westy8chimp Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 has anyone already poached the classic line "you're only cheating yourself" yet? If not... claimed! I've had a scan through some of the download tactics and they all look appalling. Why would you want to download someone else's tactic not knowing why they made certain decisions ... make your own tactics to suit your style, more fun, more rewarding and in the end easier! I like changing it around quite a lot to see how different shapes translate in the ME. For instance tonight I'm probably going to change my 352 into a 3331 dlf (a) amc (a) wg (s) wg (s) iwb (s) HB (d) iwb (s) bpd (d) cb (d) bpd (d) just to see if it gets anywhere close to Guardiolas 334 for Bayern. It will take 5 mins to create... I can watch it over 3-5 games and either tweak of abandon (most likely abandon but it will be fun to watch) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, shirajzl said: I'd agree with you only in cases when someone is presenting himself as a super skillful FM players via blog/YT/social media while going out of his way to conceal the fact he's using a downloaded tactic. I don't really use social media so can't comment too much but my gut feeling is that videos make it more transparent & open as to what is done or not done which is a good thing in general and means there is less misunderstanding overall. 2 minutes ago, shirajzl said: Otherwise, if someone is, let's say writing a forum story about his FM save and is enjoying the process (and using a downloaded tactic), I see no harm because you can either enjoy the story, too, or not read it at all. We have a choice of consuming the content we (dis)like. Yeah, like you say a story is a story and its about enjoying the ride but I still think people should be upfront and clear about what they've done or not done. It generally wouldn't distract from the story and wouldn't stop people reading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carninho Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 11 minutes ago, westy8chimp said: has anyone already poached the classic line "you're only cheating yourself" yet? If not... claimed! I've had a scan through some of the download tactics and they all look appalling. Why would you want to download someone else's tactic not knowing why they made certain decisions ... make your own tactics to suit your style, more fun, more rewarding and in the end easier! I like changing it around quite a lot to see how different shapes translate in the ME. For instance tonight I'm probably going to change my 352 into a 3331 dlf (a) amc (a) wg (s) wg (s) iwb (s) HB (d) iwb (s) bpd (d) cb (d) bpd (d) just to see if it gets anywhere close to Guardiolas 334 for Bayern. It will take 5 mins to create... I can watch it over 3-5 games and either tweak of abandon (most likely abandon but it will be fun to watch) Woooooow there boy, your trying to force us all to cheat now buy looking at this post. my cheating eyes are burning!! on a side note if you look at the Pep tactics in the forum you will see that the post above is nothing like what he uses IRL, when it comes to implementing it within FM, so have a read though it I have played since the first Champ Manager and along the way I've used the odd tactic, but never touched any of the game breakers (but don't have issues with people that do). I did exploit the corner routine a few years back when you could setup to score 20 a season, and I have rage quit many times over the years, reloaded my savegame on youth recruitment day, messed around with the database editor, managed 2 teams at once... since FM16 I started to look at the tactic forums here on SIGames (after others I used closed). As I said on page one, I love the details that many people add and the full explanations behind the decisions and player roles. @Franky is the main creator/sharer I follow. they don't all suit what I want my teams to do but they have helped me understand the latest FM additions. I can get stuck in a rut just doing the same old things year after year so its good to get a fresh approach and pick out things I miss/don't notice. for me if you avoid the tactics forum then you are missing out some of the posts in this thread obvs make me laugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Never taken a look at the leaderboards, never uploaded there myself though. The main concern should lie with SI, as even affiliates such as FMBase are a total minefield and shock full of bad advice, in particular long-term. And it's in tendency the same players who announce that this would be the last FM they buy. As the game had destroyed their tactics, how they'd get loads of big numbers in the stats to minimal return, how their poor players competing on levels they had no business competing at would get neither call-ups for their national sides nor much of a decent offer and similar likewise. Or how their logical setups would get lesser results than the seemingly illogical stuff they just pop in and hit continue. They pop up every year and announce this will be the last FM they buy, rinse, wash, repeat, and some undoubtedly do so. If I were to run such places, I'd place a prominent sticky somewhere stating some of the more obvious (which isn't to discourage players going down a certain route they enjoy at all... but making them aware of why things may be as they are). Spinning this back to the OP question, why should you feel bad about playing a game in the way you enjoy? Whatever makes your boat afloat. westy put it best, if you don't feel you're "cheating" yourself by googling all the wonderkids or whatever, that's all that matters. Technically I'm on a "cheat" save right now too, as I have edited all the Ribery's to Boulogne. May the FM lords have mercy and not punish me with the first injury crisis in..... I don't know, five releases and several dozen saves. ;-) 1 hour ago, knap said: In view of the massive amount of interest in Korea and China in download tactics, it will probably be the battle of the downloads. Maybe so, knap, but I think the Chinese are busy with other things in the meantime. https://www.pcgamesn.com/football-manager-2017/fm17-chinese-localisation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_e Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 For me it would feel like cheating, but that doesn't have to be cheating for someone else. Everybody has to make ut their own mind and play how they want to play. And if downloading tactics is how people have fun with the game, then fantastic! I see some people here claiming that if you do that you are playing someone else's game and they can just as well play it for you... absolute rubbish, and such an arrogant thing to say. Just like visiting the tactics forum isn't cheating, it's learning. Just like you learn from people in real life, football or something else. I guess there are several people here with coaching badges from real life, what did you do during those courses? I know I learned from people with more knowledge than me, and then I could process that information and make my own decisions, like with other forms of education. Seems to me several people in here created 4-4-2 in their own head (Arrigo Sacchi, are you using this forum? Amazing!). And of course, people working with football in real life, learn from each others ideas all the time. That being said, I think people that download tactics should try to create their own over time, as I think it enhances the experience Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 43 minutes ago, Carninho said: Woooooow there boy, your trying to force us all to cheat now buy looking at this post. my cheating eyes are burning!! on a side note if you look at the Pep tactics in the forum you will see that the post above is nothing like what he uses IRL, when it comes to implementing it within FM, so have a read though it I have played since the first Champ Manager and along the way I've used the odd tactic, but never touched any of the game breakers (but don't have issues with people that do). I did exploit the corner routine a few years back when you could setup to score 20 a season, and I have rage quit many times over the years, reloaded my savegame on youth recruitment day, messed around with the database editor, managed 2 teams at once... since FM16 I started to look at the tactic forums here on SIGames (after others I used closed). As I said on page one, I love the details that many people add and the full explanations behind the decisions and player roles. @Franky is the main creator/sharer I follow. they don't all suit what I want my teams to do but they have helped me understand the latest FM additions. I can get stuck in a rut just doing the same old things year after year so its good to get a fresh approach and pick out things I miss/don't notice. for me if you avoid the tactics forum then you are missing out some of the posts in this thread obvs make me laugh pep tactics in the forum is someone else's opinion of how he plays... for a certain team in a certain time. I'm specifically locking it down to his 334 at Bayern ... ive researched it myself so I don't get all the noise from 1000s of people on here saying how they thing he plays I will use PI/TI to create something akin to the below. IWBs will cut inside to fill halfspace... whilst my wingers hug the line and in theory get plenty of space... ill set width to play wider so hopefully my cbs split .. my dlf and amc should work as a front 2 for the most part... with roaming and move into channels. My DM will stay back as a defensive cover. My tweaks from above might be that the HB should be an Anchorman for instance.. or my AMC (a) should be CM (a) ... I will start with one idea.... see how it works and amend it. p.s I voted no on the cheating... and didn't say at any point that it was cheating.. ive voted no ... but given my opinion that downloading tactics is disadvantageous and less fun than creating them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimland Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 How people play the game is up to them. For me that doesn't follow football at all in real life, the tactics and training forum an invaluable assets into the thinking of how the game works. I usually play som obscure english low league team where the players set the limits and usually those aint very high or broad. I start off with putting my best players on the field and see what I can build from there, I spend a lot of times reading about how other people think when they build their tactics as it is my prefered way of learing, would probably tear all my hair out if I had to actually watch the real thing. I pick up thoughts on what options do what and what suits different style of players and try to make it work for my team, often more luck than anything when something works. My tactic that so far has taken Nuneaton to the PL was something forced upon me due to injuries, would had never thought of putting that kind of team on the field but it worked so I kept building on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenzar Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 No way is it cheating. Most RL managers would surely use bits and pieces from other manager's tactics - how many people switched to 4-4-2 back in the 70s? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Lenzar said: No way is it cheating. Most RL managers would surely use bits and pieces from other manager's tactics - how many people switched to 4-4-2 back in the 70s? Definitely, IRL I know for a fact Pochettino downloaded Conte's 343 with the same player instructions and team instructions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethjohn79 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 On 07/02/2017 at 14:47, Robsteren_DK said: Hi Gartethjohn79, I have been playing this game (CM/FM etc.) since 1994. As you can imagine my life has changed a bit since then, and I now have other obligations than my computer and FM. Back in the day, I had time to create my own tactics, and I managed to put effort into it. Looking back too much perhaps. Now a days, I have a family, so the time I can spend on the game is much more limited. I can average a few hours a week to enjoy the game. So I look at other tactics for inspiration and adapt my own style into them. So I can't actually be bothered to invent the wheel again, if someone has done it before me. Given the time I can spend on the game, I would much rather progress than start from scratch. But I will not just download a plug and play tactic either. Or a ME exploit. As that is no fun. So I wouldn't consider it cheating. /Robsteren Says more than the long winded life story Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethjohn79 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 On 07/02/2017 at 13:08, Carninho said: bit personal, but then many of your posts on here are. I hope they use your face on the FM18 box as you deserve to have your high moral code rewarded Aw!! Struck a nerve? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethjohn79 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 On 08/02/2017 at 15:18, Lenzar said: No way is it cheating. Most RL managers would surely use bits and pieces from other manager's tactics - how many people switched to 4-4-2 back in the 70s? They don't download a tactic and carry on without having a clue as to what they are actually do. Whats so difficult about building a tactic from a Formation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 "Cheating" - to deceive, defraud or swindle. The act of intentionally violating rules. I really don't think downloading a tactic falls into any of those categories. Remember, being able to download and install a tactic is part of the games' built in functionality. It can help the community spirit (just check the downloads section) and encourages experimentation and learning. Sharing tactics is part and parcel of the game and is exactly the same thing as asking for advice, or writing tactical guides. It's a game, and whatever way you find enjoyment from it is the best way to be. Palming things off as your own work when it isn't, or bragging about how good you are when you've baulked the results is what falls under that "cheating" definition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethjohn79 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 But haven't those who download tactics or copy of ones they see on the Game developers Web Forum twigged it yet. When that tactic no longer works on the next edition of FM? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powermonger Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I don't think downloading a tactic is cheating. If you compare it to the real world it is similar to a coach reading a tactical coaching book, watching a YouTube video or reading a football analysis site going over some top clubs tactic and how to implement them in a your own team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 This is going round in circles, so lets keep it civil and on-topic or it will get closed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 In my opinion anything that exploits the match engine i.e a corner tactic that results in a guaranteed goal each time is cheating, as would editing data to make all your players have maximum ability, or taking control of another team and selling all their players cheaply, releasing them on free transfers, reloading a save constantly until you get a win, etc. But I wouldn't personally throw a blanket statement by saying anyone that downloads a tactic is cheating, as not all downloadable tactics are exploits, although many are. I would never download a tactic, not because of some weird moral high ground, but simply because the core of Football Manager games for me is the tactical side, and if I take that part away then there wouldn't be much left for me to enjoy. Downloading a tactic called "Destroyer" or "Utimate Goal Scorer" and winning matches by 10 goals, and finishing every season with 200 goals and 0 conceded and me simply pressing the space bar, and making transfers is not my idea of fun. I might as well play Touch, use the instant result and default match plans... I take the same approach with finding wonderkids, some people might think googling a list of wonderkids is "cheating". The reason I don't search online is because I get enjoyment of finding them myself. However it's a game at the end of the day, and people get enjoyment out of different things. I personally don't play online in any games as unfortunately what other people do does interfere with my enjoyment, as it's a do anything to win mentality. A game like Fifa online isn't enjoyable as people score cheap goals, use exploits etc, and I don't find that enjoyable. I'd rather lose while playing against someone that is trying to recreate football to some degree. I can only imagine what playing Football Manager online would be like dealing with exploit tactics, so there would be zero enjoyment for me. Each to their own.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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