Valve confirms Steam security breach

[Blaupunkt]

IF you are concerned then the best steps you can take are to log in to STEAM ASAP and change your password, if you have the same password for the email address you used then change that as well, please note that you should not really be using an identical password for multiple things anyway, then after you have done this make sure STEAM GUARD is activated VIA the STEAM settings.

The fact that Valve have also stated hashed and salted passwords and encrypted credit card information means the attacks have very little chance of ever getting any of this information, i know some on here will jump on the "very little chance" part of my statement, i suggest these people go do a little research then they might understand what this means.

[legend_killer82]

Congratulations for forcing me to have that Steam on my computer to play FM2012. Now who knows who have my datas, credit card and so for everyone of us, thousand people who just wants to play your game. Not to mention the million problems it gives Steam to play FM, with the many times to re-install, re-download it and errors.

Like always the only ones who get disadvantages from this "method" not really piracy since they hacked it just a little bit slower(they made it of course, you really had any doubt?) but normal users and honest people who buy the game and just want to play and enjoy it without all this bothering.

GG

[greenone]

I was told on more than one occasion to put a tin foil hat on for not buying fm12 due to steam, am I allowed to take it off now?

[Da Mart]

Reading this makes me feel I made the right decision not to buy FM anymore, as long as I'm forced to use Steam to be able to play it.

[Joga]

If you own PS3 or XBOX360 and you are connected to online, you might want sell them since they are potential to be hacked. Only way you can completely secure your personal information, is to cut your internet cable.

[philly_flyer10]

Reading this makes me feel I made the right decision not to buy FM anymore, as long as I'm forced to use Steam to be able to play it.

Same here, yet another reason to hate steam. as for decrypting the passwords, there are dedicated programs to do it and it can easily be done.

Sadly I bet steam only has driven more people to piracy than away from it and these people get to play it safely and hassle free.

[legend_killer82]

Same here, yet another reason to hate steam. as for decrypting the passwords, there are dedicated programs to do it and it can easily be done.

Sadly I bet steam only has driven more people to piracy than away from it and these people get to play it safely and hassle free.

QUOTE

we honest buyers are the only ones punished by this

[Wakers]

I would just like to point out to Eugene that I did mention anything that uses an online service is open to being hacked. He thought this was absurd. So HA!

Anywho - Can anyone find out how to remove credit card info from Steam?

[x42bn6]

The fact that Valve have also stated hashed and salted passwords and encrypted credit card information means the attacks have very little chance of ever getting any of this information, i know some on here will jump on the "very little chance" part of my statement, i suggest these people go do a little research then they might understand what this means.

Not necessarily true - if your password is relatively weak, then it doesn't matter if it is salted and hashed, as processors nowadays - especially GPUs - can crack a weak, salted and hashed password in minutes.

Here's a list of old GPUs: http://www.golubev.com/blog/?p=35. They can compute around 200 million SHA-1 hashes per minute. Now imagine a group of script kiddies, possibly a whole botnet, churning away at these passwords. Then imagine modern-day GPUs.

In addition, it begs several questions on whether the hashing and salting scheme is known, and whether the attacks have been silently happening for a period of time prior to this incident but nobody has found out until now - in which case the hackers may have been at work for days, weeks or possibly months.

[Wakers]

Not necessarily true - if your password is relatively weak, then it doesn't matter if it is salted and hashed, as processors nowadays - especially GPUs - can crack a weak, salted and hashed password in minutes.

Here's a list of old GPUs: http://www.golubev.com/blog/?p=35. They can compute around 200 million SHA-1 hashes per minute. Now imagine a group of script kiddies, possibly a whole botnet, churning away at these passwords. Then imagine modern-day GPUs.

In addition, it begs several questions on whether the hashing and salting scheme is known, and whether the attacks have been silently happening for a period of time prior to this incident but nobody has found out until now - in which case the hackers may have been at work for days, weeks or possibly months.

If the last part were true, then Steam would have seen a sudden rise in the number of fraudulent purchases, and they would have twigged. So I doubt it.

[x42bn6]

If the last part were true, then Steam would have seen a sudden rise in the number of fraudulent purchases, and they would have twigged. So I doubt it.

Only if they could crack password/credit card details by that time.

It is entirely possible that an attacker has simply been downloading/cracking data over time while trying to get more information about the system, without actually defacing anything. Given it took them days to perform forensic analysis, it is entirely possible that they don't actually have strong monitoring to prevent this.

[milnerpoint]

Does anyone know a rough idea of the number of people directly affected by the PSN hack earlier in the year? Did anyone here experience any issues with their credit card or have any problems with their details being stolen?

Im guess im lucky i dont use credit cards online since i had my own issues a few years ago, so none of my private details are held on steam, or anywhere really. My password for steam is pretty good and my password for paypal is better, im quite confident ill be ok. Hopefully others are the same.

[anagain]

To be fair I have an account with Sony Online Entertainment who were hit along with the big Sony fiasco. There were many reports that an awful lot of information was taken and even their games were shut down until security was tightened. Nothing problematic has happened to me since that event.

I have an account here and Sega was hit, or at least something forcing the closure of this very forum. Nothing untoward since.

I'm not overly worried because I'm consciencous of my safety online. As long as you are careful then you'll hopefully avoid any foul play.

This certainly won't stop me using Steam or any other online services. Why let hackers ruin your life?

[Joga]

Does anyone know a rough idea of the number of people directly affected by the PSN hack earlier in the year? Did anyone here experience any issues with their credit card or have any problems with their details being stolen?

Im guess im lucky i dont use credit cards online since i had my own issues a few years ago, so none of my private details are held on steam, or anywhere really. My password for steam is pretty good and my password for paypal is better, im quite confident ill be ok. Hopefully others are the same.

I think nobody doesn't know exactly how many if affected directly, but in theory all the PSN users were compromised that means about 70 million worldwide.

[x42bn6]

Does anyone know a rough idea of the number of people directly affected by the PSN hack earlier in the year? Did anyone here experience any issues with their credit card or have any problems with their details being stolen?

77 million were affected.

Sony claimed to the US House of Representatives that there was no evidence of credit card fraud as a result of the hack, but there are several news reports claiming otherwise (i.e. http://www.pcworld.com/article/226775/playstation_network_users_reporting_credit_card_fraud.html).

[anagain]

Only if they could crack password/credit card details by that time.

It is entirely possible that an attacker has simply been downloading/cracking data over time while trying to get more information about the system, without actually defacing anything. Given it took them days to perform forensic analysis, it is entirely possible that they don't actually have strong monitoring to prevent this.

There are an awful lot of maybes and possiblys in that synopsis. I think maybe you don't know or possibly you haven't a clue.

Why do we need to over analyse this? The message from Gabe shows that Valve are on the case and they have taken precautions by taking the forums down. There's such a spate of hacking attempts in the last year that I doubt anyone is immune from it.

Yes I'm a known fan of Steam, but I don't see the benefit to looking in to this with a fine toothed comb. That's Valve's job and they appear to be on to it. Change your passwords, check your accounts and be vigilant. It's same as you should be doing anyway.

[x42bn6]

There are an awful lot of maybes and possiblys in that synopsis. I think maybe you don't know or possibly you haven't a clue.

Of course I don't know. That's part of the problem! There's so little information being given out, almost as bad as Sony on PSN (a slow drip-feed of information).

But it does beg the question - it took them days to find out that a Steam database had been compromised at all, so what are the chances that things have snuck under the radar?

Do you really think all hackers deface a system when breaking into it (a clear warning sign to them to shut down the services and increase monitoring, reducing the effectiveness of their attack)?

[Loversleaper]

Reading some of the input by a couple of people defending Steam saying "PS3 and Xbox and other companies get hacked"... so what? Does that mean it's kind of alright that this happened...

I am just thinking, "what the flock are you talking about....?"

It is evident that the consumers are getting the short end of the stick, I remember a time where I could simply buy the game (in cash) over the counter and didn't have to think of all this crap. A weeks profit can't justify the situation we can be put in, it's frankly atrocious...

[quaazi]

I love that this happened. I mean, our credit card info isn't really at that big a risk, but it's a hilarious PR meltdown for SI. I mean, for 11 days, we had the ludicrous argument that Steam helped reduce FM piracy. Now that the argument has been proven a blatant lie, we're stuck with it. And now, with this, every consumer is up in arms against Steam, hopefully preventing this bull in future.

Like I've said before, you can't combat piracy. Instead, you should make sure that those who actually buy the game are happy. A lesson that I thought companies had learned last decade, but apparently this childish notion continues to this day.

[milnerpoint]

Your happy Steam has been hacked and people's private details are at risk? Strange way of looking at things, hopefully your house never gets broken into, or anyone steals any of your private information in the future.

SI said Steam would DELAY piracy of their game, it worked, there were no lies told.

Not every consumer is in arms, far from it. Steam will not really lose any customers over this.

Why are people angry at Steam and SI, why not be angry with the scum who do these kinds of attacks? I havent really seen anyone saying anything against them, just jumping on the anti steam bandwagon again. If your not angry with the hackers, why not?

[Joga]

Reading some of the input by a couple of people defending Steam saying "PS3 and Xbox and other companies get hacked"... so what? Does that mean it's kind of alright that this happened...

Of course it's not alright that this happened, but i think that it is little hypocrite to blame SI or Steam if you fear that your information was stolen, of course if you don't have a internet connection then it's okay to blame them forcing you to use Steam.

[lukekarts]

Damn, Sony, Codemasters, Sega, Valve etc.

It's frustrating you guys blame the likes of SI for this; or even Valve. It's those ******* hackers we should be going after. The games industry needs to hire its own hackers to strike back.

[anagain]

Of course I don't know. That's part of the problem! There's so little information being given out, almost as bad as Sony on PSN (a slow drip-feed of information).

But it does beg the question - it took them days to find out that a Steam database had been compromised at all, so what are the chances that things have snuck under the radar?

Do you really think all hackers deface a system when breaking into it (a clear warning sign to them to shut down the services and increase monitoring, reducing the effectiveness of their attack)?

I think it's well known that hackers leave their calling card, so to speak, when they hack in to something. I've seen reports of websites being changed often. Wasn't there a UK newspaper that was hacked into and their website changed? I've heard many a suggestion that a lot of these hackers are in it for the game and even to tighten internet security, but obviously there's the unscrupulous ones out there.

As for Steam taking days to know exactly what happened, well I think that's just a case of being sure...you know, checking the information and re-checking it before you make an announcement. They could maybe have said something the other day, but if they then find out it was more or less then they look a little silly.

I'm still really not overly worried. I notice there's a few niggles with recovering passwords or secret questions through Steam currently, but that might just mean their servers are busy handling requests.

I certainly see a lot of people over reacting and putting this firmly and squarely down as a bad on the part of SI for putting FM on Steam.

If one thing comes of this then internet security is going to continually get tightened. It does need to be. My bank have already bought out a great little system to protect my accounts...even I had trouble getting on my accounts when I forgot one detail. The unscrupulous people will have no chance.

[anagain]

Damn, Sony, Codemasters, Sega, Valve etc.

It's frustrating you guys blame the likes of SI for this; or even Valve. It's those ******* hackers we should be going after. The games industry needs to hire its own hackers to strike back.

I'll echo that, though maybe not the fighting back with hackers. The world does need to get on top of all this hacking malarkey. I think that is something we'll all agree on.

[x42bn6]

Not every consumer is in arms, far from it. Steam will not really lose any customers over this.

:D:D http://news.softpedia.com/news/PSN-Outage-Causes-200-Increase-in-PlayStation-3-Trade-In-Figures-200290.shtml

Bad PR is bad PR and will lose you sales, full-stop.

Unlike PSN, however, Steam hasn't been taken down. But rest assured that bad PR hurts. Otherwise Steam could get hacked hundreds of times every year and nobody would be upset.

[milnerpoint]

Yeah hacking hackers is not really the way to deal with it, two wrongs dont make a right after all. But there definitely needs to be something done to these people, if they can catch them, for me they are terrorists, groups like Anonymous and Lolzsec should be treated as being as dangerous as big criminal groups and delt with as such.

I really do not get the attitude of this is somehow SI's fault, or anger at Valve because they were hacked, people should be angry at whoever did this.

[anagain]

I just thought of something. What with all the outrage over FM having to run through Steam now, could it have been narked FM fans that hacked Steam to try and prove something?

Whatever the case, this is a bad thing to go hand in hand with people being annoyed at SI's choice of anti-piracy methods. I'll admit that. Not because it shows them to be wrong, but because people not a fan of the move will suggest that and use it as ammo.

[milnerpoint]

:D:D http://news.softpedia.com/news/PSN-Outage-Causes-200-Increase-in-PlayStation-3-Trade-In-Figures-200290.shtml

Bad PR is bad PR and will lose you sales, full-stop.

Unlike PSN, however, Steam hasn't been taken down. But rest assured that bad PR hurts. Otherwise Steam could get hacked hundreds of times every year and nobody would be upset.

Hahaha your brilliant at finding these extremely one sided stories that prove absolutely nothing, so 1 retalier said he had a 200% increase in second hand PS3's, but you dont know what numbers we are talking about here, for all we know he could have delt with 1 second hand PS3 a month, secondly, the article is limited to a tiny base of retaliers, thirdly as that article says, most trade in's were from people desperate to play their FPS's online, not because they lost faith in PSN more they had no paitence to wait for the network to come back up. Come on man your better than this.

I still say not EVERY consumer is up in arms, i would even go as far to say it will be a small percentage of Steam users who are annoyed.

[x42bn6]

Hahaha your brilliant at finding these extremely one sided stories that prove absolutely nothing

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385790,00.asp#fbid=eQyu5vy15nh

If Sony hadn't thrown its "Welcome back" promotion (which costs money, by the way), their sales would have been a lot worse. They had to spend a lot of money to restore consumer faith.

I still say not EVERY consumer is up in arms, i would even go as far to say it will be a small percentage of Steam users who are annoyed.

That's an interesting retraction from "Steam will not really lose any customers over this."

[Redbyrd]

I was told on more than one occasion to put a tin foil hat on for not buying fm12 due to steam, am I allowed to take it off now?

I wouldn't. I am sure it makes you look cute.

[Kriss]

Well I doubt they'll get as many sign ups today as they would on a normal day:) of course it will impact initially, but they'll recover ground over time just as Sony etc did.

The key issue is whether or not anybody suffers any direct damage from this, I think it unlikely but we'll not know that for a while.

[ting2004]

If you joined steam to activate football manager I can see that you will be majorly affected. Just a password change and your sorted.

It's not the end of the world.

[milnerpoint]

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385790,00.asp#fbid=eQyu5vy15nh

If Sony hadn't thrown its "Welcome back" promotion (which costs money, by the way), their sales would have been a lot worse. They had to spend a lot of money to restore consumer faith.

That's an interesting retraction from "Steam will not really lose any customers over this."

Your right they did have to rebuild confidence, but mostly because they pulled the entire PSN service with no notification or reasoning to the users, people get very annoyed very quickly when they cannot use a product they have bought (see the endless numbers of steam threads) and they have no patience to wait to find out the full story. I dont really think the hacking of the PSN network was the main issue, it was the lack of service and info provided, so far Steam has not downed its service and we know as much as they can tell us so far.

Steam will not really lose any customers and it will be a small percentage in my mind means pretty much the same thing, i can accept its probably poor english tho, im not retracting anything.

[alfgarnett]

What have I always said about this 'company'?

Well done SI.

I'm surprised that we are even allowed to discuss this here, given the commercial concerns.

[Guest]

After reading the comments on this situation I believe Valve will most likely have another pressing issue to deal with, namely has the encryption software that makes Steam only games tougher to crack been compromised?

If I were part of a scene group that suffers a bloody nose every time it takes days or weeks to crack a new release I would go after the easier target which would be accessing the system that controls the protection.

From a commercial standpoint Valve will not only have to reassure gamers that their product is secure (imho relavitely simple), they will also have to demonstrate to developers like SI that the service they have provided in the past (iirc it took 11 days to get a working crack of FM12) & this will be a much tougher sell as just updating code on the current software is not enough, Valve are going to have to invest a whole heap of time & money developing an entirely new method of protection.

[wild2475]

Your happy Steam has been hacked and people's private details are at risk? Strange way of looking at things, hopefully your house never gets broken into, or anyone steals any of your private information in the future.

SI said Steam would DELAY piracy of their game, it worked, there were no lies told.

Not every consumer is in arms, far from it. Steam will not really lose any customers over this.

Why are people angry at Steam and SI, why not be angry with the scum who do these kinds of attacks? I havent really seen anyone saying anything against them, just jumping on the anti steam bandwagon again. If your not angry with the hackers, why not?

If Steam was just to delay piracy why isn't there a patch out allowing FM12 to be run without Steam?

It was cracked ages ago and yes it stopped pre-release piracy and stopped post release piracy for 10 days.

Well done, now lets get rid of Steam for FM12 as if piracy was the ONLY issue then it has served its purpose.

[Guest]

I think SI/Sega have already posted that Piracy was not the only factor behind choosing Steam as a partner platform & that focusing on the anti-piracy issue in the announcement was a mistake.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Your right they did have to rebuild confidence, but mostly because they pulled the entire PSN service with no notification or reasoning to the users, people get very annoyed very quickly when they cannot use a product they have bought (see the endless numbers of steam threads) and they have no patience to wait to find out the full story. I dont really think the hacking of the PSN network was the main issue, it was the lack of service and info provided, so far Steam has not downed its service and we know as much as they can tell us so far.Steam will not really lose any customers and it will be a small percentage in my mind means pretty much the same thing, i can accept its probably poor english tho, im not retracting anything.

We know as much as they want us to know, not necessarily all they know.

[mantralux]

The key issue is whether or not anybody suffers any direct damage from this, I think it unlikely but we'll not know that for a while.

For me the key issue is whether or not I should even have to worry about things like these for wanting to play a non-online game like Football Manager 2012. As I've said before; by having a mandatory third-party layer between the developer and the customer, Sports Interactive and SEGA are playing a dangerous game in punishing their customers with more layers of potential problems. When Steam is working, it has no advantages for me as a customer over a traditional install. When it's not working, I'm getting punished while SI/SEGA go "well at least the game wasn't cracked early".

As Sports Interactive/SEGA made the decision to force Steam upon anyone who wish to play their game, it will reflect back on them when this third party layer has problems. Whether that's right or wrong is irrelevant, SI/SEGA should take responsibility for their choice of putting all their customers in the hands of incompetent software developers. A choice that potentially could mean that some people will have their account and credit card info stolen.

And spare me this whole "not many people are affected" - Miles used the same argument in the Steam thread that you guys finally had to close down due to it being embarrassing that the Steam decision wasn't popular. Even if it only affects ONE of us, it's too many, and something that could have been avoided by using more intelligent and creative ways of preventing piracy.

The real question here is whether or not it was WORTH preventing early cracked versions of the game, in exchange for potential credit card hacking, account theft, all the technical issues listed in the support forums, all the issues with the extra software layer on top of the game, the dependance on third party connection in order to play, etc etc.

The truth is that Steam only benefits SI/SEGA, not the customers.

[milnerpoint]

If Steam was just to delay piracy why isn't there a patch out allowing FM12 to be run without Steam?

It was cracked ages ago and yes it stopped pre-release piracy and stopped post release piracy for 10 days.

Well done, now lets get rid of Steam for FM12 as if piracy was the ONLY issue then it has served its purpose.

I was going to reply but this is not an anti steam thread and shouldnt be turned into one, Its here to let people know their has been a security issue. and to make sure they take the proper steps to avoid any issues.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

For me the key issue is whether or not I should even have to worry about things like these for wanting to play a non-online game like Football Manager 2012. As I've said before; by having a mandatory third-party layer between the developer and the customer, Sports Interactive and SEGA are playing a dangerous game in punishing their customers with more layers of potential problems. When Steam is working, it has no advantages for me as a customer over a traditional install. When it's not working, I'm getting punished while SI/SEGA go "well at least the game wasn't cracked early".

As Sports Interactive/SEGA made the decision to force Steam upon anyone who wish to play their game, it will reflect back on them when this third party layer has problems. Whether that's right or wrong is irrelevant, SI/SEGA should take responsibility for their choice of putting all their customers in the hands of incompetent software developers. A choice that potentially could mean that some people will have their account and credit card info stolen.

And spare me this whole "not many people are affected" - Miles used the same argument in the Steam thread that you guys finally had to close down due to it being embarrassing that the Steam decision wasn't popular. Even if it only affects ONE of us, it's too many, and something that could have been avoided by using more intelligent and creative ways of preventing piracy.

The real question here is whether or not it was WORTH preventing early cracked versions of the game, in exchange for potential credit card hacking, account theft, all the technical issues listed in the support forums, all the issues with the extra software layer on top of the game, the dependance on third party connection in order to play, etc etc.

The truth is that Steam only benefits SI/SEGA, not the customers.

Thanks mantralux, you just saved me a lot of time and effort.

[wild2475]

You dont run FM without steam full stop, it would be completely pointless doubling back and would most likely cause more issue as SI would have to make a new build of the game, one that doesnt run through Steam, there is no real financial advantage to SI to do this, especioally not since there is a cracked version that can do the same, the number of extra sales would be minimal for the outlay required.

Your right it was delayed for 10 days, 10 days more than FM11 was, again no lies were told, Steam has done exactly what they said it would, it has delayed piracy or their game and it has made their lives a bit easier because of the ability to roll out hotfixes quite easily.

Piracy was never the only issue, no one ever said that, what has happened was SI said it was one of their main concerns and the anti steam brigade have blown this statement our of proportion. Do not be surprised to see FM13 as steam only again.

The official response from Sega regarding the use of Steam on FM12 was simple, that answer (which has now been fully removed from the Forum) was 'to stop piracy of the game'.

You're quite right, after people have batteed SI/Sega and looked in between the cracks the official stance has changed and they have admitted there are a range of benefits other than piracy it gives them.

However for me personally the item I have highlighted in bold is the issue, their lives easier some customers (a sizeable amount I would assume) haven't had their lives made easier.

Thats fine when the series is good, when it deteriates its a great way to ruin a business model.

Just my opinion and each to their own.

[milnerpoint]

We know as much as they want us to know, not necessarily all they know.

Possibly but they have been pretty honest on the matter so far, lets see how it develops before we all panic too much.

[milnerpoint]

The official response from Sega regarding the use of Steam on FM12 was simple, that answer (which has now been fully removed from the Forum) was 'to stop piracy of the game'.

You're quite right, after people have batteed SI/Sega and looked in between the cracks the official stance has changed and they have admitted there are a range of benefits other than piracy it gives them.

However for me personally the item I have highlighted in bold is the issue, their lives easier some customers (a sizeable amount I would assume) haven't had their lives made easier.

Thats fine when the series is good, when it deteriates its a great way to ruin a business model.

Just my opinion and each to their own.

Like i say this is not a thread about the benefits of steam, its about a security issue Valve have experienced, lets not drag this down to another argument on the matter.

[hugo_rune]

Possibly but they have been pretty honest on the matter so far, lets see how it develops before we all panic too much.

If they wanted to hide anything, they wouldn't have said anything at all.

[milnerpoint]

If they wanted to hide anything, they wouldn't have said anything at all.

Thats the way i see it, if they wanted to hide this they would not have been so open about the fact data could be compromised, they have come out from the start stating details about what has happened. People should also realise that this will have really hurt and upset Valve, they pride themselves on Steam and you can be sure they will taking this very seriously to make sure the possibilities of it happening again are reduced.

[Wakers]

My stance on making the game Steam only really hasn't changed after this;

If they want to sell through Steam, that's great. A lot of people use it (myself included), and it's a good distribution platform.

But, if they make you use Steam to play it, then it's a poor show. It does nothing for the customer but introduce potential problems and annoy them, while pirates really don't have any issues. I've bought two games that require Steam, Deus Ex and Football Manager, and neither have worked smoothly all the time - which is just not right. Technology should be making things easier, not more awkward - and it's definitely a lot harder to play a PC game today than it was ten years ago.

[x42bn6]

Still amused that Steam's homepage makes no mention of the hacking incident, but does push a Skyrim promotion...

[pigfacemonkeyman]

The official response from Sega regarding the use of Steam on FM12 was simple, that answer (which has now been fully removed from the Forum) was 'to stop piracy of the game'.

You're quite right, after people have batteed SI/Sega and looked in between the cracks the official stance has changed and they have admitted there are a range of benefits other than piracy it gives them.

However for me personally the item I have highlighted in bold is the issue, their lives easier some customers (a sizeable amount I would assume) haven't had their lives made easier.

Thats fine when the series is good, when it deteriates its a great way to ruin a business model.

Just my opinion and each to their own.

You can find it here:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/274801-A-Message-On-Football-Manager-2012-Activation

and this is on page 2:

Wakers:

I would appreciate it if everyone stopped hiding behind the piracy excuse.

I appreciate that Steam makes it incredibly easy to push out updates, and to keep graphics drivers up to date, but it does nothing against piracy - if anything it will drive a new section of potential or existing customers towards it. Steam has several advantages, but it also has a lot of disadvantages which are far too easily swept under the carpet. That and forcing someone who's purchased the game to install third party software is not a good way to treat customers. It should be an option, it should not be mandatory.

Again, Steam does nothing against piracy, so I struggle to believe that is the actual reason for this decision.

David - SEGA, SEGA STAFF:

Wakers - apologies if you struggle to believe this, but we can 100% say that it is te actual reason.

(good edit Milnerpoint)

[Suzie MUFC]

Still no message for me on loading Steam. There really should be. Not everyone who uses the Steam client uses the Steam forums or visits the homepage every day.

The message from the Steam chief all seems a bit "Oh.. by the way...", hidden away in a place where quite a few probably won't see it, and only for a 3rd party to eventually post it. Unacceptable when there is the potential for credit/bank card fraud.

Edit: Plus, of all the times for this to happen, I'm unable to activate Steam Guard. Didn't even know it existed until now, wish they'd make it clear it exists and what it's for.

Shaking my head.