[WIP] [FM20] England down to Level 11

[marcMCFC1986]

This is amazing.

 

As a player of Football/Championship Manager for over 20 years, I have never even looked at these databases with the lower leagues in - I've always done a save with Man City (even before we were rich), and sometimes my local club, Stockport County.

 

But now, thanks to this, I've started a save with a club that is less than 1km from my house, and which I go past every day on my way to/from work - Wythenshawe Town! Starting with a squad with zero players in, and signing everybody on a pay-as-you-play basis is a refreshing change from the usual 'Name your price' approach I have at Man City, when I want to sign a player.

 

Great work! And, "Thank you" to the creator of this!

[lionel messi]

On 27/04/2020 at 14:24, marcMCFC1986 said:

This is amazing.

 

As a player of Football/Championship Manager for over 20 years, I have never even looked at these databases with the lower leagues in - I've always done a save with Man City (even before we were rich), and sometimes my local club, Stockport County.

 

But now, thanks to this, I've started a save with a club that is less than 1km from my house, and which I go past every day on my way to/from work - Wythenshawe Town! Starting with a squad with zero players in, and signing everybody on a pay-as-you-play basis is a refreshing change from the usual 'Name your price' approach I have at Man City, when I want to sign a player.

 

Great work! And, "Thank you" to the creator of this!

You are welcome enjoy.

[CityAndColour]

Is anyone else experiencing a high number of red cards on this database?

No idea if it is linked but I am up to nine straight reds in a season and a half now, along with another two for second yellows. No idea if it's linked to the database but I'm using a tactic that has never resulted in ill-discipline before.

[lionel messi]

9 hours ago, CityAndColour said:

Is anyone else experiencing a high number of red cards on this database?

No idea if it is linked but I am up to nine straight reds in a season and a half now, along with another two for second yellows. No idea if it's linked to the database but I'm using a tactic that has never resulted in ill-discipline before.

I have not changed anything to influence this, is it happening to alot of peoples saves?

[lionel messi]

Im working on the file to make 24 teams in the 2nd season in the Vanarama national north/south.

Edited April 29, 2020 by lionel messi

[krakonico]

2 hours ago, lionel messi said:

I have not changed anything to influence this, is it happening to alot of peoples saves?

I'm testing yours, and haven't got that.  Besides, I'm using a created club in the depth of the pyramid, and only played two seasons by now.

[Ivs]

2 ore fa, lionel messi ha scritto:

Im working on the file to make 24 teams in the 2nd season in the Vanarama national north/south.

lionel, try to implement correct relegations for Level 6, PPG for Level 7 & 8 and the new format for Isthmian League Cup, too.

[lionel messi]

1 hour ago, Ivs said:

lionel, try to implement correct relegations for Level 6, PPG for Level 7 & 8 and the new format for Isthmian League Cup, too.

There will be ppg at a few levels to make the numbers work.

I dont think i wil be altering the isthmian league cup as i dont want to mess up the calendar with all the extra games.

[Ivs]

15 minuti fa, lionel messi ha scritto:

I dont think i wil be altering the isthmian league cup as i dont want to mess up the calendar with all the extra games.

It's unrealistic at the moment because it still has an outdated format. I don't think extra games will be a problem, so please fix it if you can.

https://www.betvictoristhmian.co.uk/the-velocity-trophy-new-season-new-format-57914

 

[lionel messi]

14 minutes ago, Ivs said:

It's unrealistic at the moment because it still has an outdated format. I don't think extra games will be a problem, so please fix it if you can.

https://www.betvictoristhmian.co.uk/the-velocity-trophy-new-season-new-format-57914

 

I might have a go once ive sorted leagues out.

But can you even do it in the editor where a drawn game gets 1 point each and goes to penalties, then the winner gets a extra point.

[Ivs]

6 minuti fa, lionel messi ha scritto:

I might have a go once ive sorted leagues out.

But can you even do it in the editor where a drawn game gets 1 point each and goes to penalties, then the winner gets a extra point.

It's not so simple for me because you have to set group stages only for Level 8 teams. Furthermore, these groups must be sorted geographically.

[lionel messi]

54 minutes ago, Ivs said:

It's not so simple for me because you have to set group stages only for Level 8 teams. Furthermore, these groups must be sorted geographically.

Yeah i have not done that before either, it could be problematic, i will see how i get on.

[andydick]

21 hours ago, lionel messi said:

I have not changed anything to influence this, is it happening to alot of peoples saves?

Starting my third season using this database and not seeing any abnormal number of red cards.  Infact we only had a couple during each season which is probably below what you would expect in real life.  Fantastic work though in getting this database up and running plus the fact the second season is spot on as we move from 23 to 24 teams in L1 and adjust the number of promotions/relegations accordingly.

 

20 hours ago, lionel messi said:

Im working on the file to make 24 teams in the 2nd season in the Vanarama national north/south.

Nice. That's a lot of work as it ties in with the whole re-structuring we were expecting to see at the end of this season.

 - 24 teams in the Vanarama North and South
- 2 relegations from VAN and VAS
- 10 relegations from step 7 (2 per divison plus 2 more based on PPG)
- no guaranteed relegations from step 8 - instead play-offs between step 8 bottom sides and step 9 winners
- introduction of the new step 8 division.

 

16 hours ago, lionel messi said:

I might have a go once ive sorted leagues out.

But can you even do it in the editor where a drawn game gets 1 point each and goes to penalties, then the winner gets a extra point.

The new Isthmian League Cup (Velocity Trophy) is bizarre especially in the way the points work.  After the last league re-structure (at the end of 2018) Isthmian step 8 lost 4 teams per division (24 to 20).  In 2018/19 clubs had lost 8 league games (46 to 38) so ended up playing friendlies during their league season to keep players match fit.  Then in 2019/20 they thought adding a group stage to the Velocity Trophy was a way of addressing the fixture issue and also compensating for that loss in gate revenue.  Essentially replacing 4 home league games with 2/3 home cup games.  A few sides didn't bother entering the competition which explains why instead of 10 groups of 6 we ended up with 6 groups of 6 and 4 groups of 5.  Fortunately for us (I do a lot of voluntary stuff for Hornchurch in step 7) we joined the competition at the knock-out stage, after all this group stage malarkey.  I expect the format will remain though if it was deemed financially viable.

Edited April 30, 2020 by andydick

[lionel messi]

2 hours ago, andydick said:

Starting my third season using this database and not seeing any abnormal number of red cards.  Infact we only had a couple during each season which is probably below what you would expect in real life.  Fantastic work though in getting this database up and running plus the fact the second season is spot on as we move from 23 to 24 teams in L1 and adjust the number of promotions/relegations accordingly.

 

Nice. That's a lot of work as it ties in with the whole re-structuring we were expecting to see at the end of this season.

 - 24 teams in the Vanarama North and South
- 2 relegations from VAN and VAS
- 10 relegations from step 7 (2 per divison plus 2 more based on PPG)
- no guaranteed relegations from step 8 - instead play-offs between step 8 bottom sides and step 9 winners
- introduction of the new step 8 division.

 

The new Isthmian League Cup (Velocity Trophy) is bizarre especially in the way the points work.  After the last league re-structure (at the end of 2018) Isthmian step 8 lost 4 teams per division (24 to 20).  In 2018/19 clubs had lost 8 league games (46 to 38) so ended up playing friendlies during their league season to keep players match fit.  Then in 2019/20 they thought adding a group stage to the Velocity Trophy was a way of addressing the fixture issue and also compensating for that loss in gate revenue.  Essentially replacing 4 home league games with 2/3 home cup games.  A few sides didn't bother entering the competition which explains why instead of 10 groups of 6 we ended up with 6 groups of 6 and 4 groups of 5.  Fortunately for us (I do a lot of voluntary stuff for Hornchurch in step 7) we joined the competition at the knock-out stage, after all this group stage malarkey.  I expect the format will remain though if it was deemed financially viable.

Im having alot of trouble getting it to work and i think it has something to do with ppg, ppg works good for vanarama north/south but i think it causes problems when run in other levels.

Is it possible to have ppg run alongside the league rather than add a extra stage once the league season has finished? (anyone have any advise on this or how to do it would be very welcome)

- 24 teams in the Vanarama North and South.
- 2 relegations from VAN and VAS. It would have to be 3 relegations due to the knockon effect from bury, so 1 less team relegated.
- 10 relegations from step 7. (2 per divison plus 2 more based on PPG) Again it would have to be 9 relegations due to the knockon effect from bury, so again 1 less team relegated.
- no guaranteed relegations from step 8 - instead play-offs between step 8 bottom sides and step 9 winners
- introduction of the new step 8 division. I dont think i will be putting the extra division in at level 8 because i have tried it before and i couldnt get it to work.

The new isthmian league cup format, i will probally just leave it as it is because im unsure how to do groups.

[lionel messi]

Im thinking of taking off the ppg off most levels to try and get it to work with 24 teams in vanarama national north/south. it wont verify for some reason when you have multiple levels using ppg.

I might just have inter divisional playoffs just to try and get it right. it would be for only 1 season anyway.

or i could just decide which leagues get the extra relegation places, again will be for only 1 season.

What does everyone think?

[andydick]

3 hours ago, lionel messi said:

Im thinking of taking off the ppg off most levels to try and get it to work with 24 teams in vanarama national north/south. it wont verify for some reason when you have multiple levels using ppg.

I might just have inter divisional playoffs just to try and get it right. it would be for only 1 season anyway.

or i could just decide which leagues get the extra relegation places, again will be for only 1 season.

What does everyone think?

 

For step 7, I guess inter-divisional play-offs is the fairest way but it sounds to me like it will be quite difficult to implement seeing as you'll only be relegating 1 out of the 4 third bottom sides.  Presumably the 4 third bottom sides would play-off, the 2 losers then play-off and the loser of that goes down.  If that would indeed be the approach (and it is hard to do) then I'd just pick one of the 4 divisions to relegate 3 instead of 2.  If you did that it might be worth explaining to us simpletons how we could select one of the other divisions if we didn't like your choice.

 

[FCUtdWill]

On 29/04/2020 at 17:05, Ivs said:

It's not so simple for me because you have to set group stages only for Level 8 teams. Furthermore, these groups must be sorted geographically.

If you don’t sort them geographically it’s easy to do, but it’s getting the Premier Division teams to join in the knockout stages that’s the problem I had a few weeks ago.

[ratio1618]

On 23/04/2020 at 19:21, timmarkcorcoran said:

Great work on the logos.

To be really cheeky, any chance you have the kits laying around too

Oh hell no hahaha. Some of those Tier 11 clubs logos were hard enough to find let alone the kits.

[lionel messi]

On 01/05/2020 at 00:29, andydick said:

 

For step 7, I guess inter-divisional play-offs is the fairest way but it sounds to me like it will be quite difficult to implement seeing as you'll only be relegating 1 out of the 4 third bottom sides.  Presumably the 4 third bottom sides would play-off, the 2 losers then play-off and the loser of that goes down.  If that would indeed be the approach (and it is hard to do) then I'd just pick one of the 4 divisions to relegate 3 instead of 2.  If you did that it might be worth explaining to us simpletons how we could select one of the other divisions if we didn't like your choice.

 

Im thinking of setting it up as a mini league once the regular season has finished.

The 4 teams play each other once and the bottom team gets relegated.

[timmarkcorcoran]

On 02/05/2020 at 10:32, ratio1618 said:

Oh hell no hahaha. Some of those Tier 11 clubs logos were hard enough to find let alone the kits.

all good mate, you never know what people have done if you don't ask

[mylescattle]

Hello, Thank you for your work. 

Do you know if Dial Square FC has been included in this database: https://twitter.com/DialSquareFC1

 

[lionel messi]

2 hours ago, mylescattle said:

Hello, Thank you for your work. 

Do you know if Dial Square FC has been included in this database: https://twitter.com/DialSquareFC1

 

What league are they in?

[mylescattle]

That's what I'm trying to figure out too. I think they applied to be in level 10, combined counties league next season, but it got rejected. I think they are in one of the leagues in level 11.

[lionel messi]

4 hours ago, mylescattle said:

That's what I'm trying to figure out too. I think they applied to be in level 10, combined counties league next season, but it got rejected. I think they are in one of the leagues in level 11.

Then they should be in it

[ratio1618]

On 02/05/2020 at 12:22, lionel messi said:

Im thinking of setting it up as a mini league once the regular season has finished.

The 4 teams play each other once and the bottom team gets relegated.

Considering this COVID **** and the fact that 20/21 rules are being applied in 21/22 you may as well make up the easiest possible way for clubs to form the "new" league strucure. Who cares how accurate it is, like you said its only for the first year.

As long as the rest of the years are the "new" format. Also in my current save on this file im pretty sure League one stays as 23 teams. I would have load it up to checkl but ith knthats the case.

[ratio1618]

Also the red card thing might be becuase the players generated in T10  and under have ******* hidden and visible attributes leading to worse tackles if you are pressing hard or taking more risks defensively. Most of the players at T10 -11 are MAX 30 -40 PA and average at like 10 -20 CA max

[lionel messi]

9 hours ago, ratio1618 said:

Considering this COVID **** and the fact that 20/21 rules are being applied in 21/22 you may as well make up the easiest possible way for clubs to form the "new" league strucure. Who cares how accurate it is, like you said its only for the first year.

As long as the rest of the years are the "new" format. Also in my current save on this file im pretty sure League one stays as 23 teams. I would have load it up to checkl but ith knthats the case.

I think you must be using a older version of the file because league 1 returns to 24 teams after the end of the 1st season.

[lionel messi]

9 hours ago, ratio1618 said:

Considering this COVID **** and the fact that 20/21 rules are being applied in 21/22 you may as well make up the easiest possible way for clubs to form the "new" league strucure. Who cares how accurate it is, like you said its only for the first year.

As long as the rest of the years are the "new" format. Also in my current save on this file im pretty sure League one stays as 23 teams. I would have load it up to checkl but ith knthats the case.

I have been trying to get 24 teams in the vanarama north/south after the 1st season.

When i verify it says can only find 23 teams but sometimes it verifys down to regional premier divisions then comes up with same error.

I will keep trying but i dont know why im getting this error.

[FCUtdWill]

On 07/05/2020 at 13:23, mylescattle said:

That's what I'm trying to figure out too. I think they applied to be in level 10, combined counties league next season, but it got rejected. I think they are in one of the leagues in level 11.

They’re not in any league in 2019-20, they plan to start in 2020-21 whenever that may be.

[ratio1618]

7 hours ago, lionel messi said:

I think you must be using a older version of the file because league 1 returns to 24 teams after the end of the 1st season.

More than likely im 13 seasons in and downloaded it a while ago. Just after i did all the Club badges for the DB.

 

 

7 hours ago, lionel messi said:

I have been trying to get 24 teams in the vanarama north/south after the 1st season.

When i verify it says can only find 23 teams but sometimes it verifys down to regional premier divisions then comes up with same error.

I will keep trying but i dont know why im getting this error.

Is it because of that seamingly hardcoded 3 place relegation set of rules for n/s

[Pablo Sanchez]

Do i add players to playable teams?

[ratio1618]

4 hours ago, Pablo Sanchez said:

Do i add players to playable teams?

Yes unless you want empty teams of grey players.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Cool thanks and coaches?

[Brother Ben]

5 hours ago, ratio1618 said:

Yes unless you want empty teams of grey players.

I wonder, if you add all uk & Ireland players and maybe holiday for a few seasons will the teams populate? 

Do teams with no players aggressively recruit players early on?

I may test this myself

[Dai35]

On 08/05/2020 at 19:22, lionel messi said:

I have been trying to get 24 teams in the vanarama north/south after the 1st season.

When i verify it says can only find 23 teams but sometimes it verifys down to regional premier divisions then comes up with same error.

I will keep trying but i dont know why im getting this error.

Hi,

Having looked at the english leagues every division from league 1 has 2 sets of rules (1 for the 19/20 season and 1 for the 20/21 and on season) so I think this may be able to be solved by having 1 set of rules for the 2019/2020 season and a duplicate set of rules starting in 2020/2021 for every extra division you add with the 19/20 rules having the i think it's called get extra lower division teams box ticked and 1 in the box and then in the 20/21 rules having it at zero but make sure all the promotion and relegation numbers are the correct amount for every level for that season on. I'm not sure if there is something else that needs changing aswell as this possibly the division to get the teams from.

Hope this helps you sort the issue out.

Dai

[krakonico]

5 hours ago, Brother Ben said:

I wonder, if you add all uk & Ireland players and maybe holiday for a few seasons will the teams populate? 

Do teams with no players aggressively recruit players early on?

I may test this myself

Sometimes, depending of the ranking of said players, and/or the ranking of the teams.  But even at the youth intake, they normally only take 5-7 players.  But in several years they get fully populated.  What is hard is to find staff if you go deeper in the pyramid.  Is better to untick "do not add staff" in the start of the save.  Or at least put early on a "Assistant Manager" ad and get the firs you can, once you can search for staff that may join your team.

[Brother Ben]

35 minutes ago, krakonico said:

Sometimes, depending of the ranking of said players, and/or the ranking of the teams.  But even at the youth intake, they normally only take 5-7 players.  But in several years they get fully populated.  What is hard is to find staff if you go deeper in the pyramid.  Is better to untick "do not add staff" in the start of the save.  Or at least put early on a "Assistant Manager" ad and get the firs you can, once you can search for staff that may join your team.

You're spot on with this, just holidayed for a season and a half and looking at a random league (York Premier, level 11) none of the clubs have signed a single player and the only players they have are the 5-7 from the intake as you suggested

[lionel messi]

8 hours ago, Dai35 said:

Hi,

Having looked at the english leagues every division from league 1 has 2 sets of rules (1 for the 19/20 season and 1 for the 20/21 and on season) so I think this may be able to be solved by having 1 set of rules for the 2019/2020 season and a duplicate set of rules starting in 2020/2021 for every extra division you add with the 19/20 rules having the i think it's called get extra lower division teams box ticked and 1 in the box and then in the 20/21 rules having it at zero but make sure all the promotion and relegation numbers are the correct amount for every level for that season on. I'm not sure if there is something else that needs changing aswell as this possibly the division to get the teams from.

Hope this helps you sort the issue out.

Dai

But that would not work because you have 4 extra teams in the vanarama north/south the following season.

[andydick]

Still loving this database, 4th season in starting from level 10.  One thing though I'm not so sure about is FA Cup replays.

In my second season (I wasn't in the FA Cup in season 1) I drew my extra preliminary round tie at home and it rightly went to a replay.  This season (season 4) I drew my 3rd Qualifying Round tie away.  Fully expecting a replay back at my gaff it went to extra time instead.  The competition rules in the game for the FA Cup state that after 90 minutes the game goes to 30 mins et + penalties which in my view is wrong.  I looked at season 4's FA Cup history and all rounds thus far have been played without replays.

Checking the database in the editor there are 3 FA Cup competitions in there, though 2 are marked as inactive.  The other one is correctly configured to have all rounds up to Round 4 Proper going to replays and single games from Round 5 onwards.

So not sure why in my season 4 there are no FA Cup replays at all, unless there are real life rule changes planned which is what's happening.  The FA Trophy works fine re replays.

Any thoughts?

EDIT: Just looked at the FA Cup history and in my first 3 seasons there were replays.  In season 4 however, season 2022/23, there are no replays.

Edited May 14, 2020 by andydick

[lionel messi]

6 hours ago, andydick said:

Still loving this database, 4th season in starting from level 10.  One thing though I'm not so sure about is FA Cup replays.

In my second season (I wasn't in the FA Cup in season 1) I drew my extra preliminary round tie at home and it rightly went to a replay.  This season (season 4) I drew my 3rd Qualifying Round tie away.  Fully expecting a replay back at my gaff it went to extra time instead.  The competition rules in the game for the FA Cup state that after 90 minutes the game goes to 30 mins et + penalties which in my view is wrong.  I looked at season 4's FA Cup history and all rounds thus far have been played without replays.

Checking the database in the editor there are 3 FA Cup competitions in there, though 2 are marked as inactive.  The other one is correctly configured to have all rounds up to Round 4 Proper going to replays and single games from Round 5 onwards.

So not sure why in my season 4 there are no FA Cup replays at all, unless there are real life rule changes planned which is what's happening.  The FA Trophy works fine re replays.

Any thoughts?

EDIT: Just looked at the FA Cup history and in my first 3 seasons there were replays.  In season 4 however, season 2022/23, there are no replays.

It could be because of the winter qatar world cup taking place that year.

[andydick]

8 hours ago, lionel messi said:

It could be because of the winter qatar world cup taking place that year.

Interesting thought - yes, could be that.  I'm a third of the way through season 4 (in fact I'm 2 days before the WC is due to start) so I'll be done in a couple of days.  Will wait to see what season 5 brings.

Thanks.

[andydick]

Just to follow up ...

Season 5 came and went and the FA Cup was back to playing replays again which is good, so it may well have been something to do with the 2022 Qatar World Cup.

Having finished 4th in the Northern Premier Division (tier 7) I was rightly drawn away to the side that finished 3rd.  However, rather than the game being played at the home of the 3rd placed team, it was instead played on a Neutral ground which isn't right.  All play-offs at tiers 7 and 8 (including the Finals) are played at the home of the side that finished highest in the table.  Not at neutral grounds.

Thanks.

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by andydick

[lionel messi]

1 hour ago, andydick said:

Just to follow up ...

Season 5 came and went and the FA Cup was back to playing replays again which is good, so it may well have been something to do with the 2022 Qatar World Cup.

Having finished 4th in the Northern Premier Division (tier 7) I was rightly drawn away to the side that finished 3rd.  However, rather than the game being played at the home of the 3rd placed team, it was instead played on a Neutral ground which isn't right.  All play-offs at tiers 7 and 8 (including the Finals) are played at the home of the side that finished highest in the table.  Not at neutral grounds.

Thanks.

 

I will check this and see what is set.

[lionel messi]

On 22/05/2020 at 11:48, lionel messi said:

I will check this and see what is set.

I will fix it in my latest update but you will have to start a new game to get the fix.

[lionel messi]

A new update coming soon with a few fixes.

[lewis999]

Is this database playable right now? 

Just wondered as you are releasing some new fixes. Thank you.

[lionel messi]

4 hours ago, lewis999 said:

Is this database playable right now? 

Just wondered as you are releasing some new fixes. Thank you.

Yeah it is playable right now. I should have the few fixes done in 3 or 4 days.

[lionel messi]

I am just doing a test and then i will release the updated file.

I finally got PPG to work for regional premier divisions for the 1st season and beyond.

Playoffs for level 7 & 8 fixed so now they are now played in home team stadium.

 

I noticed leagues at level 11 did not create history and hoping i have fixed that now, will find out after the 1st season test.

[andydick]

56 minutes ago, lionel messi said:

I am just doing a test and then i will release the updated file.

I finally got PPG to work for regional premier divisions for the 1st season and beyond.

Playoffs for level 7 & 8 fixed so now they are now played in home team stadium.

 

I noticed leagues at level 11 did not create history and hoping i have fixed that now, will find out after the 1st season test.

Good news.

Looking forward to re-starting a tier 7 save with my local side.

 

[Ivs]

1 ora fa, lionel messi ha scritto:

I am just doing a test and then i will release the updated file.

I finally got PPG to work for regional premier divisions for the 1st season and beyond.

Playoffs for level 7 & 8 fixed so now they are now played in home team stadium.

Sounds promising, but why PPG is set for future seasons, too? It should be applied for this season or just for the next one because of the voiding of 2019/20 season. Did I get wrong?

Furthermore, two more questions:

- Did you manage to set PPG for National League North & South relegation spots, too?

- How did you eventually set promotions and relegations from and to level 8?