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The 2012-2013 Manchester United Thread: Thank you, Sir Alex


ddidiodion

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Im baaaaaaaccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkk

:D

My self imposed sabbactical from these parts is now official over.

Kagawa signing for us is a great deal, will be a top player and will be able to take some of the pressure off of Rooney up front.

I just hope he is played behind the striker/s though where he is most effective. Depends on formation though really.

Run in at the end of the season looks mighty tough.

I wonder if he'll be tried out as a central mid. Be that attack minded creator behind Rooney and Chicharito/Welbeck.

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I wonder if he'll be tried out as a central mid. Be that attack minded creator behind Rooney and Chicharito/Welbeck.

SAF will definitely try it, but it will be a disaster as he will get overrun in a 2 man midfield with ease.

The guy is an AM who can also feature out wide but never a CM.

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SAF will definitely try it, but it will be a disaster as he will get overrun in a 2 man midfield with ease.

The guy is an AM who can also feature out wide but never a CM.

Aye, SAF the tactical incompetent who got us to two Champions League finals and 3 consecutive title wins in recent years. Yawn.

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SAF will definitely try it, but it will be a disaster as he will get overrun in a 2 man midfield with ease.

The guy is an AM who can also feature out wide but never a CM.

I know what he can do. I've been watching him since he was playing for Cerezo Osaka. Just making a suggestion that could get all of our best players on the pitch at the same time :)

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That wasn't entirely illogical until we saw the results.

Indeed. Using a workhorse in midfield to add energy and pressure is a sound strategy.

Speaking of strategy, I'm interesting in what you guys think about how much Queiroz actually affected the style of play at United or if you think he was the one who polished SAF's concepts on the training pitch?

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Thinking back to the City game, if Kagawa plays where Park did in behind Rooney would we have done better? I can definitely see that formation being used again with that change.

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Park was put there to track Yaya Toure iirc but it didn't work. Having Kagawa there would at least give Toure something to think about before he goes on those marauding runs from deep.

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The guy is an AM who can also feature out wide but never a CM.

Seem to remember saying the same about Anderson. Not entirely sure if I was right or not! Can't recall him having a bad game as an AM mind.

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Indeed. Using a workhorse in midfield to add energy and pressure is a sound strategy.

Speaking of strategy, I'm interesting in what you guys think about how much Queiroz actually affected the style of play at United or if you think he was the one who polished SAF's concepts on the training pitch?

The one weakness of SAF is his tactical nous, definetly room for improvement on this. Queiroz and McLaren to an extent did improve the teams tactical side and the results speak for themselves. I for one would be happy if we signed a new "tactically astute" assistant manager and better medical staff for next season.

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The one weakness of SAF is his tactical nous, definetly room for improvement on this. Queiroz and McLaren to an extent did improve the teams tactical side and the results speak for themselves. I for one would be happy if we signed a new "tactically astute" assistant manager and better medical staff for next season.

These kind of posts annoy me, you don't have any idea what goes on behind the scenes with tactics or the medical side of things. But one thing I do know is that it isn't Phelan's job to do tactics, it is Rene Meulensteen who does that so getting a new assistant won't improve tactics. Not that we aren't easily the best team tactically in the league anyway.

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The one weakness of SAF is his tactical nous, definetly room for improvement on this. Queiroz and McLaren to an extent did improve the teams tactical side and the results speak for themselves. I for one would be happy if we signed a new "tactically astute" assistant manager and better medical staff for next season.

I have to completely disagree. While I don't know exactly how influence or not the coaches/assistant managers have had on his tactical game, SAF has constantly shown throughout his managerial career of being in the top half of tactical managers. While he might not be one of the best ever he hardly has a lack of "tactical nous".

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These kind of posts annoy me, you don't have any idea what goes on behind the scenes with tactics or the medical side of things. But one thing I do know is that it isn't Phelan's job to do tactics, it is Rene Meulensteen who does that so getting a new assistant won't improve tactics. Not that we aren't easily the best team tactically in the league anyway.

We played Rafael and Park in central midfield against Blackburn and lost.

Fergusons strength is not letting players get bogged down in tactics, it works well against smaller teams (which is why we picked up 6 points more than City did vs the rest of the league) but gets us unstuck when we play teams who can match is footballing-wise.

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We played Rafael and Park in central midfield against Blackburn and lost.

Fergusons strength is not letting players get bogged down in tactics, it works well against smaller teams (which is why we picked up 6 points more than City did vs the rest of the league) but gets us unstuck when we play teams who can match is footballing-wise.

This. In all honesty the tactics might be fine but the personnel choises can be ridiculous. When we have the better team there are rarely big problems but as dion says, it can get messy when we don't.

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We played Rafael and Park in central midfield against Blackburn and lost.

Fergusons strength is not letting players get bogged down in tactics, it works well against smaller teams (which is why we picked up 6 points more than City did vs the rest of the league) but gets us unstuck when we play teams who can match is footballing-wise.

You don't do what we have in Europe without being good tactically. Time and time again we have out thought the opposition rather than out played them. And other than last season we have done brilliant in the league against the big sides.

Not sure what you are getting at with the Blackburn game, we were recked with injuries at the time and didn't lose because of the midfield.

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When you are picking players for roles they are in no way suited, probably

Aside from having major injury issues or the odd attempt at a defensive player in central midfield, has this actually been an issue? I'm not being argumentative, I just think some of the negatives mentioned are being quite selective. We beat Arsenal playing the twins on the wings because of injuries and no one brings that up as a tactical joke.

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You don't do what we have in Europe without being good tactically. Time and time again we have out thought the opposition rather than out played them. And other than last season we have done brilliant in the league against the big sides.

Not sure what you are getting at with the Blackburn game, we were recked with injuries at the time and didn't lose because of the midfield.

I'm trying to remember the last time we out-thought a team in the Champions League since 07-09, we've beaten the teams we were supposed to beat mostly and not beaten the ones we shouldn't. When was the last time we beat a team in the Champions League that was better than us? Since Ronaldo left we've played our own game and if it's good enough we've beaten them, if it wasn't they beat us.

We lost the Blackburn game because we totally failed to control the match and allowed Blackburn far too many chances, a large part of that was down to the meltdown in midfield.

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They scored twice from set pieces though iirc and both were our mistakes that were totally preventable and nothing to do with the midfield. Berba fouls Samba from a free kick and De Gea flaps at a corner. I can't be assed having a big debate about it but just because people don't agree with what Fergie does tactically or selection wise it doesn't mean he is wrong.

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Because we were far too open and let Blackburn get into positions where they could get set pieces in dangerous postions. Blackburn at home should have been a banker and if we'd played players in their proper positions it would have. How many times do we have to have a defensive crisis, play midfielder in defence, get swamped in midfield and hammered before he realises having a makeshift defence if you dominate in midfield is better than having a makeshift defence, makeshift midfield and getting nowhere?

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Again the 2 set piece goals they score weren't in dangerous positions. A corner is a corner and the free kick was from deep. We had one fit central midfielder and one fit centre back in the squad. The centre back being a shaky Jones. We didn't have the players in the squad to play a proper midfield or a proper defence unless you start Pogba and Cole baring in mind Anderson was nowhere near fit.

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Yes, you just get corners at random, you don't have to get the ball into the opposition 3rd at all... plus the fact we had Berbatov marking Yakubu rather than Ferdinand as he should have been. We had Ferdinand and Giggs who he was resting for "harder" games when he shouldn't have been, generally the whole thing was a shambles, he even got his subs wrong which is pretty rare for him.

You still haven't mentioned any of these times we've out-thought the opposition in the Champions League in the last few years.

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You still haven't mentioned any of these times we've out-thought the opposition in the Champions League in the last few years.

That is because I cba with looking back over those games to prove my point. I think what I think and you do the same, our minds won't be changed that much is obvious.

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And oddly enough with 62% possession the ball was in our half the same amount of time it was in theirs.

I'm sorry but that's just a ridiculous argument against being over run in midfield. Admittedly I can't recall the way the game played out but it's quite possible that a lot of that was the either team passing it around between them in the middle of the pitch without having any time of penetration.

While I agree with you that United haven't really "out thought" teams in a while, I also don't think you can focus on a period of a season where there were a lot of injuries as a way of pointing out the weaknesses of SAF's tactical side. Attempting to play two passers of the ball in midfield and a poacher up front in Hernandez versus Barcelona in the final? Absolutely. An attempt to keep the injury weakened Ferdinand and then almost 40 Giggs fresh during an injury crisis? A bit of a stretch.

And in regards to my own question. I've seen SAF as a far more proactive tactician than anything else. While the odd game as him being reactive (4-5-1 vs the stronger Arsenal sides for example), he doesn't really out think teams on a general basis. More so he looks to find a tactical framework which will make a team overly stronger than the opposition and then let the players make it happen, which is why sometimes there are some stinkers.

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I'm sorry but that's just a ridiculous argument against being over run in midfield. Admittedly I can't recall the way the game played out but it's quite possible that a lot of that was the either team passing it around between them in the middle of the pitch without having any time of penetration.

Who said anything about being over-run, I said we failed to control it and we had a bit of a meltdown. We had plenty of the ball but no way of keeping it in Blackburns half to apply pressure, there was lots of passing between defenders and very little forward momentum.

I've always seen Ferguson as a guy who has teams who play their own game regardless of the opposition, very rarely does he do anything special before the match. Against weaker teams this usually works if everyone is fit, against stronger teams it doesn't fare as well.

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Young was awful. Welbeck has one of the worst touches. Though i've never watched him properly, might have had a bad few games.

Young missing was good though, diving little cheating scumbag.

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Terrible display from everybody really, hard to play well from midfield and up when nobody is interested (or told) to move out from your own box (which is only a slight exaggeration). Perhaps the only setup that could have worked given the players England have, but still meant it was agonizingly boring to watch.

Off to a well-deserved holiday now, so come back rested and hungry to grab number 20 :thup:

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It's almost as if parking the bus leads to attacking players becoming isolated, having no options and therefore constantly under pressure which leads to heavy touches and trying to overdo things...

All of the attacking players were naff, it was the system.

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Thought Welbeck was one of England's best players of the tournament tbh.

Thought he was isolated and struggled to get involved, only players to come out of the tournament with their stock improved were Lescott and Gerrard.

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Most importantly, no injuries. Thats all I care about now, doubt the players will lose any sweat over what has been a decent tournament for them. A nice rest to come for them hopefully so they are ready for next season.

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