Manager reputation not functioning properly anymore

[crouchaldinho]

Well, I can offer an update on my career. I'm now at Hellas Verona and still have the same motivation issue.

We finished 2nd in Serie B this season, so will be in Serie A next year. Will they finally be motivated to play for me after our promotion? I'm not holding my breath!

I, too, want to see if the message will ever go away for good. I planned on this save being a career save but if I get the same message every time I move club - regardless of my previous achievements - I'll quickly grow too frustrated to play on!

Right now, I'm enjoying it at Verona and will play for a bit longer. I want to see if I can keep them up in Serie A. I will, however, be really frustrated if the players still don't get motivated to play for me after our success together. I'll keep you updated Fabioke.

[Niebiescy]

I had a Worldclass reputation after winning trophys with Chelsea,,,,I left and took over the England job and my reputation dropped to continental, making getting a top job harder,,,why?

Probably because if you did that IRL nobody outside of the UK will follow what the England manager is upto but everyone in Europe knows which clubs are succesful at continental level and in the major national leagues

[fabioke]

Well, I can offer an update on my career. I'm now at Hellas Verona and still have the same motivation issue.

We finished 2nd in Serie B this season, so will be in Serie A next year. Will they finally be motivated to play for me after our promotion? I'm not holding my breath!

I, too, want to see if the message will ever go away for good. I planned on this save being a career save but if I get the same message every time I move club - regardless of my previous achievements - I'll quickly grow too frustrated to play on!

Right now, I'm enjoying it at Verona and will play for a bit longer. I want to see if I can keep them up in Serie A. I will, however, be really frustrated if the players still don't get motivated to play for me after our success together. I'll keep you updated Fabioke.

Thank you very much, crouchaldinho. The worst thing is that nobody from SI is willing to explain the mechanics behind it even though they have changed this without any choice for the customer after paying 55 €.The only visual indicator for us is the reputation bar, so it's like completely unrealistic in every sense. So even though I won the league, my players are rolling their eyes every time I walk in the dressing room?

I honestly think that you have already achieved quite a bit and it's not fair that you're still treated like a noob. Can you post an overview of your career?

[crouchaldinho]

You can read about my career in this thread - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/294376-Lessons-in-Calcio-Crouchy-Facci-Sognare!?p=7464254

Career Overview:

Season    Team			League                   Position    Achievements/outcomes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2011/12   A.C. Giacomense	Serie C2/A	         18th        (Took over after 18 games) Relegated
2012/13   A.C. Mezzocorona	Serie C2/B	         9th         
2013/14   A.C. Mezzocorona	Serie C2/B	         2nd         Promoted!
2014/15   A.C. Mezzocorona	Serie C1/A	         8th         Overachievers!
2015/16   A.C. Perugia Calcio	Serie C1/B	         13th        (Took over after 13 games)
2016/17   A.C. Perugia Calcio	Serie C1/B	         2nd         Promoted via play-offs! Serie C Cup winners!
2017/18   A.C. Perugia Calcio	Serie B	         	 N/A         (Left after 16 games with the team in 18th place)
2017/18   Brescia Calcio	Serie B	         	 10th        (Joined after 16 games with the team in 14th place)
2018/19   Brescia Calcio	Serie B	         	 N/A	     (Resigned after 34 games with the team in 13th place)
2019/20   Hellas Verona F.C.	Serie B	         	 2nd	     (Joined after 15 games, team in 14th place) - Promoted!

My A.C. Giacomense Record (2011 - 2012 [133 days]):

P 	W 	D 	L 	F	A	Win % 		Competitions Won / Achievements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19	5	7	7	17	23	26%		None

My A.C. Mezzocorona Record (2012 - 2015 [1085 days]):

P 	W 	D 	L 	F	A	Win % 		Competitions Won / Achievements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
143	57	43	43	179	153	39%		Lega Pro Seconda Divisione Girone B Runners-up

My A.C. Perugia Calcio Record (2015 - 2017 [739 days]):

P 	W 	D 	L 	F	A	Win % 		Competitions Won / Achievements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
91	43	22	26	148 	110	47%		Coppa Italia di Lega Pro Winners!
							Lega Pro Prima Divisione Runners-up
							Lega Pro Prima Divisione Play-off Winners!

My Brescia Calcio Record (2017 - 2019 [497 days]):

P 	W 	D 	L 	F	A	Win % 		Competitions Won / Achievements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
62	24	19	19 	82	76	38%		

My Hellas Verona F.C. Record (2019 - Present [200 days]):

P 	W 	D 	L 	F	A	Win % 		Competitions Won / Achievements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27	18	4	5 	49	16	66%		Serie B Runners-up

[fabioke]

You can read about my career in this thread - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/294376-Lessons-in-Calcio-Crouchy-Facci-Sognare!?p=7464254

Career Overview:

Season    Team			League                   Position    Achievements/outcomes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2011/12   A.C. Giacomense	Serie C2/A	         18th        (Took over after 18 games) Relegated
2012/13   A.C. Mezzocorona	Serie C2/B	         9th         
2013/14   A.C. Mezzocorona	Serie C2/B	         2nd         Promoted!
2014/15   A.C. Mezzocorona	Serie C1/A	         8th         Overachievers!
2015/16   A.C. Perugia Calcio	Serie C1/B	         13th        (Took over after 13 games)
2016/17   A.C. Perugia Calcio	Serie C1/B	         2nd         Promoted via play-offs! Serie C Cup winners!
2017/18   A.C. Perugia Calcio	Serie B	         	 N/A         (Left after 16 games with the team in 18th place)
2017/18   Brescia Calcio	Serie B	         	 10th        (Joined after 16 games with the team in 14th place)
2018/19   Brescia Calcio	Serie B	         	 N/A	     (Resigned after 34 games with the team in 13th place)
2019/20   Hellas Verona F.C.	Serie B	         	 2nd	     (Joined after 15 games, team in 14th place) - Promoted!

My A.C. Giacomense Record (2011 - 2012 [133 days]):

P 	W 	D 	L 	F	A	Win % 		Competitions Won / Achievements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19	5	7	7	17	23	26%		None

My A.C. Mezzocorona Record (2012 - 2015 [1085 days]):

P 	W 	D 	L 	F	A	Win % 		Competitions Won / Achievements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
143	57	43	43	179	153	39%		Lega Pro Seconda Divisione Girone B Runners-up

My A.C. Perugia Calcio Record (2015 - 2017 [739 days]):

P 	W 	D 	L 	F	A	Win % 		Competitions Won / Achievements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
91	43	22	26	148 	110	47%		Coppa Italia di Lega Pro Winners!
							Lega Pro Prima Divisione Runners-up
							Lega Pro Prima Divisione Play-off Winners!

My Brescia Calcio Record (2017 - 2019 [497 days]):

P 	W 	D 	L 	F	A	Win % 		Competitions Won / Achievements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
62	24	19	19 	82	76	38%		

My Hellas Verona F.C. Record (2019 - Present [200 days]):

P 	W 	D 	L 	F	A	Win % 		Competitions Won / Achievements
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27	18	4	5 	49	16	66%		Serie B Runners-up

I started to read your thread and I absolutely love it, maybe it’s because I have Italian origins, but I was already hooked with your title. Seeing if this message goes away will be a lot more fun from now on.

I also love the Minecraft link, I consider Mojang and SI as the most community driven developers even though I’m a little bit disappointed in SI right now. But as in a good marriage, we are bound to each other for better or worse.

[crouchaldinho]

I started to read your thread and I absolutely love it, maybe it’s because I have Italian origins, but I was already hooked with your title. Seeing if this message goes away will be a lot more fun from now on.

Glad you liked my thread Fabioke.

In my career, I'm planning on staying on at Hellas Verona for a fairly long time now that I have arrived there. Hopefully if I can build them into a good Serie A side, I'll get a significant reputation boost and hopefully lose this motivation issue forever. We'll have to wait and see.

I also love the Minecraft link, I consider Mojang and SI as the most community driven developers even though I’m a little bit disappointed in SI right now. But as in a good marriage, we are bound to each other for better or worse.

Yes, I'm addicted to both Minecraft and FM. I occasionally play one or two other games but Minecraft and FM are the only shortcuts on my desktop and they are really my two obsessions when it comes to computer games.

Although they are completely different games, part of the reason I love them both is similar. It's the openness and the emphasis on using your imagination that continues to keep me hooked on both games.

[crouchaldinho]

So I'm still having the same motivational message/issues with my Verona team. We've had a promotion from Serie B to Serie A and then I guided them to safety in the Italian top flight last season.

Still no love from my players as I enter season three at Hellas Verona (this is year 11 in my overall career, I think).

[fabioke]

So I'm still having the same motivational message/issues with my Verona team. We've had a promotion from Serie B to Serie A and then I guided them to safety in the Italian top flight last season.

Still no love from my players as I enter season three at Hellas Verona (this is year 11 in my overall career, I think).

It's sad, because SI’s silence is deafening. I just returned from Como and when I saw the Brescia Stadium, I remembered how much you liked it there. .

PS: So if I understand correctly, Newcastle wants to appoint you as a manager but even after your success and your long career in Italy, the Hellas Verona team, isn't motivated to play for you.

[BiggusD]

So I'm still having the same motivational message/issues with my Verona team. We've had a promotion from Serie B to Serie A and then I guided them to safety in the Italian top flight last season.

Still no love from my players as I enter season three at Hellas Verona (this is year 11 in my overall career, I think).

It's sad, because SI’s silence is deafening. I just returned from Como and when I saw the Brescia Stadium, I remembered how much you liked it there. .

PS: So if I understand correctly, Newcastle wants to appoint you as a manager but even after your success and your long career in Italy, the Hellas Verona team, isn't motivated to play for you.

Crouchinaldo, are you Italian in the game?

[crouchaldinho]

No, I'm English. At this point, I speak fluent Italian though and I have been in the country for 11 years or so, so shouldn't be a factor.

[BiggusD]

No, I'm English. At this point, I speak fluent Italian though and I have been in the country for 11 years or so, so shouldn't be a factor.

Yeah, but your National reputation in Italy must have started abysmally low 11 years ago. Maybe it still hasn't caught up?

[crouchaldinho]

Yeah, but your National reputation in Italy must have started abysmally low 11 years ago. Maybe it still hasn't caught up?

Good point, that could indeed be part of the problem, although surely it should have caught up by now after all those years of pretty decent success?

But hang on a minute, surely it was good enough for me to get a job in Italy in the first place? And it was then good enough for me to move on to bigger clubs like Brescia and Hellas Verona! So it doesn't really make sense.

Now I think about it, I'm pretty sure Fabioke was of Belgian nationality and managing in Belgium whilst he was experiencing this issue, so I think it's unlikely to be the factor that is giving us these motivational issues.

[fabioke]

Crouchaldinho, you’re completely correct. I have in both saves the Belgian Nationality with a second Italian nationality. My goal is to simulate real life as much as possible. I’m getting offers from bigger clubs, but my players still treat me worse than a call centre agent.

[bleventozturk]

I'm not sure nationality matters. I finally progressed a little bit in my first career game in FM2012, and this is the story so far:

Note: I am a Turkish manager and have second nationality as German. Started as 'former professional player', so not a terribly low starting reputation I guess.

First season: Finished 12th with Leeds United, got sacked

Second season: Was unemployed until November, then got the Samsunspor job, a smaller team in Turkish top division. They were battling relegation, and I managed to escape relegation, finishing 14th out of 18 (last three gets relegated)

Third season: Finished 8th

Fourth season: Half of the season is over, currently at 4th spot

All these 3 seasons the clubs balance was in red, I couldn't make any transfers with major fee. Instead I strengthened the roster with good quality (3-4*) free players. Wage budget is very low, I had to sell 2-3 of my best developing players since I couldn't meet their wage demands. In spite of all these difficulties, within only 3 seasons I have improved the team so much. The club management is loving me, my job security is 'untouchable'.

Then I remembered this thread and wanted to check on it, and guess what, yes the players find it hard to motivate themselves to play under my managament. WTF???

If a manager has this success in real life the players would be all respecting him, except maybe 2-3 spoiled ones. So something is definitely wrong here in the game. Nevertheless, I don't think it has a significant effect on your success. Report says they don't respect me, however I don't have any difficulties getting those good reactions to my team talks, and I definitely don't have any problems in getting good results. So I guess I will just ignore this problem, it is probably almost cosmetic.

[fabioke]

I'm not sure nationality matters. I finally progressed a little bit in my first career game in FM2012, and this is the story so far:

Note: I am a Turkish manager and have second nationality as German. Started as 'former professional player', so not a terribly low starting reputation I guess.

First season: Finished 12th with Leeds United, got sacked

Second season: Was unemployed until November, then got the Samsunspor job, a smaller team in Turkish top division. They were battling relegation, and I managed to escape relegation, finishing 14th out of 18 (last three gets relegated)

Third season: Finished 8th

Fourth season: Half of the season is over, currently at 4th spot

All these 3 seasons the clubs balance was in red, I couldn't make any transfers with major fee. Instead I strengthened the roster with good quality (3-4*) free players. Wage budget is very low, I had to sell 2-3 of my best developing players since I couldn't meet their wage demands. In spite of all these difficulties, within only 3 seasons I have improved the team so much. The club management is loving me, my job security is 'untouchable'.

Then I remembered this thread and wanted to check on it, and guess what, yes the players find it hard to motivate themselves to play under my managament. WTF???

If a manager has this success in real life the players would be all respecting him, except maybe 2-3 spoiled ones. So something is definitely wrong here in the game. Nevertheless, I don't think it has a significant effect on your success. Report says they don't respect me, however I don't have any difficulties getting those good reactions to my team talks, and I definitely don't have any problems in getting good results. So I guess I will just ignore this problem, it is probably almost cosmetic.

Can you become a player's favourite personnel when they are not motivated to play for you?

[bleventozturk]

Can you become a player's favourite personnel when they are not motivated to play for you?

I'm not sure. But a lot of features in FM games are either cosmetic, or have very little, negligible effects, and most of them don't function the way they are supposed to do anyway, so I tend to ignore them. For me a management game is all about reasonable transfers, player development, and realistic application of tactics and results (e.g., ME). And FM2012 has these features at acceptable levels and therefore the game is enjoyable. It would be nice if all these bells and whistles work though, would make it a richer game.

[fabioke]

I'm not sure. But a lot of features in FM games are either cosmetic, or have very little, negligible effects, and most of them don't function the way they are supposed to do anyway, so I tend to ignore them. For me a management game is all about reasonable transfers, player development, and realistic application of tactics and results (e.g., ME). And FM2012 has these features at acceptable levels and therefore the game is enjoyable. It would be nice if all these bells and whistles work though, would make it a richer game.

I hope that your statement is not correct, because if these features are cosmetic, then we are all misled by SI. Like in real life there needs to be some butterfly effect with those little features. Especially with something as important like the reputation system.

[fabioke]

There are some exciting evolutions in my save which can finally explain if the motivation bug goes away or not.

First season with Mouscron-Peruwelz in Belgium 3rd Division:

Predicted: 7th

Achieved: League Champions, 2nd place Manager of the year award and a decent cup run

Issue status: Players are still not motivated to play for me.

Second season with Mouscron-Peruwelz in the Belgium 2nd Division:

Predicted: 17th

Achieved: 2nd place (3 points difference with the champions), 2nd place in the promotion play-off, 2nd place Manager of the year award (Strange), but i've won the Belgian cup!

Status: Coming soon

This means that i'm going to enter the Europa league despite still staying in the Belgian 2nd divsion. Winning the Belgian cup with a second division team is incredible in Belgium. If new arrivals are still not motivated to play for me then we can ensure that there is a genuine hardcoded issue.

[DamianJMcGrath]

I've been reading this thread and I agree with fabioke and crouchaldinho. Starting from the bottom of football's pyramid and working my way up is always the challenge I love and after one or two spectacular seasons, I'm always slightly disappointed by the lack of interest from other clubs, and the lack of progress for my own reputation (I'm also slightly disappointed that other teams don't suddenly all start coming in for my players after a big season - such as Charlie Adam to Liverpool, or some Porto players to Chelsea after their Champions League win, or Ajax's players to other clubs after their European win). Well, not disappointed, as it's good to keep them, but the sudden increase in interest would make me feel like I'm progressing the club!

Anyway, back to reputation........plenty of managers have seen a big increase in reputation after one or two big seasons - even Ian Holloway's reputation increased after getting Blackpool promoted and then relegated - his reputation survived the relegation! Some slightly deluded people were even mentioning him as an England manager hopeful. Brendan Rodgers reputation exploded at Swansea, and I bet his players loved playing for him. AVB's and Mourinho's reputation jumped hugely after just one impressive season - and I bet Porto's players (and then Chelsea's) loved playing for Mourinho. In the FM world, this level of reputation and loyalty would take 10 years to achieve!

Dario Gradi's reputation at Crewe was huge (club reputation only) without having a big national reputation, so perhaps he's a good example of someone with high club reputation that FM should implement. Paul Ince did well at MK Dons in a reasonably short period of time so Blackburn took a chance on him, and some of his players liked him so much that when he went back to get them, they wanted to join him.

Roberto di Matteo had done very little at Chelsea before winning the Champions League, but his reputation is high enough that all the Chelsea players wanted to keep him on. Yes, admittedly, he was a former pro, so in the FM language, he'd not exactly be a Sunday League footballer, but the fact remains that winning titles and cups should result in a sudden significant reputation increase - hell, even finishing 17th with a team like Swansea/Blackpool might be even to boost your image!

Basically, in FM, if you start low down the leagues, it should be tricky to get noticed....BUT....if you do well, have some great seasons, and especially if you win the league after being predicted 18th, then it should have a significant effect, and you should start to notice more player loyalty, and much more interest in you as a manager.

[jayahr]

Tbh one could evade the issue by some bit by starting with a professional footballer reputation. Never had any such issues when doing that.

I understand that, especially when starting unemployed or down the ranks, there is some extra incentive to playing the game in a realistic way with a rock bottom starting reputation. And usually I would do the same.

But then again, while I'm sure Crouchy has lots of fans on here, he would still, not even in the Serie C, ever be appointed as manager somewhere in semi-professional football (assuming you have no rl badges), so the whole game has a very unrealistic starting point. If then on top there's a bug which punishes you unrealistically I actually prefer choosing a higher starting rep. Saves me from the unfair hassle and while it makes it easier to attract interest from good other clubs, it still remains my choice and responsibility to choose my clubs in accordance with what I would consider a fair and realistic career move with a lower starting rep in my mind (if you get what I mean).

[crouchaldinho]

Tbh one could evade the issue by some bit by starting with a professional footballer reputation. Never had any such issues when doing that.

A few people have offered this up as a 'work around' but I, for one, don't feel right selecting anything other than Sunday League and this is for practical reasons as much as anything else.

How, for example, will I know when I have 'earned' the right to manage a bigger side if I start with a higher reputation? I want to start from the bottom and work my way up. I don't want to be offered a big job straight away. And I don't want to have to impose artificial restrictions on myself to manage it.

I also don't want the advantage of starting with a higher reputation in terms of being able to sign better players or whatever. When I start in Non-League football, for example, I want to be a Non-League reputation manager!

I understand that, especially when starting unemployed or down the ranks, there is some extra incentive to playing the game in a realistic way with a rock bottom starting reputation. And usually I would do the same.

But then again, while I'm sure Crouchy has lots of fans on here, he would still, not even in the Serie C, ever be appointed as manager somewhere in semi-professional football (assuming you have no rl badges), so the whole game has a very unrealistic starting point.

I hope you won't take offence but that's really an invalid point. As soon as you start up a new game, you're 'role playing' as a football manager. Real life goes out of the window and is completely invalid really. I want to role play as a manager starting out at the very bottom of the football ladder in order to try to work my way up. That's how I play the game and always have.

As I've said before, the whole 'motivation issue' idea in principle makes sense to me. If I'm a 'Sunday League manager' in FM terms and taking over my first club, it sounds reasonable that I would have to work to gain the respect of the dressing room initially. That basic idea is fine.

Where it falls down is when I've been at a club for three or four seasons, had good success, even have a higher reputation than the club and the players, and yet still they aren't motivated to play for me! That's a problem with the game that needs addressing as far as I am concerned.

If then on top there's a bug which punishes you unrealistically I actually prefer choosing a higher starting rep. Saves me from the unfair hassle and while it makes it easier to attract interest from good other clubs, it still remains my choice and responsibility to choose my clubs in accordance with what I would consider a fair and realistic career move with a lower starting rep in my mind (if you get what I mean).

As I said above, I shouldn't have to do this and it also would not feel right doing this. It's a bit like playing an RPG where you get to decide when you level up! Or a platform game where you get to decide when you play the next level! I know, silly examples, but basically I want to feel as if I am earning the right as if I am making my name in football and getting chances because of my achievements and not because I've decided that I can now move to a bigger club. In addition to this, there are also a bunch of mechanics in the game that work around reputation and would, for me, spoil the game.

[x42bn6]

I'm not really sure if a former professional footballer would command more respect, anyway. After all, a lot of former footballers have failed as managers at the top level (i.e. Ince, Adams). Sure, the footballers might take to him as "one of the lads" "who's done it all before", but do you really want your players to treat you as a friend, or their boss?

[jayahr]

I'm not trying to say that this is a 100 percent equivalent workaround and I'm aware of its deficits. If I feel mistreated by the game it just drives me nuts at some point. To me it's just making a choice for the lesser evil and I take no offense if somebody else thinks that the alternative option is just that.

For me another thing which comes into the equation is my impatience. I tend to start with the best intentions, but as I don't get a lot of playing time, a 5 year development takes me months in real time and at some point during that spell I want progress and that's when all the self-restrictions are put aside in favour of a more successful career at higher levels. Obviously that reduces the benefits of starting low rep as well.

For instance, I took over a club in the 2. Bundesliga with pro experience selected (I know you would not do either), the club started at level 4, entered the playable leagues (div 3) in year 3 and won a back to back promotion, then I took over. Good youth set-up, but a team which was nowhere near good enough to compete in that league. Fast forward 18 months. Made 4m in transfer profits, finished 5th in first season and now in 2nd place with the best team of the league at the lowest salary budget of the league. At this point in time irl the big fish would be after me, but now even with the better starting point there are only offers from clubs in the bottom 4 of the same league. Yes, more potential in the long run, but I would certainly not prefer that to my much deserved promotion to the Bundesliga where hopefully the history of my reign shall repeat...