[FM 17] If You’re Not First, You’re Last Redux – Redemption For The “Nearly Men” Of Europe

[kidthekid]

Board Expectations: Don't be outclassed.

Never seen that one before.

I'm curious about how you will approach this team tactically

[ManUtd1]

56 minutes ago, BoxToBox said:

I wonder if you're there long enough can you push Belgium over the hump to become a top league, if Spain and Italy are in such bad shape.

That would be ideal...and it would make Spain more entertaining for when it does actually happen!

45 minutes ago, hasdgfas said:

Yes! I love seeing Belgian teams do well. I've been considering managing there for a long time but just never taken the plunge. This should be fun

I'm hoping so -- glad to have you back, man!

11 minutes ago, kidthekid said:

Board Expectations: Don't be outclassed.

Never seen that one before.

I'm curious about how you will approach this team tactically

I'll post up my plans tomorrow 

[hasdgfas]

20 minutes ago, ManUtd1 said:

I'm hoping so -- glad to have you back, man!

Thanks! Don't think I'll be posting a career for a while. I have too many other games I want to get through right now to put that much time into FM. But it's still fun reading about everyone's careers. I should be around a bit more often, at least.

[Joe.]

Good choice. I think ultimately a Spanish job will open up more regularly than a Belgian/Serbian/Greek job so whenever one of those becomes available it's probably worth going for.

[Rikulec]

A new Twitter character, wonderful.

[Fer Fuchs Ake]

15 hours ago, ManUtd1 said:

 

 

It is mean to be pretty physical. Your players could be left with a few Bruges.

[ManUtd1]

15 hours ago, Joe. said:

Good choice. I think ultimately a Spanish job will open up more regularly than a Belgian/Serbian/Greek job so whenever one of those becomes available it's probably worth going for.

The Valencia and Atletico jobs haven't opened as much as I'd expected, thus far. Perhaps a function of Madrid and Barcelona's dominance, or the hit to the league's reputation?

6 hours ago, Rikulec said:

A new Twitter character, wonderful.

He's got a touch of Brendan about him, too 

4 hours ago, Fer Fuchs Ake said:

It is mean to be pretty physical. Your players could be left with a few Bruges.

Take a bow 

[Fer Fuchs Ake]

28 minutes ago, ManUtd1 said:

The Valencia and Atletico jobs haven't opened as much as I'd expected, thus far. Perhaps a function of Madrid and Barcelona's dominance, or the hit to the league's reputation?

He's got a touch of Brendan about him, too 

Take a bow 

I don't know whether to be proud or ashamed 

[noikeee]

Manager wins his umpteenth Champions League, buggers off to a midtable Belgian club. Seems realistic.

Mind you, not as realistic as Genk and West Brom in the Champions League last 4...

Good luck in Belgium. I think this will be more of a long term project than taking over teams in bigger leagues, although given your past success at places like Malmö, you'll eventually crack this one as well.

[ManUtd1]

19 hours ago, Fer Fuchs Ake said:

I don't know whether to be proud or ashamed 

Rest assured, you should be very proud. 

6 hours ago, noikeee said:

Manager wins his umpteenth Champions League, buggers off to a midtable Belgian club. Seems realistic.

Mind you, not as realistic as Genk and West Brom in the Champions League last 4...

Good luck in Belgium. I think this will be more of a long term project than taking over teams in bigger leagues, although given your past success at places like Malmö, you'll eventually crack this one as well.

Hahaha...it is a mad, mad world.

I do like the "smaller nation" feel, even if Belgium is 6th in the various coefficients. It is one reason why I rejected Spain for the moment. Frankly, if I do well enough to surpass Spain, that'll make Valencia and Atletico more appealing down the road 

[ManUtd1]

Tactical update coming tonight. Due to work, I haven't progressed a single day beyond my appointment, really assessed the squad, got training in order, etc...much less had time to write things up.

Edited May 4, 2017 by ManUtd1

[ManUtd1]

Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really ****, but you weren't all that great either.  Like Tottenham.  

 

Club Brugge KV

Tactical Musings

Alright, I've lost this post twice now, so I'm just going to cut right to the chase.

I've been reading up on the Very Fluid/Overload tactics employed by @Guimy and @DrPoods in their Wolfpack and Decapitated Buffalo tactics, and decided to start tinkering.  I wanted to mix their concepts with the existing PM Libre structure, and it was delightfully effective.  But, I wanted to utilize fullbacks or wingbacks, which we weren't set up for at Frankfurt.  

Now, I'm In Bruges, so to speak.  No sign of Colin Farrell, though.

The base tactic will be PM Branco di Libero -- or "Grapefruit Pack of Libero," a grammatical monstrosity intended to be an homage to @Guimy.

The formation is essentially the same as PM Libre -- except, we've substituted @Guimy's "withdrawn targetman" for the enganche, changed the inverted wingbacks to fullbacks.

The TIs  are basically from the Wolfpack tactic, but with: (1) a normal defensive line; (2) no offside trap; and (3) "stay on feet" ticked.  As to the first two, Brugge isn't good enough to play that high a line...and it'd be rather silly to play an offside trap with a libero.  At least, that's my gut reaction.

I also chose to keep my lads on their feet, due to the aggressive OIs:

I switched to these OIs for the final season at Frankfurt, and they worked a treat.  The heavy emphasis on closing down the opposition midfield/defense (instead of their more advanced players) resulted in: (1) more forced turnovers/interceptions as the opposition sought to alleviate pressure; and (2) kept a tighter, more coherent shape at the back, since we weren't chasing players as much.

The counter/defensive version is essentially a tweaked version of the PM In Catene approach, lovingly named PM Lupo Incatenato ("grapefruit chained wolf")...again, an homage:

 

Obviously, the aggression of the fullbacks can be toned down with the overlap TI if need be.  But, as with PM Libre, the goal is to get the side forward at pace -- with some width, this time around.

The primary tactic was working with Frankfurt, but Brugge is not Frankfurt.  At least, not yet.

My initial goal is to take the **** out of that arrogant, snide Kiwi **** at Anderlecht.

Edited May 5, 2017 by ManUtd1

[Guimy]

This should prove interesting

[noikeee]

Okay, you might not have inverted wingbacks anymore, but a libero + strikerless + overload mentality combo is still pretty damn ridiculous. 

[ManUtd1]

2 hours ago, noikeee said:

Okay, you might not have inverted wingbacks anymore, but a libero + strikerless + overload mentality combo is still pretty damn ridiculous. 

As @Guimy put it in his Wolfpack post (linked above), it seems pants-****tingly insane. But, if the purpose is to have the side function as a single unit as much as possible, with as little space between the lines as possible...it works a treat!  Extremely compact in defense, aggressive in the attack with even more off the ball movement.

4 hours ago, Guimy said:

This should prove interesting

Interesting is such a delightfully ambiguous word!   

I'd be interested in your thoughts/suggestions on the basic setup, if you have any, and will try to post up some modest analysis as I begin progressing. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by ManUtd1

[Guimy]

I'd say the basic framework looks sturdy and stable, but I'm mostly interested in what the libero does  He will make or break the tactic.

[ManUtd1]

41 minutes ago, Guimy said:

I'd say the basic framework looks sturdy and stable, but I'm mostly interested in what the libero does  He will make or break the tactic.

I'll report back.  I figure he'll be somewhat similar to your BPD and @DrPoods's Anchorman...but, we'll see.  

[Guimy]

I'm definitely curious, since I love the concept of a libero

[Fer Fuchs Ake]

In the relatively short time I've been playing FM, I've never actually seen someone play Overload as their default mentality. This should be interesting.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Fer Fuchs Ake

[ManUtd1]

 

Yes, Tomas, lad.  Welcome to Bruges.

[ManUtd1]

Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really ****, but you weren't all that great either.  Like Tottenham.  

 

Club Brugge KV

Tactical Musings (cont.)

A solid start to life in Belgium.  We've yet to face that snide Kiwi **** and his Anderlecht mercenaries...but, if we can sneak into the Championship Group we'll have our chance.  We're only 1 point off the pace with 4 matches to play...the problem being that we've got our Europa League tie against Shaktar as well.  Lots of football in a short period of time.

We're playing well, but these are matches we should win.  The next 6 matches will be the real test....

Alright.  Things are looking good thus far.  4 matches, 3 wins and a draw.

But, the big question is how we're faring tactically. Suffice to say, I'm very pleased.  We've been utterly dominant, with the tactic seeming to work like a charm.  We're very tight at the back.  We're dangerous going forward, with the fullbacks providing assists, creating chances and generally giving us a different dimension in attack -- which they should do, of course.  I've spent the last 17 years (in-game) playing so narrowly, with such direct/central/incisive play that seeing deliberate build-up including width is great -- especially when we're still so deadly coming through the middle, in transition and at pace.

Here's a quick look at how we've done in these first 4 matches -- the layout includes: match overview, individual stats, our average positions for the starting XI (with the ball, without the ball and overall), a heat map, and then the key passes and interceptions screens.  Note that I played the entirety of all four matches with PM Branco di Libero, so that the information would reflect that system without tweaks.

Please let me know if you'd like to see anything else -- @Guimy or anyone else!

KV Kortrijk (away), Jupiler Pro League

  

 

Charleroi (home), Jupiler Pro League

  

 

Zulte Waregem (away), Jupiler Pro League

  

 

Oostende (home), Jupiler Pro League

  

 

Quick Observations

As noted previously, I'm no tactical expert.  What I see, though, is a really effective tactic.  The average positions (with ball) and heatmap from the Oostende match really shows the variety we get in attack.  Overall, we're extremely compact and tough to break down -- the goals we've given up have, frankly, been more down to our keeper being crap than anything else.  Teams who sit back more (Charleroi and Oostende, above) seem to cut down on what the ME classifies as "key passes," but watching the matches play out I'm surprised at the low number, given the chances that were created.  I'm very, very pleased at this early juncture, given that: (1) the tactics are not yet fluid; and (2) I'm working largely with a bloated, inherited squad.

A very promising start.

Edited May 6, 2017 by ManUtd1

[kidthekid]

How is Rob Haak doing? is he going to be your libero going forward, or is he just a makeshift libero until the transfer window. Perhaps a screenshot.

Overload mentality is a Bielsa kind of "no f***s given" approach but like Bielsa, there is a method to the madness

[ManUtd1]

2 minutes ago, kidthekid said:

How is Rob Haak doing? is he going to be your libero going forward, or is he just a makeshift libero until the transfer window. Perhaps a screenshot.

Overload mentality is a Bielsa kind of "no f***s given" approach but like Bielsa, there is a method to the madness

Haak is about as solid a player as I could ask for, walking into a club where I want to use a libero:

 

I haven't found anyone to supplant him, at this point -- at the club (certainly not), or in the transfer market.  I'd honestly like him to be taller, but I'll take it.

There is definitely a method to the madness.  I have to run out for a few, but will post up 3 more matches when I get back, all played through the 90 minutes with no changes.  Bottom line, despite the overload mentality and fullbacks set to overlap...the tactic seems extremely well-suited for teams who attack you aggressively.

[Benjoe]

I like the look of it! 

I'm warming up to the idea of no strikers, and as always love the Libero, so it's all good in the hood. 'Overload' is something I had actually considered back when I was with Celta, but in my African journey I haven't dared to try that - not that I've been succesful anyways though!

In any case, good luck in Belgium! I'd love to make some pun about Bruges because 'to use, could be used' translates to 'at bruge, kunne bruges' in Danish, but I really can't be arsed to atm.  

[ManUtd1]

Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really ****, but you weren't all that great either.  Like Tottenham.  

 

Club Brugge KV

Tactical Musings (cont. again)

Yes, lads.  That's the stuff.  Just wait until the side is truly built to play the Hakan Telleus way.

The Blue Army are on the march, and we're ready to make a run in the Europa League.  At the end of the day, I'd like nothing more than to re-qualify for European competition next year...how we go about that is a mystery at this point, though.

Ok, this will be the last big post for a while on the tactics.  I want to get info up for people on how we're performing, and what the tactic is looking like in its initial stages.  This time, we were tested by 3 relatively solid teams -- Shakhtar home and away, and Gent away in the league.

Shakthar Donetsk (home), Europa League

  

 

Shakthar Donetsk (home), Europa League

  

 

Shakthar Donetsk (away), Europa League

  

 

Quick Observations

We got lucky against Shahktar at home, if I'm being honest.  The 2nd (match-winning) goal came from their keeper spilling a shot from a narrow angle into his own net.  You can also see that they sat back a fair amount against us, causing some frustration but also leading to a fair amount of build-up from width.

The other 2 matches were far more interesting.  I rested 9 of my 1st XI away to Gent, who sat directly above us in the table.  Gent came at us, dominated the first 45...but we were absolutely brilliant at the back, giving them virtually no real look at goal.  In the 2nd half, they got more aggressive and we tore them to pieces.  No changes/tweaks to the base tactic.  It was brilliant.

Away to Shakhtar, I knew they'd come out aggressively at home (and needing to score, being down 1-2 on aggregate.  Again, we tore them apart with tons of space to exploit (the key passes screenshot seems to show this).  While we spent a fair amount of time in our own half (see the heat map and interceptions screenshots), we were extremely compact and gave away very few chances, soaking up absurd amounts of pressure.

The other thing that the "key passes" screenshots from all 6 matches demonstrate  is the extent to which the tactic attacks and exploits space.  When a team sits back, we have to create space or find another way through.  The width offered by fullbacks is absolutely critical given that the tactic is less direct than PM Libre  and its brethren, with "retain possession" and "work the ball into the box" team instructions.  Our off the ball movement remains extremely impressive.

Things continue to work brilliantly.  Again, please let me know if you want to see more info/detail, or any specific data.  From here on out, I'm going to start adjusting tactics in-game, which theoretically will make things more effective.  Theoretically being the key word here...

Edited May 6, 2017 by ManUtd1

[ManUtd1]

RNGeebus is having a laugh.

 

[ManUtd1]

A draw away to Standard keeps us unbeaten since my appointment, but we still drop to 7th with one match left to play.  

 

Our final match is against Westerlo.  Perhaps qualifying for Europa through the playoffs (against the bottom 10 sides) is the way we'll have to do it.

[Rikulec]

I can't wait to see you try to wrap your head around the Belgian European playoff system.

[ManUtd1]

1 hour ago, Rikulec said:

I can't wait to see you try to wrap your head around the Belgian European playoff system.

It's utter madness, which suits Hakan perfectly 

[Edit: I just realized that it is even crazier than I thought @Rikulec...]

Edited May 6, 2017 by ManUtd1

[Fer Fuchs Ake]

Would you mind showing us Stojkovic?

Edited May 6, 2017 by Fer Fuchs Ake

[ManUtd1]

3 minutes ago, Fer Fuchs Ake said:

Would you mind showing us Stojkovic?

He's outstanding, on a run of form:

  

Edited May 6, 2017 by ManUtd1

[kidthekid]

What nationality is Singh. Just curious. I want to guess Indian, but I don't remember any save where I encountered a regen from there.

[kidthekid]

10 minutes ago, ManUtd1 said:

He's outstanding, on a run of form:

  

He's a perfect shadow striker, except for the work rate but it's good enough to get by.

[ManUtd1]

3 minutes ago, kidthekid said:

What nationality is Singh. Just curious. I want to guess Indian, but I don't remember any save where I encountered a regen from there.

He's Belgian/Indian:

  

Not particularly good.

Just now, kidthekid said:

He's a perfect shadow striker, except for the work rate but it's good enough to get by.

He has been a dream.  We're rampant.  This tactic is great fun -- my favorite of the save, by far. Update soon.

[ManUtd1]

What exactly am I trying to say? You's a bunch of ****in' elephants.  

Club Brugge KV

March 2048 Mini-Update

Talk about a dream start to life in Bruges.  We're taking all comers at this point.  Bring it on.  You can't deal with our infinite nature.

We've dominated.  Domestically, and in Europe.  We slapped the Spaniards down harder than we'd ever dreamed possible, dominating the first leg and controlling lengthy periods of the second.  The possibilities are endless here, once this side is reshaped according to my plans.

Ludwig, bring me another flagon of that delicious Trappist beer!  We're off to France in a few weeks!

 

[ManUtd1]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ManUtd1]

Boom.  Through to the Championship Stage by the skin of our teeth.

  

 

[ManUtd1]

 

 

 

[ManUtd1]

Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really ****, but you weren't all that great either.  Like Tottenham.  

 

Club Brugge KV

Tactical Musings (cont. yet again)

Ok, as noted above, this tactic is not for the faint of heart.  However, I thought I'd share my tweaks for when chasing a game in case anyone was interested.

In short, you take the crazy and ratchet it up.

I've been doing some or all of the following: (1) moving my defensive line to higher; (2) unticking "retain possession;" (3) unticking "work ball into box; (4) add "pass into space;" and (5) increasing the passing directness to "more direct."

Is it even more pants-****tingly insane?  Yes.  This takes the tactic all the way up to 11.

More pressure.  More incisive attacking play.  More risk.  More reward?

The big question is, whether it gets results.  I've employed it twice, late in matches I'd been controlling, but couldn't break through.  The first time, we got the goal we needed.  The second, we not only pulled level, we stayed in the formation and took all 3 points.

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by ManUtd1

[kidthekid]

So basically you are overloading on overload.

[ManUtd1]

Just now, kidthekid said:

So basically you are overloading on overload.

Like giving candy to a toddler.

Edited May 7, 2017 by ManUtd1

[ManUtd1]

What exactly am I trying to say? You's a bunch of ****in' elephants.  

Club Brugge KV

April 2048 Mini-Update

This had to happen eventually.  Our 2nd XI lost away to Standard in the Championship Group, and we dominated (but couldn't pull off) a two-legged victory in the Europa League quarterfinals.

We now have 8 matches, with every chance to snag a Champions League spot if we can sneak into 3rd.  All to play for, gentlemen.

 

[ManUtd1]

One thing is for sure, we need a deeper squad.  2 injuries and tired legs left us chasing this match...I had to resort to the give-the-toddler-cotton-candy method....

 

To be fair, the Zulte Waregem manager shouldn't have started dancing when they scored the 3rd.  The arrogance made us angry.  And you wouldn't like us when we're angry.

Edited May 7, 2017 by ManUtd1

[kidthekid]

Every game is must see TV for Brugge. Goals goals and more goals

[ManUtd1]

9 hours ago, kidthekid said:

Every game is must see TV for Brugge. Goals goals and more goals

Given our tactics and awful keeper, you never know what's going to happen next.

This may have been the most exciting "Hate Game" in decades.

 

How does losing taste, Stroud?

[kidthekid]

The amount of shots you create is too damn high. Are they mostly in the box?

[ManUtd1]

 

[ManUtd1]

1 minute ago, kidthekid said:

The amount of shots you create is too damn high. Are they mostly in the box?

It's an insane number.  Here is the shots breakdown from the Anderlecht match, in 2 screens so it is more visible:

  

We also had 22 corners on the day, one every 4 minutes:

Other breakdown from the match...average positions with the ball, without the ball and overall (for my starting XI):

  

 

Key passes and interceptions:

[ManUtd1]

This is my keeper. 

 

He's just not good enough, and that 12 for reflexes is readily apparent on the pitch.

I'm very excited about the prospect of replacing him this summer.  Or, at the very least, finding the player who will take over after next year.

I'm going to do a squad review at the end of the summer, once I've had a chance to bring in my players (including some who will be promoted from within) and get rid of some of the dead weight.

[kidthekid]

If Dortmund under Klopp played heavy metal football, then this is thrash metal football, I'm talking Megadeth football, Slayer football, running with scissors in a mosh pit football. Throwing elbows with knives attached football.

If there's no blood, are you really having fun