FM2010 No More Tackling?

[big_bob]

Someone should post the offical tackling stats from last year's Premiership. In my game, sometimes a deffender makes 3 or 4 successful tackles in a game, then in the next one he makes none.

I remember I've had a game where my DM made 6 successful tackles from 6 attempted. That's very rare, but when it happened I felt very good.

[The_B.E.R.T.]

What really annoys me about this issue is not that the defenders aren't tackling enough (as long as I don't concede too much they're doing something right, right?), but I just totally find it ridiculous that my ass. man tells me that my defenders are tackling so poorly. That is something I see in every match.

So besides the whole discussion about it the numbers being realistic or not, it's a very real problem.

One that should be fixed, gamebreaker or not.

[PaulC]

What really annoys me about this issue is not that the defenders aren't tackling enough (as long as I don't concede too much they're doing something right, right?), but I just totally find it ridiculous that my ass. man tells me that my defenders are tackling so poorly. That is something I see in every match.

So besides the whole discussion about it the numbers being realistic or not, it's a very real problem.

One that should be fixed, gamebreaker or not.

That is definitely a fair point, I will pass it onto the coder who can fix it.....

[PaulC]

I think it's an issue. Severity is one of opinion. I think it could be improved upon but not a game breaker for me.

Paul, I think, said they will look at it so it's certainly not being ignored.

He also said this, combined with attacking prowess is the toughest part of the ME to tweak.

This is about the size of it I think. Its certainly something we are looking at, but we dont see things as broken as you do Garry, which is your perogative

[Hammer1000]

This is about the size of it I think. Its certainly something we are looking at, but we dont see things as broken as you do Garry, which is your perogative

Paul mate, i know this game is supposed to be aimed at football fans, but i was wondering if you could change the advertising to include the fact that it is only acceptable to those footie fans who do not really know anything about football or how it is played?

Cheers

[Lork]

I have noticed this too, I'll be lucky for a player to tackle more than once a game. We all know what a tackle is and from what I've seen tackles are defined the same as they are in 09. I like 10 alot but there are so many bugs, it seems really unpolished.

[Hammer1000]

An infraction, for what?

[olfrud]

OK, my game will arrive within days, but is this tackling problem ruining the game or it's just a minor bug?

[PaulC]

Play it and make up your own mind. The vast majority of people on here and the vast majority of our beta testers appear to be happy but its your own opinion that counts.....the demo is available if you dont want to wait.

[Mensell76]

Play it and make up your own mind. The vast majority of people on here and the vast majority of our beta testers appear to be happy but its your own opinion that counts.....the demo is available if you dont want to wait.

PaulC if you count in the people who do not care to react as the vast majority then you are probably right. I have not read a lot of people claiming to be happy about the defensive work of players in FM2010.

The problem is obvious and it is not subjective: defensive work in FM2010 is reactive instead of proactive. You have seen prove of that.

As long as midfielders get all the time in the world to pass around the ball and midfielders and strikers can control a ball without every really getting attacked this game is just not realistic by any means. Everyone only has to watch a few full matches before realising that the problem really is quite big. Players do not close down, do not tackle a lot, do not get into physical battles a lot. If the ball is passed over the ground, we see players with freedom all over the place.

Yes I do applaud the attacking gameplay, I love the smooth attacks and the variety. In many ways FM2010 3d is beating FMN2009. However defending is 50 percent of a match though. I have passed 10 matches over to SI and I have even passed on a match of FM2009 in which I think defending was great. It surprises me that SI still does not want to take a stand on this issue.

At the end of the day SI seems to be afraid to change the defending, because changing the defending will also have a big influence on how attacks are constructed in the match engine. If the defensive works is altered then the attacking work also needs to be adjusted. It means too much work I guess.

[Sonic2006]

I do think there is a problem, maybe its not huge but I have played about 80 games (of football) on the Demo and around 120 on the full game (10.1) and tackling averages at about

3 tackles per game for defensive players when play is equal across the pitch

4.5 tackles per game when under the cost

attacking players this is 2 and 3.

That is definately not enough attempted tackles, considering the average for tackles won rollercoasters.

(My own stats from this past week)

Unfortunately that game just crashed on a save and I have lost it, just my luck as I was enjoying it too.

[Chandaman]

I don't think it's about what numbers are reported, what counts as a tackle and what doesn't and so on.

I'm still with the demo but, I kid you not, the -first- thing that jumped at me during the -first- pre-season match I had arranged was, precisely, how unreal the defense was behaving.

We're still having the same problems we've ever had, at least since 2004/5 (when we got the 2D engine, whenever it was):

- Players (including keepers) completely losing attention, regularly, and not running 4 steps to get a ball right next to them, giving time to an attacker to come from way behind and nick it. Does it happen IRL? No doubt. Often? No.

- Pressing that doesn't really press. I don't know what conceptual definition of pressing FM has been using, but the way I was taught and the way it's evident by watching any team in the world who plays a pressing game, is to physically choke room for whatever opposition player has the ball, in order to force to make mistakes and recover the ball, to prevent them from developing their game, or both. Pressing in FM seems to be halfway between pressing and not pressing; let's get close, but not close enough and let's not commit too much. And if real physical pressing doesn't happen much, if players do not come in close proximity of each other, you'll naturally see less tackles because you cannot tackle from 5 yards away.

- What was said above about reactive and proactive. You can observe this -easily- whenever there's a loose ball in any area of the pitch. Seems the AI cannot anticipate which player is closer to the ball and will get to it first, so it waits until the player actually comes in contact with the ball to begin switching to defense or offense as needed. This simply does not happen in real life. At all. Defenders not realizing an opposition player is going to get a ball and only waiting until he gets it to fall back, thus gifting major amounts of space and momentum to the opposition, is easy to observe. But that's been happening in FM since whenever. If it hasn't been fixed by now, then I don't know.

I'm not happy at all with the defending I'm seeing in the demo. For whatever reason, it's much more evident in '10 than '09. Defenders are stiff, movements are unrealistic, they do not get close to attackers on time (and sometimes not at all), they leave tons of space, they generally seem uncoordinated and easy pickings to whatever front line of whatever quality and so on. I won't be picking '10 until I see many reports by players of this issue being resolved and we can get something at least resembling how a real world defensive line moves and acts.

[lance101]

I believe that part of the pressing problem comes from catering to 2d... If you see the game in 3d, it seems like players have a force field around them, within which the opposing players cannot get in, in order to effectively press. This also brings the related problem of, as the players don't get within short distance of an attacker, the attacker cannot cleverly dribble past him with skillful close range trickery. I believe this is so, because of the giant subuteos players are in 2d, which makes every player occupy a unreasonably big area of space. Sigames, trying to cater to fans of this older view, hasn't taken the necessary steps to make the 3d view more similar to what happens in the better 3d views of simulated football (like fifa or pes, even in oldgen).

[Mitja]

It's an interesting point but it supposed to work that way already. Perhaps the poster can help us out by providing some clear cut examples :-)

clear cut example would be watching real football comapred to FM game. and how closing down/defending works.

I think it's obvious in FM that defenders are not able to anticipate and will always wait until player receives the ball, to start pressing. as result attacking player will have time and space to play the ball on, which wouldn't happen in real life.

those two posts above mine explain this issue.

[PaulC]

Its been worked on for 10.2 already and in beta.

[Marek_Hamsik]

Hi Paul,

I see how you have stated that if you boost defensive play, you will need to adjust the attacking side of the game.

My apologies if I do not understand exactly how the code works, but why would you need to boost attacking?

Finally you have made a very decent game in aspect of attacking. I see one on ones scored, I see long range goals, players trying aggressively find the net, and also run to the line to get in a last effort cross.

Attacking at the moment is spot on but there are also a lot of goals scored from strikers (mainly too many attempts), and a lot of long range goal attempts only because of a lack of closing down and poor tackling and defensive aggression.

The game actually is fantastic when it comes to corners and aerial play, looks brilliant and realistic.

Surely just upping closing down/successful tackling and marking a tad, would not require an attacking overhaul?

I think you are very close to "as good as it gets" when it comes to the match engine Paul, you guys are doing a great job.

In a few years, we will be seeing graphics matching Pro Evo/Fifa and your fantastic engine for our FM games.

Despite the little annoyances, I am enjoying FM2010. (A little too much)

[bigdunk]

Attacking would need to be boosted because for the most part, the scorelines are fairly realistic at the moment. So if defenders were suddenly defending better, most games would finish 0-0 or 1-0, then there would be uproar.

[PaulC]

Early days, but in 10.2 work in progress I have beefed up closing down a bit and its not affected the no of goals drastically as yet. So it may be this concern is moot, although its also possible I havent made a good job of the changes so far

[lance101]

PaulC, if you need to improve attacking, please give us more close range dribble moves!!! A player with the attributes like a Zidane would never be able to get past defenders in FM10 in a regular basis, because he wouldn't be fast enough... the only way to consistently get past players in this game is the Shawn Wright Phillips/Aaron Lennon way.

[Mitja]

Attacking would need to be boosted because for the most part, the scorelines are fairly realistic at the moment. So if defenders were suddenly defending better, most games would finish 0-0 or 1-0, then there would be uproar.

what they need to do is to make whole defensive aspect to be more represantive of real life football. attacking side has always been stronger side of FM. for example I can't believe after all these years strikers can still score 30 goals easily, closing down has never worked decently, defending looked better on 930...

[Teddster]

I didnt notice the Tackling in the demo, maybe i didnt pay attention. But now i play in league 1 (france). 12 matches into the 2nd season, my DC who has played 12 matches, has made 9 tackles. compared to random EPL DC, Michael Turner (sunderland) 65 taclkes in 12 matches, Jan Simunek (Wolfsburg) 47 tackles in 10 games.

In the league i play the tackling per game is all time low, and defending is all time bad. I have found out though, that some DC's do make tackles, the ones with dives into tackles, seem to get a normal amount of tackles, 12 tackles in 3 games, maybe something to look at. If it's not fixed soon, ill have to edit all my players to get that prefered move.

[data6930]

Just a quick point.

The challenges in the game where the defending player gets a kind of short clearance on the ball arent being logged as succesful tackles by the ME. I could change that, and my estimation is that would increase tackles by around 10 per game and completed % by around 10-20% per game.

What is the consensus on this? I could only change it for 10.2 as 10.1 is locked btw.....

I could also look at the example of a defender nicking the ball from a dribbling player as posted by Isuckatfm above, if indeed it is a different situation to what I have described

Paul with implementing a change of this nature would you have to start a new game for it to take effect or will current games be fine, in other words the tackling improved straight aaway in a saved game.

I also think this may be a reason why for me far too many goals are being scored in games your team is involved in, if so, will we see a reduction of goals scored?

Thanks

Gary

[PaulC]

Well, there arent too many goals across the board, so I wouldnt expect to see less in 10.2. But we have improved closing down in beta testing and we are now counting tackles a little more realistically.

That said, if your games are producing too many goals overall that has to be tactical in some way, and I cant see how these changes will affect that but you never know.

[mightymind]

Paul,

Is it possible to see 2 or 3 players on an opponent to cath the ball, I've never seen it yet.

Thanks

[PaulC]

Dont follow, sorry......

[Mitja]

Well, there arent too many goals across the board, so I wouldnt expect to see less in 10.2. But we have improved closing down in beta testing and we are now counting tackles a little more realistically.

That said, if your games are producing too many goals overall that has to be tactical in some way, and I cant see how these changes will affect that but you never know.

I'm sure you are aware of these things but it might be interesting to hear what you think about it:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=167497

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=168395

[data6930]

Well, there arent too many goals across the board, so I wouldnt expect to see less in 10.2. But we have improved closing down in beta testing and we are now counting tackles a little more realistically.

That said, if your games are producing too many goals overall that has to be tactical in some way, and I cant see how these changes will affect that but you never know.

Paul, regards high scoring games (With the team you are playing as) does seem to be an issue, I have seen a few threads about this and another one with some background stats has surfaced which you may want to have a read through.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=167497

Gary

[PaulC]

Yeah I saw that, seems we may be a little high but then if you take the EPL in real life its outscoring past seasons so far in 09/10 so perhaps our fingers are right on the pulse

What we cant do is tune the number of goals according to results from human matches. Its simply impossible.

[data6930]

Paul thanks for taking a look at that. For me the other matches are absolutely spot on results wise it is purely your own teams matches which are high scoring, whilst it may be argued tactics play a part in this I do feel the number of goals in your teams matches are on the high side. It may be that something needs tightening in the match engine on the tactics side.

Gary

[PaulC]

Ok, lets get some data.....can anyone with the inclination post the following, please base it on at least 25 matches:

- Your team and division

- The average goals their team scores per game they play

- The average goals scored by the opposition

- Their general strategy used ( standard, counter, control etc )

- Normal formation

- Do you tend to ease off in games when ahead?

- Do you play more defensively away from home?

- What shouts do you use most and when?

Cheers,

Paul

[data6930]

Once I have completed 25 games I can post something for you, but in the meantime here are the stats from 10 games completed if it is of any use.

In the 10 games I have played I have scored 44 goals and conceded 2 so far. I am playing as Man United in the Premier division. I have kept to a standard tactic and have n't eased off even when ahead. I use a standard 4 4 2 formation with defenders set to defend, 1 midfielder as playmaker defensive and 1 Midfielder as box to box support. The only shouts I have used in games are "Get stuck In". I do alter things as the Assistant Manager suggests, for example targeting an opposition player to get them to use weaker foot, and close down an opponent. In the main I close down always, tackling set to more aggressive. I use zonal marking. Opposition tends to be set as standard stragedy

Away from home I tend to play on the counter attack but keep the rest of tactics the same as above.

I know it is only a 10 match data feedback but it may help. I will do a much fuller breakdown once I get to the 25 game mark.

Cheers

Gary

[stoned_assasin]

Let your own eyes be the judge - that is what the demo is for

Thats exactly what i did, and im glad i didnt get put off by the whining because i would have missed out on the best version of the game yet. i havent really noticed a problem so far with the tackling either and im in my 4th season with Cambridge City in the lower leagues. You guys have gone from zero (09 version) to hero with this version. One thing that i would have hoped you would of improved on though is the minor detail of having to wait so long for the players to gather the ball on set plays especially corners(but thats another topic that i've already made a thread about).

[mightymind]

Sorry Paul for my bad english, what I meant is :

- you have planned to improve tackle and closing down

But will you improve the movements of player, in FM2010, the players seems too static and in my opinion, this gives to the opponent team more opportunity for attack, so more goals.

It seems in the match that their "eyes are weak", they will react to catch the ball only when the ball will be close to them.

Did you plan to improve this area?

Thanks.

Dont follow, sorry......

[PaulC]

Yes, I have tried to improve player reactions to the ball :-)

[mightymind]

I'm now very happy and very impatient for the next patch, yeah !!!

Thanks Paul

[Teddster]

Do you know about when the next patch is due Paul?

I have also noticed a few other "bugs" in the ME, but they might be fixed with the player reactions

- Players that "rubberband" backwards on the pitch, when they seem to have control chasing the ball, only to let the opposition player get there first.

- Players that strafe, jog, walk towards the ball when they are chasing a ball, they are often closer and should get the ball with ease, but get beaten often resulting in a counterattack, with a throughball and goal

[PaulC]

No date set yet. If you want to provide examples of those issues ( ie send me a pkm and description ) I would be happy to check they are fixed for 10.2.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Paul, is there a chance that actual blocking of shots and passes gets somehow coded in the game in the foreseeable future? This, I think, is and has always been one of the main reasons why defensive tactics in FM are significantly less effective than they are in reality. Players in FM block the ball only if it's hit pretty much straight at them. There seems to be no code whatsoever for sticking a foot out or throwing ones body in front of a shot. In reality when a reasonably solid team is set up to 'park the bus' it can work well because the other team has to work the ball around the defense by using skill and drawing players out. In FM they can simply pass the ball through a pack of players or smack it in from 30 yards because unless they are unlucky enough to hit it straight at someone it will go through very easily. It's also the reason why long shots have never been 'right' in any version (and I don't mean statistically but rather how it's displayed).

Edit: while I'm at it, could someone please explain to me what the hell are my defenders attempting to do here (the player with the ball is taking a free kick)

I think you can all guess what the result of this was.

[anthony wright]

No date set yet. If you want to provide examples of those issues ( ie send me a pkm and description ) I would be happy to check they are fixed for 10.2.

I haven't bought FM10 yet as I am still enjoying my two saves in FM09 too much. I may not even bother as it would seem that after the initial impact where everyone was over the mon saying that there were no bugs and this was the best version by far, now a few weeks after release there seems to be a growing army of disatisfied customers.

What I really don't understand is this if the defending is as bad as some people are saying why was this not picked up by the testers before release

[PaulC]

Paul, is there a chance that actual blocking of shots and passes gets somehow coded in the game in the foreseeable future? This, I think, is and has always been one of the main reasons why defensive tactics in FM are significantly less effective than they are in reality. Players in FM block the ball only if it's hit pretty much straight at them. There seems to be no code whatsoever for sticking a foot out or throwing ones body in front of a shot. In reality when a reasonably solid team is set up to 'park the bus' it can work well because the other team has to work the ball around the defense by using skill and drawing players out. In FM they can simply pass the ball through a pack of players or smack it in from 30 yards because unless they are unlucky enough to hit it straight at someone it will go through very easily. It's also the reason why long shots have never been 'right' in any version (and I don't mean statistically but rather how it's displayed).

They do block them in the way you describe. I think the range is almost a meter although the direction the player is facing or moving will affect that.

I haven't bought FM10 yet as I am still enjoying my two saves in FM09 too much. I may not even bother as it would seem that after the initial impact where everyone was over the mon saying that there were no bugs and this was the best version by far, now a few weeks after release there seems to be a growing army of disatisfied customers.

What I really don't understand is this if the defending is as bad as some people are saying why was this not picked up by the testers before release

Well overall the beta testing was a big success, but yes one or two areas have been or are being improved as a result of feedback from these forums and hopefully that will help both SI and our beta testers to make an even better job of things in the future.

[isuckatfm]

Paul, is there a chance that actual blocking of shots and passes gets somehow coded in the game in the foreseeable future? This, I think, is and has always been one of the main reasons why defensive tactics in FM are significantly less effective than they are in reality. Players in FM block the ball only if it's hit pretty much straight at them. There seems to be no code whatsoever for sticking a foot out or throwing ones body in front of a shot. In reality when a reasonably solid team is set up to 'park the bus' it can work well because the other team has to work the ball around the defense by using skill and drawing players out. In FM they can simply pass the ball through a pack of players or smack it in from 30 yards because unless they are unlucky enough to hit it straight at someone it will go through very easily. It's also the reason why long shots have never been 'right' in any version (and I don't mean statistically but rather how it's displayed).

Edit: while I'm at it, could someone please explain to me what the hell are my defenders attempting to do here (the player with the ball is taking a free kick)

I think you can all guess what the result of this was.

Possible example of why in my opinion set piece defending should be hard coded, but one question would be is the screenshot of the taker placing the ball or just as he is about to take it? Just to note this isn't me dismissing your problem as it is an issue in my opinion when players get that open (although I don't think the wider ones to the the taker's right should be marked ultra tight).

But at the same time let me ask you this, which do you think should come first? Obviously I can't watch every game of football that has ever been played but instinctively to me it looks wrong that the attacking side only has the taker around the ball and all other 'forward' players lined up in the box. Also a 5 man wall is also potentially questionable given the number of attackers in the box but again I would probably not even be 50% confident in that statement.

Reading the above is the reason I ask which do you think should come first. What if in real life an attacking team decided to set up like this? Do you think the GK or team would take men from the wall to cover the wider players (not specifically referencing your screenshot as the 4 blue players doing nothing looks off)? Has anyone ever seen a routine that looked like this in real life?

[PaulC]

Btw I have tweaked defending of these types of free kicks since 10.1 was released.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Possible example of why in my opinion set piece defending should be hard coded, but one question would be is the screenshot of the taker placing the ball or just as he is about to take it? Just to note this isn't me dismissing your problem as it is an issue in my opinion when players get that open (although I don't think the wider ones to the the taker's right should be marked ultra tight).

But at the same time let me ask you this, which do you think should come first? Obviously I can't watch every game of football that has ever been played but instinctively to me it looks wrong that the attacking side only has the taker around the ball and all other 'forward' players lined up in the box. Also a 5 man wall is also potentially questionable given the number of attackers in the box but again I would probably not even be 50% confident in that statement.

Reading the above is the reason I ask which do you think should come first. What if in real life an attacking team decided to set up like this? Do you think the GK or team would take men from the wall to cover the wider players (not specifically referencing your screenshot as the 4 blue players doing nothing looks off)? Has anyone ever seen a routine that looked like this in real life?

The screenshot is about 0.5 seconds before the the free kick is taken, the ball was passed to one of the four standing to the right of the wall for an easy finish. If it's a result of set piece tactics then I suggest the defaults should be changed as the tactic is created through the wizard.

In real life the four players standing outside the box would all be back there marking those wide open men. if there are still free attacking players then yes, the wall must be sacrificed. A GK with any sense will not use man marking players in his wall instead. Also in the situation above no 19 pushing up a couple of yards will eliminate the threat immediately. There's absolutely no reason for him to just stand there.

They do block them in the way you describe. I think the range is almost a meter although the direction the player is facing or moving will affect that.

If it is then it's not working effectively enough at all as it really makes me tear out my hair in frustration seeing the ball fly through several players while no-one even tries to get a foot in. I'll look to post .pkm's in the future as well.

Btw I have tweaked defending of these types of free kicks since 10.1 was released.

That's good to hear

Edit: another thing that bugs me no end is the positioning of the GK and his wall during FK's. Look at the one on the screenshot. The wall is smack right in the middle of the goal. So is the GK. What's the point of the wall if the only thing it's going to cover is the part of the goal you're going to stand at yourself? The whole point of setting up a wall is to cover one half of the goal so you can cover the another half yourself. Furthermore, by standing behind the wall the GK is seriously restricting his own view. It leaves him almost no time to react to the ball as he's only going to see it after it's over or past the wall.

[master_wu]

What I want to say is when player tackling, he will keep his pose on the ground for a long time, and stand suddenly. I think there are many works to do, especially on adding more animations

[SCIAG]

I spent Reading's last two home matches counting the tackles made by Pearce and Ingimarsson, our centre backs. Okay, it isn't the largest sample, but I found the results interesting once put into context. For the record, I only counted definite tackles, not blocks, interceptions, or headers, and only successful tackles.

Ipswich

Ingimarsson 11 (8/3)

Pearce 3 (2/1)

Blackpool

Ingimarsson 3

Pearce 1

Okay, that's quite a wide variation. Part of the reason is that I was too busy watching the second half of the Blackpool match to count :o The numbers in the brackets are first/second half.

Some analysis. The Ipswich match was a typical scrap between two poor sides. Every ball from their defence was high. It would be controlled by their midfield, given to Stead, who would be tackled by Ingimarsson. Reading tried to keep possession a bit more, but Howard and Matejovsky in midfield were a bit ambitious with their passing. The passes that worked from those two tended to give Church and Rasiak a goalscoring chance, but those chances were squandered. A few players were out of position (a left winger at right back, a central midfielder on the left wing, a left winger on the right wing) which didn't help. So, the potential for tackles was much higher, especially in the first half. In the second half, Ipswich tired, and Reading started to click a bit more.

As for the Blackpool match: both sides tried to keep possession. Howard and Matejovsky looked to get the ball wide. Reading used two natural wingers on their prefered flanks, which gave more options.

[Kadesh]

Ok, lets get some data.....can anyone with the inclination post the following, please base it on at least 25 matches:

- Your team and division

- The average goals their team scores per game they play

- The average goals scored by the opposition

- Their general strategy used ( standard, counter, control etc )

- Normal formation

- Do you tend to ease off in games when ahead?

- Do you play more defensively away from home?

- What shouts do you use most and when?

wigan, premier league

in 20 games scored 37 goals (1,85/game)

concede 35 goals (1,75/game)

counter

442 diamond

i ease off at 2-0 and 90% of the time, immediately after hitting confirm i concede one goal

i play defensively away and at home against better league positioned teams (6th place and above)

when the opposition has a lot of chances i use take a breather and retain position

when i'm one goal down i use get ball forward and turn to a quick tempo with direct passing

i have only one clean sheet in 20 games

here comes the best part : in this 20 games, NOT counting any of my games, i repeat, NOT counting my games, the are 16 results with 6 or more goals scored. In real life premier league 2008/2009 there where 11 results with 6 or more games in the entire season.

in european champions cup (i was not involved in the competition): 27 games with 5 or more goals only in group stage, in real life champions league 2008/2009, only 9 games with 5 or more goals

[PaulC]

Many thanks Kadesh. Is there any possibility of getting your saved game onto our ftp server?

[Sussex Hammer]

Reading this something occured to me. Has anyone actually seem a penalty given for a bad tackle or trip? I have got and conceded a few panalties and if memory serves it is always after a cross or long ball into the box and therefore given for climbing or holding.

[Kadesh]

i am now uploading the game save, it's called kadesh_wigan after 20 games.fm! it's gonna take about 20minutes.

[stevereay]

This is not a rant just the observations i have found.

From my experience the game is very poor at present on this front. I have read a lot of posts about tackling and closing down and have tried my best to implement the suggested solutions but have had no luck all all in resolving this. Many people have this problem when creating a tactic using the tactics creator. It has been suggested that this is what the AI uses to formulate tactics then if thats true they are maximising this. Even using the old slider format does not solve this problem.

I have done some analysis and my only line of thinking is one of two problems.

1. The match engine is broken.

In answer to this i have analysed my stats for tackling compared to the AI. If they match then the engine is broken. However my research indicates this is not the case as you will see in the screen shots posted below.

2. The AI knows the exact settings to apply to close down and tackle.

This seems to be the more likely answer to me. The match engine is tuned in such a way that a specific combination works to close down, tackle and not concede goals. The answer is there we just cant find it.

Before i post the screenshots here is how i line up. I play 4-4-2. I play this because its the most common formation in football and if i play a simulation game then i should be able to play that tactic. Centrebacks defend completely. Full backs support the midfield but concerntrate on defending. Centre mids are there to break up play but create aswell. Wingers attack but get back and defend.

In my game which has spanned 4 seasons now i have found a major difference in the spine of my time closing down compared to the opposition. heres the screen shots.

This is the guy i signed to form my CB pairing. Playing under AI control at his former club. Tackling stats look solid

He signs for me and the tackling plummets.

This next player is my best CM the man who wins the ball for me. good stats as you can see.

Tackles very well under AI control

And not under human control

In the seasons i have played i have conceeded 47 in the 1st, 68 in the 2nd, 62 in the 3rd and 59 in the 4th. I average 8 sendings off a season. the above all leads me to thinking the sendings off is not a separate issue but part of the same one. Tackling and closing down do seem to work for the AI but not for human play.

Id be interested to see if anyone else has this in their game.