Youth Development - The Guide

[LlamaZA]

So if a player's positional familiarity were to change - say a newgen followed the career path of Gareth Bale, starting as a natural fullback before being retrained into a natural winger / wide mid - then their 'preference' for certain training categories could also change? i.e. whereas before he would have had low training levels for, say, 'shooting', he might now have a higher training level for that?

I would like to think so

But I can't prove anything. Nearing the end of the month, will post updated Cleverley situation then

[LlamaZA]

Ok, so one month has passed and this is how Cleverley's training tab now looks:

As you can see, the only changes I've made to his training was to re-align his Defending and Shooting training.

Now there are many factors involved in training, and the schedule is just one of them. But overall he's had an improvement in all his Training Levels - including Shooting. On the downside he's moved from Pleased to Content with his training schedule (but this would only be an issue if his progress decreased).

I am tempted to adjust by one click down on Defending and up on Shooting since he does seem to be getting a lot of value now from Shooting training. Probably reassess in a month and see what other adjustments can be made.

This is a very fluid watch and adjust system, whereby I place the player on a training I feel is appropriate and then adjust as the months move to where he is showing preferences.

Things I look for - high Intensity and low Levels, low Intensity and high Levels, Intensity and Levels out of line (equal Intensity but unequal Levels). All these will result in me shifting clicks on the basis that I'm trying to maximise Level/Intensity across the spectrum of categories.

[joey7]

What is the lowest notch you can put an area on before it declines?

[LlamaZA]

What is the lowest notch you can put an area on before it declines?

No such thing. I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but for some players for some attributes it'll be 3 clicks for others in other attributes it'll 9. It all depends.

[joey7]

No such thing. I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but for some players for some attributes it'll be 3 clicks for others in other attributes it'll 9. It all depends.

Its exactly the answer I was looking for. Cheers!

[Cleon]

I've brought this up in another thread, but this one appears to be the 'go to' thread for Youth Development

It's a concept I picked up from another thread here that has also been lost along the way. In effect what it is, is that players have tendencies to improve certain stats faster or better than others.

What is suggested is that we can determine what these tendencies are by looking at the Training Levels of a player. When a player has a high training level despite low training or more importantly for us, low training level with high training level we are miss-matching the schedule with what is in the players natural growth. So in this regard I do a monthly check of the players to see if they are training optimally.

As an example, I'm using a reserve player on a non-player specific schedule to show you how my constant update process would work, and then I'll show you Cleverley's schedule which required minor updates. (unfortunately I'm into my second month of the season which means my players are already on adjusted schedules)

Here you can see the player is on my standard Fullback training schedule. What I want you to look at is the position of the sliders to the Training Levels, specifically the comparison the Ball Control and Attacking levels and sliders. (I can confirm that the player has been on this schedule for at least two months with no changes or injuries and as you'll notice his overall progress is good so there are no issues with his overall improvements)

The schedule he has is on 9 clicks Ball Control and 11 clicks on Attacking, but if we look at his Training Level you'll see that he is still twice as likely to increase in Ball Control attributes than Attacking ones. I suppose one could hold two theories on this, either it means we need more Attacking training to get his crossing and passing up, or we are wasting our time with Attacking training. I've taken a view that it is latter, what I would do in this instance is drop down his Attacking training by 2/3 clicks and transfer them to Ball Control where he appears to have an affinity for gaining attributes.

Here's Cleverley's situation:

Here the training is clearly biased towards Defending over Shooting despite the player having the same training intensity in the two categories. So this month I make the slight adjustment of moving two notches from Shooting to Defending.

My goal in all this is to make sure that when the player gains CA I maximise the the attribute increases I receive. I would guess the CA cost of Shooting attributes for Cleverley at this time significantly higher than Defending attributes and thus it makes more sense for us to distribute the players CA gain where it will be most optimally utilised.

This system may not work in those instances where you are trying to mould a player and are theoretically fighting against his natural attribute gain.

How much game time did they see during this time?

[LlamaZA]

How much game time did they see during this time?

Keane, none he's a reserve player.

Cleverley, one or two games - early season I give all players equal time to reduce fatigue at the end. He would've played the same amount roughly both months.

[Cleon]

I will get around to answering questions and giving my feedback once I get the time. I'm not ignoring anyone, just no time atm

[zagaluke]

I put Bourgeois to be tutored by Godeas, and it turned out to be a great idea, his stats are flying up and his determination has gone up one.

So now that I've got the tutor sorted, I'm wondering how to train him. At the moment I'm training his composure and when that rises to 16/17 I'll switch the focus to pace. I'm using him as a complete forward, any other suggestions?

EDIT:

Report

Training

I have him on the default training for strikers with higher workload, should I change this?

[Romanista1994]

So now that I've got the tutor sorted, I'm wondering how to train him. At the moment I'm training his composure and when that rises to 16/17 I'll switch the focus to pace. I'm using him as a complete forward, any other suggestions?

First touch and technique, so that he gets more chances and better by controlling the ball better. Perhaps the PPM 'Shoots with Power' in a couple of years? He'll be fairly central most of the time, has great finishing accuracy which will only improve and if you manage to get his technique above 16 he would be a deadly weapon in front of goal. The keepers just wouldn't be able to save powerful, well-struck and well-placed shots.

[5uare2]

I put Bourgeois to be tutored by Godeas, and it turned out to be a great idea, his stats are flying up and his determination has gone up one.

Just so you know, Godeas tutoring him isn't causing the rise in his attributes (except Determination, and maybe Influence?); it's affecting his 'personality' attributes, which are invisible (Professionalism, Temperament, Pressure, Ambition, etc.). It might give him PPM's as well, if Godeas has any.

So now that I've got the tutor sorted, I'm wondering how to train him. At the moment I'm training his composure and when that rises to 16/17 I'll switch the focus to pace. I'm using him as a complete forward, any other suggestions?

The only thing I'd change on that training schedule is to increase the focus on tactics - you need to improve his anticipation and his composure.

[Wes_Coulam]

@ Cleon - During pre season do you put your Goalkeepers on conditioning training?

Thanks x

[Cleon]

I do yeah

[ThinkingHurts]

This might sound obvious to some but not to me at least. But what do people take as a "good" attribute for a youngster to have, by that I mean if you were say a top flight champions league club would say 12/13 in key attributes and 10 in useful ones etc.. be considered good and how would this differ if you were say a Championship level team. Does anyone have opinions on this because I often see people describe their youngsters attributes as good but I have no idea how that is determined.

[zagaluke]

For an 18 year old, I look for stats around 14 in key areas and 11/12 in the other good ones if you want a top player. Also look for good determination and personality. You can see why I think Bourgeois is so good as he's only 16. This is just my opinion though.

[Cleon]

This might sound obvious to some but not to me at least. But what do people take as a "good" attribute for a youngster to have, by that I mean if you were say a top flight champions league club would say 12/13 in key attributes and 10 in useful ones etc.. be considered good and how would this differ if you were say a Championship level team. Does anyone have opinions on this because I often see people describe their youngsters attributes as good but I have no idea how that is determined.

Don't think of it that way.

What I do is take a look at the player as a whole and look at all the attributes for the required position and role he'll be playing for the club. It's much easier to see then how much he needs developing and how you're gonna shape him. Don't look at the player and think of the attributes as seperate things, think of them all as its much easier to judge. Also don't look for a certain 'start point' for a attribute either because as long as a player has potential then it can gain and become great later in a career with the right game time and training plan.

[JeanLucPicard]

Personally I've always used a training schedule for each position with decent success, also utilising tutoring if I've had the right players at the club, but probably not allowing players to develop as much as they could have. However, seeing how great a player Marcão has developed into, there's no reason why I shouldn't give it a chance. A quick question; how beneficial would an individual training schedule vs a position training schedule be for a lower league club with basic youth facilities/junior coaching? I recently began a save with Bristol Rovers in nPower Football League Two, gaining a promotion the first year and fighting for promotion to the Championship the current year (so obiously I'm doing something right), but considering I have almost no money the more prudent it becomes to develop good youth players.

[StylishKidsRiot]

Fantastic read but i really need to ask, what skin is this your using Cleon?

[Gee_Simpson]

Fantastic read but i really need to ask, what skin is this your using Cleon?

It's called Steklo X2 and you can find it in the skinning hideout sub forum or over at sortitoutsi

[Hugsy]

What you guys do when a player reaches hes PA? I have a MC with 26 years, and he was at full PA at 25 years and now suddenly some stats dropped out of nowhere, hes playing a lot, training well...What can i do to avoid that?

[Wes_Coulam]

Cleon/other training Guru's/Anyone who wants to give there 2cents ,

a bit of advice needed on the following player:-

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I have this very special youngster coming through he has 3.5 potential ability (same as Gotze) according to my ass man .

His training schedule is attached at the bottom of the screeny, im quite happy with how he is developing. My only issue his crossing & corners going up it's a useless stat for the central role i eventually want him to take i want to round him stat wise so he can slot in at St,AMC & MC. tackling is unimportant i'll play him next to someone who will make up for his defensive deficiencies.

So how can i stop his crossing & corners going up & any other suggestions on tweaking the schedule i currently have him (also do provide reason as it will help my small brain understand)

[onecapwonder]

On the subject of youth, I'm playing on FM11 and its become rather noticable that there hasn't been a half decent English or British player in my PL for years. I'm currently playing season 23/24 and there is only 1 English regen in the PL ( so essentially the game) I'd consider good enough for my side. The average number of English players per side is less than 3 and these are mainly 30+ year olds like Alex Oxlade-Chamberlin, Henri Landsbury e.t.c, I haven't had an English player in my first team squad for seasons. Currently there are 2 English youngsters in my reserves, neither of whom are really good enough and the odd half decent prospect in the U18s but again no one to set the world on fire this has been the pattern for the last decade of a maxed youth sytem and extensive scouting. Is this common for everyone or am I just unlucky? My standards may just be too high but if I can find regens from every other major footballing nation (and plenty of minor ones as well) good enough I don't see why there shouldn't be any Brits appearing.

[Cleon]

Things are getting back to normal so I should be able to update this thread again at the weekend hopefully. That's if Diablo 3 doesn't get in the way

I'll also try answering questions again now too

[Cleon]

What you guys do when a player reaches hes PA? I have a MC with 26 years, and he was at full PA at 25 years and now suddenly some stats dropped out of nowhere, hes playing a lot, training well...What can i do to avoid that?

Just focus on the attributes you use if possible. If he's at full PA and you see he's getting green arrows in other attributes then this will be gained by a drop in other attributes as he has no free PA left.

[Cleon]

Cleon/other training Guru's/Anyone who wants to give there 2cents ,

a bit of advice needed on the following player:-

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I have this very special youngster coming through he has 3.5 potential ability (same as Gotze) according to my ass man .

His training schedule is attached at the bottom of the screeny, im quite happy with how he is developing. My only issue his crossing & corners going up it's a useless stat for the central role i eventually want him to take i want to round him stat wise so he can slot in at St,AMC & MC. tackling is unimportant i'll play him next to someone who will make up for his defensive deficiencies.

So how can i stop his crossing & corners going up & any other suggestions on tweaking the schedule i currently have him (also do provide reason as it will help my small brain understand)

Have crossing and corners actually gone up? Or just showing a green arrow? there is a big difference between the 2.

[Cleon]

On the subject of youth, I'm playing on FM11 and its become rather noticable that there hasn't been a half decent English or British player in my PL for years. I'm currently playing season 23/24 and there is only 1 English regen in the PL ( so essentially the game) I'd consider good enough for my side. The average number of English players per side is less than 3 and these are mainly 30+ year olds like Alex Oxlade-Chamberlin, Henri Landsbury e.t.c, I haven't had an English player in my first team squad for seasons. Currently there are 2 English youngsters in my reserves, neither of whom are really good enough and the odd half decent prospect in the U18s but again no one to set the world on fire this has been the pattern for the last decade of a maxed youth sytem and extensive scouting. Is this common for everyone or am I just unlucky? My standards may just be too high but if I can find regens from every other major footballing nation (and plenty of minor ones as well) good enough I don't see why there shouldn't be any Brits appearing.

There are threads in General Questions about youth player regens and their nationalities. Having a search for them might be better for you

[TwinsFan86]

Cleon/other training Guru's/Anyone who wants to give there 2cents ,

a bit of advice needed on the following player:-

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I have this very special youngster coming through he has 3.5 potential ability (same as Gotze) according to my ass man .

His training schedule is attached at the bottom of the screeny, im quite happy with how he is developing. My only issue his crossing & corners going up it's a useless stat for the central role i eventually want him to take i want to round him stat wise so he can slot in at St,AMC & MC. tackling is unimportant i'll play him next to someone who will make up for his defensive deficiencies.

So how can i stop his crossing & corners going up & any other suggestions on tweaking the schedule i currently have him (also do provide reason as it will help my small brain understand)

Personally, I would swap the tactics and shooting sliders. Shooting only covers finishing and long shots and the finishing is easy enough to raise with individual focus and his mental attributes such as concentration, anticipation, and composure will be much more important in the role you've described for him.

I've very rarely see a green arrow on corners, so I'm not sure what would cause that, but crossing is in the attacking category, so you're going to see some increase in crossing with attacking as high as you've set it (along with creativity, passing, etc).

[Cleon]

Personally, I would swap the tactics and shooting sliders. Shooting only covers finishing and long shots and the finishing is easy enough to raise with individual focus and his mental attributes such as concentration, anticipation, and composure will be much more important in the role you've described for him.

I've very rarely see a green arrow on corners, so I'm not sure what would cause that, but crossing is in the attacking category, so you're going to see some increase in crossing with attacking as high as you've set it (along with creativity, passing, etc).

It does seem a waste to have shooting so high. If it was me I would also swap shooting for more tactic training. Then I'd use the individual focus to polish his finishing attribute and then composure.

[ri916]

Just started following this guide for my challenge game and I'm amazed with the results only a few months down the line. would it be alright if I put a link to this thread in my challenge thread?

[Shake Appeal]

I'd retrain Kris Murrall for the right wing. He could also make a decent inside forward down the left (with some intensive work on his dribbling and/or finishing). Most of the ways he might be most useful in the centre of the pitch will require a much more uphill path in his development. Obviously it depends what your tactical set-up is long-term.

[Cleon]

Just started following this guide for my challenge game and I'm amazed with the results only a few months down the line. would it be alright if I put a link to this thread in my challenge thread?

Sorry I was away for a week. Feel free to link to anything I've done

[number8_mail]

just find out something which might be helpful for tutoring young player - If the tutee has a high controversy rating, it is less likely this player want to be tutor by senior player and vice versa

[Romanista1994]

just find out something which might be helpful for tutoring young player - If the tutee has a high controversy rating, it is less likely this player want to be tutor by senior player and vice versa

True, and I reckon low temperament can also play a part in this.

[Cleon]

Hopefully I'll have a new part up for this thread by tomorrow at the latest. Been snowed under and not had much time recently.

[Soviet]

I would love to see your approach in English team, with just one U18 team . Would you promote players to reserves when they turn 17?

[Cleon]

I would love to see your approach in English team, with just one U18 team . Would you promote players to reserves when they turn 17?

I'd play the exact same, as its the same principles in Brazil.

I'd still create a custom schedule and put them on it. But they'd also play reserve and first team matches

[Nickpes21]

Great thread, well done Cleon for your work and all the others for contributing with ideas.

I have a question on tutoring. I have a Goalkeeper (his name is Kousidis, a regen player) aged 24 who is more than great ( I believe that he is one of the five best keepers world wide in my save game). I also have a very promicing youth keeper aged 17 (different nationality that my first one but has Kousidis on his favourite personel). Whenever I try to get Kousidis to tutor the younger one he does not appear as an option. I only get my "fourth best" keeper as an option (my third one also doesn't appear as an option but since he is the same age as Kousidis it may be the case).

Are there any parameters that define if a player can have as an option to tutor another one?

[Cleon]

Great thread, well done Cleon for your work and all the others for contributing with ideas.

I have a question on tutoring. I have a Goalkeeper (his name is Kousidis, a regen player) aged 24 who is more than great ( I believe that he is one of the five best keepers world wide in my save game). I also have a very promicing youth keeper aged 17 (different nationality that my first one but has Kousidis on his favourite personel). Whenever I try to get Kousidis to tutor the younger one he does not appear as an option. I only get my "fourth best" keeper as an option (my third one also doesn't appear as an option but since he is the same age as Kousidis it may be the case).

Are there any parameters that define if a player can have as an option to tutor another one?

He must have a lower squad status than the tutor and must't be considered better than the tutor. And the tutor has a maximum of 10 candidtes to tutor from. So if you had a lot of keepers this could be another reason why he doesn't show up (although im guessing this isn't the case). So it must be one of the first 2 reasons

[A_Sober_Paddy]

How does a players Bravery increase?

I'm looking at a new player, looking to play him as a Ball Winning Midfielder, but his bravery is way too low but other than that his stats are very good and his only 18.

Any advice and feedback, very much appreciated

[Cleon]

How does a players Bravery increase?

I'm looking at a new player, looking to play him as a Ball Winning Midfielder, but his bravery is way too low but other than that his stats are very good and his only 18.

Any advice and feedback, very much appreciated

With age really, but if it's low it will never be high.

[Falahk]

How does a players Bravery increase?

I'm looking at a new player, looking to play him as a Ball Winning Midfielder, but his bravery is way too low but other than that his stats are very good and his only 18.

Any advice and feedback, very much appreciated

if you feel the player needs bravery for the intended role you pretty much need a player that start on high bravery, since that attribute never developes much or fast, so the option would then be to train the player in question for a different role or to sell him for some extra cash

[RedBones]

How many of you set bespoke training routines for your youth squad?

I do it for my main squad, but have left the youth coaches to run the youth training (set on 'general' I think).

Does a 16-18 year old need a more balanced training method, as they need to improve all areas of their game, and they can then specialise more when they are slightly older?

Linked to this - my youth training setup is greyed out, so I couldn't alter this if I wanted to at present. How do you take over youth training duties as I've looked (not enough obviously) but I can't see how to amend the setting.

Thanks

[Dave Vessey]

I usually promote youth players who have some potential into the FT squad and make them available for the reserves. This lets you put them on full-time schedules (which I create rather than use the generic 'Forwards' category etc) and usually leads to massive boosts in their attributes.

I also make sure there's at least one reserve game each week (by arranging a friendly if there's no reserve league game) so they always have game time.

[Cleon]

I usually promote youth players who have some potential into the FT squad and make them available for the reserves. This lets you put them on full-time schedules (which I create rather than use the generic 'Forwards' category etc) and usually leads to massive boosts in their attributes.

I also make sure there's at least one reserve game each week (by arranging a friendly if there's no reserve league game) so they always have game time.

I follow the same logic really. Plus it allows me to give them sub apperances and cameo's during the actualy season

[R0ca]

To Be Honest in regards to player development and attribute growth Game time is crucial, If you want a player to go from this :-

To this

He has to play!

The attribute growth is down to the factors everyone has talked about previously, Training will give weightings on where the Ca goes i wanted a poacher as i felt Tete suited this position the best from the first image so i focused his training on this.

The real conundrum is getting the best out of these guys

[7Bestie7]

So the big question is how does one manage the playing time of youngsters without affecting team performances? Can I do an "Iniesta" with my players and bring them on as a substitute 25-35 minutes for 30-50 games and get the same development?

[Cleon]

So the big question is how does one manage the playing time of youngsters without affecting team performances? Can I do an "Iniesta" with my players and bring them on as a substitute 25-35 minutes for 30-50 games and get the same development?

The more game time the better the development.

[7Bestie7]

The more game time the better the development.

Cheers. I was worried that there was a bias towards starting a game rather than the amount of time played.

[R0ca]

I always like to do what the real managers do and throw them in cup games, i also find dead rubber league games...

Pre season friendlies also can be a good proving ground, you've just got to gauge the timing of when you select your young upstarts you don't always have to have your strongest 11 out at all times

[DKB]

Youth Development – The Guide

Goalkeepers only have 6 training categories and they differ to what attributes are trained compared to the above. So here are the keeper ones;

Strength – Jumping, Natural Fitness, Stamina and Strength

Aerobic – Acceleration, Agility, Balance and Pace

Goalkeeper Shot Stopping – One on Ones, Reflexes, Composure, Concentration and Positioning

Goalkeeper Handling – Aerial Ability, Handling, Kicking and Throwing

Tactics – Command of Area, Communication, Rushing Out, Anticipation and Decisions

Ball Control – First Touch

For me understanding this section is vital as it allows you to decide which way you want to shape a player through training. It’s also worth noting that training doesn’t allow CA gain but it rather distributes his CA into the areas you want. For a player to gain CA he does this through match experience.

@Cleon

I've a really good newgen goalkeeper in my squad - 1½ star CA - 4 star PA (the same as Neuer) - 16 years old atm and will turn 17 in the summer

Ideally I would like to raise his rushing out as I like my keepers to be able to do this (am I wrong thinking that rushing out is that the goalkeeper gets out of his goal and making the goal smaller for the oppositions strikers? kind of what Schmeichel was brilliant at doing), but when I put him on intensive tactical training, it doesn't improve one bit??

Also considering to put his tactical training on intensive for a year to boost his command of area, communication and anticipation at the cost of lowering his handling as 14 is fine for a 16 year old imo, and it wouldn't be a dramatic lowering

Final question, would you intensify his psychical training? not quite sure how important stam, strenght + acc and pace is for a keeper compared to the other stats. As it is now stam and strenght have climbed 3 stats over the last 2 years, and pace has +3 while acc have +2