January update

[Liamgannon]

This thread isn't about asking when the update comes out, we all know it will be around late Feb early March. 

The point of this post is to ask why Si, with all of their resources i might add, can't readily produce an update after the transfer window closes. It's actually pretty poor from them that it takes so long to deliver it. 

I downloaded an update yesterday (1 Feb) from a 3rd party website, with all the updates and its great - if this website can do it i'm simply left scratching my head as to why Si feel its not worth their time and effort. 

Si are lucky to have a very loyal fan base, i think its about time they started listening to their customers - this attitude of we know best is really starting to grate on me. 

Without fans, football clubs would be nothing, the same is true for FM. Now i'm not saying Si need to implement everyone's whimsical wishes, clearly that is an impossible task. But ask the forum if they would like the January update to be ready on the 1st Feb and 100% would say yes. Its a no brainer. Make it happen. 

[HUNT3R]

7 minutes ago, Liamgannon said:

The point of this post is to ask why Si, with all of their resources i might add, can't readily produce an update after the transfer window closes. It's actually pretty poor from them that it takes so long to deliver it.

There are still transfer windows open.

[forameuss]

7 minutes ago, Liamgannon said:

This thread isn't about asking when the update comes out, we all know it will be around late Feb early March. 

The point of this post is to ask why Si, with all of their resources i might add, can't readily produce an update after the transfer window closes. It's actually pretty poor from them that it takes so long to deliver it. 

I downloaded an update yesterday (1 Feb) from a 3rd party website, with all the updates and its great - if this website can do it i'm simply left scratching my head as to why Si feel its not worth their time and effort. 

Si are lucky to have a very loyal fan base, i think its about time they started listening to their customers - this attitude of we know best is really starting to grate on me. 

Without fans, football clubs would be nothing, the same is true for FM. Now i'm not saying Si need to implement everyone's whimsical wishes, clearly that is an impossible task. But ask the forum if they would like the January update to be ready on the 1st Feb and 100% would say yes. Its a no brainer. Make it happen. 

Because other transfer windows are still open.  Hope that helps.

[Liamgannon]

Still doesn't answer my original point. The Russian transfer window closes on 22 Feb...we're probably not going to get the update well into March. Why so long?

As i stated above, 3rd party website with way less resources than Si are able to produce up-to-date January updates on 1st Feb.

 

Ok i understand the comment about other transfer windows still being open, fair enough. But still once they've all closed the new update should be delivered the day after. 

 

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, Liamgannon said:

Still doesn't answer my original point. The Russian transfer window closes on 22 Feb...we're probably not going to get the update well into March. Why so long?

As i stated above, 3rd party website with way less resources than Si are able to produce up-to-date January updates on 1st Feb.

The Chinese Transfer window (correct me if I'm wrong) closes 28 Feb. Last year's update (correct me if I'm wrong) was out on 1 March. That's not long.

[forameuss]

3 minutes ago, Liamgannon said:

Still doesn't answer my original point. The Russian transfer window closes on 22 Feb...we're probably not going to get the update well into March. Why so long?

As i stated above, 3rd party website with way less resources than Si are able to produce up-to-date January updates on 1st Feb.

 

Ok i understand the comment about other transfer windows still being open, fair enough. But still once they've all closed the new update should be delivered the day after. 

 

3rd party updates do very little testing as to whether their data conflicts with anything.  They'll do the bare minimum, because if they get it wrong then "oh well, we'll just fix that and go on".  SI, luckily, have a slightly better standard of quality control with their data.

Put it this way, taking your original question.  Would you be happy for SI to release the update on February 1st, knowing that it wouldn't have been tested, potentially having players at the wrong clubs?  You can't just answer with "well they should get it right", because that means nothing.  They do testing for a reason.

[Liamgannon]

2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

The Chinese Transfer window (correct me if I'm wrong) closes 28 Feb. Last year's update (correct me if I'm wrong) was out on 1 March. That's not long.

Indeed, not long at all, maybe i'm being a drama queen.  Lets wait and see then how long it takes this year. 

[BossPenguin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the update doesn't just cover player moves and transfers, it's the last patch for match engine and other game play issues. When you consider that it's quite an important piece of work and rushing it out seems like a bad idea.

[russell9]

7 minutes ago, BossPenguin said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the update doesn't just cover player moves and transfers, it's the last patch for match engine and other game play issues. When you consider that it's quite an important piece of work and rushing it out seems like a bad idea.

Yes and those fixes are far more important than transfer update.

[dmndmn]

On 02.02.2018 at 13:30, russell9 said:

Yes and those fixes are far more important than transfer update.

What kind of fixes you wonder to be

[Delvi]

I think they should sell the game in March and have last update (with patch) in September, so we could play the game at its full potential during autumn and winter. 

Since the vast majority of fanbase is living in the Boreal hemisphere, it would make sense...

[HUNT3R]

14 minutes ago, Delvi said:

I think they should sell the game in March and have last update (with patch) in September, so we could play the game at its full potential during autumn and winter. 

Since the vast majority of fanbase is living in the Boreal hemisphere, it would make sense...

It doesn't make sense to release a new game at the end of a season, when the interest is dropping off and the excitement isn't the same as at the start of a new season. Think about when the other football games release too. There's a reason.

[Delvi]

3 minuti fa, HUNT3R ha scritto:

It doesn't make sense to release a new game at the end of a season, when the interest is dropping off and the excitement isn't the same as at the start of a new season. Think about when the other football games release too. There's a reason.

You would have the game fully patched at the start of new season in this way. I'm not sure it would be a so bad idea...

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, Delvi said:

You would have the game fully patched at the start of new season in this way. I'm not sure it would be a so bad idea...

Changing the release date to almost guarantee fewer sales definitely isn't a good idea.

[penza]

the fixes they have been working on since 18.2.0 as I said in another thread, they should release the bugs fixes first this means we have to wait 3 months which is completely insane

[Prank Emperor]

45 minutes ago, Delvi said:

You would have the game fully patched at the start of new season in this way. I'm not sure it would be a so bad idea...

No, the game would not be fully patched! The patches and fixes are released because the game is out in the market and hundreds of thousands of players are reporting issues they come up with which the small SI team can't humanely recreate considering the enormity of the simulation. So no matter when the game has released the patches are part of the game cycle.

Not to mention that interest towards March starts fading away as mentioned earlier here, so it would be bad business and marketing.

[Bigpole]

On 2.02.2018 at 10:45, Liamgannon said:

This thread isn't about asking when the update comes out, we all know it will be around late Feb early March. 

The point of this post is to ask why Si, with all of their resources i might add, can't readily produce an update after the transfer window closes. It's actually pretty poor from them that it takes so long to deliver it. 

I downloaded an update yesterday (1 Feb) from a 3rd party website, with all the updates and its great - if this website can do it i'm simply left scratching my head as to why Si feel its not worth their time and effort. 

Si are lucky to have a very loyal fan base, i think its about time they started listening to their customers - this attitude of we know best is really starting to grate on me. 

Without fans, football clubs would be nothing, the same is true for FM. Now i'm not saying Si need to implement everyone's whimsical wishes, clearly that is an impossible task. But ask the forum if they would like the January update to be ready on the 1st Feb and 100% would say yes. Its a no brainer. Make it happen. 

There's no chance to release patch just after the transfer window. SI want to release one patch with errors, bugs and fixed errors people reported. 

About the transfers: Remember that few leagues have their windows still open after 1st feb (like Poland, Russia, China) and more important - not all teams have researchers. I mean sometines one people have to update one league or country so it's not possible to just sit behind the computer all day watching all transfers/loans and putting them info the database. This is not possible due to work/family/school etc. I've been doing fm updates for few years and remember that these patches are FAN-MADE and usually include only transfers/loans. The winter patch is not only about transfers/loans but it will cover all errors spotted by the players (births/deaths, skills, preferences, apps/goals and so on). 

Remember that any patch regarding changes to the database, requires starting a new game (if you want these changes to be included in your game of course).

 

[Preveza]

On 02/02/2018 at 20:45, Liamgannon said:

This thread isn't about asking when the update comes out, we all know it will be around late Feb early March. 

The point of this post is to ask why Si, with all of their resources i might add, can't readily produce an update after the transfer window closes. It's actually pretty poor from them that it takes so long to deliver it. 

I downloaded an update yesterday (1 Feb) from a 3rd party website, with all the updates and its great - if this website can do it i'm simply left scratching my head as to why Si feel its not worth their time and effort. 

Si are lucky to have a very loyal fan base, i think its about time they started listening to their customers - this attitude of we know best is really starting to grate on me. 

Without fans, football clubs would be nothing, the same is true for FM. Now i'm not saying Si need to implement everyone's whimsical wishes, clearly that is an impossible task. But ask the forum if they would like the January update to be ready on the 1st Feb and 100% would say yes. Its a no brainer. Make it happen. 

Terrible OP. Maybe because the updates you download are 5% complete compared to what SI will bring out along with the patch mate. Even pr0's update has thousands transfers missing in obscure and smaller leagues. Your OP makes zero sense and is one of the worst I have seen. The third party updates are shallow compared to what SI will deliver in late February/early March. Yes the third party updates are great, but like I said, are tiny and no where near as detailed as SI's full transfer update. The third party transfers has thousands of moves yes, but there are still thousands more that are either wrong or incorrect. Question answered. Moving on. 

 

PS. SI's data update ALSO includes CA/PA changes to thousands of players. Yet another reason why it takes so long 

[dmndmn]

23 dakika önce, Preveza said:

Terrible OP. Maybe because the updates you download are 5% complete compared to what SI will bring out along with the patch mate. Even pr0's update has thousands transfers missing in obscure and smaller leagues. Your OP makes zero sense and is one of the worst I have seen. The third party updates are shallow compared to what SI will deliver in late February/early March. Yes the third party updates are great, but like I said, are tiny and no where near as detailed as SI's full transfer update. The third party transfers has thousands of moves yes, but there are still thousands more that are either wrong or incorrect. Question answered. Moving on. 

 

PS. SI's data update ALSO includes CA/PA changes to thousands of players. Yet another reason why it takes so long 

For me data update nothing... ı waiting for the last patch ( fixed bugs) to start last and longest save. İt includes also so many fixes right ?

[penza]

41 minutes ago, Preveza said:

Terrible OP. Maybe because the updates you download are 5% complete compared to what SI will bring out along with the patch mate. Even pr0's update has thousands transfers missing in obscure and smaller leagues. Your OP makes zero sense and is one of the worst I have seen. The third party updates are shallow compared to what SI will deliver in late February/early March. Yes the third party updates are great, but like I said, are tiny and no where near as detailed as SI's full transfer update. The third party transfers has thousands of moves yes, but there are still thousands more that are either wrong or incorrect. Question answered. Moving on. 

 

PS. SI's data update ALSO includes CA/PA changes to thousands of players. Yet another reason why it takes so long 

doesn't excuse the fact that it takes 3 months to fix ME bugs...and pr0 isnt a company its an individual no comparison there

[dmndmn]

I think SI sould release an update nowadays. Me and so many users just waiting for the fixes. Not wairing for the new transfer update. Releasing 2 different updates is so diffuclt? İf so I must wait 2 weeks more !!!

[JordanMilly]

2 hours ago, dmndmn said:

I think SI sould release an update nowadays. Me and so many users just waiting for the fixes. Not wairing for the new transfer update. Releasing 2 different updates is so diffuclt? İf so I must wait 2 weeks more !!!

SI have to pay Steam to put out patches, I believe, so that's a pretty good reason to SI not to put out 2 different updates when there's no reason beyond impatience that they can't just do one update.

[forameuss]

They also have a few more checks and balances to perform other than "oh look, someone on the boards thinks we should release it now".  They probably could release them separately from a technical perspective, doesn't mean it's not a stupid idea though.

[Triffid]

Yes it's definitely a "stupid idea" to want to get a patch that fixes reported bugs in a full price game as quickly as possible. Just as it's a "stupid idea" to be asking what is actually likely to get fixed and when that is likely to be.

It's a much more sensible idea to accept that 'it's ready when it's ready', 'it's very complicated', and 'no we are not going to tell you what we are working on fixing'.

You should all be grateful that SI let you buy FM and stop complaining or asking questions that nobody except the usual forum members want to attempt to answer.

[dmndmn]

4 dakika önce, Triffid said:

Yes it's definitely a "stupid idea" to want to get a patch that fixes reported bugs in a full price game as quickly as possible. Just as it's a "stupid idea" to be asking what is actually likely to get fixed and when that is likely to be.

It's a much more sensible idea to accept that 'it's ready when it's ready', 'it's very complicated', and 'no we are not going to tell you what we are working on fixing'.

You should all be grateful that SI let you buy FM and stop complaining or asking questions that nobody except the usual forum members want to attempt to answer.

You serious ? Tell me you joking

[forameuss]

3 minutes ago, Triffid said:

Yes it's definitely a "stupid idea" to want to get a patch that fixes reported bugs in a full price game as quickly as possible. Just as it's a "stupid idea" to be asking what is actually likely to get fixed and when that is likely to be.

It's a much more sensible idea to accept that 'it's ready when it's ready', 'it's very complicated', and 'no we are not going to tell you what we are working on fixing'.

You should all be grateful that SI let you buy FM and stop complaining or asking questions that nobody except the usual forum members want to attempt to answer.

It's always brilliant when an attempt at sarcasm botches so bad that it ends up seeming like you're making good points.

It is indeed a stupid idea to ask what is going to be fixed, and anyone sensible would realise why.  Let's take an example - say they told you that they were working on a fix to a particularly pervasive ME issue (take your pick as to which one), and then they run into issues at the eleventh hour that means they can't get it in without breaking something else.  You wouldn't be able to pick up your pitchfork quick enough.  

But in summing up, having completely unrealistic expectations is incredibly stupid, unless you particularly like eternal disappointment.  If you do, then more power to you, but seems like a bit of a waste of time, no?

[Triffid]

10 minutes ago, forameuss said:

It's always brilliant when an attempt at sarcasm botches so bad that it ends up seeming like you're making good points.

It is indeed a stupid idea to ask what is going to be fixed, and anyone sensible would realise why.  Let's take an example - say they told you that they were working on a fix to a particularly pervasive ME issue (take your pick as to which one), and then they run into issues at the eleventh hour that means they can't get it in without breaking something else.  You wouldn't be able to pick up your pitchfork quick enough.  

But in summing up, having completely unrealistic expectations is incredibly stupid, unless you particularly like eternal disappointment.  If you do, then more power to you, but seems like a bit of a waste of time, no?

You really have an obnoxious attitude to anyone you don't agree with. I have noticed it on virtually every thread you post in.

FYI no, I am not stupid nor am I "incredibly stupid". Fixing one thing might break another blah blah.... yes we know all that for goodness sake... we've been told often enough.

I just don't think it's "incredibly stupid" three months after a full price game release for people to be questioning when and if bugs reported three months ago are likely to be fixed. It's nothing to start insulting people over but I won't bother asking for an apology.

[forameuss]

Just now, Triffid said:

You really have an obnoxious attitude to anyone you don't agree with. I have noticed it on virtually every thread you post in.

FYI no, I am not stupid nor am I "incredibly stupid". Fixing one thing might break another blah blah.... yes we know all that for goodness sake... we've been told often enough.

I just don't think it's "incredibly stupid" three months after a full price game release for people to be questioning when and if bugs reported three months ago are likely to be fixed. It's nothing to start insulting people over but I won't bother asking for an apology.

Well I'm glad you're paying attention to me, but you know how this works.  You can ask all you want, but when have SI ever revealed anything before an update, so what's the point in asking the question?  You can disagree all you like with the policy, but it isn't a bad policy.  Keeping everything in house means less impact when things - inevitably - slip.  I wouldn't be surprised if the planned list of fixes changes massively from week-to-week, even day-to-day.  Telling users what they plan on fixing is always going to backfire massively, as would being more generic with people reading way too much into it.  They'll fix what they're capable of fixing in the time they have available.  Major things will probably be "missed" and some will be fixed.  It's the same every update, and will continue to be the same.  This is software development, there are always bugs.

And despite the haughty attitude, I wasn't referring to you as stupid, it was far more general.  Generally it is a stupid idea to expect any of what I said.  So no apology needed really.

[Triffid]

23 minutes ago, forameuss said:

  You can ask all you want, but when have SI ever revealed anything before an update, so what's the point in asking the question? 

This isn't North Korea. People are quite entitled to ask questions without the likes of you shouting them down as stupid.

Anyway you can get back in your box, that's my final post on this subject.

[Delvi]

I will be glad if SI Games will use the time to do more testing, balance and fixes. It doesn't matter to have the final patch in March instead of February, the most important thing is that will be fixed all major issues.

However would be really cool to get a fully patched game in September, when the season starts in Europe. Maybe could be possible in the future to have beta version for testers around April so that the game released in autumn will be bug-free?

[forameuss]

6 minutes ago, Delvi said:

I will be glad if SI Games will use the time to do more testing, balance and fixes. It doesn't matter to have the final patch in March instead of February, the most important thing is that will be fixed all major issues.

However would be really cool to get a fully patched game in September, when the season starts in Europe. Maybe could be possible in the future to have beta version for testers around April so that the game released in autumn will be bug-free?

It wouldn't be that simple though.  That would involve them shifting their development schedule, because the game would likely be a barely functional shell in April currently.  To get a product that is considered beta-ready in April, they'd likely have to start it 6 months earlier, which would mean less support for the previous version, and they'd be so busy fighting fires with stuff raised in said beta that they'd probably miss out on new features that they'd usually be working on in that time.

The only way they'd be able to achieve that kind of shift would be to take that often-asked-for year off in which to make the shift.  And that's never going to happen. 

And there will never be a product that is bug-free.  Ever.  It's all about trying to eliminate the biggest ones, but that's often the most difficult part.

18 minutes ago, Triffid said:

This isn't North Korea. People are quite entitled to ask questions without the likes of you shouting them down as stupid.

Anyway you can get back in your box, that's my final post on this subject.

What part of my post said you weren't entitled to ask?  I'm only saying that it's a fairly pointless exercise when you're not going to get an answer.  Like I said, if you want to be disappointed and feel like you're not being listened to, ask away.

[themadsheep2001]

Closing this as it's going nowhere. Details for the update won't be released until the update is, so you'll have to stay tuned.