FM2011 Training Masterclass

[mantralux]

Links will never come...

That's correct, and the reason is both simple and self-explanatory if you read the thread.

When I have more time I will try to expand the original post to cover more areas.

[Luciano Spalletti]

Real Training Masterclass

Take some help here

Its very easy to judge from apart ,mind it

[SFraser]

Two fairly important points to chip in to this discussion:

1: You can never be in absolute control of specific attribute behaviour. Even if we had a slider for every single attribute there is still too much going with players to give the manager scalpel like control. This is particularly obvious with Goalkeepers when their Agility goes up at the same time as their Acceleration and Pace. You might be able to give an additional "focus" to Agility in FM11 but those less desirable attributes will still increase.

2: If you want to see attribute changes that reflect your wishes then you need to design radical schedules. If there is one thing that stands out from all the schedules I have seen over the years on this forum it is that people seem to be afraid of extremes, probably because they don't want to break their players. Completely understandable. But training does not have that kind of immense power to radically alter players.

A good way to think of the sliders is to imagine they represent "time spent on X area". If you want a striker to develop his physique and shooting then medium ball control, tactics etc. and slightly above medium physical and shooting is not going to work. He needs to spend heaps of time on those areas and hardly any time on the other areas. Then you will start to see small but clear changes in his attributes according to your plan.

Compare it to the tactical instructions. If you want one winger to absolutely bomb down the wing at a hundred miles an hour and always look for the final ball then giving him slightly higher mentality and relatively neutral instructions is not going to work.

Extremes produce contrasts, subtle differences produce subtle differences.

If you want to see big results from training, design schedules with big differences. Once you start doing this you will realise that it's actually common sense.

[R0ca]

Two fairly important points to chip in to this discussion

2: If you want to see attribute changes that reflect your wishes then you need to design radical schedules. If there is one thing that stands out from all the schedules I have seen over the years on this forum it is that people seem to be afraid of extremes, probably because they don't want to break their players. Completely understandable. But training does not have that kind of immense power to radically alter players.

A good way to think of the sliders is to imagine they represent "time spent on X area". If you want a striker to develop his physique and shooting then medium ball control, tactics etc. and slightly above medium physical and shooting is not going to work. He needs to spend heaps of time on those areas and hardly any time on the other areas. Then you will start to see small but clear changes in his attributes according to your plan.

This can be not be emphasised. If you want attribute growth in a certain area, put it on the highest notch of intensive, As Sfraser has said sure your going to get growth from attribute within that training category u may not want but this is the way to get the overall area to improve.

for me Sfraser post above this one is ALL you need to know about shaping attribute growth via training

[Coentrao]

Let's say you want to increase a young strikers pace/acceleration for instance, given SFraser's example would you put him on intensive Aerobic training?

Even during the season? Wouldn't this risk more injuries?

[phnompenhandy]

Let's say you want to increase a young strikers pace/acceleration for instance, given SFraser's example would you put him on intensive Aerobic training?

Even during the season? Wouldn't this risk more injuries?

Highest intensive in a fitness category would be bound to cause injury. Better to do individual 'quickness' focused training.

As an aside, EVERY AI manager puts EVERY player on individual 'quickness' training!!!!

[R0ca]

Let's say you want to increase a young strikers pace/acceleration for instance, given SFraser's example would you put him on intensive Aerobic training?

Even during the season? Wouldn't this risk more injuries?

Possibly air on the side of caution and go with high aerobic training. Personally what i'd do is start out on intensive and monitor it from there. If im noticing a lot of injuries then i'd decrease the slider accordingly.

It's unlikely in my case however i try to boost physicals as early as possible.

[Coentrao]

Thank you both.

I normally just use generic position schedules but i'm going to start using some individual schedules at least on the most promising youngsters to shape them the way i want..

[R0ca]

Thank you both.

I normally just use generic position schedules but i'm going to start using some individual schedules at least on the most promising youngsters to shape them the way i want..

Anytime, Anything I've learnt whilst playing this game i'm more than happy to share simply because a huge amount of my own knowledge has come from posters who posted on these boards.

Personally for the first time ever i'm starting to enjoy constructing training schedules finding the balance between attribute growth and decline is very interesting.

[Jenko_EFC]

As an aside, EVERY AI manager puts EVERY player on individual 'quickness' training!!!!

Although I don't play FM11, that's really interesting. Any idea why it does this?

[Jad123]

Although I don't play FM11, that's really interesting. Any idea why it does this?

Ello ello Sean.

I don't think it does. From reading the other thread about this, I would say it makes more sense that it is the default setting to show. I doubt SI would allow users a way to see into the AI manager behaviour.

[442 is dead]

Great Thread Mantralux, but to go back to the issue of Natural Fitness, I agree with you that it changes or at least it should change. Think of it this way, take 3 players, a 15 year-old, a 25 year-old, and a 35 year-old, for example.

The 15 year-old is still developing physically so his natural fitness could increase.

The 25 year-old is at his physical peak so maybe there won't be any major change there unless he suffers a major injury.

The 35 year-old his physical stats are on the way down.

I know these are gross generalisations but surely there is some truth in there, or at least that's how I would view it.

[SFraser]

Great Thread Mantralux, but to go back to the issue of Natural Fitness, I agree with you that it changes or at least it should change. Think of it this way, take 3 players, a 15 year-old, a 25 year-old, and a 35 year-old, for example.

The 15 year-old is still developing physically so his natural fitness could increase.

The 25 year-old is at his physical peak so maybe there won't be any major change there unless he suffers a major injury.

The 35 year-old his physical stats are on the way down.

I know these are gross generalisations but surely there is some truth in there, or at least that's how I would view it.

That's a fair theory but in all my time playing FM I have seen Natural Fitness change twice.

Once when my C.Ronaldo recovered from a long term injury and then was immediately injured with another long term injury.

Once when someone on these forums made a post showing a change in Natural Fitness to prove me wrong that Natural Fitness doesn't change via training.

That's the only two times I have seen it change. Ever.

It might be different for FM11, I am not playing that yet. But it seems that those that are playing FM11 are still asking the same questions and still there is little that could be called "actual proof" to the contrary.

Indeed Mantralux, great thread by the way, seems to be repeating the same arguements in favour of NF changes that I have seen many times in many training threads. It's in the category ergo it must change.

As far as I am concerned, with regard to NF, there is nothing new here. If someone wishes to prove me wrong then by all means do so. A few screenies goes a long, long way.

Rather hard to argue with a couple of players showing NF changes in a single season. Does anyone have proof that this happens?

[R0ca]

Don't wish to prove you wrong however:-

No i can't explain and i haven't seen it happen very often.

[SFraser]

Well looks like it might have changed for FM11.

It wasn't the case for the previous FM's and my slightly physical schedules for FM10 are testament to that.

Still not as bad an error as forgetting to add Concentration and Composure to the training categories.

[R0ca]

Haha agreed, it's a strange category though. It doesn't increase often rather like jumping and flair. Just wanted to show you the SS thats all. Only player in my entire squad to improve natural fitness this season though.

[Rio_V]

This is an outstanding thread. Just been checking it out and using to build some training for my side. There is a wealth of info here.

KUTGW Mantralux

[Geraghty]

I have been following this thread for a while now, and have applied some of the principles to my own schedules.

however, I fear that whilst theoretically the thread is correct, there is a randomness in the game that does not allow the success of training to be an absolute.

I would be interested to hear form others in terms of the applicaiton of the principles.

BTW, this is not a criticism of the thread (or the game for that matter). the thread is excellent and the game, like life, cannot be too formulaic.

Lee

[Giantplaything]

First of all, Great thread. Its been a good read and I'm glad to see we don't all play FM the same way.

I must admit that I haven't spent much time with this years training as I have in the past. Much more of my time has gone into tactics and generating success that way but this thread has definitely given me food for thought.

I've never had a pre-season schedule and will definitely give that a go.

Mantra, about the part where you mentioned creating the different schedules for each position as well as a general "team ethos". Would it not be more practical to merge the 2 ideas together? Getting the progress graph to the shape you desire then tweaking the sliders to reflect your teams strengths/playing style. That way you can shape the players and hone their skill whilst also molding them to fit the team.

The thought had occurred that this might be a difficult undertaking where there is a specific training schedule for each position so I thought about simplifying it a little; to create for the defensive, creative and attacking elements of the team.

Maybe its the LLM in me being used to poor facilities and part-time players but I've hardly ever seen the benefits of aiming schedules at each position.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

As an aside, EVERY AI manager puts EVERY player on individual 'quickness' training!!!!

How do you know this?

[7Bestie7]

Training is something I focus on immensely during pre-season twice a year when I'm playing. I have multiple training schedules for each position, each one having slight modifications depending upon the attributes associated with that position. Thus the wide Inside Forward is training differently to my more "natural" wingers who have far more focus on the athletic aspects of wing play. I can have seven different variations of every position in the game plus an additional one for part-timers and I use a series of search criteria with the "include own players" box ticked so that I can find out who fits into which grouping. Then I go through and add each player who shows up in my results to their individual training schedules and add the rest into a more standard schedule until they show signs of improvement (with each one having their own training focus based upon their weakest aspect).

I do this twice a season. Once is during pre-season after I've signed my main targets (I never go into August still looking for a new player) and the other is in January after around 6 months of training. This second run-through is imperative for me as it allows me to keep an eye on my youth development and when I am re-training players into different positions. Some examples of this are Ben Amos, Wayne Rooney and Darren Fletcher.

Ben Amos - initially he doesn't appear in any of my short-list searches, needing a bit of work here and there in certain areas plus mentoring to help him grow. After playing in a few cup games, being the first choice Reserve goalkeeper and being tutored by van der Sar, Amos ends up going from my "developmental" group training to fighting it out as back-up to van der Sar with the other 'keepers attribute wise.

Rooney + Fletcher - In the beginning of a new game, Rooney's best position attribute wise (according to my personal preferences) is the Trequartista role, Fletcher's is an standard Ball Winning midfielder. In retraining them both to a deeper position, it allows me to include them in new positional searches at the end of the six months. In January I change Rooney's training to be one of either an Inside Forward or Advanced Playmaker depending upon my preferred style of play at the time and change Fletcher's from Ball Winner to Defensive Midfielder (the focus is a subtle difference). By the time the end of the season has arrived and both players have played the majority of games for me, Fletcher has gone from a moderate BW to the best DM in the world while Rooney (with only a little reshaping to be fair) is a good TQ turned into one of the best Inside Forwards in the game. Again, both attribute wise rather than in performances (that's another thread entirely).

It's long-winded and can take time twice a season but I prefer doing all of this extra work to make sure my players are growing in the aspects that I want. Both Valencia and Nani show up in my list as being the same "class" of wingers so I put them both in the same training schedule. However once adjusted, Valencia ends up with hardly any physical training with Intensive focus on a number of the more technical aspects whereas Nani's is more well-rounded a schedule with a focus on the tactical side of the game (Especially his damn decision making).

[el_magico89]

Just having a question concerning coaches.

What would you guys personally prefer? A coach, who has 14 for attacking attributes, but has some decent mental attributes like man management, disciplin and motiviation and has only 3.5*, or someone, who has 17-20 for attacking attributes, but has awful mental stats? The one with 17-20 does have 4*, does it tell me, that I am going to have much more success with him, or is the first one the better choice?

[Gee_Simpson]

I personally would choose the 3.5* coach over the 4* coach as mental attributes are crucial imo.

[Jenko_EFC]

The "stars" control how quickly players increase in that particular category as far as I am aware. 0.5 stars isn't much of a loss for someone who will benefit behind the scenes so I'd choose the 3.5 star one personally.

[el_magico89]

I started a new save with Everton and they are allowed to have 11 coaches in the team. I have fired all available coaches and looking for new ones. As I read, that I should seperate youth players and 1st team players in training, I though about getting 5 coaches for the 1st team, who would cover the areas attacking+shooting, defence, ball control, tactics, fitness. but since I can only afford 5 1st team coaches, would it be bad, when one coach trains two areas and he stars decreas from 4 to 3?

[pigfacemonkeyman]

I started a new save with Everton and they are allowed to have 11 coaches in the team. I have fired all available coaches and looking for new ones. As I read, that I should seperate youth players and 1st team players in training, I though about getting 5 coaches for the 1st team, who would cover the areas attacking+shooting, defence, ball control, tactics, fitness. but since I can only afford 5 1st team coaches, would it be bad, when one coach trains two areas and he stars decreas from 4 to 3?

With only 11 coaches allowed I would get one Coach for each training category (look for them to have high 'Working with Youngsters' attribute), an all round Youth Coach with the best 'Working with Youngsters', Mental attributes and Man Management skills. I would get one all round 1st Team coach with high Mentals and Man Management. I'm playing FM10 so not totally sure but I think that leaves one available spot, I would start to build my youth training setup and employ a Youth Coach with high fitness training and stick him on both fitness categories.

I have always avoided hiring 1st team coaches for individual categories because they can't train youths as well.

[el_magico89]

when I get an allround 1st team coach, shall he train every category, or the best one?

[pigfacemonkeyman]

I would use him for all, he is there for his motivation skills, his man management and determination, basically a first team version of a general Youth Coach.

[el_magico89]

can the ass manager do this aswell? and it isnt really bad, when the stars are low, right?

Ive started another save with atletico madrid, and they are allowed to have 17 coaches in the staff, so I can get 1st team coaches and youth for every category.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

I think it's essential for your assman to cover all training in both 1st and Youth Teams, to get the best feedback and lighten the training load. The low star ratings across many training categories don't really matter for Assmen and 1st Team/Youth Team General coaches. In lower level teams you have no choice, at a higher level the main training of each category is done by the individually assigned coaches and these need to have the most stars you can get.

It's my personal choice remember, but I still would avoid using 1st Team Coaches (in name only, you understand) for individual categories as I would want those coaches to train my youths as well. A Coach is a first team coach, he trains the first team!

[lam]

Interesting.

Not that I am boubting. But can I ask how you know this?

Regards

LAM

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Interesting.

Not that I am boubting. But can I ask how you know this?

Regards

LAM

You most certainly may, and in a more polite way than I usually ask myself.

Feel free to doubt or ignore, this is my approach and isn't based on official information. Over time, using trial and error, tweaking and learning, I ended up getting great results from my development setup which includes the above.

I stop tweaking when I get the results I am looking for, in any part of the game. There are probably many different ways to achieve the results I get, but I arrived at this one.

If there is anything particular you would like me to explain, ask away.

Cheers

xxx

[rich_barnes]

If my training catagorys all have 5 stars but my coaches dont have high ratings in man management will this ave an effect? I thought man management was just the ability to handle player happiness and contracts? thats what it says in game anyway but the opening post says it works like the youth training attribute only for the seniors. Can anyone confirm if this is true or false.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

If my training catagorys all have 5 stars but my coaches dont have high ratings in man management will this ave an effect? I thought man management was just the ability to handle player happiness and contracts? thats what it says in game anyway but the opening post says it works like the youth training attribute only for the seniors. Can anyone confirm if this is true or false.

What the OP states might well be right, but when I'm faced with a claim that information comes from an official source, especially when that info is different to that provided ingame, I will only take it as fact when I see the official info myself. Is there really a selective elite out there who are provided with secret information by SI employees?! If there is, then why?

Here's hoping someone from SI confirms what you want to know.

Good luck.

Cynic in human skin.

xxx

[Krister]

I've only just started setting my own training schedules, despite having played the game for several years. I've played around with it a couple of times in the past but never really got my head around it or had the patience to try. Now, after reading countless "tutorials", "hints & tips", "guides" etc, all having different opinions and claims, I really wish I hadn't even started.

When comparing guides, there are so many contradictions stated as "fact" or "tried and tested", that I don't know where to even start. Right now, I have six tabs of guides open in Firefox, each one is telling me to do different things. I know one option is to go along with the tips that feel right, but I don't want to go 6-12 months into my game and realise that all my potential world class players have lost a year of development, because i didn't put enough clicks in the right training sliders. Of cours,e there is a cartain logic to to the training system, but it's frustrating not knowing how many clicks is too much. I can't help but feel that most of the things discussed in posts like these should be covered in the manual or at least acknowledged by someone who actually does know (ie. SI Games). The game is almost a year old now and no one seems to know what the "training levels" bars actually mean or what "man management" really does.

Lot's of features implemented so far focus on realism (actual discussions with players, agents etc) and while I haven't done any real management myself, I find it far fetched that a manager would communicate training needs to coaches via an obscure slider system which he has never been taught to use and which won't even allow for leaving out some unnecessary skills.

I appreciate that a lot of people find it very rewarding when they manage to figure out a new trick or way of getting just that bit more out of a tactic (I do), but figuring out the basics of the game shoudn't really be part of it.

I'm very grateful to everyone who has written a guide (especially Mantralux, mccollio09 and Fantastic) and I don't seem to have much choice than to just go for one and hope for the best. I just feel that as customers, some basic features of the game should be clarified.

[Luciano Spalletti]

Maybe you should consider some other way of training .Less individual and more concentrated on tactics .You have several players who are talented but their nature is not so technical like messi or giggs .So you need to focus on other aspects of the game .For example when I increase the workload in defence and tactics the team appears to be more concentrated ,more determined and generally more compact .The pitch is the perfect mirror on how well your schedules work .Also you need to be very carefull with the calendar .You need to know when to iincrease and when to decrease the level of fitness training during the season .Also you need to keep notes about the stimulous that you give to the footballers in the specific

categories .(tactics ,ball control,set pieces and so on)Take care about your team's progress and dont focus just on the individuals .Football is a collective sport and when you ignore

the nature of football you can be in very wild adventure .Simply be informed ,keep some track and during the season think very carefully on when you will make some adjustments .

I can tell you several advices but simply there are several coaching philosophies .I will write down some indications considering that every coach thinks different .

Months Target

June-July 1st/2nd stage of pre season

August-September 3rd stage of pre season ,beggining of team blending .

October The team should start to perform according to its real standards

November The team should play close to full potential ,however some injuries will occur for sure .The team should be at least 20 %better from October

December The team must perform even better and should reach the pick of performance in the closing of 1st half of the season .Rotation should be used .

January Some leagues dont have winter break ,so you need to be concentrated even more in tactics .Your team should be kind of "loaded" because of winter

February The majority of the top teams have a decrease on their forms from middle of january till middle of february .Dont worry so much ,but work even harder .

March The team is going to the last 1/3 of the season .Your hard work will start to be rewarded .Otherwise...The machine need to recover the soonest .

April The hottest month of the season .The most decisive here is the character of your team .Motivated your players the most that you can and try to drive their

egoism in the sky .Try to convert the teams performace into a fierce and wild play in the pitch .Be benefited from your tactical ideas and cohesion

May Since third week of april everything becomes "win or die " .This is the so called bull's eye triumph .Every win counts double .No experiments ,no risks .

Your only aim should be result ,maximum concentration on tactics and iron willed defence .The men will be distinguished from the kids ....

For every excuse there is one defeat .Its allowed to fall down ,its obligatory to raise up .Football is a beautiful game .But nothing is more beautiful from the victory ...

[Veg]

That's not quite correct.

Aerial Ability is the ability of the goalie to make saves from shots aimed at the top half of the goal.

A keeper with 20 jumping and 20 aerial ability is going to be able to make Hollywood saves as long as his reflexes are good enough for him to react in time.

Neither are you, Aerial Ability is the Goalkeepers ability to judge high balls, wich mean how well he judges crosses, shots, long throw ins that are up in the air...

[Luciano Spalletti]

Aerial ability is very high in tall goalkeepers .Its hard to see some goalkeeper with height less than 1.91 high rank in aerial ability .Bring on your mind goalkeepers who have high

attribute in aerial abilities

[loxz]

Where can i dow,any version?

[MBDTF]

I've only just started setting my own training schedules, despite having played the game for several years. I've played around with it a couple of times in the past but never really got my head around it or had the patience to try. Now, after reading countless "tutorials", "hints & tips", "guides" etc, all having different opinions and claims, I really wish I hadn't even started.

When comparing guides, there are so many contradictions stated as "fact" or "tried and tested", that I don't know where to even start. Right now, I have six tabs of guides open in Firefox, each one is telling me to do different things. I know one option is to go along with the tips that feel right, but I don't want to go 6-12 months into my game and realise that all my potential world class players have lost a year of development, because i didn't put enough clicks in the right training sliders. Of cours,e there is a cartain logic to to the training system, but it's frustrating not knowing how many clicks is too much. I can't help but feel that most of the things discussed in posts like these should be covered in the manual or at least acknowledged by someone who actually does know (ie. SI Games). The game is almost a year old now and no one seems to know what the "training levels" bars actually mean or what "man management" really does.

Lot's of features implemented so far focus on realism (actual discussions with players, agents etc) and while I haven't done any real management myself, I find it far fetched that a manager would communicate training needs to coaches via an obscure slider system which he has never been taught to use and which won't even allow for leaving out some unnecessary skills.

I appreciate that a lot of people find it very rewarding when they manage to figure out a new trick or way of getting just that bit more out of a tactic (I do), but figuring out the basics of the game shoudn't really be part of it.

I'm very grateful to everyone who has written a guide (especially Mantralux, mccollio09 and Fantastic) and I don't seem to have much choice than to just go for one and hope for the best. I just feel that as customers, some basic features of the game should be clarified.

You are correct in what you say.

A lot of the guides written on here just state the obvious really, which can be stressing to not as experienced players such as ourselves. Nobody in the community really seems to know how training really works, and those who do have a hard time expressing it to others.

[mantralux]

An updated version of this article (called FM2012 Training And Match Prep Masterclass) will be posted here on the SI boards in a couple of days, and it will have some updated information that is specific for FM2012.

[Cleon]

An updated version of this article (called FM2012 Training And Match Prep Masterclass) will be posted here on the SI boards in a couple of days, and it will have some updated information that is specific for FM2012.

How have you updated it? I only ask because nothings changed for FM12

[mantralux]

How have you updated it? I only ask because nothings changed for FM12

Polished the previous version (some descriptions are much better now) + added a section on the training graph bars, and altered some sections so they describe the new match prep location better.

Also, some attributes have moved into other training categories for FM2012, so it's not exactly as FM2011 (for example - Jumping is now trained in the Strength category, as opposed to Aerobics in FM2011).

[Cleon]

Polished the previous version (some descriptions are much better now) + added a section on the training graph bars, and altered some sections so they describe the new match prep location better.

Also, some attributes have moved into other training categories for FM2012, so it's not exactly as FM2011 (for example - Jumping is now trained in the Strength category, as opposed to Aerobics in FM2011).

I look forward to reading it

[Graham206]

Me too: I found that and your "Using Reminders" page invaluable in FM11

[mantralux]

The new FM2012 version of this article is now available here: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/279009-FM2012-Training-And-Match-Prep-Masterclass

=)

EDIT: This thread should become unstickied, as the other thread is much more up-to-date.