Mr Hough FM11.2 Winger tactic and Discussion

[zigzag]

I started using this tactic mid way through 2014/15 season with Napoli, mixed results really. I lost some ridiculous league games to awful teams finishing 5th (after a 2nd previous season), but won the Coppa Italia and Champs Lge battering Barca 4-0 in the final. Particular highlight was Yaya Sanogo scoring 50 goals in 49 games.

Anyway I'm concerned with the number of goals I concede, as all my defenders are fast (slowest has 14 acc and 15 pace) is it worth pushing the defensive line right up high?

[mantorras77]

Hi Mr. H, any thoughts on when the 11.3 version will be ready?

he answered that in post# 271

[Nadessico]

completed 2 tests of the undertaker tactic on 11.3, 1 with my built up Everton side designed for the tactic which crushed everyone in the prem the season before, and one with a new database Liverpool with a few signings to match the tactic.

i've noticed it's still a very effective tactic for both sides, though the defence is a little weaker against poor teams for some reason, however, the AI doesn't seem to know how to use the tactic. i simmed an entire season with the Everton side letting the AI pick the team but not the tactic and we finished 7th and conceeded 3 times as many goals as the season before, then i tried 10 matches with Liverpool, simmed first time, reloaded and then played them the 2nd time, and the end record was AI 7 wins 1 draw 2 loses, compaired to me winning all 10 games playing, the 7 wins were also scrappy 1-0's, 3-2's ect, where as the manual wins were 4-0's 6-1's ect.

So yes the tactic seems fine if you play it on 11.3, but just don't go on holiday

[Mr Hough]

OK, After playing with loads of different tactics - 4-1-4-1 - 4-5-1 - 4-1-3-2 - 4-1-2-1-2 - 4-2-2-2 amongst others since Patch 11.3 has come out i have decided not to continue in trying to make a decent tactic for 11.3.

The reasons for this is simple - The Match Engine, I had high hopes for this ME and SI have got it so so so wrong, I don't care if i get flagged for this Rant because I'm writing what probably millions of people are thinking.

Lets have a look at the Basics shall we.

Defending - Tackling - right on the tackling alone we have 3 options OK - Easy - Normal and Hard, My guess is that Easy is to stand the opposition up and don't go in for the challenge as much as normal or hard - Normal is a mixture of both - Hard tackling is where as soon as the opposition receives the ball you try and win the ball as soon as possible, Obviously other factors come into this like Closing down and Mentality, But that is the gist of it.

The outcome however is, If i have my defenders on hard tackling and high closing down they still run side by side with the opposition player, Why is this happening - If the opposition player is better then fair enough but show us on the ME that my player is trying to get the ball with hard tackling so we can change it because it just looks like he isn't doing what we are telling him to - If the defender threw himself into the challenge and was beaten then i would think 'OK i need to lower the closing down and maybe reduce the talking till he stops doing that' but by him just running down the line holding his friggin hand what does that tell us that we have to change - Nothing at all because it is giving us no indication of what is going on.

SI and Other Beta people - Do you understand what i mean!!

That's my biggest issue, Anyone can make a attacking tactic but you have to have the balance right at the back - I totally get that, But all of the player instructions and other things i have tried have given me the same outcome - Hapless defending and it's simply not good enough.

I also have issues with Strikers but they aren't as massive as this one so that's me done now.

I have gone back to 11.2 which is not perfect but a better built ME than 11.3.

A message to all the people involved in the Football Manager game and ME - Please rectify these issues for FM12 and make it the best game ever, It's a hard enough job making a game of this Quality and sure things go wrong but take your time, Even if you delayed the game a few weeks to get it perfect i think people would prefer that than a game that is to be honest half done - That's not a dig, I'm sure it's hard making the ME as best as possible.

Anyway Rant over and let the opinions and discussions start!

[Wijnand fens]

I follow your advice..... but how to delete patch 11.3? Re install the game? and than install patch 11.2?

[Preveza]

OK, After playing with loads of different tactics - 4-1-4-1 - 4-5-1 - 4-1-3-2 - 4-1-2-1-2 - 4-2-2-2 amongst others since Patch 11.3 has come out i have decided not to continue in trying to make a decent tactic for 11.3.

The reasons for this is simple - The Match Engine, I had high hopes for this ME and SI have got it so so so wrong, I don't care if i get flagged for this Rant because I'm writing what probably millions of people are thinking.

Lets have a look at the Basics shall we.

Defending - Tackling - right on the tackling alone we have 3 options OK - Easy - Normal and Hard, My guess is that Easy is to stand the opposition up and don't go in for the challenge as much as normal or hard - Normal is a mixture of both - Hard tackling is where as soon as the opposition receives the ball you try and win the ball as soon as possible, Obviously other factors come into this like Closing down and Mentality, But that is the gist of it.

The outcome however is, If i have my defenders on hard tackling and high closing down they still run side by side with the opposition player, Why is this happening - If the opposition player is better then fair enough but show us on the ME that my player is trying to get the ball with hard tackling so we can change it because it just looks like he isn't doing what we are telling him to - If the defender threw himself into the challenge and was beaten then i would think 'OK i need to lower the closing down and maybe reduce the talking till he stops doing that' but by him just running down the line holding his friggin hand what does that tell us that we have to change - Nothing at all because it is giving us no indication of what is going on.

SI and Other Beta people - Do you understand what i mean!!

That's my biggest issue, Anyone can make a attacking tactic but you have to have the balance right at the back - I totally get that, But all of the player instructions and other things i have tried have given me the same outcome - Hapless defending and it's simply not good enough.

I also have issues with Strikers but they aren't as massive as this one so that's me done now.

I have gone back to 11.2 which is not perfect but a better built ME than 11.3.

A message to all the people involved in the Football Manager game and ME - Please rectify these issues for FM12 and make it the best game ever, It's a hard enough job making a game of this Quality and sure things go wrong but take your time, Even if you delayed the game a few weeks to get it perfect i think people would prefer that than a game that is to be honest half done - That's not a dig, I'm sure it's hard making the ME as best as possible.

Anyway Rant over and let the opinions and discussions start!

Spot on Dave. Exactly what I was thinking. I have made a 442 and its doing very well. The defending is the biggest problem for me also.

SI definitely need to make massive massive changes to the ME and id rather have FM12 with only minor inclusions, and the rest to be focused on getting the ME close to spot on.

[Mr Hough]

I follow your advice..... but how to delete patch 11.3? Re install the game? and than install patch 11.2?

i uninstalled the game complelty - reinstalled - Downloaded all the patches to 11.2.1.

[Rooney_08]

ill keep working on a 4-1-2-3 tactic im using and if i can find a fix for defence Dave ill let you know but its highly unlikely i will find

[Mr Hough]

ill keep working on a 4-1-2-3 tactic im using and if i can find a fix for defence Dave ill let you know but its highly unlikely i will find

I think it goes deeper than some settings - I have been testing and testing just different defence settings and still the same problems arise.

[-aizEn]

Hi Hough

I'm poor english you can't make tactic with 11.3?

You come back make tactic with 11.2.1?

[mibsweden]

So hmm, any idea on how to get the 11.2 game again if I have bought the game as a digital install from direct2drive?

Sorry for the OT.

[Mr Hough]

So hmm, any idea on how to get the 11.2 game again if I have bought the game as a digital install from direct2drive?

Sorry for the OT.

Damn, No idea on that one boss

[march]

I've had a lot of succes using your Unbeaten 11.2 and Steve's updated more defensive version. I use your version at home games and Steve's at away. Works excellent for me

[samas21]

Based Hough is beaten.

[Preveza]

I think it goes deeper than some settings - I have been testing and testing just different defence settings and still the same problems arise.

Dave, try using OI on their strikers..I use tight marking and hard tackling and was astounded to find that they now tackle better and its minimised them just running aside them and letting them through on goal.

Try that and get back to me

[S!lver]

It's the exact opposite for me. I can keep clean sheets pretty easily but really struggle to score (except from set pieces...)

[Dirty Harry]

Played Chelsea game with 11.3:

-League Cup semis with my b-team, if i'd put my a team in the last two matches would won that too. >.<

-Won Premiership well early, ten games or so

-Won C/L. Run in wasn't easy either, Inter, Man Utd, Arsenal and Barca or Real Madrid if i remember properly.

Torres league top scorere with 31.

Meanest defense.

The ganes are fun to watch too, sadly though not as fun as watching it with three strikers.

As for proof if you need it that's the best i can do as i am into my second season.

Some premier division player stats:

-Torres: 30 games, 31 goals (Only thing i did to him was always have him on composure. it inly dribbled up one though); also got heighest rating overall

Thought i'd add that Anelka was so good in front of goal Drogba was mostly benched or in cup matches or dead rubbers.

-101 team points.

-119 goals

-Zhirkov had the most assists, and he wasn't on corners. Ever.

[Dirty Harry]

Spot on Dave. Exactly what I was thinking. I have made a 442 and its doing very well. The defending is the biggest problem for me also.

SI definitely need to make massive massive changes to the ME and id rather have FM12 with only minor inclusions, and the rest to be focused on getting the ME close to spot on.

Having played the game since the first CM, then onto FM after the split. I have found that there seems to generally a pattern of them introducing things in a certain game, refining them to their greatest extent with patches etc, then the next year there is less change and the game is almost perfect. They then add in something else to up the game the next year, which overall brings the game down but gives it potential. The year following they release a finish version of the year before with little or no new things and simply polished off problems.

I am dearly hoping this continues as this year's game hasn't been very good but it shows a lot of potential and a lot of changes have been made, M/E, tutoring, graphics changes.

Remember how you could always tell an offside goal before it was announced. In what might be an effort to make things more realistic, those goals you think will be flagged in a second or two as offside sometimes aren't. This being more realistic as IRL you and the whole stadium almost refrain from celebrating the goal as you know it's offside then you realise the officials have gotten it wrong and start celebrating.

[cragswfc]

Played Chelsea game with 10.3:

-League Cup semis with my b-team, if i'd put my a team in the last two matches would won that too. >.<

-Won Premiership well early, ten games or so

-Won C/L. Run in wasn't easy either, Inter, Man Utd, Arsenal and Barca or Real Madrid if i remember properly.

Torres league top scorere with 31.

Meanest defense.

The ganes are fun to watch too, sadly though not as fun as watching it with three strikers.

As for proof if you need it that's the best i can do as i am into my second season.

Some premier division player stats:

-Torres: 30 games, 31 goals (Only thing i did to him was always have him on composure. it inly dribbled up one though); also got heighest rating overall

Thought i'd add that Anelka was so good in front of goal Drogba was mostly benched or in cup matches or dead rubbers.

-101 team points.

-119 goals

-Zhirkov had the most assists, and he wasn't on corners. Ever.

10.3?? which version you use

[Helegoed]

does this work on 11.3?

[kev08]

10.3?? which version you use

i think he ment 11.3

[MfcChris]

Just want to say a huge thank you as always to Mr Hough. I always wait a few months after each patch till your tactics are fully completed by you. I had just downloaded the latest 11.2.1 Winger tactic and here are the results:

Last season I finished 15th in the Prem, winning 14 and losing 19. Scoring 44 and Conceding 56 with about 1 to 3 CCC's per game. This is the first 4 games of the next season with the exact same squad.

- Won 5-1; 18 shots; 11 on target; 7 CCC

- Won 10-0; 30 shots; 15 on target; 11 CCC

- Won 7-1; 27 shots; 10 on target; 5 CCC

- Won 6-0; 21 shots; 10 on target; 14 CCC

[Pombax]

What's the best Mr Hough tactic for patch 11.2.1? Thanks...

[Mr Hough]

Just want to say a huge thank you as always to Mr Hough. I always wait a few months after each patch till your tactics are fully completed by you. I had just downloaded the latest 11.2.1 Winger tactic and here are the results:

Last season I finished 15th in the Prem, winning 14 and losing 19. Scoring 44 and Conceding 56 with about 1 to 3 CCC's per game. This is the first 4 games of the next season with the exact same squad.

- Won 5-1; 18 shots; 11 on target; 7 CCC

- Won 10-0; 30 shots; 15 on target; 11 CCC

- Won 7-1; 27 shots; 10 on target; 5 CCC

- Won 6-0; 21 shots; 10 on target; 14 CCC

Pretty Awesome that mate - I am in the middle of making another tactic, Which hopefully will give you similar Results in 11.3

[petyo]

Pretty Awesome that mate - I am in the middle of making another tactic, Which hopefully will give you similar Results in 11.3

Do you make some test with the new one? How it goes, it is 4-1-2-2-1 yea?

[Jimmyrh94]

played chelsea game with 11.3:

-league cup semis with my b-team, if i'd put my a team in the last two matches would won that too. >.<

-won premiership well early, ten games or so

-won c/l. Run in wasn't easy either, inter, man utd, arsenal and barca or real madrid if i remember properly.

Torres league top scorere with 31.

Meanest defense.

The ganes are fun to watch too, sadly though not as fun as watching it with three strikers.

As for proof if you need it that's the best i can do as i am into my second season.

Some premier division player stats:

-torres: 30 games, 31 goals (only thing i did to him was always have him on composure. It inly dribbled up one though); also got heighest rating overall

thought i'd add that anelka was so good in front of goal drogba was mostly benched or in cup matches or dead rubbers.

-101 team points.

-119 goals

-zhirkov had the most assists, and he wasn't on corners. Ever.

what tactic were you using here mate?

[Tony Fisher]

Pretty Awesome that mate - I am in the middle of making another tactic, Which hopefully will give you similar Results in 11.3

great news, can't wait you 11.3 tactic

[Zibba_H]

Good tactic ,thanks ^.^

[LeoXiong]

Mr Hough, when will you update your tactics?

i'm waiting for you~

[MfcChris]

With the classical tactics, what do you do when you are in a losing position to get that goal?

For instance with the shouts on the other type of tactics, you can shout get the ball forward and go all out attack. And if you want to hold a lead you could keep possession and contain.

[MilanoBaros]

Which tactic is the 11.2.1 tactic?

They all seem to have names.

The undertaker was the last one on the opening post.

THanks

[Jimmyrh94]

which tactic are people having success with on 11.3....the tombstone piledriver tactic or the original 11.2 winger?

[MilanoBaros]

I'm having success with the chelsea one that is a flat 4-4-2 but I put the wide men back into the AML/R positions.

[Jimmyrh94]

what chelsea one:S ?

[dan99]

what chelsea one:S ?

Steve's defensive one in the OP?

[Jimmyrh94]

how much success did people find with this tactic in the champions league?

[sparkysrovers]

Hi Dave - is there going to be any winger update tactic?

[CR7_man]

Any update to winger tactic ?

[Wijnand fens]

I had very good results with the undertaker- tombstone piledriver tactic in 11.3....

- NOT set a targetman

- Width still not moved to the left (maybe later, just played a few matches)

keep you updated