Manager reputation not functioning properly anymore

[fabioke]

I just discovered this issue myself. Started unemployed, professional footballer reputation, and was hired by Dresden in the 2 Bundesliga. I have been in charge for over three years, finishing top half each season despite having one of the lowest payrolls in the division. Most of the players in the squad now are my signings. And, surprise!, the vast majority are "struggling to find motivation when the manager has such a low reputation in the game" on a regular basis. Which is absurd.

So I did a little research with FMRTE. Here are the reputations of some of the other 2 Bundesliga managers in sim:

Thomas Doll (St. Pauli): Home 6524, Current 5714, World 4687

Karsten Baumann (Bielefeld): Home 6512, Current 6000, World 3669

Reiner Maurer (Karlsruhe): Home 5625, Current 5060, World 2776

Peter Neururer (Paderborn): Home 5556, Current 4046, World 2948

Heiko Herrlich (Duisburg): Home 6092, Current 4983, World 3742

Holger Stanislawski (Bochum): Home 7154, Current 5611, World 3910

And here's my reputation: Home 7019, Current 5860, World 1975

This rather obviously suggests that newly generated human-controlled managers are being handed inadequate "World" reputation, and that players are reacting to that deficiency even though the other rep stats are fine.

I did a quick test, setting my "World" reputation to 4000 (with no other changes). In the next match, instead of having 3-5 players "having difficulty motivating themselves" because of manager rep, I only had one, and he's the best player on the team (and therefore is the best candidate to legitimately have such a difficulty).

Of course, more extensive testing would be required to nail this down for certain, but it appears likely that this is the root of the problem.

Why is SI hiding? Can we please have an answer on this game breaking issue? I have only advanced for a half season, but I’m getting depressed after every match. Instinctively I check every match to see, if the issue is still there.

And now that there is apparently an adding league bug as well (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/300614-adding-removing-leagues-problem), I’m afraid that I won’t be playing this game until next year. Starting a new game is not an option, because automatic reputation just doesn’t sound right.

[crouchaldinho]

Fabioke, I replied to you in another thread but thought I would also post my experience here.

I've had experience with this motivation issue in my save. I started out with Sunday League rep in Italy managing Giacomense and then Mezzocorona at the lowest level in the league system.

I've since gained a promotion and increased my reputation with some overachieving. At first, it bugged me that the players at Mezzocorona didn't respect me or had trouble motivating themselves to play for me (whatever the text says). It didn't stop me getting promotion with them though.

I've since moved on to manage Perugia where initially I was getting the same lack of respect/motivation issues. I do, however, have an old save with Mezzocorona that I am just loading up to check. I'm wondering if I did get rid of the message by the end of my time there. To be honest, I stopped checking after a while and just didn't take any notice of it.

And the verdict is..... well, yes, I've checked that old save and even at the end of my time there where I had promoted and consolidated the team, I was still having the same kind of message. 'Some members of the squad - particularly [my two best players] - are having trouble motivating themselves when you are their manager'.

At this point, my reputation is regional. The club's reputation is local. So yes, there definitely seems to be a problem here, because I honestly would have thought that the squad would respect me after my time there. I finished mid-table first season, finished 2nd in my second season, then consolidated in mid-table and got the overachievers award in my third season. I was untouchable with the board and also headhunted by Perugia, a much bigger club. Seems weird to me that my players would have found it difficult to motivate themselves for me after the success we had experienced together.

Weird thing is, I just loaded up my Perugia save, and I went to play a new game.... when I go to get my assistant's feedback, I don't have that message! So obviously it does go away eventually! I'm a Sunday League Manager at Perugia.

One of the players who wasn't motivated to play for me at Mezzocorona now plays for me at Perugia. It seems that he doesn't have motivation problems with me at Perugia.

[Sussex Hammer]

I don't think that there is anything wrong here.

Sunday League reputation is for people who are taking over amateur or at best semi-professional clubs.

I always take over a Premier League or Championship Club with Sunday League.

[tomtuck01]

Why is SI hiding? Can we please have an answer on this game breaking issue?

Game breaking? Get back in your box.

It's a minor thing at best, it doesn't you from doing well in the game.

[x42bn6]

Game breaking? Get back in your box.

It's a minor thing at best, it doesn't you from doing well in the game.

Given team-talks are a big part of the game, them not working properly can be considered to be "game-breaking".

[RBKalle]

I find this new twist largely unnecessary and a bit silly as well...

If SI wanted to enforce a "from zero to hero" career path they should have disabled the option to start with any club we want, or eventually gone for a FIFAManager approach where the user can choose "Career Mode" or "Freeplay Mode", depending on which sort of game he's after.

But amping up the influence of Reputation (or lack thereof) on players' reactions is just a cop-out solution to make the game artificially harder, while the realism goes out of the window in the process.

I mean... If the gameworld gives me the chance to walk in at Old Trafford and forcing Sir Alex into retirement, no questions asked, the same gameworld should recognize me as "Good Enough" to land the MUFC job. Of course not with stellar reputation, but with some sort of basic credentials that can allow me to start my job without an unfair disadvantage.

Then if I manage to **** off the key players, can't pick the right team talk and my 2-2-3-3 tactic is a recipe for disaster, it's obvious I'm going to get criticized or even boycotted by the lockerroom and eventually fired.

But I must have a fair chance, which under the current system I don't have anymore.

Otherwise if the key aspect is "realism", if I pick Sunday League reputation my options MUST be limited to clubs with matching reputation and expectations.

But even there, Joe Nobody and John Bananafoot have no right to complain much about their new manager not being a former international...

[jayahr]

tbf I'm always in favour of ways in which you can customize your game and the past experience setting is in the end nothing but that.

If you start at ManU, it's entirely up to you to choose whether you'll set your past experience to the max to very low. In the latter case you should have authority issues - after all you chose to have them yourself.

So that's fine with me.

However as stated above some time ago, the issue which the OP is facing (and on which the little reearch created by Vroomfondel may have shed some light indeed) is clearly a sign for a buggy implementation when it comes to a lowish choice of past experience.

[tomtuck01]

Given team-talks are a big part of the game, them not working properly can be considered to be "game-breaking".

I started unemployed with Sunday League rep, and was England manager 5 seasons into the save. My journey has taken me via Seoul, Bristol Rovers, Boston United, and Swansea City befor England came knocking.

Like i said, there is a bit on an issue, but it is not big enough to be even remotely "game breaking". If it was, then success wouldn't be achievable.

[crouchaldinho]

Am I the only one who kind of likes the added difficulty?

I actually found my start in Italy as a Sunday League manager to be quite challenging due to this and I enjoyed it more as a result. Before, I would have quickly been able to assemble a team to push on very quickly. On this version of FM, it took me longer to attain the success I wanted and I'm guessing the motivation 'issue' was a factor in this. I still managed to be successful though even with this added difficulty.

I guess I agree with the thought that it isn't very well balanced just yet though. I mean, the idea in principle isn't terrible. If I'm Sunday League and taking over my first club, it sounds reasonable that I would have to work to gain the respect of the dressing room over time. Does anyone else agree with that basic idea?

[BiggusD]

Am I the only one who kind of likes the added difficulty?

I actually found my start in Italy as a Sunday League manager to be quite challenging due to this and I enjoyed it more as a result. Before, I would have quickly been able to assemble a team to push on very quickly. On this version of FM, it took me longer to attain the success I wanted and I'm guessing the motivation 'issue' was a factor in this. I still managed to be successful though even with this added difficulty.

I guess I agree with the thought that it isn't very well balanced just yet though. I mean, the idea in principle isn't terrible. If I'm Sunday League and taking over my first club, it sounds reasonable that I would have to work to gain the respect of the dressing room over time. Does anyone else agree with that basic idea?

Yes the basic idea is ok... if you play a career save. When you play a club-building save and have no plans of ever managing another club (in that save), these reputation figures are completely and utterly pointless. I have no desire to to build up MY reputation in the game at all. In such a scenario, this so-called "difficulty setting" is effectively removing 1/3rd of the game from me (Team building/tactics/morale managment) for as long as it takes me to win a major title.

[x42bn6]

I started unemployed with Sunday League rep, and was England manager 5 seasons into the save. My journey has taken me via Seoul, Bristol Rovers, Boston United, and Swansea City befor England came knocking.

Like i said, there is a bit on an issue, but it is not big enough to be even remotely "game breaking". If it was, then success wouldn't be achievable.

"Game-breaking" is subjective. Not being able to apply team-talks properly can be considered "game-breaking" for others.

[tomtuck01]

"Game-breaking" is subjective. Not being able to apply team-talks properly can be considered "game-breaking" for others.

No, it's not subjectove. Either the game is broken or it isn't. In this case it isn't.

Back in your box you go please.

[CityAndColour]

If an issue is enough to prevent a person from wanting to play the game, then it's 'game-breaking' for them. Hence subjective.

[tomtuck01]

If an issue is enough to prevent a person from wanting to play the game, then it's 'game-breaking' for them. Hence subjective.

I don't see how this very slight issue can prevent anyone from playing the game.

I think most of you think team talks influence things much more than they actually do.

[x42bn6]

I don't see how this very slight issue can prevent anyone from playing the game.

I think most of you think team talks influence things much more than they actually do.

It doesn't prevent them from playing the game, but it can stop someone from playing the game as they would like, and they may consider the workaround (if one exists!) to be (too) painful. This can be considered "game-breaking".

For example, if the game took 24 real hours to simulate one set of fixtures on the world's fastest gaming PC, it would be considered "game-breaking" by most people, despite the fact that the game is still playable (you just have to be very patient).

Everyone has a different tolerance level for bugs - and it is clear that you have a higher tolerance than others. You consider it to be a "slight issue" - others find it rather depressing.

[Karnage94]

I've noticed this issue but never really thought a lot of it. Never thought it would bother people so much. A lot of players for me with Tenerife have the lack of motivation line appear but it doesn't stop them from performing.

[Coentrao]

I just think that you should gain the respect faster, i mean if you take one of the weakest teams on the second tier to promotion and finish on the top half of the table for a couple of seasons, it should be enough to get the respect from everyone.

It gets easier overtime though even if you don't win anything, most new signings with low reputation will normally listen to you and if you take the time to praise/criticize players so you end up on the favoured personnel list they also start listening to you.

Can be really frustrating with loaned players though.. most of them will always switch off and look uninterested.

[fabioke]

@Mack4life, please read the whole story or maybe some of my replies before you post something, I took over the weakest amateur team in the Belgian Third Division, they were predicted 18th and I reached the 7th place. A jury decided that I'm good enough to be selected as Manager of the year. I kept overachieving, even reaching the 4th place in my third season (Sadly I lost in the playoffs).

Ath is an amateur club, so the players, especially the lesser gods have never reached my status. As shown on a print screen, my reputation has already gone up from local to national, this bug is hardcoded or at least badly coded.

This “reputation thingy” has a huge impact on the game, I’ve tried to make a new manager with international reputation and I destroyed the league with the same tactic and players.

@Crouchaldinho: I’m happy that the game is harder, but not due to an artificial barrier. I want to be outplayed by the AI. Believe me, I have even watched full matches and the difference between Sunday League and International footballer is incredible; it seems that they lose their capacity to play. It’s like Spain would become Andorra, just by being managed by a manager with a Sunday League rep, even though he has the same geniality as the best coach in the world.

Miles had once explained in a Podcast that motivation was one of the most important aspects of the game, it could make or break your team. Results are affected (even though i'm happy with mine), but the worst thing is to see them play on the pitch like unmotivated spoiled brats

@Tomtuck: This year’s major selling points.

1. Adding Leagues (Broken!)

2. New teamtalks (Very broken!)

I have played the demo (everything was fine), I bought the game (everything was fine), and after a forced update, my whole save was destroyed. If it was not gamebreaking, I would not be complaining on this thread. This year’s Football manager has one positive note, it has improved my English.

For the people that don’t understand, a small story:

A repossession gorilla knocked on the door: “Hey Tom, we are the repo team, our job is to remove 1 wheel from your Toyota Sega."

“Why?” Tom asked, visibly shaken and confused.

The armed repo Guy smacked Tom and took the wheel. Once Tom regained consciousness, he called the customer service and they explained him why this action was taken: “Tom, 30 percent of the customers said that it was not challenging enough to ride with the Toyota Sega, so we have decided to remove 1 wheel from every customer's car.”

[crouchaldinho]

I have to correct one of my statements above because I am still getting the motivational issue messages at Perugia despite earlier claiming that they had disappeared.

Fabioke, I see PaulC responded to this thread and that you also made a bug thread regarding this issue. Did you ever get any kind of response or information on this issue from someone at SI?

[fabioke]

Thank you for your feedback, Crouchaldinho. I'm very happy that there are others interested in resolving this issue, or at least trying to find the mechanics behind it.

I succeeded after many hours to upload my save to the FTP server; I even spent several hours to update both threads. People suggested me to make simultaneously, a thread in the bugs forum, but nothing helped. I'm quite sure that this is issue isn’t going to be fixed in this version. My biggest fear is that SI is going to follow this route for a few versions, destroying my favorite game eventually.

Below you will see my thread in the bugs forum:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/294277-Manager-reputation-not-functioning-properly-anymore

I know that my attitude is illogical, nobody of SI cares about this issue, why should I. I could just play some Minecraft or Fifa 12 and wait until this issue is sorted out. But my youth sentiment is giving me the fuel to improve this game; it’s one of the few games that I’m playing due to time restrictions. This is not the most fun game, but if everything works correctly it’s the most rewarding.

So SI, if you fix this bug, I will buy FM 2013. Get of your privileged asses and get to work please. There is a thread were you have stated that you will hire one person extra; steam generated more income, now it’s time to give back to the community instead of penalizing the customers who are helping to pay your salary for the last 13 years.

The best marketing is your happy fans that are evangelizing the non-believers on an everyday basis.

[crouchaldinho]

I feel your frustration Fabioke. After producing a bug report and uploading to the FTP, it's disappointing that you didn't get any kind of response from SI.

[crouchaldinho]

I've now won my first trophy at Perugia. We've won the Serie C cup.

Still my players aren't motivated to play for me. Starting to wonder if this will always be the case.

I've been in the game for six years now and got one promotion and a cup to my name, plus a couple of seasons of overachieving. You'd think that the players would respect my decent record in football management.

My reputation is regional and so is the club's. At my last club, Mezzocorona, my reputation was regional and the club's was local but the players still weren't motivated to play for me even though I had a higher rep than most of them towards the end of my time there!

[fabioke]

Judging on SI's Silence, the answer is no. I have the feeling that nobody at SI is actually playing the game. The issue is that the game becomes incredibly hard, but you have no idea if you would get the deserved recognition one day.

I'm very happy with your update, as I cannot motivate myself to play that savegame anymore without knowing if the message will eventually fade away. According to my test it's not just a message, but it affects your game on many levels. International footballer is definitely too easy, maybe automatic is the most honest Manager Rep?

I hope that you keep us Posted Crouchaldinho, as your determination stat seems higher then mine. It's interesting too see if you will succeed to defeat this issue. I'm also quite sure that a lot of threads regarding the cheating AI, are all related to Manager rep issue.

[Coentrao]

I've now won my first trophy at Perugia. We've won the Serie C cup.

Still my players aren't motivated to play for me. Starting to wonder if this will always be the case.

I've been in the game for six years now and got one promotion and a cup to my name, plus a couple of seasons of overachieving. You'd think that the players would respect my decent record in football management.

My reputation is regional and so is the club's. At my last club, Mezzocorona, my reputation was regional and the club's was local but the players still weren't motivated to play for me even though I had a higher rep than most of them towards the end of my time there!

It's weird then, maybe it needs a top tier trophy after all..

[crouchaldinho]

Well, I've also won promotion with my Perugia team. We'll be playing in Serie B next season.

Will promotion as well as the Serie C cup help me out with this motivation issue?

I'm now national reputation. I think my team are regional and I'm pretty sure most of the players are too. Surely they have to stop this nonsense now?

I have to say that I'll be annoyed if I still get this message next season after my success this season. I'm six years in and I think I've proven myself to be a good manager for this level, so you'd hope that the players would start respecting me properly!

[fabioke]

Crouchaldinho, I was in the same situation. I was national and they were regional but the error message stayed. Now I honestly believe that you have achieved much more. I'm curious to find out what will happen in the Serie B. Maybe you won't be respected even after winning the Champions League with them.

[crouchaldinho]

As an update to this thread, I can say that the message did finally go away at Perugia after I had won that cup and won promotion to Serie B.

However, after half a season in Serie B with Perugia, I got offered a job at Brescia and accepted. Now I'm back to square one with the motivation issue.

I am now at a 'national' reputation club but my manager has now also reached 'national' reputation too. So I should be a good fit for this club. Yet the same old message is appearing to indicate that the players are no motivated to play for me.

I don't really understand why this changed, to be honest. On previous FMs, this typically happened when you were a low reputation manager and you took charge of a high reputation club. I can see the sense in that but I can't see the sense in the way it works now.

[Keioel]

Playing Alma Juventus Fano in the lowest playable Italian league my lack of reputation was really only a consistent problem for two players as after winning a few matches most of the players stopped caring. However, one of them still had issues about halfway through the 2nd season but now it's the third we're in Series B and we've won everything we've competed for so it's no longer a problem. In other words, yes your lack of reputation will hurt you if you're not winning, but if you are nothing matters. Much like real life I've noticed Still can't believe we won the Supercoppa against Juventus.

[bleventozturk]

Yes the basic idea is ok... if you play a career save. When you play a club-building save and have no plans of ever managing another club (in that save), these reputation figures are completely and utterly pointless. I have no desire to to build up MY reputation in the game at all. In such a scenario, this so-called "difficulty setting" is effectively removing 1/3rd of the game from me (Team building/tactics/morale managment) for as long as it takes me to win a major title.

Just chose a higher starting reputation then. I don't understand what y'all are complaining about. Why do you want to start with Sunday League reputation so badly and have no problem in motivating the players??? The game allows you to start with higher reputation where you won't have a problem to motivate the players, just do so...

[BiggusD]

Just chose a higher starting reputation then. I don't understand what y'all are complaining about. Why do you want to start with Sunday League reputation so badly and have no problem in motivating the players??? The game allows you to start with higher reputation where you won't have a problem to motivate the players, just do so...

International starting reputation isn't high enough either. Unlike what you say, in most of the big clubs you will have a problem motivating players coming from an international career, which makes sense, really. Except that this way of forcing difficulty takes away from the enjoyment of the game, since many of the game's features are useless for a season or two.

The idea that you start the game as a manager with no previous management experience is only relevant if you want to build up a career from the ground up. Most FM-players I know couldn't care less about that. I have no interest in these "roleplaying" elements of the game at all.

[crouchaldinho]

Just chose a higher starting reputation then. I don't understand what y'all are complaining about. Why do you want to start with Sunday League reputation so badly and have no problem in motivating the players??? The game allows you to start with higher reputation where you won't have a problem to motivate the players, just do so...

Because I want to start at the very bottom of the football ladder and work my way up. That's how I play the game and always have.

[bleventozturk]

Because I want to start at the very bottom of the football ladder and work my way up. That's how I play the game and always have.

I consider starting reputation as an artificial thing. You can chose higher reputation and still start from the very bottom, with a non-league team, right? Don't get me wrong, I agree with you guys that the reputation should be more dynamic, so if you are succesfull in your first season, it should cause a significant bump in your reputation, significant enough to earn your players' respect, because 1 year is actually a long time in real life. It is certainly enough to earn your players' respect, if you bring success to the club, if the team overperforms.

I understand this is not working properly in the game, but starting with a higher reputation, but in a small team, is a workaround that you can use. Don't worry too much about your reputation value, you would still be starting from the bottom if you chose such a team.

[crouchaldinho]

Bleventozturk, I shouldn't have to do that in order to get the game to work properly!

I understand that you are offering it up as a 'work around' but I don't feel right selecting anything other than Sunday League and this is for practical reasons as much as anything else.

How, for example, will I know when I have 'earned' the right to manage a bigger side if I start with a higher reputation? I want to start from the bottom and work my way up. I don't want to be offered a big job straight away. And I don't want to have to impose artificial restrictions on myself to manage it.

I also don't want the advantage of starting with a higher reputation in terms of being able to sign better players or whatever. When I start in Non-League football, for example, I want to be a Non-League reputation manager!

I hate this 'quite a few players are finding it difficult to motivate themselves when you are the manager' message when it is coming after several successful seasons at a club. It used to be the case that this would typically happen when you were a low reputation manager and you took charge of a high reputation club. Suddenly on FM12, this has changed, and the new system doesn't make any logical sense to me. Clearly it isn't working as intended.

Having said that, it does not seem to impact in a hugely significant way, in my experience, and I'm still playing my lower league save in Italy as a result. It's just frustrating to have this issue, as I'm sure you can understand, and I don't understand why it was changed, what has gone wrong, why there has been no information forthcoming from SI and so on and so forth!

[marty78]

Your own players respect for you shouold be based only on how you treat them and how results are going. Only other clubs or players you want to sign should be judging your rep. A manager can gain respect of players without being a big name in RL. At the very beginning it is fine if the players are unsure and need to be won over but that should not take years but mere months.

My current save I was expected to achieve a top half finish but was playing well and was in the top two all season and with 6 games to go. At that stage nerves seem to creep in as promotion to the premier league was in sight, fair enough. I decided that it would be best to not be too expectant and to give players belief with pressure lifting team talks. The result was players having no reaction and still being nervous or switching off and looking disinterested and when I said for the fans they got stressed. Even after overchieving all season and leading the team to the brink of promotion and the league it still says most players struggling to be motivated playing for me. That is with automatic rep and I feel for the guys with sunday league rep, that must be hell.

[milnerpoint]

Could it be a case of that part of the feedback not working properly rather than you not actually being respected by your team? If your doing well, then i would suggest it could be the former rather than the latter.

[Neil Brock]

The thing is, this does happen in real life even with managers with high reputation. Look at AVB and Roy Hodgson at Liverpool - I'd absolutely say there were certain players within the camp who were not motivated to play for these managers even though both had pretty fantastic reputations coming in. With all new managerial positions there will be a period of uncertainty as the players get used to the manager and he will have to win them over. If this is going on for too long despite success then the issue is likely more serious - either way I'm pretty certain we're looking into it.

[x42bn6]

The thing is, this does happen in real life even with managers with high reputation. Look at AVB and Roy Hodgson at Liverpool - I'd absolutely say there were certain players within the camp who were not motivated to play for these managers even though both had pretty fantastic reputations coming in. With all new managerial positions there will be a period of uncertainty as the players get used to the manager and he will have to win them over. If this is going on for too long despite success then the issue is likely more serious - either way I'm pretty certain we're looking into it.

Shouldn't this be down to their, well, "Motivation" attribute, though? And in both Villas-Boas's case and Hodgson's case, possibly a lack of man-management skills?

I think using reputation is double-counting motivation in a lot of ways.

[crouchaldinho]

The thing is, this does happen in real life even with managers with high reputation. Look at AVB and Roy Hodgson at Liverpool - I'd absolutely say there were certain players within the camp who were not motivated to play for these managers even though both had pretty fantastic reputations coming in. With all new managerial positions there will be a period of uncertainty as the players get used to the manager and he will have to win them over. If this is going on for too long despite success then the issue is likely more serious - either way I'm pretty certain we're looking into it.

Hi Neil. I agree with the point that you're making here but it isn't very well balanced just yet in FM12 in my opinion.

I mean, the idea in principle makes sense to me. If I'm a Sunday League manager and taking over my first club, it sounds reasonable that I would have to work to gain the respect of the dressing room initially. That basic idea is fine.

Where it falls down is when I've been at a club for three or four seasons, had good success, even have a higher reputation than the club and the players, and yet still they aren't motivated to play for me!

We can assume that both Roy and AVB would have won over the dressing room, surely, after some sustained success over a couple of seasons?

[marty78]

The thing is, this does happen in real life even with managers with high reputation. Look at AVB and Roy Hodgson at Liverpool - I'd absolutely say there were certain players within the camp who were not motivated to play for these managers even though both had pretty fantastic reputations coming in. With all new managerial positions there will be a period of uncertainty as the players get used to the manager and he will have to win them over. If this is going on for too long despite success then the issue is likely more serious - either way I'm pretty certain we're looking into it.

It does indeed but, as I said in my previous post, playing well and getting results will normally win the respect of players(fans & board also) pretty quickly in the same way getting poor performances and results leads to the losing the dressing quite often. I also think the lower down the leagues you are the quicker that respect should be earned.

@crouchaldinho - I don't think it should take seasons of success. One season of success should earn your players respect, after all it is you making them successful. Even half a season of exceptional results should give them faith you are right man and get them behind you.

[Neil Brock]

Shouldn't this be down to their, well, "Motivation" attribute, though? And in both Villas-Boas's case and Hodgson's case, possibly a lack of man-management skills?

I think using reputation is double-counting motivation in a lot of ways.

I'd disagree with that to an extent - I'd say some managers could be fantastic motivators, likewise fantastic man-management but their reputation may well be too low for the 'big' players. Look at the success Roy has had at near enough every other club except Liverpool. I personally don't see a problem with there being some overlap between these areas. As said though, this is an area which the coders will be looking into for any future version and all opinions will be taken into account.

[crouchaldinho]

It does indeed but, as I said in my previous post, playing well and getting results will normally win the respect of players(fans & board also) pretty quickly in the same way getting poor performances and results leads to the losing the dressing quite often. I also think the lower down the leagues you are the quicker that respect should be earned.

@crouchaldinho - I don't think it should take seasons of success. One season of success should earn your players respect, after all it is you making them successful. Even half a season of exceptional results should give them faith you are right man and get them behind you.

That's true Marty. I do agree.

[BiggusD]

The thing is, this does happen in real life even with managers with high reputation. Look at AVB and Roy Hodgson at Liverpool - I'd absolutely say there were certain players within the camp who were not motivated to play for these managers even though both had pretty fantastic reputations coming in. With all new managerial positions there will be a period of uncertainty as the players get used to the manager and he will have to win them over. If this is going on for too long despite success then the issue is likely more serious - either way I'm pretty certain we're looking into it.

Hi Neil. I agree with the point that you're making here but it isn't very well balanced just yet in FM12 in my opinion.

I mean, the idea in principle makes sense to me. If I'm a Sunday League manager and taking over my first club, it sounds reasonable that I would have to work to gain the respect of the dressing room initially. That basic idea is fine.

Where it falls down is when I've been at a club for three or four seasons, had good success, even have a higher reputation than the club and the players, and yet still they aren't motivated to play for me!

We can assume that both Roy and AVB would have won over the dressing room, surely, after some sustained success over a couple of seasons?

It does indeed but, as I said in my previous post, playing well and getting results will normally win the respect of players(fans & board also) pretty quickly in the same way getting poor performances and results leads to the losing the dressing quite often. I also think the lower down the leagues you are the quicker that respect should be earned.

@crouchaldinho - I don't think it should take seasons of success. One season of success should earn your players respect, after all it is you making them successful. Even half a season of exceptional results should give them faith you are right man and get them behind you.

Yes I agree with all of you. Neil has a point - low reputation managers should have problems motivating high reputation players. Marty and Crouchaldinho both make sense, though - it shouldn't be as slow to improve as it is now. However, the increased reputation influences much more than just player motivation, so I don't think just tweaking the rate of reputation increase would be a good idea.

I think the solution is to add a third layer of reputation. In addition to World and Home reputation, there should be a Club reputation! It is possible to be a very popular manager in the club without being recognized as such in the nation or globally. Club reputation could rise quickly if the fans and the players are satisfied with things, or, in the case of Hodgson, a high national or world reputation wouldn't help much if the club and its fans hate him (because he managed rival clubs before or they hated his style of football).

[marty78]

Club reputation would be a great idea. Your own players are likely respect and acknowledge your abilty before it spreads elsewhere.

[milnerpoint]

Yeah club rep is a fantastic idea!

[x42bn6]

I'd disagree with that to an extent - I'd say some managers could be fantastic motivators, likewise fantastic man-management but their reputation may well be too low for the 'big' players. Look at the success Roy has had at near enough every other club except Liverpool. I personally don't see a problem with there being some overlap between these areas. As said though, this is an area which the coders will be looking into for any future version and all opinions will be taken into account.

So motivation is essentially ignored at the highest level?

[lonestar190]

To be honest I think the entire reputation system needs scrapping and rebuilding from the ground up. Currently, the game fails to take into account over achieving and underachieving when calculating rep. You get an increase or decrease in rep based on each game's result, but nothing based on your overall performance unless you win a trophy or cup. This is for the most part completely the opposite of real life.

[fabioke]

Dear Neill, I'm glad that somebody from SI took the courage to reply. But let's not forget the real issue. I have picked an amateur Team, so they have got less success then me in their careers. And even the weaker players feel that they are too good for me.

I can understand that the teams that never heard of me are not excited when they hear my name. I could even understand that it would be more difficult to attract players. But my own team and my own division (They have treated me with respect, as I have received an award) should treat me with respect.

Three years of overachieving, is a long time. They were not good enough to stay in the third division when I arrived, now they are a respectable team in the Belgian third division. In real life they would build a statue for me. It is even worse that it influences the way they play on the pitch, creating an artificial difficulty level, for those that are seeking for realism it’s a blow in our faces.

I don’t understand that everybody uses the big teams as an example; there are enough Sunday league footballers that had successes outside of the UK. They were respected within the first season. Three year’s is a very long time, if you work somewhere for three year’s especially in a football club, then you’re already somebody experienced and respected in your club/work.

So I need to say that I’m very interested in the Club reputation, as it would solve this issue once and for all.

[Liquid Cool]

Yes I agree with all of you. Neil has a point - low reputation managers should have problems motivating high reputation players. Marty and Crouchaldinho both make sense, though - it shouldn't be as slow to improve as it is now. However, the increased reputation influences much more than just player motivation, so I don't think just tweaking the rate of reputation increase would be a good idea.

I think the solution is to add a third layer of reputation. In addition to World and Home reputation, there should be a Club reputation! It is possible to be a very popular manager in the club without being recognized as such in the nation or globally. Club reputation could rise quickly if the fans and the players are satisfied with things, or, in the case of Hodgson, a high national or world reputation wouldn't help much if the club and its fans hate him (because he managed rival clubs before or they hated his style of football).

That's a great idea. In my current game, David Moyes has just taken over at Liverpool (after Rijkaard got about a season, Mourinho got about 8 months before him and I got about the same before that; brutal club to manage) - which would never happen in the real world.

If there was some kind of club reputation added to the game, it could have the added effect of preventing those kinds of appointments happening, if the board looked at that variable before hiring a manager.

[fabioke]

I make this post because this version of FM is ridiculous, and I seriously believe that SI is losing all their credibility that they have built the last years.

I have started a new save choosing the automatic starting rep. Started again in the Belgium third division, this time with Mouscron Peruwelz. I won the league and guess what happens in the second season? The whole squad is not motivated to play for me anymore, even the players that won the third division with me last year.

Shame on you SI, this is becoming the worst version ever. Ghost goals in important matches, Adding/removing leagues destroying the game. Choosing Sunday league rep destroys your game and guess what: even winning competitions destroy the game if you chose automatic.

PS: Apparently my best players weren't even motivated last year. I was predicted 7th in the Belgian third division and I won the league, receiving the second place in the third division Manager award.

As I have not added any leagues in this save, I will continue this save and I want to experience myself if this message will ever go away.

[Guest]

I had a Worldclass reputation after winning trophys with Chelsea,,,,I left and took over the England job and my reputation dropped to continental, making getting a top job harder,,,why?