Two major bugbears

[Bothan Spy]

Firstly, why is it about 9 times out of 10, that when i bring a sub on his attitude says, 'looks complacent'? Surely he should be running around like a happy headless chicken!

Secondly, why is it when I suggest to a coach that when I want a full back to train to run down the left or right, they sometimes say, "I don't see him doing that"? Surely a full backs job means he needs to do that! 

[lemeuresnew]

3 hours ago, Bothan Spy said:

Firstly, why is it about 9 times out of 10, that when i bring a sub on his attitude says, 'looks complacent'? Surely he should be running around like a happy headless chicken!

whats the score? what did you tell him when you put him on? 

not all fullbacks can do that, or should try to. sometimes depends on the coach too, different coaches have different styles. does the training work when you ignore them? do they not like you etc?

 

[scass]

4 hours ago, Bothan Spy said:

Firstly, why is it about 9 times out of 10, that when i bring a sub on his attitude says, 'looks complacent'? Surely he should be running around like a happy headless chicken!

Secondly, why is it when I suggest to a coach that when I want a full back to train to run down the left or right, they sometimes say, "I don't see him doing that"? Surely a full backs job means he needs to do that! 

I find if I'm in a commanding lead, and I bring a young player on to give him some minutes, or to give a key player a rest,yes, he looks complacent. Doesn't seem to matter what his determination/ambition is, he just looks complacent. What makes me even more irritated is when you're a goal down, and you bring someone on and he looks "happy." I'm always wary of players looking happy. But to be fair, I've seen "complacent" when I'm chasing a lead, or going for a winner.

As for the coach advice, it's irritating and doesn't just apply to full backs. But lemeuresnew is also right, in that some players can't do certain things - but it does seem random. Not seeing a player as being capable of learning to look for the pass rather than shoot, for example, is a bit tiresome and implausible.

[Hovis Dexter]

We are 3-0 up and I've just brought a 17 year old on as a sub to give him some game time. First of all he's complacent and then he decides he's not interested. WTF? As the OP said he should be running his socks off. Also there's no way to tell him that his attitude in the match was unacceptable.

[RBKalle]

The "Looks complacent" thing for subs of all ages, quality and status is definitely very annoying...

Be it a pre-season friendly against the local amateurs or a CL semifinal, most subs will casually jog around, even though logic would dictate they'd want to impress me. I can't believe they ALL have low professionalism/ambition etc.

[eple]

Run down the wing is an instruction to often dribble the ball down the flank. If the player lacks pace or is a poor dribbler, the coach is correct in that it will be a hard instruction to master.

[mack4ever]

On 01/03/2018 at 00:38, scass said:

I find if I'm in a commanding lead, and I bring a young player on to give him some minutes, or to give a key player a rest,yes, he looks complacent. Doesn't seem to matter what his determination/ambition is, he just looks complacent. What makes me even more irritated is when you're a goal down, and you bring someone on and he looks "happy." I'm always wary of players looking happy. But to be fair, I've seen "complacent" when I'm chasing a lead, or going for a winner.

As for the coach advice, it's irritating and doesn't just apply to full backs. But lemeuresnew is also right, in that some players can't do certain things - but it does seem random. Not seeing a player as being capable of learning to look for the pass rather than shoot, for example, is a bit tiresome and implausible.

I'm 27 years old and I'm a goalkeeper. I started playing for a local team when I was 6 years old and have always been a goalkeeper.

For as long as I can remember I've punched the ball too often, it's my instinctive reaction in a lot of situations even when attempting a catch is probably the better option.

Until a few years ago I'd never had any coaches try and change this habit but when I was 23 we got a new coach at our club who decided to work with me on it. So every training session we'd work on it and in every training match I was doing much better than normal when it came to making the decision to catch rather than punch.

However every single time I played in a competitive game the old habit returned immediately. Balls that I'd be catching 9 times out of 10 in training I found myself punching, everything I'd worked on in training went straight out of the window.

Once something has become instinctive, once it's second nature to you, stopping yourself from doing that when there's any pressure on you is extremely hard to do. Sure some people can overcome lifelong habits without too much difficulty but for most people it's either something that will take a lot of time and effort or is going to be something they're simply unable to do.

[HUNT3R]

1 hour ago, Hovis Dexter said:

We are 3-0 up and I've just brought a 17 year old on as a sub to give him some game time. First of all he's complacent and then he decides he's not interested. WTF? As the OP said he should be running his socks off. Also there's no way to tell him that his attitude in the match was unacceptable.

So that's where you SHOULD do something as manager. Tell him he can't be complacent; that you expect a performance from him still.

[Hovis Dexter]

Thanks for that. I did give him an individual "demand more" shout which didn't have any visible effect. I'll sub him on again and tell him I expect a performance.

[sporadicsmiles]

On 28/02/2018 at 21:15, Bothan Spy said:

Firstly, why is it about 9 times out of 10, that when i bring a sub on his attitude says, 'looks complacent'? Surely he should be running around like a happy headless chicken!

Secondly, why is it when I suggest to a coach that when I want a full back to train to run down the left or right, they sometimes say, "I don't see him doing that"? Surely a full backs job means he needs to do that! 

You are not motivating them to play. For me, this kind of thing only happens when I have a lead in a match, and therefore do not try very hard to motivate a player when I put him on. Tell them you want them to play hard still. Or tell them they were not good enough after the match. Motivation is the job of the manager.

Depends on the full back. I often play with at least one defensive fullback, and the last thing I want him to do naturally is run down the wing with the ball. I want him to be a wide defender, and occasionally an outlet ball when we have possession. If the player is not good at dribbling, or has poor technique, or control, or other things like this, then he is not going to easily be able to adapt his game to do this. You need to find the right full backs.

[scass]

4 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

So that's where you SHOULD do something as manager. Tell him he can't be complacent; that you expect a performance from him still.

So, where in the player interaction dialogue box does it say "You can't be complacent?"  Or in the post match?  Or in the touchline instructions? Or in the instructions before you send him on?

[scass]

4 hours ago, mack4ever said:

I'm 27 years old and I'm a goalkeeper. I started playing for a local team when I was 6 years old and have always been a goalkeeper.

For as long as I can remember I've punched the ball too often, it's my instinctive reaction in a lot of situations even when attempting a catch is probably the better option.

Until a few years ago I'd never had any coaches try and change this habit but when I was 23 we got a new coach at our club who decided to work with me on it. So every training session we'd work on it and in every training match I was doing much better than normal when it came to making the decision to catch rather than punch.

However every single time I played in a competitive game the old habit returned immediately. Balls that I'd be catching 9 times out of 10 in training I found myself punching, everything I'd worked on in training went straight out of the window.

Once something has become instinctive, once it's second nature to you, stopping yourself from doing that when there's any pressure on you is extremely hard to do. Sure some people can overcome lifelong habits without too much difficulty but for most people it's either something that will take a lot of time and effort or is going to be something they're simply unable to do.

Interesting point, but with all due respect, you weren't a professional footballer playing for a Champions League winning side with high potential.

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, scass said:

So, where in the player interaction dialogue box does it say "You can't be complacent?"  Or in the post match?  Or in the touchline instructions? Or in the instructions before you send him on?

"I expect a performance"

[mack4ever]

3 minutes ago, scass said:

Interesting point, but with all due respect, you weren't a professional footballer playing for a Champions League winning side with high potential.

A habit is a habit, doesn't matter what your standing in life is, some people find it harder than others to break habits. Instinctive reactions don't stop being instinctive.

Let's take me out of the equation and look at it as if we are looking at a top flight goalkeeper.

When a cross is put in that keeper isn't thinking "Should I catch it or punch it? Where are the opposition? Where are my own team?" and countless other questions that could be involved in the decision making process. Sure they will be considering all of those factors but it will be entirely subconscious and fundamentally their default reaction is going to be whatever comes most instinctively to them, and if that is punching a cross rather than catching it then most of the time they will default to that.

At no point in the process of subconsciously choosing a course of action will that keeper consider any factor outside of the immediate moment. They're not going to be thinking "I'm paid a lot of money and therefore I shouldn't punch this ball" or anything else along those lines because instinctive reactions don't work like that.

That fundamentally is the reason why players at all levels can struggle or be incapable of changing their habits. Some people are simply not wired in a way that makes it possible, their instinctive reactions in certain situations are so set in their mind that no matter what you do you will always still default to that reaction.

[Bothan Spy]

No. It's a game fault. Nothing more, nothing less. No excuses. 

[mack4ever]

4 hours ago, Bothan Spy said:

No. It's a game fault. Nothing more, nothing less. No excuses. 

Ah OK, so instead of having a reasoned discussion your response is simply "no, all player should be able to learn all things".

Genius mate, just genius.

[scass]

On 3/3/2018 at 16:33, HUNT3R said:

"I expect a performance"

I've given it a chance for the last season and a half, because I don't want to rush to snap judgements. I'm afraid it's never worked.

[SpikeHughes]

On 01/03/2018 at 00:38, scass said:

I find if I'm in a commanding lead, and I bring a young player on to give him some minutes, or to give a key player a rest,yes, he looks complacent. Doesn't seem to matter what his determination/ambition is, he just looks complacent. What makes me even more irritated is when you're a goal down, and you bring someone on and he looks "happy." I'm always wary of players looking happy. But to be fair, I've seen "complacent" when I'm chasing a lead, or going for a winner.

As for the coach advice, it's irritating and doesn't just apply to full backs. But lemeuresnew is also right, in that some players can't do certain things - but it does seem random. Not seeing a player as being capable of learning to look for the pass rather than shoot, for example, is a bit tiresome and implausible.

Go on the thing to make side lend shouts and put on show some passion or encourage as he’s young, works 9/10 for me. 

[Patrick23213]

I generally always use the "don't get complacent" team talks when we're winning by 2 goals or less (both half and full-time) and almost never use the "delighted" talk for the whole team (unless we won against much bigger club) and be disappointed with draws even when we're huge underdog. It might have little to no effect (or even a couple of demotivated players) if you're a new manager but as time goes by almost everyone seem to react positively to it. Now most of my players never get complacent/uninterested even when we're the favorite unless it's a second leg cup match when we're leading by large margin. Sub or not.

Also using the "delighted" talk for exceptional individuals after the match will make them "motivated and inspired". Not sure what that means _exactly_ but it can only be good.

 

Most of my players have professional or fairly professional personality with more than 10 determination tho. None of them have noticeable bad personality like unambitious/casual/slack.

[Transk53]

On 03/03/2018 at 11:36, mack4ever said:

I'm 27 years old and I'm a goalkeeper. I started playing for a local team when I was 6 years old and have always been a goalkeeper.

For as long as I can remember I've punched the ball too often, it's my instinctive reaction in a lot of situations even when attempting a catch is probably the better option.

Until a few years ago I'd never had any coaches try and change this habit but when I was 23 we got a new coach at our club who decided to work with me on it. So every training session we'd work on it and in every training match I was doing much better than normal when it came to making the decision to catch rather than punch.

However every single time I played in a competitive game the old habit returned immediately. Balls that I'd be catching 9 times out of 10 in training I found myself punching, everything I'd worked on in training went straight out of the window.

Once something has become instinctive, once it's second nature to you, stopping yourself from doing that when there's any pressure on you is extremely hard to do. Sure some people can overcome lifelong habits without too much difficulty but for most people it's either something that will take a lot of time and effort or is going to be something they're simply unable to do.

Yes muscle memory is hard to redefine.

[scass]

1 hour ago, Patrick23213 said:

Most of my players have professional or fairly professional personality with more than 10 determination tho. None of them have noticeable bad personality like unambitious/casual/slack.

No, mine don't either. Though, curiously, I have found motivated and inspired often comes after mild criticism.  Doesn't solve the "looks complacent" when it comes to bringing on a sub to give him minutes though.

[craiigman]

On 03/03/2018 at 16:33, HUNT3R said:

"I expect a performance"

For a 17 year old who’s getting some first team minutes? That’s the way to get “looks stressed”

[HUNT3R]

On 4/14/2018 at 16:08, craiigman said:

For a 17 year old who’s getting some first team minutes? That’s the way to get “looks stressed”

It isn't the way in all cases. This is the point. It'll depend on his personality/hidden attributes. It also depends on the match situation.

If he's only "getting some first team minutes" then it sounds like you're not expecting anything from him other for him to get the experience. In that case, go with "have faith" or something.

In any case, it depends on the match situation as well. If you're 3-0 up against the bottom team in the league with 10 minutes to go, you're going to have a very tough time motivating anyone you're bringing on. The game is done! That is where I use "expect performance" because I don't simply want to give him minutes - I want to see what he's capable of. There's no need to get all stressed because the game is in the bag - I just don't want him being complacent.

On the other hand, if it's 2-1 with 10 minutes to go, but I still feel the game is won and I'm not risking too much by bringing said 17yo on, I won't go with "expect a performance". I'll be a lot more gentle in my approach and use "have faith" in most cases, although again there are other factors to take into consideration, like his morale.