These forums

[dafuge]

I think it says something that for the last couple of years the GQ awards have been abandoned.

[Rashidi]

the good users in OTF seem to gravitate to maybe a handful of threads, that's true. I have to admit sometimes I lurk there when GQ becomes a mess, or when I have to play the referee in a tactical debate.

Maybe custom titles for each individual forum. Pointless Poster of 2007 I could think of a few who could win that one.

There are some good posters here who deserve recognition. I think we should weed the good ones from the bad ones, and find a sin bin for the bad ones

[Kris]

Thatd be a euro or wheelie bin as opposed to a swing bin for the bad ones ?

[Rashidi]

The GQ awards just faded away. There's just been too much for the mods to do sometimes. I have a great day job I sometimes moderate these forums from a meeting at work that's sending me too sleep. LOL

The awards should come back...we shouldn't make it annual though..that's too long. It should be more adhoc, every month perhaps and then at the end of the year..put all of them into the vote and give them something. I dunno what ..its 4 am now and I have a budget meeting in like 5 hours

[stripeylad]

I think that people need to help themselves really. I've seen a ton of posts from people asking questions for which the answer can be found elsewhere on the SI site or within the forums themselves. The original poster then gets upset that either

a) no-one has replied and starts posting again bumping his/her thread to try and get a response which results in more abuse for the OP

or

2) The OP gets a ton of abuse for asking the same question for the 1000th time or asking about a release date for the demo or asking an unrelated question in an unrelated topic.

If people actually re-read what they typed and then thought 'Do i need to post this' before they hit 'Post Now' I think the forums would be a better place.

I originally started out in GQ and then moved to OTF (more of a lurker than a poster) but find OTF to be fun (at times). Don't look in GQ much anymore due to the (so-called) 'mindless' posts by 'idiots'. Now I know these people are not idiots but I think too much in society now is handed to people on a plate and they just refuse to go and find information for themselves. Same can be said for the forums.

Now to make the forums a nicer place to be and ensure that people feel comfortable to ask questions and make it a place that people want to be involved in...tough ask. As I have mentioned I think a lot of the problems faced are by people asking questions for which the answer is already available. Now you could post stickys or have as many 'INFO' pages on SI as you want but people will still ask the question (case in point the relase date of FM2008 - no relase date from SI who make the game but "Play say 19th Oct so it must be then, they wouldn't just make the date up", I must have seen a ton of these kind of posts over the last few weeks. You can tell one person but then another will continue to say the Play & Game wouldn't post unless they knew the date etc. Must drive the people who have to manage this kind of thing mad)

And I know the mods have it tough as they all have 'real' lives to live as well as modding this place. Agree that we could do with more of them but they need to be the right people or it just defeats it's own purpose. No point having a mod for mods sake.

Anyhow not sure I've added much to this discussion or made any worthwhile points but I do feel that people should help themselves a lot more than they currently do rather than just post after post of repeated nonsense.

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by Kris:

Thatd be a euro or wheelie bin as opposed to a swing bin for the bad ones ?

The bad ones just growing and sprouting up everywhere..I just want the good ones to be recognised...and I can definitely come up with a few from GQ.

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by stripeylad:

but I do feel that people should help themselves a lot more than they currently do rather than just post after post of repeated nonsense.

Absolutely right. We need to make one fundamental assumption here...people behave well. Once we agree that people should do that when they enter, it should be fairly easy to determine if someone is either being lazy or being a pain. And these people should be dealt with. The question is how.

[Michael F]

Originally posted by Kris:

We get over 5,000 posts a day

4,000 belong to BBB.

On a serious note can you see which forums get the most posts per day, im guessing OTF gets the most then possibly GQ

[GerdMuller]

I havent been to GQ for a long time becuase most of the post really have been there a thousand times or are abolutely pointless.

But i really do like the OTF although i noticed a decline in the general quality of posts there in the last few months, too. But i also have to admit that i do like the sometimes a little rough tone on OTF and being a little sarcastic or mildly offenisve to posters who are known to be that too is a big part of the "magic" of OTF. Hope it doesnt become a boring place with the new rules with only post like: "So i got this new cellphone... !

[Glyn]

Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

On the suject of Glyn, I would love to see a before and after picture of Glyn. 1 of him before he became a Mod and 1 now. I bet he's aged .

Before

After

[Jimbokav1971]

Glyn . I'm betting you've lost a little of your pace then.

[Michael F]

Originally posted by Glyn:

After

Not aged one bit

[Kris]

Gerd : OTF is unique in that its not really a SI related subforum.

It will continue to be policed in the way it has been for the past 7 years barring any SI directive. Although I have tried to clamp down on a few people who seem to think that length of registration on the forums equates to leniancy.

OTF is a circle, I've seen the decline and the increase in posting quality every year for the past 7 years now. I;ve seen the demise and surface of old and new users and the movement of "trends".

[GerdMuller]

So OTF will live...

[Naryana]

Originally posted by Kris:

This is easy as a number of users will use the report post feature to highlight this.

Maybe this feature could be promoted more? If you could get users to report flaming and useless posts instead of posting in it, it would mean you would only have to look through the reported posts to find the problem ones, saving you time having to read all the posts in every forum.

[Glenn Stiemens]

Originally posted by Miles Jacobson:

As some of you have noticed, the majority of normal posters from SI haven't been on the forums much recently.

I'd certainly noticed this - it was something I was going to comment on in the FML beta. Basically, how refreshing it was to see people from SI taking an active part in discussing the future direction of that game. And sure there are a lot of idiots on the FML beta but in general the atmosphere is spot on - basically, its a fun place to be around and you feel that everyone is working towards getting the game as good as it possibly can be.

I appreciate FM is an entirely different beast but I get the general impression that SI has become a lot more insular in terms of how it tackles improving the series. I guess this is a side-effect of the development team increasing over the years (and the fanbase of FM shifting slightly as its popularity has grown).

For instance, if you take a look at the EHM forum - back when Riz & Graeme were still working on the title, you felt that they were far more active in the forums and that suggestions were taken in far more readily (possibly because the team was so much smaller and arguably more 'indie').

Having said all that, I still regard SI as being the most active when it comes to listening to constructive criticism when compared to other developers of a similar size.

I feel a suggestions forum is the way forward - GQ should be the place for newcomers to come and post repetitively about when the game is coming out etc, but constructive criticism should be placed somewhere else - a little more hidden - so that it gets more reasoned replies over a longer period of time. Whereas atm I feel its entirely possible for a decent suggestion to go down to page 2 or 3 whilst people spend their times in this forum responding to release date threads with bullying etc.

[Zico]

Couldn't agree more with trying to get some of the nastiness out of the forums. How about doing what Civfanatics do with their forums, which is to have a lot more sticky topics at the top of the first page? This means that all questions/comments etc about a certain subject stick to one place. Otherwise you have what happens here, which is page after page of comments posted each day, with the good ones rapidly pushed back to page 15 and therefore out of sight, and people getting irritated because someone has innocently asked the same question 150 people have already posed in the last week.

[Arkim]

I am relieved this has finally been made a sticky, and by a SI member.

It is ridiculous with how much crap this forum is filled with, and I mean those people that post like "ffs, search already" or "you suck, get better".

Some people, I won't mention names, have been so ridiculously childish in their posts, that it has made some members including me, not want to post my opinion in specific threads, and I don't mean the one question threads, because of fear of being ridiculed because some idiot thinks he knows it all, or is just too ignorant.

There has definately been a change in the forum and it's for the worse. I would highly suggest much more moderation going on, with well respected and mannered people on the mod team, not just someone who has lots of posts.

If someone asks a question that has been asked many times, why make a big deal out of it and post garbage on the forum? If you're going to spend time replying, make it a useful reply, or else don't bother. It disgusts me even thinking about this. There's many more examples which I'm sure most of us have seen.

I apologize if my post may seem a little harsh, however I wanted to post my share as well.

[The Enforcer]

A lot of things in life concern 'carrot and stick'. Carrot, because there's a reward for doing something and stick, because something bad will happen if you don't.

Most of what I talked about above was to do with the stick side of things, but it would be a good idea to try and introduce some sort of carrot to encourage good behaviour.

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned increases in 'Karma', but I'm not sure about this as this only relates to quantity of posts and does not reflect quality of posts.

The 'Kudos' idea was better (points gained from fellow members for helpful posts and lost for unhelpful posts). I'm thinking of something similar to the positive and negative feedback that gets alocated to buyers and sellers on e-bay. There would have to be a limit along the lines of one point per peer per post to avoid abuse (otherwise an enemy could mark you down and a mate could mark you up by 1000's). If the Kudos rating was displayed as a % - e.g. 95% helpful (meaning that 5% of the total points awarded were negative for unhelpful comments), this would remove bias towards people who have more time to post on the forms and ensures that quality reigns over quantity.

Again, this doesn't mean very much unless the Kudos rating is linked to an actual reward. I'm struggling to think of something here. Financial incentives are obviously out. The offer of becoming a mod or helper is only going to appeal to some people. Perhaps members with good kudos ratings could be offered first refusal of future beta testing opportunities? Maybe there could be a 'hidden sub-forum' that would only be available to those with the highest Kudos ratings?

I may think of some better incentives later.

[GoGa70]

1. Minor infringement eg textspeak 1 day ban.

LOL - why not just to hang people fo this?

[GoGa70]

Originally posted by Glyn:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

On the suject of Glyn, I would love to see a before and after picture of Glyn. 1 of him before he became a Mod and 1 now. I bet he's aged .

Before

After </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

talk about pointless comments

[The Enforcer]

I'm amazed my brain is still functioning at this unearthly hour!

To elaborate a little on the 'hidden sub-forum' idea:

Maybe this could work on the basis of a specific invite from SI to those with the highest Kudos to a specialist thread to discuss an aspect of FM that the team are currently working on (and possibly have reached a sticking point with). There are benefits for both sides here. These members gain from having a direct opportunity to influemce (an albeit small) part of the game development process and SI gain from being able to get specific fanbase input from trusted individuals, rather than having to wade through pages on the off-chance they might find something constructive.

[The Enforcer]

I'm undecided as to whether Kudos should be visible in the same way as Karma is.

On the one hand, it might be useful to know that you'd been marked down, as a learning process so as not to re-offend, or to highlight where you'd done good.

But on the other hand some users might get bigheaded and if people could see their ratings, there might be a temptation to post complaining about their score and lots of appeals to mods to arbitrate.

On balance, I would keep the Kudos ratings hidden to all but SI. That way, when the reward comes, it would be a pleasant surprise.

[Dayle Wood]

Originally posted by GoGa70:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">1. Minor infringement eg textspeak 1 day ban.

LOL - why not just to hang people fo this? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>There are people from far away lands that don't speak very good english therefore text speaking makes communicating for those people even harder and is therefore and quite rightly so, not allowed.

[thefootman]

I think a seperate suggestions forum is a good idea.I've seen threads of this nature receiving

plenty of useful and at times excellent ideas for the improvement of the game only to spot others appearing

seperately titled "Suggestion for FM** (or whatever the next version maybe).

I rarely start threads without running a search first but there will always be those who have neither the time or

simply can't be bothered to do so (which in turn results in multiple threads regarding the same issue).

I generally find that any issue I have with the game has already been covered by others and when I have posted a

question or tried to be helpful most people have replied nicely and in a friendly manner.

As for the overall conduct on the forums (particulary GQ) I myself have been guilty at times of posting the odd sarcastic

reply without thinking of it as anything but a gentle rebuff (perhaps to a subject that I thought was deserving of

it) and only afterwards thinking "Why did I post that?".I've also received one or two but nothing serious enough to report.

And then what happens?.I go and do exactly the same thing again.

As Herter mentioned at the start of this thread sometimes we can get caught up in the general mood and post ill advised

comments.

I fully understand why editing rights have been removed but it is at times like that that you wish you could edit your posts.

Retaining a friendly and helpful attitude is not difficult and that is what I generally try to do.It will also help to keep

the forums an accessible and pleasant place to be.

This thread will simply help me to focus on why I registered in the first place.To help (when I can),for good,friendly

advice and to dicuss issues with the game.Clamping down on abuse can only be a good thing (however it is implemented)

and there have been some good ideas so far.I really enjoy these forums,particulary when I am actively playing the game,

and the last thing I want is a ban for some stupidly ill-advised comment that could easily have been avoided with a bit

of common sense and forward thinking.

Apologies for the long post

[Gooner Steve]

When I first joined it was a community and I spent more time reading in the forum than I did playing the game! I really miss the interaction with the SI staff, what I really enjoyed was being able to get an answer about the game from the person who actually implemented it.

Here are a couple of ideas I have;

* More bans but for shorter periods.

* More mods and more consistancy (theres a football term).

* I think the job of the mods would be made easier if the mods had no names. I think some mods I frightened to act against regular users, for a fear of being bullied themselves (which I have seen). Hope this makes sense!

* I have seen on another forum that they have a "thanks" button for helpful posts. Then it is displayed in there profile under there name. I think this would give an incentive to help people.

* As above maybe have a "no thanks" button. This would work instead of replying with a written post and this should be displayed in the same way as above.

[Jimbokav1971]

* I think the job of the mods would be made easier if the mods had no names. I think some mods I frightened to act against regular users, for a fear of being bullied themselves (which I have seen). Hope this makes sense!

Gooner. There is no way on Earth that any of the Mods in here are bullied by the regulars.

Apsolutely no bloomin way.

[Dayle Wood]

Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">* I think the job of the mods would be made easier if the mods had no names. I think some mods I frightened to act against regular users, for a fear of being bullied themselves (which I have seen). Hope this makes sense!

Gooner. There is no way on Earth that any of the Mods in here are bullied by the regulars.

Apsolutely no bloomin way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I second Jimbokavs sentiments.

[thefootman]

Originally posted by The Enforcer:

I'm undecided as to whether Kudos should be visible in the same way as Karma is.

On the one hand, it might be useful to know that you'd been marked down, as a learning process so as not to re-offend, or to highlight where you'd done good.

But on the other hand some users might get bigheaded and if people could see their ratings, there might be a temptation to post complaining about their score and lots of appeals to mods to arbitrate.

On balance, I would keep the Kudos ratings hidden to all but SI. That way, when the reward comes, it would be a pleasant surprise.

Both of your suggestions sound good to me.And if SI agree,I'm sure they could come up with something along those lines.

A lot of good ideas can get lost in the morass of threads.

Some will no doubt disagree on the grounds that some very good ideas may be overlooked from user's who can't contribute to the

exclusive thread.That's a possibility,of course.But the chances of that exist as it stands now.

I'm pretty sure that SI won't ignore the suggestions from the masses and simply concentrate on those from the select few,either.

Some people simply have a better insight into how to improve the game than others and if they are all providing regular feedback in

an exclusive thread then surely we all benefit with an even better game?.

[GoGa70]

There are people from far away lands that don't speak very good english therefore text speaking makes communicating for those people even harder and is therefore and quite rightly so, not allowed.

I didn't say it should be allowed I just said it's too harsh.

The point of the board is communicating not bullying. This rule will be a direct bullying by admin/mods.

Personally I think the vast majority of bullying comes from so-called regulars who regard anyone who has a problem with the game as a loser.

I suggest a 5-day ban to whoever says 'It's your tactics'

[Kriss]

A lot of good points and suggestions, they almost all point to a need for more effective moderation.

That's in no way a criticism of our current moderators, it suggests they're too few in numbers to me.

[Jimbokav1971]

Originally posted by GoGa70:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There are people from far away lands that don't speak very good english therefore text speaking makes communicating for those people even harder and is therefore and quite rightly so, not allowed.

I didn't say it should be allowed I just said it's too harsh.

The point of the board is communicating not bullying. This rule will be a direct bullying by admin/mods.

Personally I think the vast majority of bullying comes from so-called regulars who regard anyone who has a problem with the game as a loser.

I suggest a 5-day ban to whoever says 'It's your tactics' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would you prefer that we lie to them?

The big one at the moment is "My defenders keep scoring own foals from 40 yards out! The game is cheating me!" I've stopped telling people that it's their tactics. That doesn't mean that it isn't their tactics because it damn well is! That doesn't make them a loser, it makes them stubborn and unyielding. If they don't want our opinions on why it is happening then they shouldn't ask. They do, so we tell them, but they don't like what they hear, so.......

The more I read your comment the more silly it appears. (Apologies if you are offended my that but it does seem silly to me). You think that a 1 day ban for breaking an existing rule is too harsh, yet you want to introduce a 5 day ban for answering someone's question in a valid and reasonable way .

[Dayle Wood]

Thats the other side of the coin as rightly alluded to by Jimbokov1971.

There are people who ask for help and then abuse us because they don't like the answer we give. This in turn leads to others wading in and predictably the thread about whatever they are talking about descends into people abusing each other.

[Kriss]

We don't need summary justice for every misdemeanour, good moderating usually persuades most people to do the right thing.

Persistent or deliberate offenders get dealt with eventually.

We do need to leave it to the moderators but we do need more of them.

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by GoGa70:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There are people from far away lands that don't speak very good english therefore text speaking makes communicating for those people even harder and is therefore and quite rightly so, not allowed.

I didn't say it should be allowed I just said it's too harsh.

The point of the board is communicating not bullying. This rule will be a direct bullying by admin/mods.

Personally I think the vast majority of bullying comes from so-called regulars who regard anyone who has a problem with the game as a loser.

I suggest a 5-day ban to whoever says 'It's your tactics' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Telling someone its their tactics that have gone askew is still communicating. There are times when that's the plain truth. If someone comes in with a question and he gets the response "Its your tactics" instead of a constructive explanation then I'd say action needs to be taken. However if the OP continues to beleaguer his point and assert that there is something wrong with the game, then judgement needs to be used when someone says "Its your tactics".

We need to differentiate between the various kinds of posters.

a. The bullyboys who do nothing but harass users especially new users

b. Gamers who believe that the game has gone askew and want a better game

c. Generally constructive posters who come in to discuss about different aspects of the game

d. Posters who have a genuine problem that needs to be addressed immediately.

There are other kinds of posters too but those were the general kinds I've noticed

Handling group a, c, and d is easy. Its handling group b that's the challenge. Within this group there are two types:

Constructive/Destructive

Would having a separate sub-forum be the way to go for these people? Where a methodology is laid out for them to raise issues, much like what we do during beta-testing. The flip side of all this is that they will want everything they recommend to be implemented into the game.

[Kriss]

But we have the appropriate sub forums, people will always come to GQ because they get the biggest audience here.

How many time have you seen "I posted on the bugs forum but nobody answered"?

Another sub forum will just mean another place to direct people to from here.

The problem is bad behaviour, the solution is policing but policing isn't a black and white thing, it's "using the minimum force needed"

To do it properly needs more man hours spent on it.

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by Dayle Wood:

Thats the other side of the coin as rightly alluded to by Jimbokov1971.

There are people who ask for help and then abuse us because they don't like the answer we give. This in turn leads to others wading in and predictably the thread about whatever they are talking about descends into people abusing each other.

I agree with that sentiment. There are plenty of good posters who make the effort to help people out, some go through the effort of writing long threads to explain a certain point. But in trying to help people they sometimes get lambasted and end up having to defend the game, before you know it descends to namecalling. I for one don't tolerate that in the tactics and training forum and I tend to take action against people who make things too far.

Hijacking of brilliant threads for the sake of complaining about the game is also done, and I find that very saddening at times.

We need to protect the forums and ensure that we have some form of quality control. Asking someone to be constructive is a major challenge because people have different yardsticks for determining what is a constructive argument.

I believe that more needs to be and can be done to ensure that the quality posters stay or return.

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by Kriss:

But we have the appropriate sub forums, people will always come to GQ because they get the biggest audience here.

How many time have you seen "I posted on the bugs forum but nobody answered"?

Another sub forum will just mean another place to direct people to from here.

The problem is bad behaviour, the solution is policing but policing isn't a black and white thing, it's "using the minimum force needed"

To do it properly needs more man hours spent on it.

I agree let's face the facts. We can be unduly harsh on people for posting something in GQ. There are times when there aren't a lot of people around O in all the forums except for OTF and GQ.

Some sense needs to be used, and its perfectly understandable why someone would post here instead of in the Editors Hideaway for instance. Remember, to someone that could be a major problem that needs to be addressed immediately.

[Dayle Wood]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

Asking someone to be constructive is a major challenge because people have different yardsticks for determining what is a constructive argument.

It comes down to people showing respect and maturity on here. Not always in abundance sadly.

[muncherdave]

To be honest i dont like the idea of karma or any other reward system. If, for example, the user that has the highest amount of karma on the entire site one day breaks a rule they should be punished in the same manner as the lowest, so it makes the whole system a little pointless other than rewarding people for being decent on the forum, which is how they should be anyway.

Do we really need treats to be nice people here, isn't the gratification of helping another user when they are in trouble enough? And is it going to make a big difference in stopping the real issue (abuse)?

Strict guidelines on what are and are not acceptable are necessary here I feel, I'm sure once they get laid down some regular users would help by reporting posts like they have with other rulebreakings. The main problem is where to draw the line however, a lot of things like sarcasm can be misinterpreted because its just in text form when the users intent may actually be innocent and humourous, and before you know it every thread has a post that could be seen to be abusive when they are tongue in cheek.

Oh, and if people are going to be complaining they haven't seen whatever new rules you are going to put in place, you could always just do a mass email or private message, with whatever rule(s) come from this issue and maybe all the other rules as a reminder in there. People have no excuse to have not seen them then.

[Rashidi]

To a large extent I'd agree with muncherdave's sentiments. Rules and rules and people need to understand these rules when they sign up.

I have come across posters on other forums who have said hey intend to create a "firestorm" here to get a reaction from SI, and we need to be alert to all this as well.

Generally we need to tighten up on misbehaving members and the punishment should be the same regardless of karma points.

[Dayle Wood]

Its usually pretty east to distinguish sarcasm from genuine abuse though. There can be some leeway with sarcasm if there is some doubt... perhaps just a verbal warning.

Actual abuse though is the biggest issue.

As for the whole karma thing and equality with the way people are treated thats fair enough, however people that have been on here a long time have a history and therefore the mods will know generally if that person is abusive as a matter of their character.

The newer folk don't have that history so it is harder to ascertain whether they are genuine or not.

[Jimbokav1971]

rashidi What I've noticed over the last year or so is that people are being drawn away from GQ and I must admit that it sometimes takes a bit of a special effort to get me back in.

The challenge forum seemed like a good idea at the time, but what it has done is take a small nucleus of posters away from GQ and now many of them only post in the dafuge/Gundo thread, or at least post most often only in them. Those 2 threads have almost become a microcosm of the whole forum. Each is moderated by the thread starter, (and other regulars), and there is never any problem. What they say goes, and if you don't like it, post somewhere else. The threads are very open and can be off-topic but both are soooooooo friendly compared to the rest of the forum. Interestingly, many of the people who have been accused of being "forum police" in the past, frequent these 2 threads, but don't often post in GQ anymore.

Now I appreciate that this isn't what you want as a Mod and it certainly isn't in the best interests of SI or the forum as a whole, but I'm honestly not sure how you go about rectifying the situation.

I NEVER venture into T&TGF because that's part of the battle for me, and if I was to do so, it would ruin the game for me. For the same reason I have never been into GPG forum or the Editors hideaway. I used to post in the FMS forum before Eve had her breakdown all them years ago, but non longer go in there either. I'm not the sort of person that has a desire to post much about stuff other than FM so the OTF is out for me. That leaves me with LLM, (which is idyllic), GQ, (which is anything but), and dafuge and Gundo's thread in the challenge forum, (which is almost like a secret hideaway.

I'm not sure what I'm suggesting here, I'm really just typing as i'm thinking. It's just frustrating that parts of the forum work so well and others so poorly.

I suppose when it comes down to it there needs to be a line drawn. SI need to spell out what is and isn't acceptable and have to be willing and able to enforce those rulings. Until they do that we can all talk as much as we want about a direction or a carding system or anything else.

I'm guessing that this whole conversation has been partly brought up by the general poor shape of GQ, (and SI's desire to get info about their product to the masses), but I'm also sure the guy who topped himself after abuse in a forum a couple of weeks ago is fresh in many peoples minds.

I don't think there needs to be a Karma system of any other system.

There need to be clear and distinct rules and they need to be enforced. End of.

[Dayle Wood]

The guy that toped himself wasn't part of SI forums though was he?

[Jimbokav1971]

I was gonna post a joke that it was Ackter after all the abuse he has received over the last year or so, but as that is in poor taste I won't .

[GoGa70]

The more I read your comment the more silly it appears. (Apologies if you are offended my that but it does seem silly to me). You think that a 1 day ban for breaking an existing rule is too harsh, yet you want to introduce a 5 day ban for answering someone's question in a valid and reasonable way .

LOL I meant to show the silliness of it alright, just like I thought banning for textspeak is. Sorry if you didn't get my sarcasm

[GoGa70]

The big one at the moment is "My defenders keep scoring own foals from 40 yards out! The game is cheating me!" I've stopped telling people that it's their tactics. That doesn't mean that it isn't their tactics because it damn well is! That doesn't make them a loser, it makes them stubborn and unyielding. If they don't want our opinions on why it is happening then they shouldn't ask. They do, so we tell them, but they don't like what they hear, so.......

Personally I don't believe scoring 40 yards own-goals should be tactics. The problem with the game is lack of transparency - unless you have serious time on your hands you can't figure out exactly what a certain combination of settings leads to. Hence the frustration. And ****ed posters. Make tactical module simpler - or make a good tutorial along the lines of you pick short passing/ high time wasting the defenders will start passing back to the GK and score own goals.

[Dayle Wood]

this is a thread about member behaviour on the forums mate.

[Ackter]

Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

I was gonna post a joke that it was Ackter after all the abuse he has received over the last year or so, but as that is in poor taste I won't .

In the words of Ted - "Boing flip".

Do you honestly think any abuse I've received actually effects me?

[Jimbokav1971]

No, not for a minute. But that doesn't mean it doesn't bother me.