I will pay an extra $20 for the ability to add a league to the game.

[megafan2005]

Guys im sorry but i dont think some of you get it. Even if Sega/SI sell a few extra copies in Malta/Ghana the time spent researching players stats more throughly than they already are will cost more or on par with the money they make whilst adding these leagues. And a huge problem will be balancing. SI withdrew the huge DB because it made it to imbalanced and you could get really good players realitivly easily at the lower leagues. Imagine adding Ghanian or Maltese leagues. Just more room for error I guess. Yes my league (Scotland) is in the game but tbf we have won european competitions in the past when was the last time a team from Malta won a European competition or progressed past the CL group stages so perhaps thats another reason SI wont/havnt added leagues from smaller nations. I may have missed the point entirely because im not sure what the OP is asking for ut theres my 2 cents oh and FYI its quite easy to customise leagues wonder why people find it tricky

[x3widRacin]

The whole point of this thread is to have the ability to add your own league to the game after purchase (potentially using a "blank" pre-coded league that allows you to assign a nation and teams to the league prior to starting the game)

Anyone that brings up research, licenses, number of teams/players in a country or demand for sale in one particular country is simply not reading the thread. We're talking about One feature to appeal to ALL of the remaining 150 nations in the game. Not trying to justify the addition of the Ghanian, Maltese or any other single nation as a playable league.

Also stated nicely:

The point is to have a feature that lets you create leagues or cups. It's not about including Ghana or anyone else in the game as researched by SI.

If you check the downloads for leagues like Egypt, Bosnia, Cyprus, etc, you'll see they get tens of thousands of downloads. No one's saying that this would equal sales, but it must highlight that people enjoy doing this.

It doesn't even have to be OTT with features, you just select 'new league', choose the nation, the number of teams, if it's a Summer or Winter league, the league rules (from those all ready available in the game, ie Serie A, Scotish Premier, etc), set prize and tv money, then boom: There you are.

It's not asking SI for additional research or what have you, it's just a league creating feature. There's nothing as painfull as spending hours (or days!)setting up a league, to watch it fail to load.

[megafan2005]

The editor?!

[Her9]

The whole point of this thread is to have the ability to add your own league to the game after purchase (potentially using a "blank" pre-coded league that allows you to assign a nation and teams to the league prior to starting the game)

Anyone that brings up research, licenses, number of teams/players in a country or demand for sale in one particular country is simply not reading the thread. We're talking about One feature to appeal to ALL of the remaining 150 nations in the game. Not trying to justify the addition of the Ghanian, Maltese or any other single nation as a playable league.

Also stated nicely:

well said.

all we want is the possibility of adding a league. then if it's not accurate or not up to date it's our problem not SI's.

and by the way a messageto megafan...if the inclusion of leagues is based on who has won a european cup or not, FM wouldn't have more than 6/7 leagues.

[Her9]

and as well researchers do there jobs for free and it is voluntary so i am sure that if SI asked for Maltese researchers people would volunteer.

i would for sure

[Neji]

The whole point of this thread is to have the ability to add your own league to the game after purchase (potentially using a "blank" pre-coded league that allows you to assign a nation and teams to the league prior to starting the game)

Anyone that brings up research, licenses, number of teams/players in a country or demand for sale in one particular country is simply not reading the thread. We're talking about One feature to appeal to ALL of the remaining 150 nations in the game. Not trying to justify the addition of the Ghanian, Maltese or any other single nation as a playable league.

Also stated nicely:

Apologies here, I got the wrong end of the stick.

I thought you wanted a blank db which would then need to be 'filled' hence saving absolutely no time or crashes etc.

Now you made it more clear (I must be particualrly slow ) I don't see any problem with this.

[Asjo]

Hell, I'd pay much more that than. It's a feature I have often been a great advert of, and it's probably the greatest feature left to add to the game.

I must say that I don't plan on using 3D and was a little dissapointed when it was announced. No 3D could ever be good enough, so my I'd rather leave it to the imagination and focus on the tactical overview in the 2D screen. Then again, I also said that I didn't want 2D because I prefered my imagination created from the match engine text messages ...

Since I'm on about 2D/3D anyway: There's one bit which is a bit confusing. Miles says 2D will be kept and there will be highlight mode ... surely, we will still be able to watch full match in 2D, right?

[Neji]

I would imagine that the 2D engine wont have any features taken away. It is still fully supported.

[megafan2005]

well said.

all we want is the possibility of adding a league. then if it's not accurate or not up to date it's our problem not SI's.

and by the way a messageto megafan...if the inclusion of leagues is based on who has won a european cup or not, FM wouldn't have more than 6/7 leagues.

13 different countries have been involved in the CL finals either winners or runners up and 15 in the uefa cup. so check stats first

and I never have more than 4 countries loaded up so what inclination would I have to load up the Maltese leagues. I have many other nations that arent huge that i love to manage in and Id choose them over Malta cause theres more wide spread appeal to play them. I wouldnt discuss with my mates how I managed Birkirkara to 3rd in their league but I may discuss how I managed to get Walhain from the Belgian non leagues to beating Anderlecht in the Belgian cup because all my friends would of heard of Anderlecht. I still dont understand what you want cause as far as I can see there is an Editor for a reason and if you were that desperate I would make a Maltese league but not if its going to take many weekends effort and 6 people download it

[MeekoHFC]

It would look and feel magnificent, and would increase buyers put it that way. Just because it's their dont mean you have to use it.

[Her9]

13 different countries have been involved in the CL finals either winners or runners up and 15 in the uefa cup. so check stats first

and I never have more than 4 countries loaded up so what inclination would I have to load up the Maltese leagues. I have many other nations that arent huge that i love to manage in and Id choose them over Malta cause theres more wide spread appeal to play them. I wouldnt discuss with my mates how I managed Birkirkara to 3rd in their league but I may discuss how I managed to get Walhain from the Belgian non leagues to beating Anderlecht in the Belgian cup because all my friends would of heard of Anderlecht. I still dont understand what you want cause as far as I can see there is an Editor for a reason and if you were that desperate I would make a Maltese league but not if its going to take many weekends effort and 6 people download it

we don't need you to make the maltese league playable because there are people who don't snob small countries around like you do and have made the maltese league downloadable.

all we are asking for is a little help from SI to make it easier for us to include new leagues instead of spending countless hours messing around with the database.

[megafan2005]

we don't need you to make the maltese league playable because there are people who don't snob small countries around like you do and have made the maltese league downloadable.

all we are asking for is a little help from SI to make it easier for us to include new leagues instead of spending countless hours messing around with the database.

Snob :L LOL Ive played in many a small league and had a lot of fun out of it. Ive brought teams up from realitive nothing to become respectable teams in their country BUT i have no draw to play in Maltese leagues. So what am I not entitled to my own opinion. And tbh if SI had a magic file they would probably have already included it in the game. and countless hours mucking around in the editor? Hardly its one of the easiest bits of kit to mod a game (N)

[lee50_11]

maybe a 1 off payment

[Neji]

I think every should stop talking about the extra price. I don't think he meant that he actually expected SI to increase the price if they included this.

[fmfan08]

Would anyone else?

3D view and what not is great, but it only enhances the current gaming experience. It doesn't so much improve the core experience.

Why not have the ability to start a standard league, 20 teams, with any nation we want? If I am from Ghana, I want to play a league with teams from Ghana. Its really that simple.

3D/Manager Feeback ... Whatever other nifty little features really don't mean a lot when 75% of the countries in the world have no way of playing with their own teams.

Of course, thats just my opinion, but I'm sure I'm not alone. You don't even need to get licensing for them, just give the users a way to run a simple bare-bones league and put the teams of their country in it without having to be data editing geniuses and sitting through 50 hours of testing to see if the game will or will not crash 3 seasons down the line after an edit.

/rant

I would which would be £10 here. I want this too!

[jayahr]

The whole point of this thread is to have the ability to add your own league to the game after purchase (potentially using a "blank" pre-coded league that allows you to assign a nation and teams to the league prior to starting the game)

Anyone that brings up research, licenses, number of teams/players in a country or demand for sale in one particular country is simply not reading the thread. We're talking about One feature to appeal to ALL of the remaining 150 nations in the game. Not trying to justify the addition of the Ghanian, Maltese or any other single nation as a playable league.

Also stated nicely:

If you bothered to answer Matt's questions we would finally know whether you are naive, ignorant or just don't explain yourself exactly.

[GoGa70]

If you bothered to answer Matt's questions we would finally know whether you are naive, ignorant or just don't explain yourself exactly.

Actually I don't understand his reply entirely.

He's talking about adding a league at SI's point, the OP wants to add his own teams to a predefined structure. What research? What licences? FIFA manager had this for years anyways - 10 different formats or smth shouldn't be that hard to code.

[George_Gough]

I think every should stop talking about the extra price. I don't think he meant that he actually expected SI to increase the price if they included this.

Excactly. I have been reading this thread, and was quite shocked that noone seemed able to grasp that.

Its just a saying. Like, "I would give my own mother to be able to get FM09 today". If he had used that phrase, I doubt everyone would come on here complaining that allthough they want the game as soon as possible, it doesnt warrant the price of a mother.

[PMLF]

I would love a feature like this.

I also think it should let us add more divisions to countries that are already in the game.

[_Chief_]

To the original poster, I understand you perfectly, I've in past years asked for the exact same possibility.

I had given the same alternatives, including the blank league (I called it at the time the Standard League with 2/3 promotions, 2/3 relegations, 3 points per win, 5/7 subs), as to the so-called 'research' and 'high-standards' (the best and typical argument used to disregard this kind of propositions), I had explained that there are many volunteers who would gladly type and enter the data, and do it better than what we have now in some countries (have you taken a look at SouthAmerica's DB ? Argentine DB ? Years complaining, always the same errors and mistakes), so before anybody asks me to post in the Data forum, I'll just ask, high standard, properly/well done ? what high standard ? This people can type in and at the least it would have the same quality we have now, but I'm sure it would be of greater quality.

So that can't be an excuse for not doing it or enabling that option

It's a disgrace that countries like Argentina (twice world champion, runner-up, many well known players, ...) has only two leagues playable, while Brasil (undeniably the football power it is) has on the other hand so many (hell, they even had to redo and modify the code to optimize it because it took so long to calculate, ending up in separating their championships and/or regions, that was in fm2006 or fm2007). This simply places Argentina at the same level as other southamerican countries that also have just two leagues (Uruguay, well first world champion, Chile, Colombia), I'm colombian by the way.

If you consider that Peru is already in the game with one league, that leaves only other 4 countries to fill southamerica (I also mentioned this on an old post), but the interesting thing is that the leagues of these remaining countries are not made of many teams, to take an example, Ecuador's premier league consists of 12 teams, so does the Paraguayan league and Bolivian, finally Venezuelan league consists of 18 teams. Not that many teams, of course you have to add the second league and maybe the third, but the first is partially there because of continental competitions.

Sorry got carried away remembering old posts, which unfortunately were lost during forum migration.

Folks, the real reason why they won't open the leagues and let you add or modify them, rules and all, is simple and was given or implied at that moment, ...

--- fear that you won't buy the next year edition if you cut loose.

[tdc5013]

I'd like to be able to load more leagues while I'm in the middle of a game. Occasionally I start a game, choose my leagues, then 2 seasons in decide I want to add another one. I don't know how plausible this is, I mean obviously you wouldnt be able to add a league halfway through a season, but in preseason maybe the option should be there. We can already see the players they have on their (teams from unloaded leagues) teams, and they can already buy players from the loaded leagues. I'd like to hear what other people think about this.

[Her9]

To the original poster, I understand you perfectly, I've in past years asked for the exact same possibility.

I had given the same alternatives, including the blank league (I called it at the time the Standard League with 2/3 promotions, 2/3 relegations, 3 points per win, 5/7 subs), as to the so-called 'research' and 'high-standards' (the best and typical argument used to disregard this kind of propositions), I had explained that there are many volunteers who would gladly type and enter the data, and do it better than what we have now in some countries (have you taken a look at SouthAmerica's DB ? Argentine DB ? Years complaining, always the same errors and mistakes), so before anybody asks me to post in the Data forum, I'll just ask, high standard, properly/well done ? what high standard ? This people can type in and at the least it would have the same quality we have now, but I'm sure it would be of greater quality.

So that can't be an excuse for not doing it or enabling that option

It's a disgrace that countries like Argentina (twice world champion, runner-up, many well known players, ...) has only two leagues playable, while Brasil (undeniably the football power it is) has on the other hand so many (hell, they even had to redo and modify the code to optimize it because it took so long to calculate, ending up in separating their championships and/or regions, that was in fm2006 or fm2007). This simply places Argentina at the same level as other southamerican countries that also have just two leagues (Uruguay, well first world champion, Chile, Colombia), I'm colombian by the way.

If you consider that Peru is already in the game with one league, that leaves only other 4 countries to fill southamerica (I also mentioned this on an old post), but the interesting thing is that the leagues of these remaining countries are not made of many teams, to take an example, Ecuador's premier league consists of 12 teams, so does the Paraguayan league and Bolivian, finally Venezuelan league consists of 18 teams. Not that many teams, of course you have to add the second league and maybe the third, but the first is partially there because of continental competitions.

Sorry got carried away remembering old posts, which unfortunately were lost during forum migration.

Folks, the real reason why they won't open the leagues and let you add or modify them, rules and all, is simple and was given or implied at that moment, ...

--- fear that you won't buy the next year edition if you cut loose.

you hit the nail right on its head my friend!

i don't understand the reasoning behind this decision but it's their game and we have to accept it.

all we need is an extra module in the editor that allows you create a new league just the same as you can add a new player.

and if this "risks" of imbalancing the game there could be an option to replace a particular country so the game still has 50 countries.

but heck this thread shows that this will never be implemented because only one SEGA guy replied to the thread and no official comment from SI.

[x3widRacin]

I'd like to be able to load more leagues while I'm in the middle of a game. Occasionally I start a game, choose my leagues, then 2 seasons in decide I want to add another one. I don't know how plausible this is, I mean obviously you wouldnt be able to add a league halfway through a season, but in preseason maybe the option should be there. We can already see the players they have on their (teams from unloaded leagues) teams, and they can already buy players from the loaded leagues. I'd like to hear what other people think about this.

Agreed 100%. No idea why we can't do it (and also, turn OFF a league completely in its offseason as well.. IE: If you started with 8 but want to trim it down to 5 in 10 seasons when you are settled down)

[Veg]

What I mean is - if yuo just add "Generic League Structure A" and then you call it the Ghanaian Premier League - the league needs team names and players with names and statistics. At best, that means finding an array of scouting for that country - which is tough when the game doesn't sell there. At worst, it means acquiring a license.

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, or you're oversimplifying how easy it is to add leagues to the game at a proper standard.

Matt: I've to say that your response here is missing the point. The fact is that a lot of persons wanting this feature, and there is a lot of this people including me knowing that there is a lot of work making it properly. But still there isn't always the need for having the league totally perfect that is important. F.ex It has been made a Tchadian patch, and the creator had only made the teams correct, not added players or staff. Playing with patch was really fun, even if it was a lot of teams without real players.

In my case I just want the possibility to make some of the bigger African leagues, without having to swap away other leagues. If they won't be perfect in therms of staff and players thats ok, because no matter what league that is played in this game in the end it's all newgens anyway.

Anyway having the possibility for the gameplayers to make leagues themself could have an effect that could benefit SI to. Beacause this feature will encourage people to create leagues and release them. Some of them will probably do the whole job adding players and staff missing in the database, and there is a chance that creaters of updates like that could have more knowledge of some countries than the research team at SI do have. So updates based on a league creating module could be a feature were SI an area were SI can recruit researchers to their team that strengtens areas were the research is weak.

I don't know if you have checked the Editors Hideaway, but the discussion about gameplayers being able to add leagues on their own have been going on for quite a while in that forum. In my opinion this is a feature SI should really look into, but unfortunately my opinion doesn't count.

[TMLS]

Matt: I've to say that your response here is missing the point. The fact is that a lot of persons wanting this feature

And a lot who don't see the point. I wonder which is greater?

[aenariel]

So you add the Ghanaian league to this blank default league.

What players are on the teams you add?

Matt, I'm sorry to be harsh, but are you familiar with FM at all? I mean, take a look on the editors forum. People have been replacing leagues for AGES, and it works quite okay. What we're asking here is basically to let us change the format of the existing leagues or/and to add new ones at our will, in our home, using the editor.

Just so you know, whenever you add blank teams to a league, they fill up with regens. Quite playable! I've been doing it since FM07 came out and enjoying it the most I can - limited by whatever the game allows me and allows me not to change. We're just asking SI to let us edit more, by removing some limitations, or to let us add our own content to the game.

I'd also like to point out that your lack of faith in people's modding abilities/will is somewhat disturbing for someone who works for a software company. There are numerous games out there that have immense userbases and hyper-dedicated users just because they can't mod the game to their will. Even FIFA Manager has it!

No licenses are needed whatsoever for user-made content either. Or else you'd be needing a license for the Maltese league I created (replacing Hong Kong) and release on your forums just a month after FM08 came out.

@the ones saying they didn't use new leagues: well, you might not, but some people would. Some people don't even use the patches, yet, some do. It's all a matter of personal will. Let people who want this have their say about it.

Now to kiss some behind: I'd pre-order the game every year if such editing abilities were added to FM.

[aenariel]

even if it was a lot of teams without real players.

I dare say more: I never played FM 08 using REAL players, only game-generated ones. I find the game immensely boring whenever I use real players, and not challenging.

A league with no player data = the game with the real players option ticked off.

Besides, I believe many people willing to mod the game would mod everything, including players. But I already said I'm quite disturbed by the lack of faith in the userbase, so I won't go there anymore.

[HonkyDick]

I can't believe the attitude of some people, if you don't want or need the feature then don't use it. Just because you don't want to use it does not mean it shouldn't be in the game. Why don't we just have the English leagues because they're the most popular and forget about all the other leagues because some people aren't interested in them. I'm not interested in the French league so why is it there?:rolleyes:

I got the point being made and it is a valid point, the whole license argument is stupid, we wouldn't have an editor if you needed licenses to add your own leagues.

It shouldn't be too hard to implement either. When you are setting up your game you could pick the usual English, Italian, Spanish leagues etc. then at the bottom click on custom league. It would then ask which country and how many teams, after that it brings up a list of all the clubs connected to that country for you to pick. Then get you to pick some generic rules for the league, like bench size and subs, relegation(promotion may be harder to implement unless your adding 2 leagues in the same country), amount of games and season start etc. etc.. If it is the only league for the country the relegated team would be replaced with a random team from the same country. The continental qualification should remain the same because there are already teams from these unplayable leagues in the continental comps, but obviously they'd be decided by the new competition and not be random or there on reputation.

If it is a 16 team comp and only 8 teams are there then you would have to make up the clubs in the editor first but making clubs is fairly quick and doesn't crash the game like some made up competitions. Also if you could add leagues easily enough I think some wouldn't mind making up the clubs needed.

The players could be generated like new gens, as well as whatever real players are registered with the clubs already there.

Anyway what I'd like to see when it comes to leagues is the ability to turn them on or off, at least off anyway. I know turning them on mid game would be hard, but I would love to be able to turn them off.

For example I start unemployed and like to start say as low as the English Conference and work my way up. When I get to the Championship or Premier League I don't need L1, L2 and Conference chewing up processing time. I would still like to see them there but as 'view only' not 'playable'. I would die a happy man if this ever was to happen.

[Ter]

It shouldn't be too hard to implement either. When you are setting up your game you could pick the usual English, Italian, Spanish leagues etc. then at the bottom click on custom league. It would then ask which country and how many teams, after that it brings up a list of all the clubs connected to that country for you to pick. Then get you to pick some generic rules for the league, like bench size and subs, relegation(promotion may be harder to implement unless your adding 2 leagues in the same country), amount of games and season start etc. etc.. If it is the only league for the country the relegated team would be replaced with a random team from the same country. The continental qualification should remain the same because there are already teams from these unplayable leagues in the continental comps, but obviously they'd be decided by the new competition and not be random or there on reputation.

I think you might be underestimating how interlinked the current rule groups are. I'm sure a lot of people will have encountered entire leagues disappearing because they have changed something the game is reliant on in the editor

[Her9]

I think you might be underestimating how interlinked the current rule groups are. I'm sure a lot of people will have encountered entire leagues disappearing because they have changed something the game is reliant on in the editor

unfortunately for me this is still not an acceptable answer.

what is the difficulty in making it easier for us to do things that we already do anyway?

people still create their own custom leagues but it is just too damn complicated at the moment.

[Matt ex SEGA]

Astonishing amount of cynicism, chaps, I was only asking a question.

I don't understand the original poster - his post seemed to suggest that if we allowed people to slap in a generic league and call it whatever they wanted - from Maltese 3rd division to Ryman Premier - it was a straightforward process simply relying on some code to deliver a default. My point was that the feature is somewhat valueless unless the content that goes with the league is right, is all. League rules, finances, structure, relation to other leagues (promotion / relegation), depth in the national pyramid, seperate cup competitions - are all complex. If that stuff isn't accurate then surely it doesn't really feel like you're playing in that league, does it? That's without considering the addition of players, staff, kits, badges etc.

I know the community can do it, but simply delivering a white label solution didn't seem that valuable, and delivering that level of customisation is extremely complicated (I'd guess, I'm not a programmer). If it transpires that it is, I stand corrected.

Aenariel - I confess I'm not *that* up to speed on modding the game. I don't play with any mods or additions other than ones provided by SI, and I don't use the editor and haven't since what was probably an unofficial one on an old version of CM. I've played every game SI made since CM2, though, so I understand the context quite clearly.

Oh and Her9 - "SI will never implement this because being owned by SEGA now marketing comes before everything else." - that's just not true. SI completely control the feature set of the game - we leave the development to them. Less pointless speculation, more on-topic posting please.

[Ter]

unfortunately for me this is still not an acceptable answer.

what is the difficulty in making it easier for us to do things that we already do anyway?

people still create their own custom leagues but it is just too damn complicated at the moment.

I would love to be able to edit competitions and add my own. It's something I've always wanted to be able to do.

But it is not an easy thing to do. As I've already said, the rule groups are incredibly complex and interlinked and even removing one team from a division where they are reliant on being can cause things to disappear and even games to crash.

[SeeSo]

i do encourage the idea...if it is implemented a lot of markets will further open for FM than any other European client would think

and Besides, leagues like Egyptian,Moroccan,Tunisian are a lot better to be added than the slovenian,Polish,slovak...all these countries if their teams played with Egyptian top teams or Tunisian

the score will be vastly towards the African sides...means these leagues are much stronger than other weak-european sides

[aenariel]

Astonishing amount of cynicism, chaps, I was only asking a question.

Sorry if I was too harsh there too Matt, it really seemed like you were unfamiliar with the game.

I don't understand the original poster - his post seemed to suggest that if we allowed people to slap in a generic league and call it whatever they wanted - from Maltese 3rd division to Ryman Premier - it was a straightforward process simply relying on some code to deliver a default. My point was that the feature is somewhat valueless unless the content that goes with the league is right, is all. League rules, finances, structure, relation to other leagues (promotion / relegation), depth in the national pyramid, seperate cup competitions - are all complex. If that stuff isn't accurate then surely it doesn't really feel like you're playing in that league, does it? That's without considering the addition of players, staff, kits, badges etc.

Tbe quite honest, yes, it is complicated. It feels somewhat odd playing if not everything is perfect - however, SOME modding capability is better than NOne at all, IMHO.

In the editor forums you can easily see people try to replace leagues similar to the ones that they want in the game - like Malta for Hong Kong, for instance. I replaced Malta with Israel once and it was odd to see Maltese teams getting millions out of TV revenue.

But as I said, some modding capability - giving us the ability to edit these things - is better than none. It's already failry easy to change the players, create teams, add team logos... just not make new leagues or change current ones.

Once again, FIFA Manager achieved this, so I can't see why FM can't.

I know the community can do it, but simply delivering a white label solution didn't seem that valuable, and delivering that level of customisation is extremely complicated (I'd guess, I'm not a programmer). If it transpires that it is, I stand corrected.

I disagree on its value, but then again, I'm a suspect. I feel very inclined to mod games and normally play games that offer such abilities. To be honest I never played FM without editing some stuff on the editor first. If there was no editor, the game would be a lot less valuable to me. So, adding new things we can edit surely WILL make the game more valuable, to us customers who are keen to do it.

Complicated? Yes, I believe it would be. However, it's a matter of thinking what you'd gain from it. IMHO, a lot. If 2 or 3 people buy the game in Nigeria because the nigerian league was modded in by someone, then it's 2-3 customers more for SI. If 3000 buy the game in England because they can play with an amateur team that plays in the field near where they live, it's 3000 more customers to SI. This not saying that it improves how customers perceive you - a company dedicated to the users, that values the content created by them. It works already this way for researching, it would only be opening the door to unofficial researching.

Aenariel - I confess I'm not *that* up to speed on modding the game. I don't play with any mods or additions other than ones provided by SI, and I don't use the editor and haven't since what was probably an unofficial one on an old version of CM. I've played every game SI made since CM2, though, so I understand the context quite clearly.

... that's the reason for your question. I got it now. Sorry if I sounded harsh. Since you seemed like you were dismissing all edited content as unvaluable or of inferior content, I got a bit carried away there - since I specifically create such contents.

No hard feelings, I hope.

Oh and Her9 - "SI will never implement this because being owned by SEGA now marketing comes before everything else." - that's just not true. SI completely control the feature set of the game - we leave the development to them. Less pointless speculation, more on-topic posting please.

Yes, that should go without saying. SI doesn't add these features because it doesn't think it's valuable to the game, or worthy of their time (and I can understand these points, and that's why I want to make you think otherwise, little as my opinion might count!), I got that by now. I sincerely believe it is not some dirty marketing strategy, it wouldn't make sense. In my eyes at least.

[aenariel]

I would love to be able to edit competitions and add my own. It's something I've always wanted to be able to do.

But it is not an easy thing to do. As I've already said, the rule groups are incredibly complex and interlinked and even removing one team from a division where they are reliant on being can cause things to disappear and even games to crash.

Word, so many things are hard-coded even experienced editors sometimes don't understand why the game crashed only after changing a team's name or nation.

[wild_oscar]

One great feature in FML is the ability to create custom leagues and customize several aspects of the league (number of substitutes, prize money, league/cup formats).

I would like to know if users will be given more flexibility in FM 2009 when customizing leagues. This would be interesting when creating european/worldwide superleagues or for tweaking already existing leagues.

The current possibilities when editing leagues is rather limited and hasn't suffered any real improvements over the past several years. It would be a great addition to the next version of the game!

[HonkyDick]

I think you might be underestimating how interlinked the current rule groups are. I'm sure a lot of people will have encountered entire leagues disappearing because they have changed something the game is reliant on in the editor

Yeah, I guess I am, but the leagues disappearing thing is probably why the OP wants something like this put in the game though. It may not be easy but maybe something to look at for the future. Maybe some sort of generic template that the user can't mess up too much, I don't know.

What about my turning leagues on/off idea, I know there'd be plenty of dramas turning them on and I'm not really needing that option myself, but what about changing a lower league back to 'view only' from 'playable'?

[Ter]

What about my turning leagues on/off idea, I know there'd be plenty of dramas turning them on and I'm not really needing that option myself, but what about changing a lower league back to 'view only' from 'playable'?

There are the Detail Levels option where you can set things to minimal detail. Is that not good enough?

[wild_oscar]

Ter, how about the placement of league rules in coding (see my post). Is it still so hard coded (and inflexible) in 2009 as in previous versions of the game?

[HonkyDick]

There are the Detail Levels option where you can set things to minimal detail. Is that not good enough?

It was with my old PC, where I only ran about 5-8 playable leagues. My newer(still not too flash compared to some) PC can run about 15-20 playable with about 10 view only. I always have the detail set to minimal even with the new PC because the more the merrier.

When I got the new PC I just got greedy and wanted as many as I could have. After a while the processing slows obviously and it would be nice to cut loose the leagues that I don't plan on managing in anymore. I still want them at the start because I like to start at the bottom and work my way up and I still want them at least view only so I can track my feeder clubs and/or loaned players.

I know with the amount of leagues I have it probably wouldn't make a huge difference and my PC can certainly handle it anyway, but if it were possible I might be able to add 1 or 2 others. The more leagues the more immersed I feel in the FM world.

This may not be feasible and I'll understand if it never happens but it's worth a try(my asking). It's SI's fault for having so many leagues that I want running, I'd love to have a game where I win something on each continent.

[aenariel]

It was with my old PC, where I only ran about 5-8 playable leagues. My newer(still not too flash compared to some) PC can run about 15-20 playable with about 10 view only. I always have the detail set to minimal even with the new PC because the more the merrier.

When I got the new PC I just got greedy and wanted as many as I could have. After a while the processing slows obviously and it would be nice to cut loose the leagues that I don't plan on managing in anymore. I still want them at the start because I like to start at the bottom and work my way up and I still want them at least view only so I can track my feeder clubs and/or loaned players.

I know with the amount of leagues I have it probably wouldn't make a huge difference and my PC can certainly handle it anyway, but if it were possible I might be able to add 1 or 2 others. The more leagues the more immersed I feel in the FM world.

This may not be feasible and I'll understand if it never happens but it's worth a try(my asking). It's SI's fault for having so many leagues that I want running, I'd love to have a game where I win something on each continent.

The processing slows down because of the amount of players and clubs, not the leagues. Since you've loaded them up when starting the game they can't get out of it later. So your suggestion is not feasible, AFAIK.

[HonkyDick]

The processing slows down because of the amount of players and clubs, not the leagues. Since you've loaded them up when starting the game they can't get out of it later. So your suggestion is not feasible, AFAIK.

I have had the same leagues in different saves with the same size DB, sometimes on view only and other times playable. IIRC the times they've been view only they had far less players in the squad. Also I thought the ME simulated games in playable leagues but when they're view only it didn't run through the match engine, meaning quicker processing on match days.

As I said though it doesn't make too much of a difference now with a newer PC and I first thought of the idea when I had an older PC. Now though they just seem to be hanging there looking useless after I get to the top.

[Asjo]

There is no doubt that this feature will be quite difficult for SI to add. So much sounds like it hardcoded into the game, and that would mean that you would have to make very big changes to accomodate the addition of custom leagues and competitions and link everything differently. I'm sure that it SI had thought of this from the beginning, it would be a lot easier to make everything customizable, but back then making this editor wasn't even an option or priority.

Matt makes the point that a "generic" league won't be of any value as you need all the things that add value to them. To be honest, for the leagues I want to make, I don't care if they resemble reality. If I really want to add a league, the impossible thing is that its there. With the Japanese league, where license issues have prevented SI from adding the league to the game, I could easily create a new league, create the teams and players and define different things to make the league fit into the game in the editor. In the editor that we have now, I would be able to define finances (developing or third world country for the nation, I suppose), I can define the reputation of the league and how I set the clubs will define the attendance and overall state of it all. Now, there are several things I cannot define on the editor; smaller details such as ticket prices and more important mechanisms such as the rules, fixtures and structure. However, what matters to me is that I have a playable league that adds value to the game - suddenly, there is a Japanese league with teams that can develop Japanese players, interact with other clubs ... suddenly, real Japanese teams will compete at the World Club Cup tournaments. It would certainly not be any more work than it's worth. The work wouldn't have to be based on actualy research, but just results found through Google or elsewhere, where you can read about clubs and players.

Now, custimization in great details would be very ambitious, and probably wouldn't be easy to add for FM2010 if SI only start working on it now. SI have often said that they do consider the idea, but find it hard to see when it will be realistic to implement, therefore not being able to promise us the feature anytime soon. However, if they can figure out how to add new leagues without conflicting with the current setup, I think they can hardcore different limited options to allow us to add the leagues we want and enjoy them:

Promotion/regation

One thing we need to be able to do is to define how the leagues are connected - which leagues relegate and promote to which leagues. The problem is that SI would probably have to add a simple form initially, which wouldn't allow for complex leagues. An example:

I would love to add Serie D, for instance, and the teams from Serie D would have to be promoted to Serie C, and the teams from Serie C would have to be relegated to Serie D. Now, already we have a complex situation as Serie D is made up of 9 groups, which means that the game would have to be able to set up something custom to allow relegation and promotion between Serie C2 and Serie D. One thing you could do is that the interface allows the player to select a specific finishing position for a league and link that with promotion for another league and do the same for relegation. Already here, we have a lot of linking. Otherwise, if linking is not possible, which might be the case in the Serie D example, the player should have a chance to randomize it. The same teams are still promoted/relegated, but where they end up will be random, it only has to be in a league at a higher/lower level and the game will just make sure to make the numbers fit.

So, this could mean that we would have to be able to edit the leagues that would already be hardcoded into the game. Therefore, what will suffice is that when you add a league, the releation/promotion from the leagues above or below is automatically changed to a standard which only preserves the number of teams who are promoted/relegated.

League structure

We would need to be able to define simple things such as the number of teams and simple rules of how the league works. This could be standardized to a set of options. For instance:

Number of teams: [number]

Fixtures: Central European / Eastern Asian / South American

Fixture type (cup-wise, based on the above): Full season (stretched out acress the season) / start of season / end-season / off-season

Number of matches between teams (for cups, league would be decided by 'number of teams' and 'fixtures'): [number]

Place decider: Goal difference / head-on matches / goals scored

Yellow cards before ban: [number]

Number of substitutes allowed: [number]

Number of substitions allowed: [number]

Non-EU players allowed: [number]

Work permit: None / strict / lenient

Transfer periods: Add and set dates

If you make a league that is not a division for an already existing one, you have to accept that you cannot link it to cups currently in the game. However, when you make a new cup, you should be able to make the link by simply picking the teams that qualify for the cup.

A had a lot of more things in my head, but other things crave my attention right now. I just thought I'd make things a little more concrete.

However, I'm not sure that SI would ever want to implement this half-heartedly. They would want it to seem professional in being fully customizable (with all options that other leagues posses). You should be able to add your own awards, rules and legal limitations, orginizations, fixed events (meaning things always happen at a particular point; American clubs having to trade free agents at a certain time period is the best example I can come up with), etc. However, that would be too good to be true.

[x3widRacin]

Matt makes the point that a "generic" league won't be of any value as you need all the things that add value to them. To be honest, for the leagues I want to make, I don't care if they resemble reality. If I really want to add a league, the impossible thing is that its there. With the Japanese league, where license issues have prevented SI from adding the league to the game, I could easily create a new league, create the teams and players and define different things to make the league fit into the game in the editor. .... However, what matters to me is that I have a playable league that adds value to the game - suddenly, there is a Japanese league with teams that can develop Japanese players, interact with other clubs ... suddenly, real Japanese teams will compete at the World Club Cup tournaments.

Exactly. I'm really not understanding, at all this argument that a league is worthless without all the bells and whistles. The underlying fundamental is that (we) would like to be able to have a league where we can manage/follow/intereact with the teams from (Country A).

If the format in real life is two groups of 10, but the only way to play that country in game is a large table of 20, who cares? The bottom line is they are playable.

I really have zero comprehension of the argument that it would be better to wait (2-5-10-20) years for the league/game to become big enough that the league is added as hard coded with the perfect structure, as opposed to having the ability to, in the meant time, play it with an imperfect structure.

The fact that leagues are hard coded and rules are sensitive is a good argument for why it would be not be simple to add this feature. But the argument that it would have no value because the leagues would not have the perfect structure comparable to real life is borderline idiotic. We know there is no license for the league, we just want the ability to play something that, as stated, allows a group of teams to compete against each other for the championship of (Country A) without having to mod/hack/destroy (Country B). Cup/Foreign Player/Youth/Signing Rules aside. If they were editible, great, if not who cares, as was said by another user...

In this situation, the ability to have *something* is far more valuable then having *nothing* on the matter.

[aenariel]

In this situation, the ability to have *something* is far more valuable then having *nothing* on the matter.

Spot on. In fact, your point is proven by the Editors forum alone: so many people trying so hard to have an unplayable league running (any of the ones done already) must mean *something*: that people do want to have them, even if they do not work perfectly.

[Matt ex SEGA]

Exactly. I'm really not understanding, at all this argument that a league is worthless without all the bells and whistles. The underlying fundamental is that (we) would like to be able to have a league where we can manage/follow/intereact with the teams from (Country A).

If the format in real life is two groups of 10, but the only way to play that country in game is a large table of 20, who cares? The bottom line is they are playable.

That was my question, really. Thanks for explaining. Seems odd to me which is why I pursued it.

I have no idea if it matters but Ter will likely champion it - probably not for 09 - given that he's read the thread and keen on it himself. If it can be done, its a matter of time before SI do it. They're good like that...

[Villa-Joe]

To be honest, i'm never anyone outside England anyway, it just gets boring!

[Denya]

It would be a great feature. There are many competitions where i would love to play - some lower leagues or champs like Andorra or Malta.

[Ter]

To be honest, i'm never anyone outside England anyway, it just gets boring!

That's a bit of a selfish opinion to have. Not everyone plays in England.

It's great to experience a league you may not know a lot about.

[wild_oscar]

That was my question, really. Thanks for explaining. Seems odd to me which is why I pursued it.

I have no idea if it matters but Ter will likely champion it - probably not for 09 - given that he's read the thread and keen on it himself. If it can be done, its a matter of time before SI do it. They're good like that...

FML has the initial implementation of it - all competitions are customizable.

League structure

We would need to be able to define simple things such as the number of teams and simple rules of how the league works. This could be standardized to a set of options. For instance:

Number of teams: [number]

Fixtures: Central European / Eastern Asian / South American

Fixture type (cup-wise, based on the above): Full season (stretched out acress the season) / start of season / end-season / off-season

Number of matches between teams (for cups, league would be decided by 'number of teams' and 'fixtures'): [number]

Place decider: Goal difference / head-on matches / goals scored

Yellow cards before ban: [number]

Number of substitutes allowed: [number]

Number of substitions allowed: [number]

Non-EU players allowed: [number]

Work permit: None / strict / lenient

Transfer periods: Add and set dates

Add to that list:

Prizes: Money received per victory / final position

And you have it.