Use the Preset Tactics! (Seriously)

[bababooey]

I am the type of person who has (for the most part) ignored the preset tactics that are available in the game. Not just in this year's edition, but in previous years too...  big mistake!

Obviously, anyone can learn how the game works and you dont HAVE to use presets. But the things you find out about the game from using those preset tactics matters quite a bit.

I don't mean just change over to a preset style. I mean, try out a preset AND one of the 3 suggested formations that go with that preset.  This matters, too! Because you'll find that particular shapes are well suited to certain styles of play. Plus, in doing so, you'll see the roles and duties that the game is recommending for that shape + style. Honestly, they're just as important, if not more important, than team instructions.

I think it's super helpful to think of it like this:

- How do I want to play?  (alternatively, you could ask, "what do I like to see on the pitch?")

- How good is my team?

- What are the expectations for my team?

- Does the style of play I want to use suit the players at the club? (ex, don't use a 4-4-2 if you have 1 winger, don't use a 3 at the back system if you only have 2 center backs, etc.)

Then, after you answer those questions, make the choice on the preset + formation.

If you're still stuck, the assistant manager will recommend which style is best for the team.

Adjusting Presets

The great thing about the presets is that they're always there. They're not going anywhere. You're not going to like, save over them or delete them. So you can screw around with different ideas, and if they don't work, go back to the preset and start over.

The only gripe I have currently, is that none of the presets use a "mid block" by default. That is kinda strange, because I would think it would be suitable for wing play, or even the fluid counter attack. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the development of the game could answer that one.

But like I was saying before, just fiddle with it, because the presets ABSOLUTELY do work.  If you're stuck or out of ideas, use the presets! If your team is struggling, use the presets (and also look at what else is going on off the pitch). 

If you're a tactical mastermind, then of course, you can just ignore this entirely.  I'd like to think I have a decent handle on tactics, but the presets are showing me that I don't know as much as I think I do...

[CJ_Randell]

If anyone is stuck deciding which one to go with, just use 4231 Gegenpress preset. It's still OP. 

[TheJanitor]

16 hours ago, CJ_Randell said:

If anyone is stuck deciding which one to go with, just use 4231 Gegenpress preset. It's still OP. 

Yes and no. I wanted to get a save going so I picked it thinking the same, but results were mediocre. Overall it's a good go-to tactic, but not bullet-proof.

I think the presets are great by the way. Not just the Gegenpress, but the Vertical Tiki Taka 433 and I am also using the Tiki Taka instructions for many tactics with success. Right now I am going for something a bit different using the Fluid Counter-Attack 532. It's nice to streamline a save until you build the team you want to play your own style.

Edited January 25, 2023 by TheJanitor

[Gruf]

I agree, my 2022 tactic was not working in 23 shipping goals left and right, used a vertical tikatac preset next season with a little bit of tinkering, cautious low block, and won the League . There is definitely some changes under the hood  in 23 that benefits using a preset as a base  to start from.

There are other ways of winning instead of defaulting to a OP high press, embrace the Burnley way  

Edited January 25, 2023 by Gruf

[CJ_Randell]

1 hour ago, Gruf said:

I agree, my 2022 tactic was not working in 23 shipping goals left and right, used a vertical tikatac preset next season with a little bit of tinkering, cautious low block, and won the League . There is definitely some changes under the hood  in 23 that benefits using a preset as a base  to start from.

There are other ways of winning instead of defaulting to a OP high press, embrace the Burnley way  

I've been testing the default 433 Vertical Tiki Taka but changing a couple of the roles and it's worked great. Managed to get 104 points with Norwich first season. Absolutely dominant. Only conceded 16 goals in 46 games. 

[coach vahid]

Il y a 1 heure, CJ_Randell a dit :

I've been testing the default 433 Vertical Tiki Taka but changing a couple of the roles and it's worked great. Managed to get 104 points with Norwich first season. Absolutely dominant. Only conceded 16 goals in 46 games. 

You change roles because your players or the preset roles are not what you like.

It scares me to touch the preset roles. In my mind,if it like this,it's for a reason.

[CJ_Randell]

37 minutes ago, coach vahid said:

You change roles because your players or the preset roles are not what you like.

It scares me to touch the preset roles. In my mind,if it like this,it's for a reason.

I didn't change too much. 

The Regista into a DLP-De because I feel the Regista requires an elite level footballer. 

The PF-At to a DLF-At as the team are already instructed to press high so I didn't feel a PF chasing everything down was necessary. 

The WB on the right to a FB-Su, just to offer a little bit more defensive stability. 

[Bitner]

Presets needs tweaking.

Tweaking, not adding 12 TI and PI to every player.

Cheers,
Bitner 

[bababooey]

4 hours ago, CJ_Randell said:

I've been testing the default 433 Vertical Tiki Taka but changing a couple of the roles and it's worked great. Managed to get 104 points with Norwich first season. Absolutely dominant. Only conceded 16 goals in 46 games. 

Brilliant results!

[Skywalk3r83]

4 hours ago, CJ_Randell said:

I didn't change too much. 

The Regista into a DLP-De because I feel the Regista requires an elite level footballer. 

The PF-At to a DLF-At as the team are already instructed to press high so I didn't feel a PF chasing everything down was necessary. 

The WB on the right to a FB-Su, just to offer a little bit more defensive stability. 

I might try this with Napoli🤔😄

[CJ_Randell]

43 minutes ago, Skywalk3r83 said:

I might try this with Napoli🤔😄

Sarri's Napoli were my inspiration for trying this. 😊

[kingjericho]

Presets were made in FM21(?) and haven't been touched since. I believe they were made by SI but not tested, that's why some of them don't work very well but they all have an inherent logic.

They could use some tweaking - for instance the Wingplay 442 has a low block for no apparent reason - but there's no doubt they are a great starting point.

Also, none of them use new roles that have been added in later versions, such as wide centre-back, inverted wing-back, wide target man, etc.

[Tyburn]

For the first time ever I have used a preset as a starting point. I normally create custom tactics but most of my ideas so far in FM23 have fallen a bit short.

Looking at role combinations from the presets has been very useful in creating new ideas.

[bababooey]

The preset "fluid counter attack" with the suggested 4-2-3-1 DM AM Wide formation is working wonders for me in tough matches with Atlético Madrid.

Because of this tactic, with almost zero tweaking, we've eliminated PSG, and we're halfway done eliminating Liverpool from the UCL. It's just insane how good presets are if you use them properly.

Here's what this looks like for me:

Normally, I would NEVER have thought to select two defend duties in defensive midfield on a cautious mentality with a low block. Why? Because I would have said, it's WAY too defensive, and we'll get penned into our own third.

Not true at all. The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding in this case, is smashing the crap out of PSG and Liverpool.

The only change I made to this was changing the AMR from Winger-S to Inverted Winger-S, then I changed the right sided DM from BWM-D to DM-D   That's it!

Edited January 25, 2023 by bababooey

[Hovis Dexter]

1 hour ago, bababooey said:

… smashing the crap out of PSG and Liverpool …

Must be good then  

[warlock]

4 hours ago, kingjericho said:

Presets were made in FM21(?) and haven't been touched since... none of them use new roles that have been added in later versions, such as wide centre-back

Simply not true. Most of them use FM23's changes to defensive lines (low block, mid block, etc)  and at least one preset uses a wide centreback, so there have been changes this year.

Edited January 25, 2023 by warlock

[Gruf]

Watching a Rashidi Vid on Bust the net, the positioning of all your players depending on where you set your defensive line has changed a bit as well, all that factors into how presets play, but sure there are other differences this season, from last, considering how my last years tactic worked this year.

I do change roles from the presets to suit my players but as an LLM I try not to tack on tons of personal instructions. I keep it simple for them. Works for me. FA Trophy final to play today

Part of me wonders if vertical tikatak is OP this year, cause I ain't any great shakes

Edited January 26, 2023 by Gruf

[Tyburn]

14 hours ago, bababooey said:

The preset "fluid counter attack" with the suggested 4-2-3-1 DM AM Wide formation is working wonders for me in tough matches with Atlético Madrid.

Because of this tactic, with almost zero tweaking, we've eliminated PSG, and we're halfway done eliminating Liverpool from the UCL. It's just insane how good presets are if you use them properly.

Here's what this looks like for me:

Normally, I would NEVER have thought to select two defend duties in defensive midfield on a cautious mentality with a low block. Why? Because I would have said, it's WAY too defensive, and we'll get penned into our own third.

Not true at all. The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding in this case, is smashing the crap out of PSG and Liverpool.

The only change I made to this was changing the AMR from Winger-S to Inverted Winger-S, then I changed the right sided DM from BWM-D to DM-D   That's it!

Out of curiosity I have been playing around with this system this morning and I have to say it is really good. Considering my squad have never seen it before I am very encouraged. What is most surprising is the amount of shots and chances created. I like what I’ve seen so much that I am now training it with my squad on my main network save. I’ve been playing a 433 all save but thankfully have the midfield players to easily adapt to the 4231. I’m all up for simplicity and adaptation. This system ticks all the boxes. Will still use my attacking 433 as primary but to have this in the locker will hopefully give us a few more options.

Thanks for posting it.

[bababooey]

4 hours ago, Tyburn said:

Out of curiosity I have been playing around with this system this morning and I have to say it is really good. Considering my squad have never seen it before I am very encouraged. What is most surprising is the amount of shots and chances created. I like what I’ve seen so much that I am now training it with my squad on my main network save. I’ve been playing a 433 all save but thankfully have the midfield players to easily adapt to the 4231. I’m all up for simplicity and adaptation. This system ticks all the boxes. Will still use my attacking 433 as primary but to have this in the locker will hopefully give us a few more options.

Thanks for posting it.

You're welcome! I'm in the Champions League final against Manchester United (my fav team in real life)... 

To get there we knocked out PSG, Liverpool and Inter Milan.  I used that preset 4-2-3-1 DM AM Wide for all of the post-group matches. I'll definitely be using it in the final, too.

[bababooey]

17 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

Must be good then  

It's not perfect, in the sense that you could just roll it out and never pay attention. I had to manage in game by making subs, adjusting an instruction or two or three, etc. But the basic plan is ROCK SOLID.

[kingjericho]

17 hours ago, warlock said:

Simply not true. Most of them use FM23's changes to defensive lines (low block, mid block, etc)  and at least one preset uses a wide centreback, so there have been changes this year.

Apologies I went and checked the game after I posted and there are in fact some changes this year. Thanks for the correction. I'd like to see more styles added in future releases. For example Simeone's combative 442 that won the league in 13/14, Guardiola's Bayern/City which is no longer the Barcelona tiki taka, and others.

[Skywalk3r83]

21 hours ago, bababooey said:

The preset "fluid counter attack" with the suggested 4-2-3-1 DM AM Wide formation is working wonders for me in tough matches with Atlético Madrid.

Because of this tactic, with almost zero tweaking, we've eliminated PSG, and we're halfway done eliminating Liverpool from the UCL. It's just insane how good presets are if you use them properly.

Here's what this looks like for me:

Normally, I would NEVER have thought to select two defend duties in defensive midfield on a cautious mentality with a low block. Why? Because I would have said, it's WAY too defensive, and we'll get penned into our own third.

Not true at all. The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding in this case, is smashing the crap out of PSG and Liverpool.

The only change I made to this was changing the AMR from Winger-S to Inverted Winger-S, then I changed the right sided DM from BWM-D to DM-D   That's it!

Tried this in my first away game against Lazio Roma and I'm asking myself why i never used this preset before! Will use this for away games, home games i'll use the preset 4231 gegenpress

 

Edit: I did use two DM's and an IW on the right as well. Same changes.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Skywalk3r83

[bababooey]

4 hours ago, bababooey said:

You're welcome! I'm in the Champions League final against Manchester United (my fav team in real life)... 

To get there we knocked out PSG, Liverpool and Inter Milan.  I used that preset 4-2-3-1 DM AM Wide for all of the post-group matches. I'll definitely be using it in the final, too.

Annnnnnnnnnd guess what?  We lost.  The f****** referee decided to send off one of my players early, then, man united hurt one of my other players, AND then Man Utd got their only goal from a penalty that was complete garbage.

I hate this game sometimes, I really, really do. 18 fouls to 11.  2 yellow cards to 1.  Both given to the same player.  Unbelievable bag job.  I might go into the editor and change that Referee's name to "mother******"

[Skywalk3r83]

Home game against Liverpool, 4231 preset Gegenpress...:

[CBP87]

10 hours ago, Skywalk3r83 said:

Home game against Liverpool, 4231 preset Gegenpress...:

Did you make any changes to the tactic? Are you ok to share it with us?  that's a very impressive result, I've been using the 4231 preset gegenpress with Bayern, but it seems to be struggling with them and the little tweaks don't seem to be helping. 

Do people change the set pieces when using the presets?

Edited January 27, 2023 by CBP87

[Tyburn]

15 minutes ago, CBP87 said:

Did you make any changes to the tactic? Are you ok to share it with us?  that's a very impressive result, I've been using the 4231 preset gegenpress with Bayern, but it seems to be struggling with them and the little tweaks don't seem to be helping. 

Do people change the set pieces when using the presets?

I change the set pieces. Yes.

[CBP87]

20 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

I change the set pieces. Yes.

Are you using the 4231 gegenpress preset?

[Tyburn]

10 minutes ago, CBP87 said:

Are you using the 4231 gegenpress preset?

No. The 4231 fluid counter. 

[CBP87]

5 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

No. The 4231 fluid counter. 

I tried that too, but it wasn't working for me unfortunately which is frustrating because it looks very impressive

[Skywalk3r83]

7 hours ago, CBP87 said:

Did you make any changes to the tactic? Are you ok to share it with us?  that's a very impressive result, I've been using the 4231 preset gegenpress with Bayern, but it seems to be struggling with them and the little tweaks don't seem to be helping. 

Do people change the set pieces when using the presets?

Line up:

SKs, WBs, CDd, CDd, WBa, BBMs, DLPd, IWa, AMs, IWs, AF

Set pieces only corners, aim at near post. 

[CBP87]

49 minutes ago, Skywalk3r83 said:

Line up:

SKs, WBs, CDd, CDd, WBa, BBMs, DLPd, IWa, AMs, IWs, AF

Set pieces only corners, aim at near post. 

Is this correct? So in terms of set pieces, you just change the player instructions to near post? you don't change anything positional?

Thanks

[Skywalk3r83]

43 minutes ago, CBP87 said:

Is this correct? So in terms of set pieces, you just change the player instructions to near post? you don't change anything positional?

Thanks

Yes and yes. 

[kingjericho]

17 hours ago, CBP87 said:

Is this correct? So in terms of set pieces, you just change the player instructions to near post? you don't change anything positional?

Thanks

For corners: https://youtu.be/LYHqftDxDpE

 

[CBP87]

1 hour ago, kingjericho said:

For corners: https://youtu.be/LYHqftDxDpE

 

Get yourself a big guy with 16,17 or 18 jumping and stick them in an area and aim for them  Brilliant

[kingjericho]

1 hour ago, CBP87 said:

Get yourself a big guy with 16,17 or 18 jumping and stick them in an area and aim for them  Brilliant

Yep, I signed Travis Akomeah from Chelsea and he scored 8 goals from corners. Plus he had the best average rating in the league because his headers won % is almost 100% every match.

[CBP87]

2 hours ago, kingjericho said:

Yep, I signed Travis Akomeah from Chelsea and he scored 8 goals from corners. Plus he had the best average rating in the league because his headers won % is almost 100% every match.

Lovely, Thanks mate, I shall take a look although I don't think he will move De Ligt or Upamecano. I think Ahmedhodzic will score plenty in that setup

[Skywalk3r83]

Tweeted about my new save with Arsenal, using only preset tactics. We had a good start👌🏻

[danej]

On 25/01/2023 at 12:20, CJ_Randell said:

I've been testing the default 433 Vertical Tiki Taka but changing a couple of the roles and it's worked great. Managed to get 104 points with Norwich first season. Absolutely dominant. Only conceded 16 goals in 46 games. 

I have never seen Norwich get below 95 points in season 1 in the Championship. Managed by AI that is.

[sgevolker]

Hi Guys,

I'm playing with Athletic Bilbao in LaLiga. I'm now in the fourth season Real and Barca are still outstanding. Athletic is on place 6 in the season preview. 

Usually I copy something which I saw and it works more or less. But I never got the feeling that I create something by myself. With the templates I learn how I can use the roles for different stiles and this is for me a huge progress.

After reading this tread I started from the scratch and used the suggested tactical style 4-3-3 Vertical Tiki Taka. I have some strong wingers in my team, so this formation should suit very well.

I made only two adaptions, one is low crosses, because I do not have tall strikers and the second one was to change the Deep Lying Forward to an Advanced Forward. This i did to give my central midfielders more space to run into. What should i say? It works phenomenal. After 16 games I'm at place two with only 9 goals against me. I scored 30. Also in the Champions League it worked very well. 

Take care

Volker

[Robson 07]

On 24/01/2023 at 15:02, CJ_Randell said:

If anyone is stuck deciding which one to go with, just use 4231 Gegenpress preset. It's still OP. 

 

On 25/01/2023 at 14:22, Bitner said:

Presets needs tweaking.

Tweaking, not adding 12 TI and PI to every player.

Cheers,
Bitner 

Both kinda correct.  The Gegenpress has probably always needed the least tweaking, it was practically ready straight out of the box.  This may have made it much more easier to adopt partly leading to cries of it being overpowered.  The other presets can work too but need varying degrees of customisation and 1 or 2 like 'Catenaccio', an awful lot because if left alone it is disastrous.

Have no idea why SI released them as such a mixed bag, being fit for purpose in some cases and not at all in others.  Maybe it is so that they didn't leave too many tactical breadcrumbs all at once.

[Gee_Simpson]

As someone who isn't great at tactics, the presets make the most sense for me. Nice to to see a new thread dedicated to them 👍🏻

[Skywalk3r83]

20 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

As someone who isn't great at tactics, the presets make the most sense for me. Nice to to see a new thread dedicated to them 👍🏻

Which one do you use the most? For me it's gegenpress but I slightly alter some team instructions. 

[Gee_Simpson]

30 minutes ago, Skywalk3r83 said:

Which one do you use the most? For me it's gegenpress but I slightly alter some team instructions. 

I haven't actually had much experience using them, but I see them recommended elsewhere by people who know much more about the game than me, so I know they are a very good starting point. 

I'm about to start a new save using my own tactic which is a 4-2-3-1 but it's almost the same as the gegenpress preset in terms of TI's and the same mentality. I aim for this type of football because it's what I like to see irl, one of my favourite teams to watch was Klopp's Dortmund. I will use it for most games but will also be loading up the fluid counter 4-2-3-1 preset with slight tweaks to roles for tough away games where I'm the clear underdog. Someone described it as a nice combination of fast counters and quick probing passing, which kind of sounds like a low block gegenpress variant so I reckon I will enjoy using it. Good to see people in here using it also.

For future use, I would also consider the vertical tiki taka preset because it's also a style I like. Actually my current tactic may end up as a mix between gegenpress and vertical tiki taka if I add the additional TI I'm considering adding.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Gee_Simpson

[danej]

On 27/01/2023 at 09:27, CBP87 said:

Did you make any changes to the tactic? Are you ok to share it with us?  that's a very impressive result, I've been using the 4231 preset gegenpress with Bayern, but it seems to be struggling with them and the little tweaks don't seem to be helping. 

Do people change the set pieces when using the presets?

Unlike earlier versions of FM, to me it seems that on FM23, 4-3-3 DM wide is the best preset Gegenpress. 4-2-3-1 no longer king.