The Rise of Diego Simeone 4-4-2

[cez]

On 07/04/2018 at 14:15, Gogito said:

Hey man

Where is the formation vs easier opponents?

hi sorry links messed up here are the two versions I am using

 

    

 

[Gogito]

And how about your results?

[cez]

On 19/04/2018 at 09:39, Gogito said:

And how about your results?

 

some notable scores from my 2nd season

serie a

champions league final. the graphics shows 433 heatmap because i've started as 433 narrow but got dominated so switched to 442 and still was getting dominated but counter payed off

 

currently in my third season testing a new tactic based on this game

 https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1225421/MatchReport/Italy-Serie-A-2017-2018-Inter-Cagliari

 

 

and so far so good

Edited April 21, 2018 by cez

[carloshcorbalan]

subí enlace  para  descargar las  dos  tácticas  y  probarlas....

Gracias...

[thegoon65]

On ‎19‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 18:26, cez said:

 

some notable scores from my 2nd season

serie a

champions league final. the graphics shows 433 heatmap because i've started as 433 narrow but got dominated so switched to 442 and still was getting dominated but counter payed off

 

currently in my third season testing a new tactic based on this game

 https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1225421/MatchReport/Italy-Serie-A-2017-2018-Inter-Cagliari

 

 

and so far so good

can you post up your tactics or the PI's you have used, these look decent results

[cez]

On 26/04/2018 at 00:39, thegoon65 said:

can you post up your tactics or the PI's you have used, these look decent results

sure here you go, but i cant promise they will work for you, doubt they're a plug and play, maybe the atletico counter one is most likely to be a pnp

4-1-4-1 DM Asymmetric AM (R).fmf

Atletico vs Easy.fmf

Atletico Counter.fmf

[shonaxxx]

can some1 had any luck replicating  this tactic in fm19?

[OhhScottySinclair]

I will upload a version of this tactic for FM19 this weekend.

[carloshcorbalan]

[carloshcorbalan]

estamos esperando versión de táctica simeone de scottysinclair.....

 

[thegoon65]

On 05/01/2019 at 03:20, OhhScottySinclair said:

I will upload a version of this tactic for FM19 this weekend.

Any news on this yet? 

[OhhScottySinclair]

Sorry for the delay, have been busy with school but will try and have it updated as soon as possible. 

[carloshcorbalan]

...gracias...

[yellowforever]

On 22/01/2019 at 15:48, OhhScottySinclair said:

Sorry for the delay, have been busy with school but will try and have it updated as soon as possible. 

Looking forward to it mate! Been trying to emulate Simeone with a 4-4-1-1 on this years game and it's going fairly well.

[andre62]

Any simeone tactic for fm 2019 please?

[thegoon65]

Has anyone updated this tactic for fm20 or has anyone managed a good Simeone replica? 

I think I will try and replicate this (the original ohscottysinclair version) from the opening few posts. With the new options available for tactics it should be interesting. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by thegoon65

[Mr harry 38]

Wish this would be updated 

[Travis Bickle]

I've been trying my hardest to replicate a Simeone 4-4-2. I'll load a tactic I have later. It has some success if you are an underdog. You need the players to make it work though. High work-rate players with high determination, bravery and stamina. Also need a wide-playmaker, ball-winning midfielder and a pressing forward. 

[Ewan0404]

On 25/03/2020 at 17:27, Travis Bickle said:

I've been trying my hardest to replicate a Simeone 4-4-2. I'll load a tactic I have later. It has some success if you are an underdog. You need the players to make it work though. High work-rate players with high determination, bravery and stamina. Also need a wide-playmaker, ball-winning midfielder and a pressing forward. 

You got a screenshot of the tactic? I am trying to make one aswell.

[HaraldNatvik]

On 07/01/2017 at 08:27, OhhScottySinclair said:

- Play high pressing high tempo counter attacking football.

So....not Cholo Atleti football then. Atleti play a really low pressing game, often with 11 players behind the ball at 30m from their own goal.

[Travis Bickle]

On 10/04/2020 at 20:07, HaraldNatvik said:

So....not Cholo Atleti football then. Atleti play a really low pressing game, often with 11 players behind the ball at 30m from their own goal.

No true. 

Atlético Madrid press, but they press high up the pitch to get a defender to lose the ball or to get an interception high up the pitch. 

When the ball has entered their own half, that is when they sit back and concede ground to maintain solidity at the back. 

Here:

 

 

[OConnellFC]

I have spent the majority of FM19 and FM20 trying to master this tactic. It’s quite difficult when the game rewards you for playing high line, attacking football. To be fair, this has been the most successful in real life as well (in recent years). But getting this tactic to work successfully is a much better feeling than just using 4231 Gegenpress. 

I will start with this slide deck. This is everything you need:

https://www.slideshare.net/Kieran85uk/atletico-madrid-10-match-tactical-analysis

 

Let’s look how Diego plays in the FM20 Match Engine (See scout report images)

One comment – everything looks like what is recommended in this post except the Mezzala. But if you look at the slide deck in the link, Gabi does drift wide and moves forward, so this role is suitable.

A look at PIs – these are important as well (See excel image)

My Tactics - which include Home, Away, Parking the Bus, and Set pieces within (attached)

My PIs:

PF At – None, but in game, I mark the opposition midfielder or DM so that the striker tracks back in defense.

TM Su (can also be PF Su/De, or DLF Su). I use a TM currently, so I ask him to Hold Position and Tackle Harder in the press.

WP and IW – While I only use one WP, both positions are set with the same instructions. WP closes down more. IW closes down, takes more risk, sits narrow, roams, and shoots less often. 

Mez – None. 

CM Su – set as a CM De with PIs, but use Su to maintain fluidity and shape. I noticed the CM D would drop way too deep in defense and I wanted a flat line. PIs are take fewer risks, dribble less, shoot less, hold position.

For both CMs, I do not close down more to maintain shape in the middle and to encourage wide pressing.

CWBs – Shoot less often, close down more, mark tighter. Mark tighter to encourage pressing the wings

CDs – Close down less. Take fewer risks (unless using a BPD).

SK D – More direct passes.

 

My OIs:

Same as the author. I just don’t press the GK and I do not tight mark the CM and Strikers. I want to maintain shape. Tight marking caused my CMs to move around too much to stick to opponents. 

 

Attributes:

Like author, the key attributes are:

-       All mental – Anticipation, Bravery, Composure, Concentration. Decisions. Determination, Work Rate, and Team work

-       Physical – Natural Fitness, Stamina. For Central Defenders, jumping reach to utilize narrow formation and head balls away. Most of my goals come from set pieces and corners. 

-       Technicals should just be good for each individual position. 

When scouting, prioritize mentals first. Always. 

--

 

Hope this helps. First post so apologize for lack of image formatting. Thanks 

442 Simeone H.fmf 442 Simeone A.fmf 442 Simeone PTB.fmf

[Meiersson]

looks great! will give it a try

[OConnellFC]

Couple other comments:

- I wish the WP and IW would operate as AM. Sometime's they just aren't narrow enough. I tried Very Narrow but they issue with very narrow is the CMs would be so narrow that the WBs would try to pass back to the CMs and we'd often turnover the ball because the CMs were so far away from the wings, so I use Narrow and that seemed to fix the issue.

- As I mentioned, the CM Su that I use as a CM D keeps a straight line in defense, but even with hold position, he sometimes gets too far forward in attack. I have no idea how to resolve this and just live with it. I try to add stays back at all times as a trait.

- For whatever reason, the GK, even with aim for target man, will distribute to random positions. This drives me nuts but I guess the TM is marked and the GK has to make a decision.

- I constantly tweak set pieces. My corners work well with my TM or CD with jumping reach getting many goals. Defending set pieces is a nightmare. I continue to tweak. Currently have a lot of positions man marking and sitting back to help but I still concede from time to time on free kicks. I have my TM mark tall player and that has helped. 

- Passing directness - direct was too sporadic. Standard seems to work well. I would use shorter passing if my team was the favorite to win and likely switch mentality to Positive. My CDs are too slow to operate with a higher line. I have tried and gotten burned. 

- Mentality - I use Balanced and Cautious. Using higher tempo makes us more attacking in offense. I did try using Attacking and dropping the line, but my players were often in poor position when I did that. 

[kevaggel]

On 10/09/2020 at 17:56, OConnellFC said:

- I wish the WP and IW would operate as AM. Sometime's they just aren't narrow enough. I tried Very Narrow but they issue with very narrow is the CMs would be so narrow that the WBs would try to pass back to the CMs and we'd often turnover the ball because the CMs were so far away from the wings, so I use Narrow and that seemed to fix the issue.

I am testing from MR/L position the WM-At role heavily modified with PIs to emulate WP and IW or Winger roles. So far i am happy with how narrow the y stand leaving space for the wing backs to overlap and defensive compactness in the midfield.
Here are the semi-WP:

And the semi-winger:

[OConnellFC]

On 18/09/2020 at 06:18, kevaggel said:

I am testing from MR/L position the WM-At role heavily modified with PIs to emulate WP and IW or Winger roles. So far i am happy with how narrow the y stand leaving space for the wing backs to overlap and defensive compactness in the midfield.
Here are the semi-WP:

And the semi-winger:

I have tried using WM At with PIs, but I find in attack, they get too far forward and don't act like attacking midfielders. They almost act as additional players in the frontline. I have recently started using WP At on both sides. I don't like using two playmakers, but it seems to work. I think the reason it works how I want is because the WP At does not have the gets further forward instruction on its default.

 I also switched by midfield to CM D and CM Su, and the CM Su has get farther forward and/or moves into channels depending on if I am using a Target Man or not. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by OConnellFC

[kevaggel]

Another option is to try an asymmetric midfield like this one:
 

[Jaffa]

For some reason the .fmf file isn't showing up in game, I've never had this issue before, any ideas?

(Note... I am not lazy I did read the whole post, just makes sense to download the tactic!)

[pilif25]

8 minutes ago, Jaffa said:

For some reason the .fmf file isn't showing up in game, I've never had this issue before, any ideas?

(Note... I am not lazy I did read the whole post, just makes sense to download the tactic!)

Try redownloading and putting it in a separate (sub)folder.

[Jaffa]

Thanks Pilif, I'll try that.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Jaffa

[OConnellFC]

I'm a big fan of BusttheNet on YouTube. I just saw he had an article from FM15 - this is super helpful as well:

https://www.addictedtofm.com/fm15-evolution-of-simeones-442/

 

[carloshcorbalan]

Can someone build Atlético de Simeone's tactics with Luis Suarez .. ???

[OConnellFC]

On 25/09/2020 at 19:02, carloshcorbalan said:

Can someone build Atlético de Simeone's tactics with Luis Suarez .. ???

It's relatively similar but Atletico have been pressing higher this season. This is good analysis of Joao Felix but you can also see Ateltico's shape:

Suarez likely a CF At or Su. One of your strikers should be on support. I believe Felix is a natural DLF in FM.

 

[carloshcorbalan]

ok...

Seguro algun experto dirá táctica de acuerdo a este informe...

gracias...

 

[ta11zx]

On 19/09/2020 at 11:31, OConnellFC said:

I have tried using WM At with PIs, but I find in attack, they get too far forward and don't act like attacking midfielders. They almost act as additional players in the frontline. I have recently started using WP At on both sides. I don't like using two playmakers, but it seems to work. I think the reason it works how I want is because the WP At does not have the gets further forward instruction on its default.

 I also switched by midfield to CM D and CM Su, and the CM Su has get farther forward and/or moves into channels depending on if I am using a Target Man or not. 

Can you post links to the final version of your tactic?

 

I'm using this for fm 21 with burnley and getting great results.  Just drew 1-1 vs city at home.  

 

Great work 

[krript]

these tactics work better in fm 21, especially home tactic.

[carloshcorbalan]

Any  updated  link ... ????     

[OConnellFC]

Latest tactics attached (set pieces included in tactics). Notable changes include:

- Both midfielders in Cm Su duty. More defensive midfield trains in defensive unit and is instructed to hold position, dribble less, and shoot less often. This helps create the flat lines in defense that Simeone utilizes. It looks beautiful (see image below).

- Wide Players - most of the season I just used 2 inverted wingers. Recently switched my LW to a WP and that player has increased his assist amount. I would recommend one WP and one IW

- Fullbacks - started the season with one FB At and one FB Su. noticed my fullbacks weren't close enough to the wingers/not overlapping enough, so switching them both to attack duty and switching my inverted winger from Attack to Support helped this. Also per pervious post, IW on Attack get too far forward and almost act as another striker in offense, so the Su duty is better here. 

- GK - I'm using a bog standard GK role here. If I push high up (as in my "High" line version of the tactic), I use. a SK D. 

- Start every game with Balanced tactic. Standard def line and lower line of engagement (very compact). I have found if I use lower def line and very low line of engagement, we concede long shots like crazy, so instead of dropping lines in my "low" tactic, I just changed mentality to defensive as that slightly lowers the line of engagement while remaining compact and busy in the midfield. 

- Passing and Tempo - I use more direct and extremely high tempo. The club vision of my current club wanted direct play, but it actually works perfectly in this match engine. In FM20, direct passing I found to be way too direct and sloppy. in FM21, we still maintain ~40% possession most games while being explosive on counter attacks. 

Current OI's attached. I always have my attacking striker mark the DM or CM on his side so that he tracks back on defense. I ask our players to push the opposition wingers to the outside (instead of weak foot). Anyone that comes through the middle is tackled hard. I have fiddled with these quite a bit, but this current setup has worked ok. 

 

 

Look at this shape in defense using the balanced tactic (usually switch to cautious mid game if we are winning):

 

 

442 Simeone.fmf 442 Simeone High.fmf 442 Simeone Low.fmf

[blackmoix]

Thanks a lot. I love Simeone's tactics.
Do you think it could work with Joao Félix in the midfielder?
I made some change in midfield, instead of CM, the combination PVO and CTT works for me

[OConnellFC]

1 hour ago, blackmoix said:

Thanks a lot. I love Simeone's tactics.
Do you think it could work with Joao Félix in the midfielder?
I made some change in midfield, instead of CM, the combination PVO and CTT works for me

What does PVO and CTT stand for? I would use Felix as a Mezzala. In the Simeone slide deck, the attacking central midfielder would sometimes move into channels, just depends on what striker setup you have in front of you. A Mezzala on Support will still track back too. However, if I had Felix in my squad, I would definitely use in some sort of DLF/F9 or Shadow Striker role. He's a potent, creative player and less built for midfield tackling and positioning. 

[blackmoix]

PVO = DLP- sup

CCT= BBM- sup

[ta11zx]

On 03/01/2021 at 17:13, OConnellFC said:

Latest tactics attached (set pieces included in tactics). Notable changes include:

- Both midfielders in Cm Su duty. More defensive midfield trains in defensive unit and is instructed to hold position, dribble less, and shoot less often. This helps create the flat lines in defense that Simeone utilizes. It looks beautiful (see image below).

- Wide Players - most of the season I just used 2 inverted wingers. Recently switched my LW to a WP and that player has increased his assist amount. I would recommend one WP and one IW

- Fullbacks - started the season with one FB At and one FB Su. noticed my fullbacks weren't close enough to the wingers/not overlapping enough, so switching them both to attack duty and switching my inverted winger from Attack to Support helped this. Also per pervious post, IW on Attack get too far forward and almost act as another striker in offense, so the Su duty is better here. 

- GK - I'm using a bog standard GK role here. If I push high up (as in my "High" line version of the tactic), I use. a SK D. 

- Start every game with Balanced tactic. Standard def line and lower line of engagement (very compact). I have found if I use lower def line and very low line of engagement, we concede long shots like crazy, so instead of dropping lines in my "low" tactic, I just changed mentality to defensive as that slightly lowers the line of engagement while remaining compact and busy in the midfield. 

- Passing and Tempo - I use more direct and extremely high tempo. The club vision of my current club wanted direct play, but it actually works perfectly in this match engine. In FM20, direct passing I found to be way too direct and sloppy. in FM21, we still maintain ~40% possession most games while being explosive on counter attacks. 

Current OI's attached. I always have my attacking striker mark the DM or CM on his side so that he tracks back on defense. I ask our players to push the opposition wingers to the outside (instead of weak foot). Anyone that comes through the middle is tackled hard. I have fiddled with these quite a bit, but this current setup has worked ok. 

 

 

Look at this shape in defense using the balanced tactic (usually switch to cautious mid game if we are winning):

 

 

442 Simeone.fmf 51.62 kB · 40 downloads 442 Simeone High.fmf 51.63 kB · 29 downloads 442 Simeone Low.fmf 51.62 kB · 30 downloads

pretty good result.  lost 1-0 to juventus away as Torino FC.  we missed a penalty or would have ended 1-1.

they had 20 shots and 60% possession. 

every highlight was a heart attack.  loved it

[OConnellFC]

13 hours ago, ta11zx said:

pretty good result.  lost 1-0 to juventus away as Torino FC.  we missed a penalty or would have ended 1-1.

they had 20 shots and 60% possession. 

every highlight was a heart attack.  loved it

Haha sounds thrilling. Did you drop mentalities? I would have dropped to Cautious at least and switched counter press to regroup. Versus Juventus, I might even have used the Defensive mentality tactic. 

[ta11zx]

1 hour ago, OConnellFC said:

Haha sounds thrilling. Did you drop mentalities? I would have dropped to Cautious at least and switched counter press to regroup. Versus Juventus, I might even have used the Defensive mentality tactic. 

I just went with the balanced one and didnt change a thing.  

which tactics would you reccomend for underdog vs being favourite or trying to score a goal last 10 mins after being down.?

[OConnellFC]

1 hour ago, ta11zx said:

I just went with the balanced one and didnt change a thing.  

which tactics would you reccomend for underdog vs being favourite or trying to score a goal last 10 mins after being down.?

Use the High tactic if you are the favorite and have a good enough back line to not get beat on a direct counter. It widens the players slightly (using Positive mentality and fairly wide width) and brings the defensive lines up. Also asks to press the opposition GK and counter press (ie higher pressing). You just have to be careful if you have slower center backs. I prefer the taller, heading/marking/tackling center backs and often will give up some pace for their sheer height in defense and set pieces. If you are the underdog. I usually take the balanced tactic and switch to cautious mentality. I may ask to regroup... just depends on how the game plays out. I watch all my games on at least Extended highlights, sometimes Comprehensive to figure out what is going on and tweak from there.

[ta11zx]

1 minute ago, OConnellFC said:

Use the High tactic if you are the favorite and have a good enough back line to not get beat on a direct counter. It widens the players slightly (using Positive mentality and fairly wide width) and brings the defensive lines up. Also asks to press the opposition GK and counter press (ie higher pressing). You just have to be careful if you have slower center backs. I prefer the taller, heading/marking/tackling center backs and often will give up some pace for their sheer height in defense and set pieces. If you are the underdog. I usually take the balanced tactic and switch to cautious mentality. I may ask to regroup... just depends on how the game plays out. I watch all my games on at least Extended highlights, sometimes Comprehensive to figure out what is going on and tweak from there.

perfect

and im assuming you use low to "see games out" or against heavy favorites in their backyard? 

[OConnellFC]

3 minutes ago, ta11zx said:

perfect

and im assuming you use low to "see games out" or against heavy favorites in their backyard? 

You know with this match engine sitting too low was not working for me. I used to use Cautious and drop the lines to Much Lower Defensive Line/Lower Line of Engagement, but long shots were going in left and right. So I changed to Defensive mentality and kept the lines similar to the balanced tactic. I do that, I might tick on more time wasting, play for set pieces, and lower tempo to just Higher or Normal as I see a game out. I also might sub off a striker and put on another center back or midfielder depending on the opponent formation. The Simeone tactic is not plug and play, it does require some in-game tinkering, but this is what I really like about it. And when it works, it works well. 

Edited January 6, 2021 by OConnellFC

[krript]

has anyone tried his 352 home and away verions? i tried that but it was not successful.

[blackmoix]

Anyone have the new Simeone tactic and make it work on FM 21?

[Petyr Baelish]

did anybody try new versions of simeone's 442 home, away and ptb? i tried old one but it did not work on fm 22.