Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '09

[alanricouk]

Manager of Hamilton is a start

[wwfan]

wwfan what do you suggest if AI players are in my opinion closing down superfast, tackling so much better than mine. What tactical settings do I have to set?

I'd probably look at increasing passing length on the forwards, upping tempo, and to spread the play.

wwfan, I'm currently playing a game in the SPL with Accies with a 4-5-1 formation. Having read through your guide i understand the importance of the team being a unit where there is always options.

I've implemented the defensive, standard and attacking options along with your views on who should support and when but I've still only managed 2 goals in TEN games. Where am I going wrong?

It will be your free roles/CF/Attacking set up. Getting this right transforms a tactic, getting it wrong destroys it. It is probably worth while making the wingers roam on the highest mentality in the team so they support the front man a little more. It sounds like he is getting isolated and is thus ineffective.

[tdc5013]

I used a narrow modern tactic and won 4-1. The only thing was the majority of the goals came from us poaching defensive ****-ups. I'm still being told that I'm only managing long range efforts, is there anyway to change this, maybe create more chances. The only decent goal came from Paul Scholes from just inside the area. I'd like to be able to pose more threats like these, while keeping the same style of play (passing/tempo etc).

[UnlikelyStory]

Well I seem to have done well with this thread as I'm top of the league, scoring 2 or 3 a game and rarely conceding. However, my FCa just doesn't want to score. My wingers and FCd constantly score. Shall I increase his mentality? Take off the forward runs? I'm using the Bands of Two guideline by the way.

[Mitja]

Was hoping somebody could help me out with this?

Thanks

looks like you run out of ideas..one thing i notice in all TT&F mentlity frameworks, except global, is increasing mentality setup. that means at the end attacking players (FCs, Ws and MCas) are assigned with very high mentality, especially in very aggressive tactics. maybe you used more cautious approch with spammers and you didn't experience it that often?

it's logically these players are in hurry to score as fast as possible, so they shoot..as they're asked to. think about it, having your players on 18,19,20 mentality is almost as same as having them on all out attack, at least i imagine so. i don't think it's tempo/CF/TTB, players are taking rushed shots becouse of very high mentality, i'm almost certain, as i never experienced it that often.

i just had a game, using my standard tactics (tweaked global, menatlity - 10/12) and my players were passing when they were supposed to shoot. and i have most of my MCs and FCs on TTB/LS mixed. they don't cross if not asked, they don't shoot

[alanricouk]

Whats best in OI for a striker? Close down loads, or Tight marking?

[tdc5013]

Well I seem to have done well with this thread as I'm top of the league, scoring 2 or 3 a game and rarely conceding. However, my FCa just doesn't want to score. My wingers and FCd constantly score. Shall I increase his mentality? Take off the forward runs? I'm using the Bands of Two guideline by the way.

I'm finding this too, my FCd scored 2 last match, my FCa hasn't scored in about 5 games

[Mitja]

Whats best in OI for a striker? Close down loads, or Tight marking?

depends on many things. his ability vs yours DC ability being the most important one. you shouldn't close down an atlethic striker with good technical ability a lot. with TM you limit his chances to get into ball posession in the first place, but it creates gaps..

[Mitja]

I'm finding this too, my FCd scored 2 last match, my FCa hasn't scored in about 5 games

i supose FCa is allready on highest mentality in the team? try to decrease his mentality. the idea is not to take too many rushed shots.

[alanricouk]

WWFAN-Care to upload your tactic?

[ObaMartins09]

WWFAN-Care to upload your tactic?

Are you joking? There are over 70 downloadable tactics in first post.

[alanricouk]

Are you joking? There are over 70 downloadable tactics in first post.

I'm almost certain he doesn't use all 70 tactics. I am sure uses a select few, and has a favourite.

[Relaxing]

Would like to share with you guys that the Band of Two settings works great with Man Utd if you tweak it somewhere between a Attacking and a Standard Match Mindset.

Right now im using a 442 formation for Man Utd, applying the settings of one attacking forward (Berbatov) and a deep lying forward (Rooney/Tevez) as mentioned in the tactic framework 2009.

I have also applied all the team and individual settings using the " Band of two" formation, adjusting for an attacking mindset tweaked towards Standard mindset a little (not too attacking). i had success using Anderson for the MCa role, and Carrick for the MCd role.

Also, using Berbatov in the Fwda role is a gem. However, Rooney and Tevez has not really blossomed in their Fwd(d) positions. On the whole, i have archived great consistency of creating chances, scoring goals and controlling possession not only in home matches, but away matches as well.

My defence using the "Band of Two settings" has only let in ard 12 goals in 23 premiership matches. I have at least 10-17 shots on goal per game in away matches, regardless of playing Chelsea away or Juventus away.

Here are some stats so far of my season using this tactic.

Premiership: lost 0, drawn 3, won 19

Notable results: won 3-2 Chelsea (H), Won 5-2 Spurs (A), won Arsenal 1-0 (H), won Liverpool 1-0(H), won Middlesbrough 4-0 (A), won Man City 1-0 (A), Won Everton 3-0 (A)

League Cup (Final)

Notable results: Won Chelsea 3-1 (A), Won Liverpool 3-0 (H)

Champions League (qualified for Knockout Rd)

Notable results: Won Sporting Lisbon 5-0 (H), Won Fernebache 3-0 (A), Draw Juventus 1-1 (A)

Berbatov: 23 goals, Tevez: 17 goals, Ronaldo: 15 goals, Rooney: 15 goals, Nani: 5 Goals, Giggs: 5 Goals, Carrick: 3 Goals

First team: Van der sar, Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic, G Neville, Nani, Ronaldo, Carrick(MCd), Anderson(MCa), Rooney(Fwd), Berbatov(Fwda)

[lyw_85]

I'm abit confused.

I'm playing a regular 442 with farrows for my wingers.

When I view the match, they are as high up the field as my Strikers. I use a global team mentality, as I'm not very good in setting tactics.

Because my wingers are so high up, the MCs usually pass the ball in between them before they,

1) Gets pressurized and lose the ball

2) Pass it back to the defenders who kick it upfield

I have played about 40 matches already, and so far none of my goals have come from buildup from the back. Its frustrating to watch.

How can I make my wingers drop back more?

And my GK is really hopeless in passing. EVERY match my assistant says he is not passing well. How can I improve it?

[Relaxing]

Think it has to do with your passing and forward runs settings. See page 27 of the tactic framwork guide. My defenders have short passing, Mc(d) short passing, Mc(a) Mixed, Wingers Slightly direct, Forwards Direct. With this settings, u should build up ur attack from the back, keeping possesion and creating chances

[daleuk8]

WWfan.. Few questions

1) Closing down: i'm using the crib sheet as a base, but do you move up notches from the prev possistion i.e. if you're setting the FC'S Closing down do you put 4 notches on from the MR/L'S closining down or plus 4 from the DC'S Closing down?

2) On the 442 default deff formation it looks like the FWR'S on the wingers are tucked in, is this the case? if so how do you set that?

[alanricouk]

Would like to share with you guys that the Band of Two settings works great with Man Utd if you tweak it somewhere between a Attacking and a Standard Match Mindset.

Right now im using a 442 formation for Man Utd, applying the settings of one attacking forward (Berbatov) and a deep lying forward (Rooney/Tevez) as mentioned in the tactic framework 2009.

I have also applied all the team and individual settings using the " Band of two" formation, adjusting for an attacking mindset tweaked towards Standard mindset a little (not too attacking). i had success using Anderson for the MCa role, and Carrick for the MCd role.

Also, using Berbatov in the Fwda role is a gem. However, Rooney and Tevez has not really blossomed in their Fwd(d) positions. On the whole, i have archived great consistency of creating chances, scoring goals and controlling possession not only in home matches, but away matches as well.

My defence using the "Band of Two settings" has only let in ard 12 goals in 23 premiership matches. I have at least 10-17 shots on goal per game in away matches, regardless of playing Chelsea away or Juventus away.

Here are some stats so far of my season using this tactic.

Premiership: lost 0, drawn 3, won 19

Notable results: won 3-2 Chelsea (H), Won 5-2 Spurs (A), won Arsenal 1-0 (H), won Liverpool 1-0(H), won Middlesbrough 4-0 (A), won Man City 1-0 (A), Won Everton 3-0 (A)

League Cup (Final)

Notable results: Won Chelsea 3-1 (A), Won Liverpool 3-0 (H)

Champions League (qualified for Knockout Rd)

Notable results: Won Sporting Lisbon 5-0 (H), Won Fernebache 3-0 (A), Draw Juventus 1-1 (A)

Berbatov: 23 goals, Tevez: 17 goals, Ronaldo: 15 goals, Rooney: 15 goals, Nani: 5 Goals, Giggs: 5 Goals, Carrick: 3 Goals

First team: Van der sar, Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic, G Neville, Nani, Ronaldo, Carrick(MCd), Anderson(MCa), Rooney(Fwd), Berbatov(Fwda)

Upload your tactic?

[nik tik]

This thing is like a FM bible!!!!u all rocks mate!!!

[wwfan]

WWfan.. Few questions

1) Closing down: i'm using the crib sheet as a base, but do you move up notches from the prev possistion i.e. if you're setting the FC'S Closing down do you put 4 notches on from the MR/L'S closining down or plus 4 from the DC'S Closing down?

2) On the 442 default deff formation it looks like the FWR'S on the wingers are tucked in, is this the case? if so how do you set that?

1: Plus four from the DC's mentality setting.

2: No idea. I imagine it is just a graphical representation of a narrow tactic with the wingers pushing forward.

[PhroX]

Fantastic work wwfan & co. I really appreciate all your hard work, makes the game so much more enjoyable now I have some kind of understanding of how it all fits together.

I'm playing as Southampton, using a 4-2-3-1 with the FC as Support, the AM RL&C as Attack, one MC as Support, the other one and the DCs as Defend and the Full Backs as the "floating" players depending on the situation. Does this look right?

At first I played with the trusty old RoO setup, and it seemed to be working well, but my save corrupted and I had to start again, and, being somewhat of a romantic at heart when it comes to football, I decided to go for the Wenger style this time round. I've only played the friendlies so far, and I'm playing some beautiful football (for the level I'm at at least), but we so badly overplay it, trying to walk it into the net at times, and don't score nearly as many as we should. Defense looks pretty shaky too. Pretty close to Arsenal IRL then, so I guess it's working right.

Still, I'll be damned if I sacrifice my priciples and go back to boring RoO

[Millie]

I'm almost certain he doesn't use all 70 tactics. I am sure uses a select few, and has a favourite.

I'm sure he (as well as myself) make a few changes to the basic tactics, but as has been pointed out - there's 70+ tactics there for you to take a look at, so something must tickle your fancy. Remembering as well, of course, that you can modify the mentalities to suit your own prefered style.

Just giving you his or my tactic wouldn't help you any way, as it wouldn't be tailored to your specific needs. You really need to take what's already here as a base and learn from the game as to what you should do.

The point of TT&F wasn't to be a bunch of "perfect" tactics to download. It's meant to help, not do it for you.

This isn't a dig at you in any way. Far from it. But other people will make tactics for you to download, "plug and play". Not us, I'm afraid.

I'm abit confused.

I'm playing a regular 442 with farrows for my wingers.

You mean your wingers are "attacking" players, so they have forward runs set to often? This needs to be made clear, because the farrows are simply forward runs in FM09.

When I view the match, they are as high up the field as my Strikers. I use a global team mentality, as I'm not very good in setting tactics.

That will happen if they're running forward often and have a (relatively) high mentality when compared to the strikers. If you need them to not run so far forward, try knocking mentality down one or two notches, or consider using one of the other frameworks. If you feel uncomfortable with tactics, you'll find it much easier to get a good solid tactic if you follow one of the more authoritarian frameworks than "global" mentality - global is the hardest to pull off.

Because my wingers are so high up, the MCs usually pass the ball in between them before they,

1) Gets pressurized and lose the ball

2) Pass it back to the defenders who kick it upfield

Yep. Definitely sounds like a mentality issue. Do you have an MCd and an MCa? If not, try that, that should help. Do you have a split FCa and FCd? Having a striker drop back will give you more options.

A little more passing and tempo may help too.

I have played about 40 matches already, and so far none of my goals have come from buildup from the back. Its frustrating to watch.

Global can do that. In terms of great passing play, I find "role theory" (Wenger) to be the best, but if you want good passing play and penetration, I'd go for Fergusson, and perhaps consider a 5-man midfield.

How can I make my wingers drop back more?

Lower mentality, lower FWRs (though this is undesirable). Basically, you need lower mentality in relation to your MCa and FCa to keep a good progression through the team.

And my GK is really hopeless in passing. EVERY match my assistant says he is not passing well. How can I improve it?

That's been an issue since FM06 that still hasn't been sorted. If you've tried everything, use the "least rubbish" setting that actually gets good build up. Unfortunately, I've yet to see anyone solve this issue.

[Uncle_Sam]

I have a question about lateral movement. I haven't played the demo and I'm waiting for my copy of WSM as it doesn't street until today.

Say I have a an AMC, or maybe 2, and I want him/them to operate from touchline to touchline. Is there a way to accomplish this in 09?

[Millie]

Explicitly? No. And I must admit I've never tried to do it, so I'm stumped as to how I would.

I tend to find if you don't play wingers (i.e. no players at ML/R or AML/R), then AMCs drift wide naturally (and are encouraged by width and crossing instructions).

If you had (say) a 4-2-3-1 with no wingers, having high CF, high(ish) width, perhaps crossing instructions and maybe a free role, you could get them moving out wide. But to move to both touchlines? Difficult. In the example here, you could have the AMCl and the AMCr swapping positions in their instructions.

Bring back side arrows, come on, sortitoutsi, etc.

[Abey87]

Probably the most useful guide I've read in a long long time. TT&F is simply just phenomenol.

[wwfan]

I have a question about lateral movement. I haven't played the demo and I'm waiting for my copy of WSM as it doesn't street until today.

Say I have a an AMC, or maybe 2, and I want him/them to operate from touchline to touchline. Is there a way to accomplish this in 09?

I tend to find, as long as you give the A/MCs crossing and FWRs mixed, they drift wide to help out with wingplay. To accentuate their doing this, you'd make crossing often, give them a free role, focus passing down flanks and play wide. However, you can't force them there as you could in '08. You can only set up the team so play takes place in a certain area and encourage them to get involved.

[alanricouk]

I'm sure he (as well as myself) make a few changes to the basic tactics, but as has been pointed out - there's 70+ tactics there for you to take a look at, so something must tickle your fancy. Remembering as well, of course, that you can modify the mentalities to suit your own prefered style.

Just giving you his or my tactic wouldn't help you any way, as it wouldn't be tailored to your specific needs. You really need to take what's already here as a base and learn from the game as to what you should do.

The point of TT&F wasn't to be a bunch of "perfect" tactics to download. It's meant to help, not do it for you.

This isn't a dig at you in any way. Far from it. But other people will make tactics for you to download, "plug and play". Not us, I'm afraid.

You mean your wingers are "attacking" players, so they have forward runs set to often? This needs to be made clear, because the farrows are simply forward runs in FM09.

That will happen if they're running forward often and have a (relatively) high mentality when compared to the strikers. If you need them to not run so far forward, try knocking mentality down one or two notches, or consider using one of the other frameworks. If you feel uncomfortable with tactics, you'll find it much easier to get a good solid tactic if you follow one of the more authoritarian frameworks than "global" mentality - global is the hardest to pull off.

Yep. Definitely sounds like a mentality issue. Do you have an MCd and an MCa? If not, try that, that should help. Do you have a split FCa and FCd? Having a striker drop back will give you more options.

A little more passing and tempo may help too.

Global can do that. In terms of great passing play, I find "role theory" (Wenger) to be the best, but if you want good passing play and penetration, I'd go for Fergusson, and perhaps consider a 5-man midfield.

Lower mentality, lower FWRs (though this is undesirable). Basically, you need lower mentality in relation to your MCa and FCa to keep a good progression through the team.

That's been an issue since FM06 that still hasn't been sorted. If you've tried everything, use the "least rubbish" setting that actually gets good build up. Unfortunately, I've yet to see anyone solve this issue.

I've made a tactic based on this theory, and it fails badly.

[3889011]

I have a problem even as my players are set to tight marking they are standing too far from their player is there any cure for that.

Also I have noticed that opposition players are dribbling too easy it is really hard to dispossess even players with largely lower ability.

Have you also noticed it or it is just me??

[alanricouk]

Setting to put a winger on weaker foot in OI fails badly.

[Uncle_Sam]

I tend to find, as long as you give the A/MCs crossing and FWRs mixed, they drift wide to help out with wingplay. To accentuate their doing this, you'd make crossing often, give them a free role, focus passing down flanks and play wide. However, you can't force them there as you could in '08. You can only set up the team so play takes place in a certain area and encourage them to get involved.

Well my formation of choice has always been the 4-4-2 Box midfield. I'm hoping I'll still be able to create it in FM 09.

[Uncle_Sam]

Towards the end of FM 08 I was using this formation with great effect:

It really made for some unpredictable runs by the front four. It's a little unorthodox and perhaps a bit of a cheat but it was about the only way to get a good box midfield to work on FM 08. Hopefully I can create a conventional 4-4-2 Box in 09.

[Larsson1888]

Any chance someone can put the downloads on filefront for me please?

[geol13]

Yeah..plz at least for FM08 to get some wins there finally..and for FM09..well we'll see when FM10 comes out..no really plz upload the tacs and instruction wwfan is talking about or uncle sam..i'd love to try 'em..thanks!

[wwfan]

There are three links in the opening post that all contain the downloads, including the 72 tactics.

[Richard76]

And my GK is really hopeless in passing. EVERY match my assistant says he is not passing well. How can I improve it?

I find it helps if you set your keeper to distribution - defender collect. That way he's not just lumping long balls up field.

You also have to take into account he will be taking goal kicks and you can't determine how these are taken. He will, again, just kick the ball up field and it's 50-50 who wins the ball. Less than that if you have small strikers. This is the main reason why his pass completion will be so low.

[Larsson1888]

There are three links in the opening post that all contain the downloads, including the 72 tactics.

I can only get on the net at work and some sites and downloading are restricted. Unfortunately these are restricted so filefront is the only accepted download site for some reason.

[Uncle_Sam]

Has anyone ever done the stats for real life goal keeper pass percentages? I bet it's lower than the rest of the field players because they actually do hoof the ball down the pitch a lot.

[MCMXXVII]

really usefull stuff..

i set up a custom tactic according to this article.. and been unbeaten in 12 matches (won 10, draw 2) in competition with Isola Liri (media pred. 10) Although after winning al group stages in serie c cup, I lost first knockoutround..

[F.Inzaghi]

I was wondering if anyone could help me...

Thanks to this guide I've greated a good 4-5-1 tactic..

I started by winning 5 games in a row and then i just started drawing in almost every game, i've got 8 wins 10 draws and 3 losses now as a mid-table team.

So what am I doing wrong ?

Am scoring goals and keeping few clean sheets but it seems like my team can barely get 3 points.

[Mr.Grandpa]

Well i started my dynasty manager mode with a similar tactic that i had in my 08 game and i couldn't win anything it was mostly 0-0 draws and 0-1 defeats. Then i read a bit trough this thread and the transformation has begun. We went on a 3 game win streak winning 2-0,4-0 and 3-1 with 2 of those games on the road. My strikers begun to bang the back of the net and we have plenty chances each game. I really like this thread and work done by you guys you helped me manage my team to steady position in the league and we are starting to look like serious contenders for the title although media prediction is only 6th place. KUTGW

BTW I'm playing in the Slovenia league with NK Celje so it's not the best team in the world neither the coaching staff is top notch so it's all down to tactical grinding and trail and error and with this thread there can be no error

[Anderspanders]

I might be really stupid but I dont understand what it means when it says:

Mentality:

GK: 7

DCd: 6

DC: 8

FB: 10

MCd: 9

ML/R: 11

MCa: 12

FCs: 13

Does it mean that the all the way to the left is 0 and all the way to right is 20? on the mentality slider?

[Mitja]

7 means 7 notches from the left, it a defensive mentality.

but we don't count the first and the last notch of mentality slider ('all out defend/attack').

[tdc5013]

I'm still having a lot of trouble controlling the match and creating chances, even against weak teams. I had an extremely tough time against Colchester, and I can't figure out why.

What sort of formation/width game should I play on a narrow pitch (not a short one). And how can I keep the integrity of my attacking game, while still making sure my players don't take a shot as soon as they have sight of goal? My players also miss sitters quite often.

By the way, this guide has been very useful to me, even though I'm having problems.

[simonbyrneno.4]

The Queiroz formation in the download pack- Is it based on the United team/formation from last years double winning season?

[Millie]

I've made a tactic based on this theory, and it fails badly.

A tactic? The idea is to use the frameworks to be able to have an attack, standard and defensive version. Have you tried the tactics in the download packs? They should give you some ideas.

However, since the tactics wwfan and I use are made using these theories, they'll be just as "bad" as the ones you've made, I'm sure.

Seriously - take a look at the downloads. See how they compare to your own tactics. And try using the game plans to combat the opposition. You won't learn anything without experimenting a little.

Has anyone ever done the stats for real life goal keeper pass percentages? I bet it's lower than the rest of the field players because they actually do hoof the ball down the pitch a lot.

That's a really good point. However, I think people get most irritated by the fact that regardless of GK instructions he seems to pass it the same way each time. But I would agree - don't expect a 75% pass completion from the keeper.

The Queiroz formation in the download pack- Is it based on the United team/formation from last years double winning season?

Yes, it is. The idea is to have Evra/Giggs on the left and Neville/Ronaldo on the right, I believe. But it is based on last years Champions League winning formation.

[Uncle_Sam]

That's a really good point. However, I think people get most irritated by the fact that regardless of GK instructions he seems to pass it the same way each time. But I would agree - don't expect a 75% pass completion from the keeper.

Agreed, and this is where you would like the keeper's distribution rating to come in to play. The keepers with the highest rating in this category should also have higher completion percentages as well as start more dangerous attacks.

[alanricouk]

A tactic? The idea is to use the frameworks to be able to have an attack, standard and defensive version. Have you tried the tactics in the download packs? They should give you some ideas.

However, since the tactics wwfan and I use are made using these theories, they'll be just as "bad" as the ones you've made, I'm sure.

Seriously - take a look at the downloads. See how they compare to your own tactics. And try using the game plans to combat the opposition. You won't learn anything without experimenting a little.

That's a really good point. However, I think people get most irritated by the fact that regardless of GK instructions he seems to pass it the same way each time. But I would agree - don't expect a 75% pass completion from the keeper.

Yes, it is. The idea is to have Evra/Giggs on the left and Neville/Ronaldo on the right, I believe. But it is based on last years Champions League winning formation.

I've made a few, and used quite a few that have been pre-made. It just aint working against my other rivals, or half decent teams.

Its annoying now, because its slowly killing the game for me

I just want a tactic you are using yourself then tweak it.

[arfaern]

For thoes that are having trouble with opening .xlsx files.

Users without Excel

Download the free excel viewer from:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=1cd6acf9-ce06-4e1c-8dcf-f33f669dbc3a&DisplayLang=en

Users with Excel 2000 or Excel 2003

Download the compatibility pack from:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=941B3470-3AE9-4AEE-8F43-C6BB74CD1466&displaylang=en

This should allow yout to view Excel 2007 files properly.

[Uncle_Sam]

By the way Millie, whats the story with FM:B?

[MCMXXVII]

i am using nike defense.. and still unbeaten..

[hotchilidamo]

Fantastic stuff people

Now, i want to create a few different tactics from this. Anyone know of a quicker way to set up tactics? I've been here forever moving these sliders and still not even finished one yet!