ccassaday Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Hi everyone. I'm a long time FM player but one that rarely posts to the forums. I came across a bit of a curiosity tonight... My Chelsea team has been on an incredible run of form over the last month or so of matches. Tactics are spot on and I'm winning matches home and away, 6-0, 5-1, 5-0, etc. with wonderful flowing football... Suddenly, I came across an away fixture against Cardiff (somehow 3rd in the table) that I was defeated by a couple of fluky goals where my attacking players were just 'off'. Out of curiosity I didn't save and re-loaded the fixture... Same result and similar type of errors by my team. I've now run this match four times and have encountered the same type of result each time. A loss, coupled with opponent goals that are aided by my capable defenders suddenly having terrible touches, or ignoring the ball completely, etc., while my very in form attackers suddenly can do nothing right. I thought that losing this fixture occasionally due to errors would be a possible occurrence simply due to chance. But the fact that I've now lost it multiple times in a very similar manner makes me question how much it's down to chance. Does the ME script results to keep a team from un-realistically dominating too much? Otherwise I'm at a loss for why this same fixture continues to turn out the same way over and over again. Thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 No. Results are not scripted in any way. Everything you do has an influence on the match. The reason your fixture keeps turning out similarly will be a mixture of motivation and tactical approach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 No scripts, put it this way... If In real life you could replay a match that's just finished exactly, right down to the finest detail, would it be the same result? It would damn sure be similar. Chance is just down to all the circumstances coming together on that day to create that result.. i.e fitness, morale, formations, pitch conditions, which players, which ref, which crowd, which day, what time... the list is endless At the end of the day, you are just replaying the exact same circumstances over BUT, every decision you make in-game during it will change the circumstances and will essentially re-calculate the result. The dodgy result is down to the same things as a shock in real life... That particular set of circumstances coming together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedJonnyBoy Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 As Einstein said, ''doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the sign of insanity'' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMNT10 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Every single video game ever created is scripted. It has to be. It is a formulated game, not real life. They all are set to give a fixed result when matching a specific factor programmed into a game. That's video games. But luckily in today's world, video games are more complex and aren't as predictable. The script is more in-depth and have multitudes of factors that effect the output. As a whole, the match I do not believe is pre-determined in any way at any time. There are many factors that are fixed and produce an specific outcome, but it is also calculated into a lot of other factors that are random and vary match to match, team to team, player to player, even if you re-play the match over and over under the same circumstances. In real life, teams in all sports go on crazy steaks and then out of no where, they crumble. Either it be just for a game, or several. It happens. Hot spells, cold spells, etc. So to see that in a video game shouldn't come to a surprise. But I do not believe it is fixed to happen and already formulated to happen pre-match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityAndColour Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 "Out of curiosity I reloaded..." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFCEaves31 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 No scripts, put it this way...If In real life you could replay a match that's just finished exactly, right down to the finest detail, would it be the same result? It would damn sure be similar. Chance is just down to all the circumstances coming together on that day to create that result.. i.e fitness, morale, formations, pitch conditions, which players, which ref, which crowd, which day, what time... the list is endless At the end of the day, you are just replaying the exact same circumstances over BUT, every decision you make in-game during it will change the circumstances and will essentially re-calculate the result. The dodgy result is down to the same things as a shock in real life... That particular set of circumstances coming together. Explain this then... Does my computer have a bug? Does the my game have a bug? http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/381750-This-is-just-a-joke... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 "Out of curiosity I reloaded..." Yeah I laughed at that. Save and reload merchant. Err to answer the OP, no, results are not scripted. Every little thing you do has an effect on the outcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafuge Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Out of curiosity I didn't save and re-loaded the fixture... Same result and similar type of errors by my team. I've now run this match four times and have encountered the same type of result each time. Obviously we can't explain this in terms of real life football, but have you seen the film Groundhog Day? If you try a changing a variety of things in the way you approach it each time, eventually you might get the result you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Explain this then... Does my computer have a bug? Does the my game have a bug?http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/381750-This-is-just-a-joke... No, there is no bug there. You lost. You lost badly. It happens. It doesn't matter how many times you re-load it. Every time you do, you're wiping out the previous result as if it never happened, therefore you can't say 'but I won this game the first time I played it, how could this happen?' because you've only ever played the fixture once (in the game world). Every game is different. Generally the best team with the best tactics in a fixture will win, but just like in real life, freak results will happen. Think of that time Manchester United beat Arsenal 8-2. They could have replayed that fixture 100 times, and not got that result again. My own team once beat a top division side 6-2 in a cup tie once. That was a once in a lifetime result. Play the same fixture again, with all conditions the same, and that result is never happening again. It was one of those nights where everything clicked for the 'small' team. I don't know how long it's going to take before people realise that re-loading the same fixture over and over to try and determine some sort of 'pattern' is absolutely futile and pointless. There's no real life scenario to compare it with and the whole concept is flawed on so many levels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggusD Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 When you save the game right before the match starts, a lot of things outside the match engine will have been stored. The random factors affecting a match will be minimized, especially if you use the same players, tactics and team talks. When you start the match, it is calculated in its entirety (or at least until half-time). This is how the game knows when to start a highlight. However, when you make a change (like a sub, or adding/removing an instruction), the entire match is calculated again. Since the input is all the same each time you play this match, the same things are likely (but not guaranteed) to occur, because even with the exact same input there is some randomization going on. So what can you do in such a scenario with the input you can change on such short notice? Well, you can change tactics, play 11 different players and tell them something completely different. That is actually a lot of important input into the match engine right there! Thinking closely about what is going on is always a good idea, though. The least "intrusive" of input of those options, is to change the team talk. There are many who says that team talks do not have a win/lose effect on performances, and they are probably right about that - it is not an all-powerful tool. But football is often about margins... very small margins, and in a tight match where keeping the right focus is all-important, team talks may tip the odds just enough in your favour. So based on the information in the OP, it appears your team is in exceptionally good form. Several wins in a row, top of the table, high morale, an attacking tactic able to decimate the opponent on a good day right? Well, this likely means that you have praised them continuously at full time several matches in a row. I am still learning about the "morale/motivation module" in FM14, but it is still a matter of using the tools at hand to help the players keep the right focus; applying enough pressure to keep them on edge but not so much that they become nervous. Confidence is a good thing, but too much of it becomes overconfidence - they believe they can turn up and win without effort. To counter that, you will have to increase the pressure you put on them while being aware that media-buildup and fan's expectations in front of a match adds or removes pressure on its own. One explanation for your repeated poor results and performances in this replayed match against Cardiff is that your players believed they could just turn up and win. Another is that they are expected to win, favourites, but Cardiff is in great form and this adds extra pressure. Then you add even more pressure on them with your team talk. If you are Swansea, that's also extra pressure. Or it may have nothing to do with pressure/confidence levels, but rather that Cardiff has had great success counter-attacking and your tactics play straight into their strengths. Or what about the weather/pitch conditions? I often struggle to play my game in poor, wet conditions. Yet to figure out what to do when the opponent plays a type of football that gives them a big advantage in such conditions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doki1919 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 This game has to have at least some form of script because types of goals are quite unbelievable. Ok, surprises happen all the times and I'm OK with it but the way they come it's just retar***. In first game against Villa (with Arsenal), they scored two headed goal from set pieces. OK, it can happen, but I went to team report and found out that Villa scored just 1 goal in 50 games. And I can't understand how could they score 2 goals in one game if they have scored just 1 in 50. But second game is a real representation how broken is this game. Played with different tactics, but still the same result. Video will say everything. [video=youtube;hq-TDxwt0U0] But he saved the penalty. I understand that this is a very complex game and it's hard to implement reality in ME, but you should make more balance between match result and reality. It's okay to lose, but thenmake it real. I believe it's scripted because I had a few games throught the game that you can't win. And I'm dissapointed because I have been playing this game since 2005 and this is the worst (most unreal) game. You should admit that game is broken and need rebalancing and stop give us tips how should we play it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 This game has to have at least some form of script because types of goals are quite unbelievable. Ok, surprises happen all the times and I'm OK with it but the way they come it's just retar***. In first game against Villa (with Arsenal), they scored two headed goal from set pieces. OK, it can happen, but I went to team report and found out that Villa scored just 1 goal in 50 games. And I can't understand how could they score 2 goals in one game if they have scored just 1 in 50. But second game is a real representation how broken is this game. Played with different tactics, but still the same result. Video will say everything. [video=youtube;hq-TDxwt0U0] But he saved the penalty. I understand that this is a very complex game and it's hard to implement reality in ME, but you should make more balance between match result and reality. It's okay to lose, but thenmake it real. I believe it's scripted because I had a few games throught the game that you can't win. And I'm dissapointed because I have been playing this game since 2005 and this is the worst (most unreal) game. You should admit that game is broken and need rebalancing and stop give us tips how should we play it. Nonsense. It's not scripted in anyway. At a loss as to why SI should admit that when its not even remotely true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doki1919 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 OK, let me rephrase it. SI should admit problems with implementing reality in ME. It can't be 100% real (it's impossible) but we should have realistic experience. Previous games were better and I heard that beta was good too so they can make good game. And here i don't talk about hardness - FM 12 wasn't easy, but had much more realistic experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Stopped reading your original post when you said "But second game is a real representation how broken is this game." Just nonsense. If it was broken it wouldn't work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 FM 12 wasn't easy, but had much more realistic experience. This is where your argument falls flat on its face, I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerhgrrrrrr Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 No scripts, put it this way...If In real life you could replay a match that's just finished exactly, right down to the finest detail, would it be the same result? It would damn sure be similar. Im sorry but that is pure speculation and in no way based on fact as this scenario is impossible to prove. I know some posters are suggesting conspiracies and all kind of illogical daft stuff bit Moderators must keep clear of opinion presented as "damn sure" facts, in my option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doki1919 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 This is where your argument falls flat on its face, I'm afraid. It wasn't easy and it didn't rely on unrealistic goals. Look at this video. It wouldn't be a problem if they scored two realistic goals but when they score like this, it's stupid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 It wasn't easy and it didn't rely on unrealistic goals. Yes it was, and yes it did. Far more unrealistic goals than the current version. Unless you count being able to pass through a player as though he was made of smoke 'realistic'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenSammy Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Of course the game is scripted, just in a way that it's possible to use the art of semantics to suggest that it isn't... Science is deterministic, this is science..There is currently only one thing in the entire universe that refutes the laws of science, and that's a black hole.. Unless this game is a black hole...It's scripted..Randomness doesn't exist and doesn't apply to this game, the definition is even a contradiction in and of itself. Games are dynamic, butt loads of information floating about that can effect the outcome of a particular game, and this is good. Doesn't mean the game isn't scripted though. You could be all clever and say the ME doesn't pre-create a list of scenario's to play out, therefore the game isn't scripted, but like I said, semantics.. The game might do something like this though...Tactic A, beats Tactic B, therefore, the game will "randomly" employ a sequence of scenarios to allow this to happen This is why so many people often see unrealistic and stupid things happen, almost like the game is trying to make you lose.. Sometimes keepers are superhuman, sometimes they chuck themselves on the floor as the ball bounces over them.. It's why the AI can press a button and instantly solve your tactics, so on and so forth.. It's not quite this black and white, but hey, it's this way because it can't be any other way.. It's why people get to say "It's your tactics" so much.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Of course the game is scripted, just in a way that it's possible to use the art of semantics to suggest that it isn't...Science is deterministic, this is science..There is currently only one thing in the entire universe that refutes the laws of science, and that's a black hole.. Unless this game is a black hole...It's scripted..Randomness doesn't exist and doesn't apply to this game, the definition is even a contradiction in and of itself. Games are dynamic, butt loads of information floating about that can effect the outcome of a particular game, and this is good. Doesn't mean the game isn't scripted though. You could be all clever and say the ME doesn't pre-create a list of scenario's to play out, therefore the game isn't scripted, but like I said, semantics.. The game might do something like this though...Tactic A, beats Tactic B, therefore, the game will "randomly" employ a sequence of scenarios to allow this to happen This is why so many people often see unrealistic and stupid things happen, almost like the game is trying to make you lose.. Sometimes keepers are superhuman, sometimes they chuck themselves on the floor as the ball bounces over them.. It's why the AI can press a button and instantly solve your tactics, so on and so forth.. It's not quite this black and white, but hey, it's this way because it can't be any other way.. It's why people get to say "It's your tactics" so much.. Except thats not what happens. The ME calculates what happens on the pitch 4? (or is it now 8?) times a second. It calculates where the ball is, what the 22 players are doing, what the officials are doing and any decisions that are made by the players (As to pass, tackle, shoot, make a run etc). All those calculations determine the final result of the match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujigatame Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 While I am a programmer myself and don't believe that the game is "scripted" there are definitely games where it seems like one team can do no right. Every touch is heavy, every pass is errant, players repeatedly make awful errors and decisions. You'll be 2 to 1 favorites but replay the same match with tactical tweaks half a dozen times and lose every time. This generally always happens to the away team, with some small exceptions. This is why I've always been highly suspicious of the game's treatment of morale and motivation, and the way home/away advantage is modeled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Im sorry but that is pure speculation and in no way based on fact as this scenario is impossible to prove. I know some posters are suggesting conspiracies and all kind of illogical daft stuff bit Moderators must keep clear of opinion presented as "damn sure" facts, in my option. Well unless you are calling SI liars, then its a "damn sure" fact the game is not scripted. If people want to know why you don't get the likes of PaulC answering these threads, its because they have answered the same threads before. repeatedly, with the same answer. It's not scripted. Next crazy conspiracy please. Closing this thread as this is exactly how such misinformation (such as BenSammy's completely wrong post) spreads Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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