects such as Milner and Philiskirk never quite reach their potential. Edging towards being a Sheriffs fan, mainly due to the ex-Spurs/Man Utd influence in the Bandits squad, albeit Nardiello never made it at OT.

Could see one of the two having a really good run in one of the cups. Probably wont win it, but perhaps a trip to Wembley in a cup semi? With the right teams in the rest of the semi final line-up, even that would be enough to give them Europa League football next year...

Oh and both teams will probably break their transfer records this year. Kip - can you give us a records section with that sort of info? Transfer records, most appearances, most goals, and so on?

[iacovone]

I think both will remain in league 1 personally. I think the Sheriffs will close the gap before beating the Bandits to the Championship the following year . I sense a sustained period of mediocrity for the Bandits \o/