Rob1981 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Figured as much. English papers desperate to stir up trouble as usual. These are the people who were offering English fans money to throw bricks through windows during Italia 90, in the hope of creating some aggro to write about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Some fair points Niebiescy. But lost on the English. They (we, I'm Engish) have been telling others how it is, how it should be, how it will be in foreign lands and have been doing so for centuries. Nobody thinks we're arrogant. Much. That's the way it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Unrelated to the Euros though. The guys who did it weren't normal Euros fans. rather than anything to do with the Euros. I wonder how many times you are going to have to come in here and dissociate incidents from the Euros. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Am I the only one who thinks the only real thing wrong with Euro2012 is the English press? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Am I the only one who thinks the only real thing wrong with Euro2012 is the English press? No Kriss. There's at least two of us. Extend that to pretty much the majority of problems the England football team have had since as far back as I can remember. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niebiescy Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I wonder how many times you are going to have to come in here and dissociate incidents from the Euros. Well if you'd like to explain what two groups of fans from the same Polish city (where the tournament isn't being held) having a fight in a pub has to do with the Euros I'd be interested in listening to the story Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner4eva Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 A lot of reports today saying that the Czech right back last night (Gebre-Selassie?) was being racially abused during the game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 UEFA being as blinkered as FIFA and the English FA are, I see. It's a disgrace that a 'blind eye' is being turned towards this behaviour so as not to tarnished the name of the tournament. It's a feckin joke. Oh and in response to the John Terry thing - if the English FA and Roy Hodgson had any bollocks, he shouldn't be there. As soon as he was charged by police, he should have been suspended from the England team pending the result of the court case. Had I done such a thing in my job, that's what would have happened. Why should that **** be any different? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlander Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Just heard from a friend what happened in Lodz in the story posted earlier in this thread. It was not Polish thugs attacking foreigners for fun as the paper suggested. Widzew Lodz have a friendship with CSKA Moscow and the fans of those two clubs were drinking together in the city. This is also why they were speaking English as well as Russian. The LKS hooligans who are the biggest rivals of Widzew then attacked the pub full of their rivals. It was basically a domestic Polish hooligan incident rather than anything to do with the Euros. Doesn't excuse their behavior or justify them doing it, but fans of visiting nations shouldn't feel threatened by it. Russia is a visiting nation though But as I said I don't really see that racism/nationalism as an issue for those Euros for this championship. Of course, it's not very good. If Russian nationalists will want it and make a small PR campaign about it eve normal polish fans may be in danger when they visit Moscow. But I don't see it as a more of problem than almost with any other European countries tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpfc543 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 A lot of reports today saying that the Czech right back last night (Gebre-Selassie?) was being racially abused during the game Anti-racism experts say they identified racist abuse and far-right Russian flags during the second Euro 2012 match on Friday. The Football Against Racism in Europe (Fare) network says Czech Republic defender Theodor Gebre Selassie was racially abused during Russia's 4-1 win in Wroclaw. Fare director Piara Powar told AP that imperial "Russian Empire" flags were displayed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Select_screen_name: Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Anti-racism experts say they identified racist abuse and far-right Russian flags during the second Euro 2012 match on Friday.The Football Against Racism in Europe (Fare) network says Czech Republic defender Theodor Gebre Selassie was racially abused during Russia's 4-1 win in Wroclaw. Fare director Piara Powar told AP that imperial "Russian Empire" flags were displayed. Haha, what's one of them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Bit off on a tangent, but when is racism so despicable, yet nationalism ignored is it any different?? It's my theory that England v Scotland friendlies don't happen because of policing worries, nationalism and all that crap. Whether that's true or not....we don't have them. Then the whole Dublin episode where the England v Rep of Ireland friendly was abandoned back in '95, because of a pretty big portion of English nutjobs come decked out in Ulster Loyalist insignia (yet wonder how many could find Belfast on a map), singing "No surrender to the IRA" then just lobbing missiles on top of women and children Irish fans. Then way more recently I did an England away in Zagreb, where it was Croats giving to us "IRA" chants. And in return they get "Serbia" chants back at them and so on and it goes a bit ******* for a bit. The police (who were dressed like Robocop, were drawing fingers across their throats at us in some kind of friendly Croat welcome) were on it. Or some of those I saw were. That's not ok, but tolerated, but is it racism?? Yeah. It is to me and am not getting in to legal beaver definitions. But we were pre-dominatly white and attacked for our nationality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niebiescy Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Russia is a visiting nation though But as I said I don't really see that racism/nationalism as an issue for those Euros for this championship. Of course, it's not very good. If Russian nationalists will want it and make a small PR campaign about it eve normal polish fans may be in danger when they visit Moscow. But I don't see it as a more of problem than almost with any other European countries tbh. True they are visiting nationals, but there were problems due to local club affiliations rather than anything tournament related. Russian nationalists at the game yesterday had the black, yellow and white empire flags which are what seem to have angered FARE. Not sure why it's being labeled as a racist flag though. It's commonly held by supporters of the Russian far right but isn't of racist origins or meaning. The flag that appears to have caused the most problems though is the hammer and sickle. By bringing this to the game the thugs have managed to offend most of Poland for obvious reasons. Now next Tuesday appears set for even more violence than first predicted. I can't believe someone was stupid enough to fly it in the stadium. Far worse than any other things being reported considering the amount of people murdered by the Communist regimes. It is also illegal in Poland so am not sure how the stewards let it in? Here's the photo http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/552964_473411466018633_1938230526_n.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 A lot of reports today saying that the Czech right back last night (Gebre-Selassie?) was being racially abused during the game It's his own fault for choosing to play football & not be a Middle & Long Distance runner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 UEFA being as blinkered as FIFA and the English FA are, I see. It's a disgrace that a 'blind eye' is being turned towards this behaviour so as not to tarnished the name of the tournament. It's a feckin joke. Oh and in response to the John Terry thing - if the English FA and Roy Hodgson had any bollocks, he shouldn't be there. As soon as he was charged by police, he should have been suspended from the England team pending the result of the court case. Had I done such a thing in my job, that's what would have happened. Why should that **** be any different? He SHOULD have been suspended by both Club & Country pending the outcome of the trial. The trial should never have been held over as long as it has either. Should have gone ahead through the correct process in the same way as it would have done for anybody else. However, I think the FA are terrified that anything they did would cause problems with his trial. If they had suspended him & he had been found guilty, you can guarantee he'd have been looking for ways to sue the FA for pre-judging the trial & causing his guilty verdict. It's an absolute joke that he is there right now, but the FA have been spineless. They could have done the right thing & advised that it is what happens in day to day society & that they don't want to treat it differently in football, but they didn't & have caused all these issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Haha, what's one of them? Somebody who deal with issues of racism on a regular basis & have experience of working with victims & perpetrators to change the way people behave & to change people's perceptions of it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
av3ry Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Wait for Poland vs Russia for the hooliganism. That'll be crazy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 That's not what I'm saying. My point is that they would need to call the riot police into the stadium and baton the crap out of the guys doing it to get them to move. It would be nearly impossible to get them out of there, would make it impossible for the Dutch to train and would be an international PR disaster for the Polish government. It's easier to look into their faces on film and arrest them once they're identified. You can move individuals or small groups from stadiums for doing this, but you couldn't remove 500 people regardless of the country or your opinions on the issue. Even if the UK there is no way the police could get 500 people out of a stand without a long-lasting violent event and they wouldn't do this. They'd use CCTV to identify the culprits and then try and catch them by identifying them or putting their faces in the papers/on TV. totally right,l but will the people in the training ground crowd be arrested? I have my doubts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Somebody who deal with issues of racism on a regular basis & have experience of working with victims & perpetrators to change the way people behave & to change people's perceptions of it? Yup - someone who works for an organization such as Show Racism the Red Card (based in Newcastle) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niebiescy Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 totally right,l but will the people in the training ground crowd be arrested? I have my doubts. No idea One of the major problems is that UEFA are responsible for the security, not regular Poles. This is why the stewards were attacked by the Russians without receiving immediate backup support. In Poland that would never happen. Security teams work in large numbers and are armed with batons and mace. If this was the case yesterday it would've helped those guys out. I imagine UEFA are responsible for security for training sessions too. If they are then they are the ones who have to deal with the troublemakers. I am not sure on the level of CCTV/cameras at the stadium in Krakow so couldn't say whether the fans can be identified and found. Can't really comment on this case because of that. In Poland it is however common for troublemakers to be arrested after games rather than during them. It's too dangerous to go into these sectors because they will defend their own. Even the BBC said this on their Panorama where the man with the Anty Jude Front banner was arrested the next day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl-fikander Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 It is also illegal in Poland so am not sure how the stewards let it in? No it isn't: http://www.rp.pl/artykul/886671.html (in Polish) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niebiescy Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 No it isn't: http://www.rp.pl/artykul/886671.html (in Polish) The article refers to fans wearing t-shirts and clothing not to waving flags. I believe that waving the flag does equate to promoting Communism while having a t shirt is acceptable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl-fikander Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 The article refers to fans wearing t-shirts and clothing not to waving flags. I believe that waving the flag does equate to promoting Communism while having a t shirt is acceptable. Honestly I can't find any difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niebiescy Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Honestly I can't find any difference. I thought the government made it law that you can't display these things? Remember at the time even Che Guevara was going to be illegal. Maybe they've changed things for the Euros to allow fans to wear things they usually do? I hadn't seen that statement. Maybe it's just a law that they don't want to enforce. I have no idea what's happening. Just remember when it was announced a few years ago they said Communist symbols are now classified the same as Nazi ones. Obviously people have been jailed for Nazi ones so assumed they'd do the same for Communist. Obviously not now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 ....However, I think the FA are terrified that anything they did would cause problems with his trial. If they had suspended him & he had been found guilty, you can guarantee he'd have been looking for ways to sue the FA for pre-judging the trial & causing his guilty verdict.... Hmm, see your point but not sure that is true. If he was accused pending trial of what he is; many organisations in the UK (the Police for one?? Who you might expect to know how their actions prejudice 'fair trials') he'd be suspended, albeit on full pay, until the outcome. I want to see how Chelsea deal with it, for that alone hope he's convicted. Add in, despite not knowing the bloke, he comes across as a complete dross c**t I hope he's convicted x2. Call me petty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 That's the point. He should have been suspended on full pay. It'd make sense to do that. But it hasn't happened. Chelsea didn't do it & they should have led with it, so the FA, as his secondary employers are scared that by doing so, they'd be taking a different approach that may be perceived as influencing the case. It SHOULDN'T influence the case of course, but very expensive lawyers have a habit of taking full advantage of every single minor issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ybozkan Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 he should have been suspended with pay. i agree Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 That's the point. He should have been suspended on full pay. It'd make sense to do that. But it hasn't happened. Chelsea didn't do it & they should have led with it, so the FA, as his secondary employers are scared that by doing so, they'd be taking a different approach that may be perceived as influencing the case.It SHOULDN'T influence the case of course, but very expensive lawyers have a habit of taking full advantage of every single minor issue. Agreed, but not sure many juries/magistrates would look on suspending the c**k on full pay until the outcome as prejudicial to a fair trial. That's the norm, not the exception. Had they sacked him (or many accused of similar at work) before trial then that top notch lawyer suit might have something to work with in building a defence. That said my legal knowledge is pretty basic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 he should have been suspended with pay. i agree Me too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 There won't be any during games because the Ultras are boycotting the Euros due to them disagreeing with the event and also high ticket prices. They could cause problems at training due to free entry. Not sure about the Ukraine but it won't happen during matches in Poland. Not among Polish fans at least. The people there will be middle class and sit and watch the game rather than being hardcore nutters. So what we are saying is the matches will be fine as the scum causing the abuse can not afford a ticket for the game so we should be thankful for that and lets just allow them to abuse people at training as it is a fair trade off? Am I the only one who thinks the only real thing wrong with Euro2012 is the English press? Ahh I get it now...it was the English press at the training event giving the abuse to the Dutch players..sorry I missed that bit in the reports. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niebiescy Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 So what we are saying is the matches will be fine as the scum causing the abuse can not afford a ticket for the game so we should be thankful for that and lets just allow them to abuse people at training as it is a fair trade off?Ahh I get it now...it was the English press at the training event giving the abuse to the Dutch players..sorry I missed that bit in the reports. Nothing about it being a fair trade. Just that it won't happen during matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 So what we are saying is the matches will be fine as the scum causing the abuse can not afford a ticket for the game so we should be thankful for that and lets just allow them to abuse people at training as it is a fair trade off?Ahh I get it now...it was the English press at the training event giving the abuse to the Dutch players..sorry I missed that bit in the reports. Nothing about it being a fair trade. Just that it won't happen during matches. Racism in football in not something that should only be fought when it is convenient,it needs to be put down when ever it shows its evil face. The training incident should have been dealt with better and shown these people it will not be tolerated...they missed a chance there,hopefully they will be better prepared for the rest of the competition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlander Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 TBH, it's better for safety that most Russian fans out there are just middle class family guys. Not many Ultras. Otherwise, it could've been a real mess on Tuesday. Because those warning like what Niebiescy told would've provoked them to much of chanting and taunts aimed at Polish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niebiescy Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I agree with you. It is however not as easy to deal with as you'd like to think. You can't filter people when they enter based on whether or not they may be a racist and it's nearly impossible to eject a group of 500 people from a stadium. There is nothing that the Polish FA can do but punish those caught retrospectively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlander Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 One serious point I would like to make is to warn any Russians on here to avoid Warsaw next Tuesday. If they do go they should speak very quietly and not wear team colors. This "event" was arranged a few days ago but now the Polish Ultras groups are even more angry after the Russians beat the stewards last night. What ever you do not not wear anything with Communist symbols as they are illegal in Poland like Nazi symbols and wearing these could result in being attacked for obvious reasons. http://ceefootball.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/403388_373620916034124_1234204462_n4.jpg And so the official march of Russian fans in Warsaw on that day is already agreed and planned. Should be fun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
av3ry Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 They'll need these guys... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 That is brilliant Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
endtime Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillsminnow Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Also from the mirror site. Proper laughed at this - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/mum-with-23in-waist-has-bum-boosting-injections-870632 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 .....Ahh I get it now...it was the English press at the training event giving the abuse to the Dutch players..sorry I missed that bit in the reports. Out of interest, what sort of coverage did it get in Holland?? Or anywhere else in Europe. Not trying to catch anyone out, but just genuinely interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
av3ry Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/euro-2012/9322114/Euro-2012-new-racism-row-as-Czech-Republic-star-Theodor-Gebre-Selassie-is-targeted-by-Russia-fan.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Also from the mirror site. Proper laughed at this - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/mum-with-23in-waist-has-bum-boosting-injections-870632 Another freak - bloody ridiculous! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niebiescy Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Interested to hear if anything comes of these allegations against Russian fans in Wroclaw. Nobody seems to have heard anything apart from FARE's spotter. FARE obviously do some good work but there are also cases of them looking for racism when it doesn't exist such as their accusations of the Russian Imperial flag being a racist symbol. Using Stormfront in an article is ridiculous when it's the world's largest hate website. Of course people on there will be against Balotelli and write disgusting things. It however has nothing to do with the Euros. Just an internet forum full of outcasts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubenJ Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I wonder how many times you are going to have to come in here and dissociate incidents from the Euros. It however has nothing to do with the Euros. apparently still necessary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 apparently still necessary Good spot RubenJ, i actually read that post and missed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niebiescy Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 apparently still necessary My new catchphrase lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbert_o154 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Out of interest, what sort of coverage did it get in Holland?? I got the news from this place, I didn't see it in the Dutch media at all. Then again, some of the most popular news sources in the Netherlands are ones I don't follow, so maybe I just missed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMtillidie Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 not racism but...http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=132_1339229389 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlander Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 not racism but...http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=132_1339229389 That's the reason why there are no stewards in Russia at games. Only police. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMtillidie Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Stewards are useless, but theres no need for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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