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FM2012 English Pyramid level 14 with revamped youth system (in progress)

Golden eagles

By Golden eagles,
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postman123

postman123

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My apologies. I uploaded an older untested version of my NORTH file: here is the new link http://www.mediafire.com/?crb9ru67192q4xj

It's interesting that a lot of people follow my line of thinking. What we really need now is someone who grinds down for a week and adds all missing leagues, teams, stadiums and cups (two per county at least, next to the league cups). Once we have a good complete national database and structure, splitting it in three is only an hour work.

As an indication, here are the leagues missing from the pyramid as per Wikipedia (maybe I missed one or two):

11

West Riding County Amateur Football League Premier Division - 16 clubs

12

Aldershot & District League Senior Division - 12 clubs

Portsmouth Saturday Football League Premier Division - 12 clubs

Teesside Football League Division One - 12 clubs

West Riding County Amateur Football League Division One - 14 clubs

13

Aldershot & District League Division One - 10 clubs

Andover and District Saturday Football League - 13 clubs

Mid-Essex League Premier Division - 11 clubs

Oxfordshire Senior Football League Division Two

Portsmouth Saturday Football League Division One - 9 clubs

Teesside Football League Division Two - 14 clubs

West Riding County Amateur Football League Division Two - 11 clubs

14

Aldershot & District League Division Two - 10 clubs

Basingstoke and District Football League Premier Division - 11 clubs

Craven and District League Premier Division - 11 clubs

Cirencester and District League Division One - 10 clubs

Essex Business Houses Football League Premier Division - 10 clubs

Furness Premier League Premier Division - 12 clubs

Halifax and District League Premier Division - 12 clubs

Huddersfield and District Association Football League Division One - 12 clubs

Kingston and District Football League Premier Division - 9 clubs

Mid-Essex League Division One - 12 clubs

North Berks Football League Division Four East 13 clubs

North & Mid-Herts Football League Division One Mid - 11 clubs

North & Mid-Herts Football League Division One North - 11 clubs

Oxfordshire Senior Football League Division Three

Portsmouth Saturday Football League Division Two - 11 clubs

Redhill and District Football League Premier Division - 11 clubs

Southampton Saturday Football League Senior Division One - 11 clubs

Southend Borough Combination Division One - 12 clubs

Spen Valley and District Football League Premier Division - 10 clubs

Wakefield and District League Premier Division - 12 clubs

West Riding County Amateur Football League Division Three

Yorkshire Old Boys League Senior Division A - 11 clubs

can you fix this database

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grff

grff

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I am testing it now......seems ok to me

I'm hoping it'll be quite speedy from being split down into three sections. Only concern could be the 45 cup competitions that are included. Could get messy...hopefully not though.

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dustShadowX

dustShadowX

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I'm on editor with dustShadow's North file, and all youth teams still have 1000 reps and 10000 attends as well in the Puma's, Premier's Youth Leagues, althout he removed several youth competitions. I thought that this was modified... lolol

My file is only a proof of concept. If it's decided to leave a small number of youth competitions in, then it's no great work to edit the reps and attends. If the U18 isn't in competition those parameters don't seem to matter. I organised a U18 friendly somewhere down at Level 11 and only 20 people attended despite the 10000 figures in the editor.

@Grff: County Cups don't matter much for processing time as they don't add new players and teams and only very few matches. Adding a couple dozen cups probably has the same affect on game performance then adding a single league.

@Gason: the size of the database doesn't matter for game speed. After you've started a new game, speed is determined by the number of ACTIVE teams and players and the number of matches played each week. Teams outside of active leagues with only greyed-out players don't add strain to the system, except when playing the FA Vase or so. It's only a pickle to load in the editor.

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kenneth1976

kenneth1976

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I would like to add my 2 cents to the discussion. There's a lot of blood, sweat and tears in this database. Unfortunately it's a bit rough around the edges: two dozen leagues missing (West Riding County, Aldershot & District, Teesside,...); missing reserve teams; no county cups; an unfortunate youth setup; errors in the stadium parameters and youth teams;...

The problem is that fixing all these issues won't improve the playability, due to the database being so friggin large. Some prefer to remove the lower levels (12, 13, 14), but that's a bit a shame given we have all the data available.

My solution is to split the nation in three (North, South and Isthmian) starting at Level 9. So the North version no longer contains leagues and cups from South and Isthmian branches. Together with removing most of the youth competition, this allows to play at Level 14 at a very reasonable pace. It also creates space to add county cups and (in the future) Levels 15 and lower. I've used the same approach for my Belgian 8-level tree and I've had positive feedback on it.

Here's a first test of the North version (so all leagues and cups from 9 and lower from the South and Isthmian branches have been de-activated). http://www.mediafire.com/?crb9ru67192q4xj

- removed most of the youth competition (this makes fixing the rep and attendance figures for the U18 teams redundant)

- fixed the infrastructure parameters so all auto-generated players now have very low CA/PA stats

- added reserve teams where needed

- added a few county cups (Manchester, Lancaster) to test

If there are people who want to pursue this line of thought, please contact me. I don't have the time and resources to fix it all myself.

This is a great idea Shadow! It really runs pretty fast now! Very playable.

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sheeshy

sheeshy

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Shadow, that's a great idea and the Northern file runs very very quickly. For me, a northerner, perfection. I only ever pay attention to the northern paths up the pyramid, unless my side gets a Southern team in the Vase etc.

Still a few level 14 wonderkid players here and there, but that could be down to some odd values in the training or youth setup, a lot of large negative numbers are in there.

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phnompenhandy

phnompenhandy

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DustShadowX my man!!!!!

Put your file into the editor to see what club I get a feeling for and there she is! - Philosophers United in the Newcastle Corinthian League Div 1 - Level 14, rep of 2. So sweet. Their Facebook really gives a feel of where it's at:

We are looking for new players. I've heard 5 of our squad are training elsewhere and haven't had the decency to tell me.
Everyone to pay an extra 50p cover the cost of washing the kit. Whoever takes the kit gets the pot of 50p's.

Challenge! Only records I can find are from 2008-09 season.

Minor Cup - knocked out first round 2-12.

League - finished on 0 points with a goal difference of 16-144.

This is just SO Monty Python!

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Sideshow Robbie Earle

Sideshow Robbie Earle

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Sounds like the Philosophers haven't changed much since I played against them when I was at Uni. I remember scoring the only goal against them in a 1-0 win for Garnet (we weren't much good either!) - a low-skidding 25-yarder into the opposite corner. I think the 'keeper had wandered off for a fag.

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sheeshy

sheeshy

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Complete waste of time, this will never get sorted, the fact that GE hasnt come back to the thread suggests that he knows this aswell!!!

Bye then!

do you think it is worth making a good career save from the original level 14 database

and how many seasons have you completed

Coming up to end of season 1 with Blyth Isabella. Should be on for a league and cup double.

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lionel messi

lionel messi

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level 14 is pointless really as probably all the reserve teams are missing, some leagues only have 5 teams in them and only 8 league games a season.

i have striped it down to level 11 and altered the league and club reputatations as they are very high, i have removed the youth leagues, i have removed the isle wight league as it is not level 11, i just need to add the west riding league in at level 11 and a few more alterations and will be good to go.

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postman123

postman123

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level 14 is pointless really as probably all the reserve teams are missing, some leagues only have 5 teams in them and only 8 league games a season.

i have striped it down to level 11 and altered the league and club reputatations as they are very high, i have removed the youth leagues, i have removed the isle wight league as it is not level 11, i just need to add the west riding league in at level 11 and a few more alterations and will be good to go.

how long loinel do you think it will take mate

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FCUtdWill

FCUtdWill

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level 14 is pointless really as probably all the reserve teams are missing, some leagues only have 5 teams in them and only 8 league games a season.

i have striped it down to level 11 and altered the league and club reputatations as they are very high, i have removed the youth leagues, i have removed the isle wight league as it is not level 11, i just need to add the west riding league in at level 11 and a few more alterations and will be good to go.

There's a lot more to removing the Isle of Wight leagues and adding the West Riding League at Level 11.

The pyramid that Golden Eagles used was last season's and is very different to the proper pyramid which is on Wikipedia. But that doesn't include the Hampshire League 2004 at Level 12 to name one league missing.

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sheeshy

sheeshy

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is that with the original db, also how good are the players

No, not the original, the players are much more realistic, once I set all the new teams to have 1s in the training and youth section.

level 14 is pointless really as probably all the reserve teams are missing, some leagues only have 5 teams in them and only 8 league games a season.

i have striped it down to level 11 and altered the league and club reputatations as they are very high, i have removed the youth leagues, i have removed the isle wight league as it is not level 11, i just need to add the west riding league in at level 11 and a few more alterations and will be good to go.

The one I am using, from Shadow, has the reserve teams in some leagues.

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lionel messi

lionel messi

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it will still have the cups, but they have been striped down as well. had to remove the teams from level 12-14.

i also may have to rebuild the fa vase too as i think it was using teams from level 12 and below, fa trophy might need improving if you want all the qualifying rounds in, east midlands league at level 10 needs to be added in too.

promotion/relegation could do with a bit of altering, it could be ok after all that is done unless i find some other problems.

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lionel messi

lionel messi

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There's a lot more to removing the Isle of Wight leagues and adding the West Riding League at Level 11.

The pyramid that Golden Eagles used was last season's and is very different to the proper pyramid which is on Wikipedia. But that doesn't include the Hampshire League 2004 at Level 12 to name one league missing.

yes i know about that league, i have done the full english structure on a spreadsheet, think it is quite up to date.

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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Good luck with this guys. I hope someone gets it working as well as it can be since GE put so much hard work into it. Personally I'm going to go with Gason's Level 11 which will hopefully be finished next week (I played his L10 and it was very good). I agree with postman and messi that Level 11 is probably the best cut-off point as below that it can get messy and slow the game down too much to be playable.

I think this is a lesson learned for next years editors. Don't be too ambitious with the depth, most PC's can't handle it, and most importantly don't do something of this size as a lone project - working in a team would be far more productive and quicker imho :thup:

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grff

grff

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Good luck with this guys. I hope someone gets it working as well as it can be since GE put so much hard work into it. Personally I'm going to go with Gason's Level 11 which will hopefully be finished next week (I played his L10 and it was very good). I agree with postman and messi that Level 11 is probably the best cut-off point as below that it can get messy and slow the game down too much to be playable.

I think this is a lesson learned for next years editors. Don't be too ambitious with the depth, most PC's can't handle it, and most importantly don't do something of this size as a lone project - working in a team would be far more productive and quicker imho :thup:

I couldn't agree more, Erimus.

I think Golden eagles' ambition and creation were top notch when it came to using the editor, but a little naive in terms of how the finished edit would perform in the actual game. I'm all for depth of detail that GE has gone to but it kinda answers the question as to why SI never have attempted to replicate the lower levels.

Its a bit weird that GE hasn't posted since his release, especially since he was viewing the thread last night. Maybe frustration or disappointment at the situation. Still, huge respect for the guy for his efforts.

Below is the link for the edit I did on GE's database. Level 11, with realistic player stats and attendance. Albeit no county cups or revamped youth.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21215104/GE's+english+pyramid+2.00+stripped+down.dbc

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dustShadowX

dustShadowX

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When Lionel has sent me his Excel file, I'll modify the pyramid where needed (without adding missing leagues for now) and release a North, South and Isthmian version.

I'll add the reserve teams where necessary and maybe a few county cups and fix the coaching and youth parameters.

That way there will be a perfectly playable (but not perfect) version for all teams down to 14. Then people can start enjoying GE's massive work. We can take it from there.

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8SZAD

8SZAD

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When Lionel has sent me his Excel file, I'll modify the pyramid where needed (without adding missing leagues for now) and release a North, South and Isthmian version.

I'll add the reserve teams where necessary and maybe a few county cups and fix the coaching and youth parameters.

That way there will be a perfectly playable (but not perfect) version for all teams down to 14. Then people can start enjoying GE's massive work. We can take it from there.

Good to hear...keep going.... your doing a superb job....cant wait to get playing

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grff

grff

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When Lionel has sent me his Excel file, I'll modify the pyramid where needed (without adding missing leagues for now) and release a North, South and Isthmian version.

I'll add the reserve teams where necessary and maybe a few county cups and fix the coaching and youth parameters.

That way there will be a perfectly playable (but not perfect) version for all teams down to 14. Then people can start enjoying GE's massive work. We can take it from there.

I can do some editing on the attendances if you are interested. Let me know.

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EnglandsNo2

EnglandsNo2

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I couldn't agree more, Erimus.

I think Golden eagles' ambition and creation were top notch when it came to using the editor, but a little naive in terms of how the finished edit would perform in the actual game. I'm all for depth of detail that GE has gone to but it kinda answers the question as to why SI never have attempted to replicate the lower levels.

Its a bit weird that GE hasn't posted since his release, especially since he was viewing the thread last night. Maybe frustration or disappointment at the situation. Still, huge respect for the guy for his efforts.

Below is the link for the edit I did on GE's database. Level 11, with realistic player stats and attendance. Albeit no county cups or revamped youth.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21215104/GE's+english+pyramid+2.00+stripped+down.dbc

just powered up the above database and there are Prem clubs in the fa cup preliminary rounds.

This keeps happening to me every database I use that goes below the default on the game. Is it the DB or my fault? how can i rectify this so that the FA Cup has it's normal structure otherwise small clubs getting gate receipts from prem clubs is going to massively unbalance the game

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phnompenhandy

phnompenhandy

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I'm all for a series of options for lower leagues; personally I'm with dustShadowX;s regional idea. By going down to Level 14 in one region and stopping at c. Level 10 in the other 2 regions, the size of the file and complexity is no more than Level 11 across the board; thus, enabling us to start very very low as I mentioned in my last post.

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grff

grff

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just powered up the above database and there are Prem clubs in the fa cup preliminary rounds.

This keeps happening to me every database I use that goes below the default on the game. Is it the DB or my fault? how can i rectify this so that the FA Cup has it's normal structure otherwise small clubs getting gate receipts from prem clubs is going to massively unbalance the game

Are you setting the game up with all levels loaded? The issue normally occurs when you're using a level 10 or 11 database, but only selecting to start a game at level 8 or 9. You must load all levels.

Also make sure you only have one change file selected, otherwise a file conflict will occur.

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