FM2010 No More Tackling?

[fmobande]

when i watch a FM game, i seriously don't know which defender played the best or which defender is doing good, when a team attackers there is a high percentage that it will succeed in having a shot or that they will do a misplace pass ect , if i had to choose which defender played the best in my team during that month it will be impossible to choose since that the defenders don't try or not do there job that they are suppose to well.

in IRL life people like terry and Vidic are known for tackles ? and pressuring and stopping play , im i right? do they do that in FM no i dont think so it is very hard to say if your defender is doing class, now its just about if the opponents make mistakes instead of your defenders doing great tackles ect.

[Hammer1000]

Had you decided to be involved, you'd have known this was something discussed and decided upon rather than something everybody had missed. We recognise the figures don't match up with OPTA/Sky, but we believe that is because the definitions are different, rather than something being horribly amiss in the ME.

Well according to your previous post, the definition of a tackle should mean that MORE tackles are made, not less(remember we are talking actual tackles made not won, your post 9:31)

I can only respectfully request that you attempt to watch some ACTUAL real life football matches, as then it will be obvious to see the vast difference between RL and FM.

[wwfan]

John Terry has made 17 successful on the deck tackles in 10 games thus far this season.

Real world tackling stats include aerial challenges, which FM doesn't. So, while FM is still on the low side, if you factor in incidents like isuckatfm's screenshot being recognised as a tackle in the real world, I don't see anything heavily amiss, certainly not in the OMG!!!111!!! HOW COULD YOU HAVE MISSED THIS!!!11!!! sense.

Midfielders make far more on the deck tackles than defenders in the real world.

[wwfan]

Well according to your previous post, the definition of a tackle should mean that MORE tackles are made, not less(remember we are talking actual tackles made not won, your post 9:31)

I can only respectfully request that you attempt to watch some ACTUAL real life football matches, as then it will be obvious to see the vast difference between RL and FM.

No. More tackles are being missed. Non contact steals are not being recorded as tackles, which is where I see the main anomoly.

[Hammer1000]

more of defenders' 'steals/interceptions' should be counted as tackles and then everyone would be happy..

How on Earth can an interception(or steal) be counted as a tackle? and just how would this make everyone happy??

A tackle is a tackle and in the FM10 Demo defenders rarely bother to make them and for those who either watch large proportions of their matches or know anything about RL football this is a clear and blatant issue that should need absolutely no discussion whatsoever.

[Mitja]

agreed. but if you pay attention to what's actually happening on the pitch you should see defenders doing their job well. not exellant but defenetly better than in 09. sometimes it's hard to distinguish between a tackle and a steal (isuckatfm's screanshots). it's the metter of definition.

[wwfan]

Vidic has made 11 successful on the deck tackles in 7 games this season. We are looking at top class DCs 'known for their tackling' making an average of 1.5 to 1.7 tackles per game. FM is lower than that, which needs looking at, but anything above 2.0 would also be a problem.

[Hammer1000]

There's been a change in how the ME recognises tackles. All 50-50 fight balls are now considered tackles, meaning the successful percentages are going to be much lower as a large number of tackle situations have to have one player losing the tackle. It doesn't necessarily mean the type of tackles in previous MEs are any lower, as these were based on a tackler challenging a man in full control of the ball.

Look at what you have just said above(first sentence) based on what you just said EVERY close encounter between defender and attacker is recognised as a tackle, the argument you were making in this post was based on a winning tackle% now you have realised what i meant you change tune(is'nt this the usual back and forth we experience, where you backtrack a little and make excuses and i stick to my original argument and still end up being told i'm in the wrong?)

[Hammer1000]

Vidic has made 11 successful on the deck tackles in 7 games this season. We are looking at top class DCs 'known for their tackling' making an average of 1.5 to 1.7 tackles per game. FM is lower than that, which needs looking at, but anything above 2.0 would also be a problem.

A few posts ago you were claiming that a little under 4 tackles a game for "good" defenders was the RL average???

I would again point out that poorer teams actually put in more tackles simply because they are defending MORE of the time, whether these tackles are succesful or not is NOT the issue.

[wwfan]

Garry.

Older MEs over recognised tackles, and failed to take into consideration 50-50 challenges.

The current ME takes into consideration 50-50 challenges but isn't taking into consideration low or non contact steals as in isuckatfm's example.

Many real world stats also include aerial challenges as tackles, which inflates the number made.

Real world stats suggest that top DCs make 1.5 to 1.7 successful on the deck tackles per game, whereas in FM they are making 0.5.

This indicates something is amiss in tackling recognition, but not necessarily that the ME is horrible.

isuckatfm's has provided a perfect example of a good tackle that hasn't been recognised as such. If that happens once per game per DC, stats would be exactly aligned with the real world.

The only question to answer is whether isuckatfm's example is a tackle or not. If it is, then tackle recognition is bad in the ME. If it isn't, then we have an issue with successful tackles, with DC's making one too few per game.

[woody2goody]

He said 'on the deck tackles' not all tackles.

[isuckatfm]

Well i doubt the definition of a tackle has changed from the transition to FM10 from 09, where the average tackles per game were more or less correct... how do you explain a defender going from an average of 4.00 in 09 to 0.5 in FM10?

2007/2008 Tackles attempted and tackle success rate

Reo-Coker 178 79.78%

Mascherano 165 75.76%

Malbranque 158 75.95%

Muamba 156 76.28%

Butt 151 71.52%

Clichy 150 80.67%

Warnock 130 76.92%

McCann 117 65.81%

Brown 116 81.03%

Brown 112 68.75%

Tackles per game

Javier Mascherano 6.60

Nigel Reo-Coker 4.94

Wilson Palacios 4.94

Nicky Butt 4.31

Steed Malbranque 4.27

FM 09

There’s no way for me to state this without sounding condescending so if you want to call me a dick then by all means do so, but the numbers above clearly show there is a big difference between what you think happens in football versus what actually happens. The tackling volume and the percentages won were far too high in FM 09 so that should not be your yardstick. As an example looking at a few EPL matches in FM 09 final patch version total tackles:-

82, 104, 95, 90, 53, 80, 77, 104, 90

According to here http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/mar/06/arsene-wenger-tackling-patrick-battiston-nemanja-vidic by March 6th of last season there was an average of 44.9 tackles per EPL match. Pretty far off the mark I would say.

Do I think the stats as recorded look too low relative to real life? Yes. Do I think players could look to press more aggressively away from the ball? Yes. But if I add in the tackles like the example in the screenshots it would be much closer to real life than FM 09 was.

Hmnnnnn, dont suppose you noticed that not one of your three DC's made a single tackle between them in the entire match???

Not my match, I was just looking for an example of a 'tackle that isn't a tackle' as I thought it might be helpful to people. To answer your question yes I did notice and as wwfan has already stated this was brought up in testing so there is no need for the condescension. Just because something you consider an issue is still in the match engine does not mean it was not brought up in testing or that it is a simple 'fix' or that due to time/resource constraints it got placed lower on the priority list.

If you want to be helpful pick a match, analyse it and explain what you think should be happening while bearing in mind that the overall stats for a season have to measure up roughly to real life. So if the number of tackles on average match up then you can't just say 'have defenders tackle more' as you need to say where tackles should be removed from.

It's the same with the strikers scoring too much. You say improve defending so strikers don't score as much but what if the overall number of goals being scored is about right? How should the match engine be adjusted to compensate for the loss of goals? How would you visualise events playing out in the match engine if defenders contained strikers more? That's the type of analysis that would be useful as opposed to just posting up obvious stats to say something is wrong.

[wwfan]

A few posts ago you were claiming that a little under 4 tackles a game for "good" defenders was the RL average???

I would again point out that poorer teams actually put in more tackles simply because they are defending MORE of the time, whether these tackles are succesful or not is NOT the issue.

No, I am talking central midfielders, with aerial challenges discounted. Two of the leading five tacklers in the Premiership are Liverpool midfielders, which would hardly fit in with the poor team theory. Two are Wigan midfielders.

[Hammer1000]

Originally Posted by wwfan

Real world stats would suggest that, bar the odd freak, the best tacklers average slightly under 4 tackles per game. What stats do you have in the FML demo?

Your post, but a little later you post 1.5 to 1.7 tackles a game(i can quote you if you wish?)

The simple answer is to watch a game or two, something that any Beta Testers(maybe even yourself by the looks of things?) have obviously not done, i have tried a hundred or more tactics designed by what can only be described as TT&F as well as many others and almost every single game(nine out of ten) my Ass Man is telling me we are "Poor in the tackle" that itself is answer enough.

You can "Hard Tackle", "Hassle Opponents", "Get Stuck In", etc, etc but there is little chance your defenders will bother to make even a single challenge during the game, show me much different and your showing me a previous FM.

[wwfan]

Garry, start reading what is written and answer questions that are put directly to you, rather than questioning the competency of the Beta testers. Continue to do that and you will get short shrift.

1: The best tacklers in real life average circa 4 tackles a game. They are, without exception, central midfielders. I have never claimed otherwise and have even posted asking for feedback on tackles per position. Are there any players in your game averaging circa 4 tackles per match and are they midfielders? Or, are they also 1.0 too low across the board?

2: Defenders 'known for their tackling' make circa 1.6 tackles per game. We have accepted that 0.5 is too low, but have provided an example of when a tackle might not be recognised as such, which could be the reason. In your opinion, is it a tackle?

3: Because tackling has been redefined, the Ass Man is likely to always state you are poor in the tackle. This is an issue that needs looking at, but relates to successful percentages, not tackles made. Again, I want to find out your tackling percentages for midfielders and your opinion on isuckatfm's example. Tackle or not?

Just to let you know, isuckatfm and I don't agree 100% on many things, including tackling, and often butt heads over how things are working. However, he backs up his opinions with cold, hard facts, which gets him listened to and taken very seriously.

[mightymind]

The pb is not about what is the meaning of tackle in RL and FM, the pb is that when you see the match, you won't find so much fight for the ball, but why ? For me it's because I've noticed that when a player is having the ball, is surrounded by 1 or 2 player who are not moving to catch the ball or take some creative position to intercept he ball. For me, it's a pb of reaction of the player,the distance in the engine match from where the player start to react is too near !! We have to make the reaction of player increase and then you will see more interceptions, tackles, as the AI is well done. The only thing missing is to improve the movement of player by increasing their reaction arround the ball, that is the key of the pb for me.

[Mitja]

what does pb meen?

[Hammer1000]

Garry, start reading what is written and answer questions that are put directly to you, rather than questioning the competency of the Beta testers. Continue to do that and you will get short shrift.

1: The best tacklers in real life average circa 4 tackles a game. They are, without exception, central midfielders. I have never claimed otherwise and have even posted asking for feedback on tackles per position. Are there any players in your game averaging circa 4 tackles per match and are they midfielders? Or, are they also 1.0 too low across the board?

2: Defenders 'known for their tackling' make circa 1.6 tackles per game. We have accepted that 0.5 is too low, but have provided an example of when a tackle might not be recognised as such, which could be the reason. In your opinion, is it a tackle?

3: Because tackling has been redefined, the Ass Man is likely to always state you are poor in the tackle. This is an issue that needs looking at, but relates to successful percentages, not tackles made. Again, I want to find out your tackling percentages for midfielders and your opinion on isuckatfm's example. Tackle or not?

Just to let you know, isuckatfm and I don't agree 100% on many things, including tackling, and often butt heads over how things are working. However, he backs up his opinions with cold, hard facts, which gets him listened to and taken very seriously.

Alright, sweep it under the carpet, i expected little else.

Can i just maybe suggest you try watching a few games though, if you do you will clearly see that even the worst teams build up play in the final third looks amazing, they appear untouchable and can knock the ball about for fun in and around the penalty box with little or no pressure from the opposing defenders.

Defenders seldom if ever react and even if they do, it is usually by giving away a free kick or a penalty.

As others have said, i have purposely put my defenders on hard tackling, then with the shouts used "Hassle opponents" and "Get stuck in" and what happens? absolutely nothing thats what, i'm often lucky if they make a single tackle between them the whole game.

I suppose theres one good thing about this issue not being addressed, i wont have to fork out £20-£30 for the game.

[mightymind]

Pb mean problem sorry !

what does pb meen?

[phnompenhandy]

what does pb meen?

I'm guessing 'problem'.

[pires29]

ive also noticed that my midfielder are tackling more then my defenders which even makes the defenders look more stupid . when the attacker is passed the halfway line its a 90% chance that the play that the team does will succeed and have a shot on target or off target.

How exactly does that make defenders look stupid? Ask any manager if you get the chance, that is how a team should be defending - strikers should be the first line of defence then the midfield and and finally defenders if the other two have been passed.

Midfielders, primarily the 2 or 3 central midfielders that a team has should always be the ones making the most tackles as they are the ones that are going to be pressing the ball up hugher up the pitch. When do you ever see a teams defence go chasing after the ball? Not unless they absolutely have to as they are expected to hold their shape and pick up any runners that come through. I would be very worried for my team if my defence was making more tackles than my CM's.

How on Earth can an interception(or steal) be counted as a tackle? and just how would this make everyone happy??

A tackle is a tackle and in the FM10 Demo defenders rarely bother to make them and for those who either watch large proportions of their matches or know anything about RL football this is a clear and blatant issue that should need absolutely no discussion whatsoever.

In FM I would say there is a definite issue where attacks too easily progress through into the area between midfield and defence. I would also say that runs made by attackers are all too often not followed by midfielders.

I haven't played much of the demo, only a handful of games but I don't think it really stood out that was a problem with tackling.

[PaulC]

Just a quick point.

The challenges in the game where the defending player gets a kind of short clearance on the ball arent being logged as succesful tackles by the ME. I could change that, and my estimation is that would increase tackles by around 10 per game and completed % by around 10-20% per game.

What is the consensus on this? I could only change it for 10.2 as 10.1 is locked btw.....

I could also look at the example of a defender nicking the ball from a dribbling player as posted by Isuckatfm above, if indeed it is a different situation to what I have described

[mightymind]

Paul,

The topic is not exactly about how the tackles are counted by the engine, but the reality on the pitch. I've noticed that the player who gets the ball is rarely surrounded by 1 or 2 players just because of lack of reaction ( they seems sometimes to be blind and passive )

So the interceptions are of course less and the ball is easily going from defense to attack, without any fight in the middle. This what I felt. Maybe SI can jsut increase slightly the distance from when the player should react in function of the ball position.

I'm I clear ?

Thank Paul.

Just a quick point.

The challenges in the game where the defending player gets a kind of short clearance on the ball arent being logged as succesful tackles by the ME. I could change that, and my estimation is that would increase tackles by around 10 per game and completed % by around 10-20% per game.

What is the consensus on this? I could only change it for 10.2 as 10.1 is locked btw.....

I could also look at the example of a defender nicking the ball from a dribbling player as posted by Isuckatfm above, if indeed it is a different situation to what I have described

[Mitja]

I think tackles should be defined as such we can compare them to real life stats. imo the defensive side of ME has improved a lot since 2009.

there are other issues I have with ME which I think need looking at. I posted them in the beggining of this thread.

[PaulC]

I think its arguable that players stand off the ball player a little too much once they have engaged him, and that may well be looked at for 10.2.

[Mitja]

I know this is slightly off topic but one thing I find particulary anoying is how qiuckly defenders clear the ball, even when they could easily saved the ball in posession. they never try to play way out of trouble..

[Steboyuk]

Totally agree with the OP, as I highlighted in my topic, the defending is a total joke, once you get possesion you never look like losing it and there is just so much space its untrue. The fullbacks are totally USELESS and often run away from wingers instead of trying to stop them getting a cross in.

Its pathetic, it was the exact same in the demo of FM 09, they sorted that eventually and I think the latest FM09 patch had a very very good match engine which I enjoy using. I will not be buying Fm10 for this reason, will be waiting until either a major patch to sort the lack of closing down and the issue of so much space around, or wait until FM11

[wwfan]

Alright, sweep it under the carpet, i expected little else.

Can i just maybe suggest you try watching a few games though, if you do you will clearly see that even the worst teams build up play in the final third looks amazing, they appear untouchable and can knock the ball about for fun in and around the penalty box with little or no pressure from the opposing defenders.

Defenders seldom if ever react and even if they do, it is usually by giving away a free kick or a penalty.

As others have said, i have purposely put my defenders on hard tackling, then with the shouts used "Hassle opponents" and "Get stuck in" and what happens? absolutely nothing thats what, i'm often lucky if they make a single tackle between them the whole game.

I suppose theres one good thing about this issue not being addressed, i wont have to fork out £20-£30 for the game.

Nobody's denied you don't have a point. Successful tackles are too low. However, we are arguing that your opinion that defenders should make 4+ tackles a game is wrong and actually further removed from real life than the current situation. We are also suggesting that it might be how tackles are defined related to real life stats that might be the issue, rather than the ME itself. We've also been explicit that this has been discussed in depth already and is not something people have missed. Paul has now highlighted some possible reasons for this, and a potential development direction for players standing too far off.

We can't agree with your opinion that defenders should make 4+ tackles per game as every statistical data set available tells us this doesn't happen. However, we can try to work out why things are too low, which you can be a part of by targeting and forwarding pkms with examples.

[Mitja]

Totally agree with the OP, as I highlighted in my topic, the defending is a total joke, once you get possesion you never look like losing it and there is just so much space its untrue. The fullbacks are totally USELESS and often run away from wingers instead of trying to stop them getting a cross in.

Its pathetic, it was the exact same in the demo of FM 09, they sorted that eventually and I think the latest FM09 patch had a very very good match engine which I enjoy using. I will not be buying Fm10 for this reason, will be waiting until either a major patch to sort the lack of closing down and the issue of so much space around, or wait until FM11

not true. full backs do close down and tackle. less space wingers got, more aggresivly they behave.

to me the biggest problem with AI marking/tackling is defensive starting position, players stand too far off attackers. hard to achieve the right amount since in game players don't think for them selfes. in some situations you would want them to be closer and some to stand off.

[Steboyuk]

What do you mean 'not true' Ive seen it with my own eyes in the demo, my winger was running down the line and the oppo full back just ran the opposite way. That was an extreme case, normally the full backs just run side by side with the wingers (who use no skill or trickery to beat a man) who just run in a straight line down the wing. Its cringeworthy to watch.

[mightymind]

This is the best news for me, with the second patch, we can expect to slove than the problem of the main topic ( tackle, interceptions, and missed passes )

Really tahnks Pauld to be aware of that !!

I think its arguable that players stand off the ball player a little too much once they have engaged him, and that may well be looked at for 10.2.

[Hammer1000]

Nobody's denied you don't have a point. Successful tackles are too low. However, we are arguing that your opinion that defenders should make 4+ tackles a game is wrong and actually further removed from real life than the current situation. We are also suggesting that it might be how tackles are defined related to real life stats that might be the issue, rather than the ME itself. We've also been explicit that this has been discussed in depth already and is not something people have missed. Paul has now highlighted some possible reasons for this, and a potential development direction for players standing too far off.

We can't agree with your opinion that defenders should make 4+ tackles per game as every statistical data set available tells us this doesn't happen. However, we can try to work out why things are too low, which you can be a part of by targeting and forwarding pkms with examples.

The 4 tackles thing was not my opinion, i just misquoted you.

By the way, the top tackling DC in the EPL is Carlos Cuellar who has made 38 tackles in 9 EPL matches, others DC's are around the late twenty early thirties mark tackling wise and i have evidence that in FM it averages out at less than a single tackle per match.

Defenders in general(in FM) lack presence and are largely passive when it comes to doing their job, the poorest of opposition can easily manipulate passes in and around them with little effort, all they seem able to do is get the odd block in and thats it and more often than not they make the stupidest of errors, plus, as somebody else has mentioned they boot the ball into row Z when an easy pass is on that may allow a counter attack.

You know what, i actually quite like FM10, looking like the best release for years, but i will not purchase the game until the defending has been rectified and only then if i find it an acceptable fix, so maybe Feb?

[Sonic2006]

Just gonna start a game and will put players on closing down / hard tackling, see if that does anything.

[fmobande]

You know what, i actually quite like FM10, looking like the best release for years, but i will not purchase the game until the defending has been rectified and only then if i find it an acceptable fix, so maybe Feb?

are you serious hammer ?

[Hammer1000]

are you serious hammer ?

Yeah, are you suprised because i always seem to be mugging the game off, or that you think its especially poor?

[Sonic2006]

That is pretty poor and looking through other games I have played its pretty similar.

[Hammer1000]

That is pretty poor and looking through other games I have played its pretty similar.

Wow thats much better than most of mine, you do have to consider how much the other team actually got forward as well, if you were all over them for most of the match then its reasonable, but if they saw alot of the ball in the final third then its not so good.

I'm just saying this because if the issue is to be taken seriously we have to be sure any evidence is backed up with stats.

[Sonic2006]

[Sonic2006]

[RT--]

I'm just saying this because if the issue is to be taken seriously we have to be sure any evidence is backed up with stats.

You also need to acknowledge the posts where wwfan and Paul have explained why the definition of a tackle used by Sky/Opta is different to the one used in FM.

There may well still be an issue, but it's no good comparing the two things like-for-like.

[fmobande]

Yeah, are you suprised because i always seem to be mugging the game off, or that you think its especially poor?

erm was that a rhetorical question?

[mightymind]

Whatever how the tackles are counted in the analysis tools, we don't care, the main topic of Hammer was to say this ( the real fight and defence problem during the match in FM ! ):

Hello Paul,

Thanks for getting involved in this thread. I read your solution but I do not think the problem lies in clearances not being counted as tackles. It is not that much about what counts as a tackle or what does not, but the problem really is about the actual defending in fm2010.

Looking at full matches, I am not seeing defenders (mainly central) getting into a physical one to one contact with the attackers. An attacker gets the ball, you see a dc walk towards him and then back off again. Defending is not realistic, in real life football good defenders get into contact with the attacker, stick a foot in front of the attacker and clear the ball, tackle when the defender gets past him etc. The only good defending from central defenders I am seeing so far is when there is an attack through the air, the defender goes into a one on one heading combat and wins it.

For the rest only the ball winning midfielder, the wingers and sometimes the full backs get into over the ground defensive action in the FM2010 demo. For the rest defending is very static: keep the attacker in front of you and do nothing. It does not add up to the tactics (closing down, hard tackling, stopper), I expect to see proactive defensive work from my team instead of reactive.

In fm2009 key extended highlights often showed the promise of a good attack being ended by a good defensive interception by one of the defenders. I loved that, it gave me the feeling that buying good defenders actually mattered in the endresult. I want to see the player attributes being reflected in actual gameplay. In fm2010 SI has done a splendid job on the wingers, the SC, the central midfielders, but the full backs and defenders just do not do what they are hired to do

Do not get me wrong, I am not seeing weird scorelines, fm2010 overall is very balanced in gameplay. It is just the way defenders act without the ball in the matches that is causing gameplay in fm2010 to be very disappointing (once you really notice the problem it becomes a big annoyance, not every is seeing it or not everyone finds it a problem, however it actually and factually is an excisting issue).

Please fix the defending problem asap or release an extra patch 10.1.2 before releasing patch 10.2. We do not want the promise of a great game and only experiencing a great game months after buying it.

You also need to acknowledge the posts where wwfan and Paul have explained why the definition of a tackle used by Sky/Opta is different to the one used in FM.

There may well still be an issue, but it's no good comparing the two things like-for-like.

[PaulC]

You won't have to wait until February for 10.2 anyway, and I take the discussion on board, but I think when we factor in the tackle/clearance grey area and also try to get players in closer to the ball player things will make sense to you guys who have concerns.

[Ritari]

Something I've noticed concerning passive defending.

I noticed in my demo game that the goalkeeper would often stay on or near the six yard line even though the ball was moving inside the penalty box, no defenders were near enough and the opposition attacker was closing on the ball, but was still at a distance which would make the goalkeeper reach the ball first, if he bothered to move his ass to do so. The end result was a goal. (That last part is somewhat irrelevant as the goalkeeper should react somehow to the situation even, if the attacker had the ball already.) This happened with the goalkeeper set to sweeper mode. As a goalkeeper myself, I just couldn't believe my eyes every time that happened.

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K***s on epäoikeudenmukainen kusipää!

[The Gaffovski]

Something I've noticed concerning passive defending.

I noticed in my demo game that the goalkeeper would often stay on or near the six yard line even though the ball was moving inside the penalty box, no defenders were near enough and the opposition attacker was closing on the ball, but was still at a distance which would make the goalkeeper reach the ball first, if he bothered to move his ass to do so. The end result was a goal. (That last part is somewhat irrelevant as the goalkeeper should react somehow to the situation even, if the attacker had the ball already.) This happened with the goalkeeper set to sweeper mode. As a goalkeeper myself, I just couldn't believe my eyes every time that happened.

Maybe your keepers couldn't believe their eyes either, that's why they didn't move. "Just a mirage, I'm sure of it. Oops."

[Sonic2006]

You won't have to wait until February for 10.2 anyway, and I take the discussion on board, but I think when we factor in the tackle/clearance grey area and also try to get players in closer to the ball player things will make sense to you guys who have concerns.

Thank you :-)

[Polar Bear]

A defender (or anyone) nicking the ball from a dribbling player should definitely be counted as a tackle, I think.

[Hammer1000]

Something I've noticed concerning passive defending.

I noticed in my demo game that the goalkeeper would often stay on or near the six yard line even though the ball was moving inside the penalty box, no defenders were near enough and the opposition attacker was closing on the ball, but was still at a distance which would make the goalkeeper reach the ball first, if he bothered to move his ass to do so. The end result was a goal. (That last part is somewhat irrelevant as the goalkeeper should react somehow to the situation even, if the attacker had the ball already.) This happened with the goalkeeper set to sweeper mode. As a goalkeeper myself, I just couldn't believe my eyes every time that happened.

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K***s on epäoikeudenmukainen kusipää!

Well i've just lost yet another goal where the Keeper has the ball at his feet and stands still until the opposing forward nicks it off him and scores.

In fact i lost the game 3-1 with both other goals caused by awful defensive errors.

[Ritari]

In fact i lost the game 3-1 with both other goals caused by awful defensive errors.

You must be playing with Finland NT, then.

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K***s on epäoikeudenmukainen kusipää!

[PaulC]

No he'll be playing as West Ham with David James' heir apparent between the sticks ;-)

But these keeper eccentricities are toned down for 10.1.