My strikers missed big chance in last three matches. What I doing?

I lost three games in row without my team scored. Well. Something is wrong. But last match was very similar with first league match against Aston Villa. When Villans scored two goals from one shot on target. Another opponent scored two goals from one shot in match. So either the statistics are wrong, or the game is not so fair as you claim. From the ten league match. in two match opponent scored two goals from one shot on target.

But it's not the priority for me. My strikers missed big chance in last three matches. I talking with strikers after every match. I tried to encourage them, but do not think it helped. What I doing?

Toff, you amaze me:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/391334-My-attackers-have-very-little-efficiency.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/391804-I-don-t-know-even-what-to-say

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/391428-Southend-United-tactic

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/390064-Poor-form

On the rare occasions where you display your tactics, they are often built on a questionable logic.

You never state explicitly why you (wrongly) think the AI is more efficient (which it isn't).

A couple of sides scored from a low number of shots on target? Big deal. They probably countered your overly attacking set up, or your incorrectly balanced system with two attack Duties at the back and no cover. Where's the issue?

Toff, you amaze me:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/391334-My-attackers-have-very-little-efficiency.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/391804-I-don-t-know-even-what-to-say

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/391428-Southend-United-tactic

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/390064-Poor-form

On the rare occasions where you display your tactics, they are often built on a questionable logic.

You never state explicitly why you (wrongly) think the AI is more efficient (which it isn't).

A couple of sides scored from a low number of shots on target? Big deal. They probably countered your overly attacking set up, or your incorrectly balanced system with two attack Duties at the back and no cover. Where's the issue?

The issue for some is this;

1 - We know that by having two attacking duty players on a back four we are going to leave ourselves exposed to a counter-attack, but conversely this should allow us to have the numeric advantage going forward which will allow us to have a free player or two in the attacking third which will allow us to create more chances.

2 - Despite this "overly attacking" tactic we tend to recycle possession well and tend to dominate games. We create plenty of chances and good chances at that. From inside the 18 yard box, from inside the frame of the goal.

3 - This domination of possession tends to lead to us having a solid unit defensively in terms of limiting chances, despite the fact we have fullbacks marauding up and down the flanks.

4 - The issue them comes when your forwards just stop being able to finish for a period of time. The same chances are being created, the same players are on the ball in these situations, yet we are getting radically different results without actually doing anything differently. I myself had a striker (Apostolos Vellios) score 10 in 8 games then go 10 games without scoring. He was being put in the same scoring positions he was however, instead of burying them as he had been, missing the target from the 15 yards with only the keeper to beat.

This lead to numerous 0-0 draws and then a farcical 1-0 loss when the opposition never even had a shot.

5 - I think in the end it is a frustration issue. We are not changing anything that we are doing, yet the results are different. The in game performance is no different except for the sudden inability to hit the target. The in game body language sits consistently in the "seems composed" and "looking calm" brackets yet.....

6 - Some people want to play with an overtly attacking mindset. I know I do. I want my teams to outscore the opposition, and when my players perform like professional players I win games 4-2 games, 5-2 games. But I win games. Then, suddenly without anything noticeably changing (Nothing from the Ass Man pre match, nothing different when watching the games, nothing different in his body language, my strikers decide, hey I think this scoring goals thing is getting a bit boring, and they turn into sunday league footballers who snatch at every chance they have put on a platter for them.

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The bottom line for me is that, I don't think there is a true issue here tactically (at least not one that is known, and that I am willing to sacrifice in order to create more attacking football). When the strikers finish it works, when they don't finish it doesn't. Nothing (at least in my case) inherently wrong with the tactics. It is just the sudden and unexplained bouts of ineptitude from my strikers that kills me.

So; Question, how do you encourage a striker going through a rough patch of form? How do you talk to a guy who hasn't scored in 10+ hours of football after starting like a rocket early season?

The bottom line for me is that, I don't think there is a true issue here tactically (at least not one that is known, and that I am willing to sacrifice in order to create more attacking football). When the strikers finish it works, when they don't finish it doesn't. Nothing (at least in my case) inherently wrong with the tactics. It is just the sudden and unexplained bouts of ineptitude from my strikers that kills me.

So; Question, how do you encourage a striker going through a rough patch of form? How do you talk to a guy who hasn't scored in 10+ hours of football after starting like a rocket early season?

I might be completely wrong, but from my experience the "motivation info" (I still play FM11), now in FM14 "body language" does not give a whole picture about player's complacency, nervousness, motivation. Ie. a player can be complacent, nervous etc. without you ever noticing it unless you carefully watch matches to see how the player reacts in different situations and make notes.

Lets imagine that motivation & complacency work like attributes in the range 1-20. A player's current mental situation can be like motivation 6, complacency 14. But unless the player's complacency gets over 15 the game does not give you any indication that the player is complacent apart from the fact he is playing like s*it and missing sitters. Moreover when on 10 match run without scoring your striker begins to be nervous and you have to adapt your interaction with that particular player.

I might be completely wrong, but from my experience the "motivation info" (I still play FM11), now in FM14 "body language" does not give a whole picture about player's complacency, nervousness, motivation. Ie. a player can be complacent, nervous etc. without you ever noticing it unless you carefully watch matches to see how the player reacts in different situations and make notes.

Lets imagine that motivation & complacency work like attributes in the range 1-20. A player's current mental situation can be like motivation 6, complacency 14. But unless the player's complacency gets over 15 the game does not give you any indication that the player is complacent apart from the fact he is playing like s*it and missing sitters. Moreover when on 10 match run without scoring your striker begins to be nervous and you have to adapt your interaction with that particular player.

Wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, which then going forward would beg the questions;

1 = If complacency/nervousness is going to play such a large role in the game, do you not think we should be given a better indicator of how a particular player is reacting at any given stage?

2 = If you are going to have that ticker in the game, would it not make sense to actually make it useful rather than only give any information in extreme circumstances?

On the scoring form issue;

Yeah, after say 3 or 4 games of missing chances you being to given them the "no pressure" speech, and after 4 or 5 games of goals you start to give them the "I expect a performance" garb. The issue is that the form seems to fall off a cliff with absolutely no indication of why that has happened. Of course form is a part of the game, but this kind of takes it to extremes.

Hattrick one game, missing sitters the next. It's just frustrating not knowing WHY your players suddenly forget how to score goals.

In addition to this, but on a different tack;

Obviously missing a sitter affects confidence. However it is pretty well known around here that what the ME considers a "sitter" is not always an easy chance.

Thus, if the ME is going to punish players for missing tough chances that the ME thinks are easy chances is that not a really big flaw in the system?

UPDATE: After scoring 6 goals through the first 9 games of the season, I just put 4 past the next opposition. Nothing different. Same tactics, same chances. Strikers just put them away this time.

Well, I think this is how a man management is incorporated into FM. You can not expect your striker to score hattrick every match. Even if you create chances. I know this can be frustrating as hell, but I believe there is always an explanation why your striker constantly missing sitters as there are a lot of attributes that have influence (apart from obvious attributes like finishing and composure there are things like concentration, consistency, pressure, important matches, bad day...).

Also, a small workaround might help you. If your striker missing sitters, bench him, play somebody else (benching him will lower complacency so at least you know the problem is somewhere else). Or try to channel your attacks in different direction in order not to rely on your off-form striker too much.

the missing chances while tactics is doing good is the most interesting part of fm. it is the time when man management and squad building comes in.

you'r strikers will inevitabely go through times when they can't score due to personal issues, sheer luck (or lack of it) and so on. So it is up to the manager to make the right decision; Do I give this guy another chance? Do I put my old backup in as he is waiting for a chance, is he likely to take it? How am I going to help him get in the match and perform? Do I put a young, unproven prospect? Might he do better?

Two seasons ago i had a CM (retrained striker) who just couldn't stop scoring no matter what. he went to score 28 goals in 30 matches playing as CM and throughout the season he was confident in almost every match. First time i saw that in years playing this game. I was just waiting for him to hit the wall but it never happened. He never became complacent and he never repeated that season again

Strikers another missed chances. I do not know really what to do. Striker goes alone to the goalkeeper. But he shot very bad. After every matches I talk with worst player, strikers, but anything did not help. I change the tactcics from 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 to 4-4-2. I played on two strikers now. But no change. I hope that next season will be better.

Another match. Three clear cut chances and another amazing AI goalkeeper. I replaced strikers with another two strikers. No change. They missed all. I talk with all strikers after every match. They still missed. Training focus: Attacking. No change. I change tactics to 4-4-2. No change. I thinking that I resignated to play FM. Almost every match AI goalkeeper had amazing saves. I apologize, but does not come to me as a normal thing. I am tired, very discouraged and frustrated from last ten matches.

Striker finishing is very 'streaky', especially if you are creating a lot of your chances thru the middle of the pitch. When they're hot, they're really hot but when they go off form they can waste multiple one on one chances per game which can drive you mad.

It might help if you can tweak your tactic to provide more crosses into the penalty area and 6 yard box. I find scoring from crosses much more consistant, you can create chances that your strikers simply cannot miss (keeper misses cross at near post, your guy on the back post taps ball into undefended net).

West Brom unlucky defeat. Why not surprised me? This is another unlucky match. From last ten matches my team no scored goal in six matches. What game generates in recent matches has far to football strategy. I try what I want and still it has no effect. And when two strikers cannot scored from two metres on goal line, is not normal.

I'm going to open the champagne. Will Hughes scored goal and I draw with Everton.

I've always dismissed the idea that motivation and the management of it are as big a deal in the game as people sometimes think.

In khodder's post at #3 a number of tactical pointers are made and then references the fact that a player who scored loads, then stops.

I personally do not get this. My best strikers average a goal a game. Sometimes they might not score, but sooner or later a hat-trick or double will get the average back up.

I accept there are times when the striker places a weak shot straight at the keeper, but these are just poor ME representations. SI have said that they will look to make missed chances look to test the keeper more in FM15 and beyond - but this does not mean that chance conversion will increase, just that we'll see good shots being well saved, rather than tame shots being easily saved.

I've always dismissed the idea that motivation and the management of it are as big a deal in the game as people sometimes think.

In khodder's post at #3 a number of tactical pointers are made and then references the fact that a player who scored loads, then stops.

I personally do not get this. My best strikers average a goal a game. Sometimes they might not score, but sooner or later a hat-trick or double will get the average back up.

I accept there are times when the striker places a weak shot straight at the keeper, but these are just poor ME representations. SI have said that they will look to make missed chances look to test the keeper more in FM15 and beyond - but this does not mean that chance conversion will increase, just that we'll see good shots being well saved, rather than tame shots being easily saved.

Personally I would prefer it is the ME made it harder to create these types of chances. These gilt edge chances from 15-20 yards one on one with the keeper from the top of the box, but conversely also increased the finishing percentage.

It could however be hard to get the balance correct. It just gets laughable at times when I look at my chances again after a match and I watch guys missing the target from 15 yards.

I found creative striker. Now my team scored goals and it is better than before. Saido Berahino played very well.

In five matches was impossible beat AI goalkeeper. My striker cannot scored from really big chances. I did not understand as possible. My striker goes alone to goalkeeper. He hit the goalkeeper. Second chance. He had lot of time go to empty net. He hit the post.

Personally I would prefer it is the ME made it harder to create these types of chances. These gilt edge chances from 15-20 yards one on one with the keeper from the top of the box, but conversely also increased the finishing percentage.

Very good point and I 100% agree.

I've always dismissed the idea that motivation and the management of it are as big a deal in the game as people sometimes think.

Hm .. but motivation and good management are very important factors in real football. Real football isn't only tactic.

Three matches they played well . Now it's old routine. They missed and missed and missed. Sorry. Most result is 1:0 for opponent. Again, the game repeats the same things around. I do not know if I should laugh or scold. In some matches I feel that is it just about luck and not about tactics. As in a last matches. I lost nine matches. In seven matches my team was defeated 0:1 in very balanced matches. After matches the game wrote: "West Brom unlucky defeat" begun to annoy me this sentence!

Right, lets nail this.

Firstly, please detail your whole system. Roles, Duties, Mentality, Fluidity, Team and Player Instructions.

Until we have that, all we have is conjecture and unsubstantiated speculation. You can't be helped (if you want to be helped) unless you provide this information:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/325677-Forum-Rules-FAQ-s-and-Important-Links-PLEASE-READ-BEFORE-POSTING

Once we have that, we need to figure out what your match management is like.

From the very limited we know, it seems like you aren't reacting to the way the AI plays - which differs from match to match.

If you upload the save game to somewhere like http://www.gamefront.com/ or Google Docs then I'll download it and tell you why its happening. You'll not get a better offer than that

I agree with Khodder about the need for the ME to make it harder to create chances and the same be said for chances at the other end. Again i think it comes down to frustration at what you are seeing. Most of us now watch the match in either comprehensive or full to be able to react to the opposition which is fine. Now if you are consistently creating chances, have all the possession and the opposition hasn't had a sniff at goal you are not going to change anything really are you? You are thinking to yourself surely my player is going to put away one of these chances eventually. Except then the defensive error or the incredible pass followed by the incredible finish from a player who's not supposed to be able to hit the backside of a barn door (according to his attributes). 1 shot 1 goal seems to be a very common occurrence for me but i know that is more to do with my tactics and playing such a high line and high risk tactic.

Now you accept that this is going to happen every so often but i think what winds me up sometimes when watching matches is the frequency of it and how it is portrayed. I think my record was 8 games in a row where the opposition scored a goal from their first chance with some absolute. Now it didn't matter in the grand scheme of things because we it goes the other way and will always balance out over the course of a season. That doesn't help me at the time as i'm f'in and blinding at the screen.

What i've found though experience now is that it does balance itself out over time and if you've got a good tactic, pay attention to games and stick to your game plan then you'll get there eventually. Take yesterday evening for example...the night before i was on fire and had finally found my scoring boots, Jimenez had 7 in 4 having previously gone 10 hours without scoring (I hadn't change anything he just decided to start scoring again). I was feeling happy again and felt confident that i could overcome arch rival Chivas in the Final and take my 3rd playoff win in a row...Lost 1-0 away and drew 0-0 at home. Shooting abysmal and generally frustrated with the difference a week could make.

Anyway 5 days later and i played in the Club World Championship having won the NACL last season. On a real downer but then we smashed 3 past Al Rayyan with a second string eleven followed by a match against Copa Libertadores winners U de Chile and this happened:

My shooting was back with a bang (Ironically Caruzzo's goal for u de chile was their first shot on target. ).

A final against Real Madrid beckoned...

Shooting was still a little bit off and believe it or not i feel like we could have won by more with what i saw on the field. It was an excellent performance was just by playing my base tactic with no adjustments until maybe extra time when Davila went off injured and had no strikers left. No tweaking required.

The thing that frustrates people is that there is such a culture now that all issues can only be solved by tactical tweaking and often this leads to people changing things through panic and actually make things worse.

For something like the finishing of guilt edge chances it shouldn't be the case to change tactics. Tactics are what get the ball into that position (or what prevent it getting there), the finishing of such chances is purely mental and technical ability of an individual. You can argue that the opposition can be putting players off etc. but the chances that people get annoyed about are those where it should seemingly only come down to player ability. You know they can do it as you've seen them do it time and again previously.

I guess what i'm trying to say is that i am the worlds worst at getting frustrated with the finishing on FM2014 so i understand your pain but if you feel your tactics can work and you are happy with it then stick to your guns then eventually it'll pay off.

I would like to see the ME represent your tactical shortcomings a little better at times and more depth to player management so that you could actually feel a little control over players' mental state going into and after a game. All hopeful improvements we'll see in future FM versions.

If you upload the save game to somewhere like http://www.gamefront.com/ or Google Docs then I'll download it and tell you why its happening. You'll not get a better offer than that

This offer is outstanding Toff, and I'd urge you to take it up if you really want to see if there is any AI bias or not.

If you upload your save, the likes of Cleon, me and anyone else who wants to help, will be able to look through everything on your save.

We'll be able to see all the 1-0's you mention and watch them back to validate your observations, look at your tactics, look at your in-game management to see what changes you are making etc. etc.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/24382144/wb22.rar

I need help from you and I appreciate it. FM is still the only game which I played long time.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/24382144/wb22.rar

I need help from you and I appreciate it. FM is still the only game which I played long time.

Excellent I shall have a look tomorrow

I've just loaded it to get an idea of the context of the save and one thing stands out - you are 5th with WBA in January of season one.

Fifth place, season one, West Brom. I'd be delighted to be there after 23 games.

Yes, you have lost a few games 1-0, but they are:

Chelsea (H)

Liverpool (H)

Newcastle (A) all in a row - nasty run of fixtures

Stoke (H)

Man U (A)

Sunderland (A)

Swansea (A)

Of all of those, without looking at the stats, I don't see much wrong. On paper, I wouldn't say WBA are "better" than Stoke, Swansea or Sunderland.

Most of your tactics are Fully Fluid, or near as makes a tangible difference.

Looks like you have used all of them. 4-4-2 in 8 games (10 scored, 4 conceded), 4-2-3-1 in 16 (44 / 11) and 4-1-2-2-1 in 11 (14 / 11 (!)).

I've not got time to watch matches tonight, but have time to make some cursory observations about these tactics:

The 4-4-2

Initial thoughts are:

No movement from defence to midfield

Possibly passes in behind your WMs

Central midfield not perhaps as secure as a 4-4-2 needs

Too many specialist Roles to use Fluid Fluidity (if you subscribe to The Twelve Step Guide theory re Fluidity)

Low Tempo plus Short Passing plus your defensive set up probably invites unnecessary pressure

Hassle Opponents typically suits a higher line better, or a different shape with AMC line players

The 4-2-3-1

Initial thoughts:

Same issues at the back - 4 Defend Duties

Suicidal MC set up, though the stats suggest you concede less than one per game with this system

Complete imbalance up front. No space with IFs, AP and AF all in and around the same areas.

Very symmetrical with no variety of supply or movement

The 4-1-2-2-1

Initial thoughts:

Too symmetrical and predictable with same set up on each flank

Two CWBs and Attack Duty AML/R is too risky - I can see why this one concedes so many

Not really enough support to the striker - lone striker systems do better with a Support Duty where there is no AMC

Too many specialists for the Fluidity

Had a quick look, hope you don't mind. I'll leave tactics up to Cleon and others. I just want to talk about your strikers as players. How much do you think they should be scoring in the Premiership?

Your best is Rhodes. He's 23 and still has some development room left. If you look at his attributes, he's not bad. His first touch is 12 and that could effect how often he scores. Your ass man even suggests focusing his training on first touch. You have him on positioning, which he's poor at, but I'd take the ass man's advice on this one for a while.

Next is Berahino. He's 20 and has a lot of potential. He's not there yet. His mental stats aren't great. Composure, concentration, and decisions are all 10. His not scoring consistently is probably nothing more than the growing pains of youth. If you look at your ass man's assessment of him, it even says that he would currently be a leading player for most Sky Bet Championship sides. This guy just isn't quite ready to do what you want regularly.

Next you have loanee Vydra. Really this is the same story as with Berahino. He's currently a Championship level player. There's room for growth and I see that you have a transfer bid out on him. I'm just not sure what you expect out of him currently.

Finally, you have Anichebe. He's 25 and is also a Championship level player. Your ass man doesn't think this guy has any potential left. That might not actually be the case, but it doesn't look like you are using this guy at all as he's 60% match fit and has no senior squad appearances.

Basically, I'd expect this group of strikers to struggle at times. Cleon can probably tell you exactly why they struggle when they do and probably suggest something to make them struggle less. I just think you have unrealistic expectations for where your players are at in their development right now.

Overall, you're doing well though. You are exceeding expectations in the league in your first season. Your board is thrilled. You were just supposed to stay out of the relegation zone and you're in 5th. Be patient, let your good players develop and make good transfer decisions.

I'll have a look at some of the 1-0's. Just looking at the positioning of the shots on the Analysis Tab - not even watching most of the shots themselves.

Chelsea

Their 4-2-3-1 vs your 4-1-2-2-1.

Sensible on paper to use a DM to stifle their AMC. Less so where both of your flanks are Attack Duties only.

Total Shots / On Target

WBA 12 / 4 Chelsea 14 / 6

WBA shots are generally from range and / or an angle. 6 from edge of area, none in 6 yard box. Closest shots from Billy Jones (Finishing of 8, Composure and Decisions 12, Long Shots 7).

In contrast, Chelsea have 7 attempts from inside penalty box, 3 of which are in 6 yard box. Completely different quality of chances although to be fair, Willian's stats aren't brilliant but tangibly better than Jones'

Stoke

4-1-2-2-1 vs. 4-1-2-2-1.

Total Shots / On Target

WBA 13 / 3 Stoke 16 / 6 *I'm randomly selecting 1-0's, and it is seeming like your shot accuracy is poor already. 3 from 13 on target is very poor. Needs to be 50%+ for me to be happy*

You had 7 shots in the penalty box, again the majority from the periphery of the area rather than clear chances. I looked at the one chance in the 6 yard box, and it was just Dawson misplacing a header from a corner. Probably could have done better, but by no means simple given the fact he's glancing the ball back across goal.

Stoke have 12 shots in the penalty area, 5 or 6 of which are on the periphery of the 6 yard box. Again, there are signs that teams are creating chances from closer in, whether via set pieces or in open play. Considering Dawson's miss from the corner, I'd have to say you could have lost this one by more. Stoke had lots of chances from set pieces.

Sunderland

Deliberately picked a game you probably thought you could / should have won on paper.

Your 4-2-3-1 against a 4-1-2-2-1

Total Shots / On Target

Sunderland 7 / 3 WBA 16 / 6

Your shots are overwhelmingly missing the target from range. 6 are in the penalty area, 2 of which are on the edge. I looked at Kusk's chance as it seemed dead central and on the penalty spot. It was, but it was a lofted cross played behind him which he needed to twist to reach, He did well to get it on target. Rhodes has a great chance, but it's a terrific save. I could see you getting annoyed with that one, but it's just a good save.

Sunderland's shooting isn't great at all. A lot from range but Fletcher gets loads of space because Gardner is behind your MCs and so Olsson has to engage him. Fletcher just attacks that channel and finishes smartly.

Summary

Just a really quick and objective glance at three games has suggested to me that you are not creating good chances and that the AI is either taking advantage of gaps in your tactical set up, or they are just using better systems which enable them to get closer to goal more often than you.

In these three games, I feel that there is no sign of AI bias.

Summary 2

I use FMC now. This made me remember all about the Analysis Tab. I bloody love it

In these three games, I feel that there is no sign of AI bias.

I never thought, that it's bias. No, in these matches angers me, how played my midfielders and strikers.

Please, you can check Villa's goals in first match and first Kusk's goal in second match against Villa and Benteke's goal from this match?

Jordan Rhodes absolutely overpriced striker, which cannot score from three yards.

Those wide men in particular look quite disjointed. I'd recommend looking at pairs and combinations as those problems are the type it is meant to eradicate/reduce.

Really because I think any feedback will be interesting;

http://www35.zippyshare.com/v/21485339/file.html

Really because I think any feedback will be interesting;

http://www35.zippyshare.com/v/21485339/file.html

http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/26821737/file.html

http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/66642657/file.html

Another couple of games if anyone wants to have a look and let me know what they think.

Jordan Rhodes absolutely overpriced striker, which cannot score from three yards.

He is pricey, and there are possibly better value for money out there, but I have had him before, pretty useful player if you use him correctly.

khodder I've had a look at Wolves 0 Blackburn 2.

I'm assuming you wanted it checked because you are Wolves and struggle to see how you lost 2-0 at home to an opponent who only took two shots?

First of all, your formation falls into the hands of Blackburn. They use a 4-1-2-2-1, you use a narrow 4-1-2-2-1 where the AML/R are AMCs.

Straight away, it just means you congest the middle and concede superiority on the flanks to Blackburn. Your numerical superiority in the middle won't really amount to muchas a standard 4-1-2-2-1 remain strong in the middle.

Losing to the only two shots the AI takes is frustrating, but bear in mind that of your 16 shots, just 5 were on target and 8 (half!) were from range. Your shooting was therefore poor.

I'll look at the match now on Comprehensive highlights and annotate as I go:

At 7 minutes it looks like there is imbalance between Holt and Edwards. Edwards possibly has an Attack Duty and is impeded by Holt. It also creates gaps defensively on that side on on occasions. The shape of the MC and AMC line seems to result in separation between your defence and DM and the rest of the team. If a CM came deeper then Foley wouldn't have to hoof the ball like at 07:45. Note also that Blackburn have their MC, AML/R and ST behind your MCs.

When you subsequently attack, look and see how Blackburn retract into a well spaced defensive shape, with men behind the ball. Your shape sees no real width forced on several occasions by the likes of Holt in particular, and with Foley not overlapping it makes things very easy for Blackburn's left side.

At 11:39 Keane has no option other than to shoot from range, because Edwards is covered and the rest of your team is behind the ball. I'd be interested to see your set up, because it seems to have some odd Duties. Feels a bit like you have a lot of Support Duties and not much real penetration.

On 20 minutes, your lack of defensive width is shown when Meyler sprays the ball wide to Ward. He has time to play a one-two with Ward due to Stendera and Gabriel not tracking back early enough. They should have engaged higher up the pitch ideally.

From 21:24 is an example of how incoherent you are offensively. Gabriel and Cuevas get in each other's way, but the main issue is the lack of incisive movement ahead, which culminates in nobody breaking past Keane so he just belts it from range. You badly need more runners. Shortly after, another shot from range is taken, and it's entirely down to the lack of width and movement.

The opening goal is largely due to Batth stepping up allowing Woodrow to slip a ball through to Cairney, who would have been covered by Cuevas but he has to move inside to engage Woodrow.

At 27:55 another Wolves attack ends with an off target shot from range. Blackburn constantly have 5 in the box, because the lack of Wolves' attacking width means the full backs can sit tight and don't need to leave the area.

Great ball from Holt to Keane on 40 mins, but the lack of support means that both DCs can close him down. When the ball breaks to Stendera he already has two Blackburn men on him so, guess what? He shoots from range as he has no options.

At this point, I've just skipped to the second goal to see how Blackburn scored. It is pretty clear that your lack of width and runners allows Blackburn to defend very comfortably, and results in shots from range or under pressure. Stendera does well to offer width now and then, but the AMRC in particular stays too central too often.

The second goal is all about that lack of defensive width. Blackburn toy with poor Doherty who is trying to cover the DL and AML of Blackburn. Friend excellently lures Doherty over and releases Russell. Nascimento is therefore dragged out of position and Gestede gets in behind and scores a lovely goal.

Summary

Change formation! You need width to offer not only offensive variety to stretch the AI defence, but also to offer more defensive cover on the flanks.

Can you post your tactics please? I'd like to see in particular what the MC and AMC Roles and Duties were.

I'll try and look at another match later, but if you use the same shape in that, I suspect the same trends will occur.

khodder I've had a look at Wolves 0 Blackburn 2.

I'm assuming you wanted it checked because you are Wolves and struggle to see how you lost 2-0 at home to an opponent who only took two shots?

First of all, your formation falls into the hands of Blackburn. They use a 4-1-2-2-1, you use a narrow 4-1-2-2-1 where the AML/R are AMCs.

Straight away, it just means you congest the middle and concede superiority on the flanks to Blackburn. Your numerical superiority in the middle won't really amount to muchas a standard 4-1-2-2-1 remain strong in the middle.

Losing to the only two shots the AI takes is frustrating, but bear in mind that of your 16 shots, just 5 were on target and 8 (half!) were from range. Your shooting was therefore poor.

I'll look at the match now on Comprehensive highlights and annotate as I go:

At 7 minutes it looks like there is imbalance between Holt and Edwards. Edwards possibly has an Attack Duty and is impeded by Holt. It also creates gaps defensively on that side on on occasions. The shape of the MC and AMC line seems to result in separation between your defence and DM and the rest of the team. If a CM came deeper then Foley wouldn't have to hoof the ball like at 07:45. Note also that Blackburn have their MC, AML/R and ST behind your MCs.

When you subsequently attack, look and see how Blackburn retract into a well spaced defensive shape, with men behind the ball. Your shape sees no real width forced on several occasions by the likes of Holt in particular, and with Foley not overlapping it makes things very easy for Blackburn's left side.

At 11:39 Keane has no option other than to shoot from range, because Edwards is covered and the rest of your team is behind the ball. I'd be interested to see your set up, because it seems to have some odd Duties. Feels a bit like you have a lot of Support Duties and not much real penetration.

On 20 minutes, your lack of defensive width is shown when Meyler sprays the ball wide to Ward. He has time to play a one-two with Ward due to Stendera and Gabriel not tracking back early enough. They should have engaged higher up the pitch ideally.

From 21:24 is an example of how incoherent you are offensively. Gabriel and Cuevas get in each other's way, but the main issue is the lack of incisive movement ahead, which culminates in nobody breaking past Keane so he just belts it from range. You badly need more runners. Shortly after, another shot from range is taken, and it's entirely down to the lack of width and movement.

The opening goal is largely due to Batth stepping up allowing Woodrow to slip a ball through to Cairney, who would have been covered by Cuevas but he has to move inside to engage Woodrow.

At 27:55 another Wolves attack ends with an off target shot from range. Blackburn constantly have 5 in the box, because the lack of Wolves' attacking width means the full backs can sit tight and don't need to leave the area.

Great ball from Holt to Keane on 40 mins, but the lack of support means that both DCs can close him down. When the ball breaks to Stendera he already has two Blackburn men on him so, guess what? He shoots from range as he has no options.

At this point, I've just skipped to the second goal to see how Blackburn scored. It is pretty clear that your lack of width and runners allows Blackburn to defend very comfortably, and results in shots from range or under pressure. Stendera does well to offer width now and then, but the AMRC in particular stays too central too often.

The second goal is all about that lack of defensive width. Blackburn toy with poor Doherty who is trying to cover the DL and AML of Blackburn. Friend excellently lures Doherty over and releases Russell. Nascimento is therefore dragged out of position and Gestede gets in behind and scores a lovely goal.

Summary

Change formation! You need width to offer not only offensive variety to stretch the AI defence, but also to offer more defensive cover on the flanks.

Can you post your tactics please? I'd like to see in particular what the MC and AMC Roles and Duties were.

I'll try and look at another match later, but if you use the same shape in that, I suspect the same trends will occur.

I've been playing around with my narrow midfield box after I noticed the same thing you had; My right sided midfielder and right sided attacking midfielder seem to be occupying the same space;

Currently this setup is as follows;

FB - Support

CD - Defend

CD - Defend

FB - Support

I tried having an attacking fullback, but he pushed too far forward and left acres of space in behind on that side of the field.

DM - Defend

CML - Support

CMR - Attack

TREQL - Attack

AMCR - Support

It is clear here that the two right sided players are occupying the same space; When I initially set this up it had the Left Fullback on attacking to provide width on that side and I had hoped that my right sided central midfielder would drift towards the touchline and provide width on that side. Unfortunately this did not prove to be the case. I am tinkering around with this area as I type.

AF - Attack

With the two attacking midfielders in behind him he shouldn't get too isolated, but with my attacking duty midfielder being a Treq, he is not achieving the amount of vertical movement that I need.

I play on Control - Very Fluid (One specialist role) - And have play out of defense, hassle opponents, tighter marking and be more disciplined as TI's.

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Yes I choose those games because they frustrating, but also because I thought they would be the games that I could learn the most from.

Edit; The Cardiff game uses a slightly different, but again decidedly narrow formation. (I can't get away from my love of the narrow formation, it also suits the players at my disposal right now.)

Hassle could well explain why the first goal happened. Batth made a weird decision to step up, but Hassle almost certainly prompted it.

Also good to see that I got Edwards right as a CM (A).

Why are you using this shape? Just a lack of ML/R or AML/R players?

Much to do with the players available to me. Not a lot of quality wide men that I can afford right now. I also love to play narrow football, that that is a big part of it;

My two best players (Holt and Stendera) both operate at their best in the AMC spot. which means I'm going to look at a single striker two AMC formation from the outset. This is just how I formed behind it. I've experimented with a 4-1-4-1 and a 4-4-1-1 as well as other strange looks involving a MR and ML, but not successfully.

I've also found that without hassle my team struggles to get the ball back and we find ourselves being pushed backwards, which invariably leads to bad things.

Narrow football still needs width. Your Full Backs provide none, and in a narrow system it is essential that they offer the outlet.

Narrow football still needs width. Your Full Backs provide none, and in a narrow system it is essential that they offer the outlet.

No doubt. I had tried to create some artificial width with a central midfielder drifting wider with possession, but it did not prove overly successful. I then hoped that playing on a relatively attacking mentality, such as control would encourage my fullbacks to push further forward; again, this did not prove successful.

Always tinkering, always learning.

Now I play for Stuttgart and I have different tactic, but same problem. Another match where, the game presented her strength. Opponent three shots in game and two goals. Another lesson of the game from efficiency. Already me really tired. My players in three matches hit 7 times post or crossbar. What sometimes the game generates, it exceeds the limits.

Striker finishing is very 'streaky', especially if you are creating a lot of your chances thru the middle of the pitch. When they're hot, they're really hot but when they go off form they can waste multiple one on one chances per game which can drive you mad.

- Mr U Rosler

I've always dismissed the idea that motivation and the management of it are as big a deal in the game as people sometimes think.

... My best strikers average a goal a game. Sometimes they might not score, but sooner or later a hat-trick or double will get the average back up.

- RTHerringbone

It's very interesting that two very experienced players have such radically different experiences, and sadly I have to conclude that my experience is remarkably similar to what is described in this thread. Especially point 4 in khodders reply struck home with me, as that is basically what I experience every single season, and have done for the last 2-3 years playing FM.

4 - The issue them comes when your forwards just stop being able to finish for a period of time. The same chances are being created, the same players are on the ball in these situations, yet we are getting radically different results without actually doing anything differently. I myself had a striker (Apostolos Vellios) score 10 in 8 games then go 10 games without scoring. He was being put in the same scoring positions he was however, instead of burying them as he had been, missing the target from the 15 yards with only the keeper to beat.

The same amount and quality of chances are being produced, but suddenly my striker is completely incapable of hitting the net for 10 games straight! Thus, I fail to see how it can be about tactics, unless the in-game representation of the underlying tactical issue is completely non-sensical. Now, I'm not saying that those who say they do not experience this are lying, but maybe for some reason what they are doing is helping them to avoid this, and that the rest of us fall into some hidden trap again and again. If so, it would be of immense value for me, and many others I think, if we could nail down the root of the issue.

I have long thought that it has to do with the Pressure attribute which for some reason is reasonably hard to come by in the league I manage (pretty much all players in my original squad have Fairly Professional/Media-Friendly personalities and almost all players that shows up in the player search have similar traits). I plan on trying to get hold of a good striker with really strong pressure rating this time around, and see if he avoids these rough patches to a greater degree.

I really don't have any other ideas as to why I'm having this trouble, but it's something that costs me valuable points every single season and makes the title race unnecessarily tight every year.

I think this thread is a very relevant one for people to read, sit back and absorb:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/395948-This-just-happened-way-to-much-in-FM-2014...

I think this thread is a very relevant one for people to read, sit back and absorb:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/395948-This-just-happened-way-to-much-in-FM-2014...

Hmm... honestly I didn't find too much there that help explain the problem I talked about above. I know you guys quietly are thinking "IT'S YOUR TACTICS", but if that really is the case, the ME does a VERY poor job of showing that.

You'd need to show us what tactic you use and how you adapt it in matches which follow the pattern you describe.

There is nothing in game which illogically just throws some variables into the mix which will stop your best striker from scoring.

I'm sure things like how a player reacts to pressure and big matches have some degree of influence, but I'm yet to see any conclusive evidence that it materially affects what we see in matches (though, by the same token, I've not seen anything which conclusively proves the opposite either).

From the linked thread, wwfan's comment at #37 is the key one, as it does detail what is happening.

For the .pkms I watched in this thread, the issues are nothing to do with a nebulous factor like form, morale or pressure, but they are pure and simple tactical deficiencies.

Hmm... honestly I didn't find too much there that help explain the problem I talked about above. I know you guys quietly are thinking "IT'S YOUR TACTICS", but if that really is the case, the ME does a VERY poor job of showing that.

People dont watch games. Thats the problem. Do people need a huge windows saying ”Change your tactics cause they arent working anymore!!!”. A lot of people are used to plug and play tactics. (my self included )

People like to win but they dont know WHY they won. So when they eventually lose they dont have the necesary attitude and skills to understand why they lost and how to improve from that point onwards.

As the game has grown in popularity a lot of people play it now, and these people come to the forums and make these kind of topics.

The biggest problem is that people dont think tactically and footbally (sounds funny). And generally dont understand that a winning recipe wont last forever and dont know when and how to adapt.

People dont watch games. Thats the problem. Do people need a huge windows saying ”Change your tactics cause they arent working anymore!!!”. A lot of people are used to plug and play tactics. (my self included )

People like to win but they dont know WHY they won. So when they eventually lose they dont have the necesary attitude and skills to understand why they lost and how to improve from that point onwards.

As the game has grown in popularity a lot of people play it now, and these people come to the forums and make these kind of topics.

The biggest problem is that people dont think tactically and footbally (sounds funny). And generally dont understand that a winning recipe wont last forever and dont know when and how to adapt.

Not really what I was talking about, though, is it?

I was talking about slumps where my striker misses lots and lots of good chances that he would normally put away. Thus, from that we conclude that I do watch games and I do like to talk about tactics (which is why I have several hundred posts here in the tactics forum).

Anyways, I stumbled over one solution to the issue at hand in my current save. Instead of relying on strikers with up and down form, I rotated a lot, sold/bought lots of players, and used a tactic that saw a lot of movement in the front four (see my thread on a narrow 4-5-1 for details). We won the league and went far in Europe eventhough my top scorer was a midfielder that scored 9 goals all season! Most players in the squad had over 5 goals to their name. Strength in numbers!

Not really what I was talking about, though, is it?

I was talking about slumps where my striker misses lots and lots of good chances that he would normally put away. Thus, from that we conclude that I do watch games and I do like to talk about tactics (which is why I have several hundred posts here in the tactics forum).

Anyways, I stumbled over one solution to the issue at hand in my current save. Instead of relying on strikers with up and down form, I rotated a lot, sold/bought lots of players, and used a tactic that saw a lot of movement in the front four (see my thread on a narrow 4-5-1 for details). We won the league and went far in Europe eventhough my top scorer was a midfielder that scored 9 goals all season! Most players in the squad had over 5 goals to their name. Strength in numbers!

Thats good to hear. My bad, went on a bit of rant in that post.

With the prevelance of 4-2-3-1 these days , its easy to focus on making the striker get most of the goals, so you are dependant on the strikers form. And usually people will get a big name striker as their main guy and then a youngster as their back up, with huge difference in ability and when asked to fill in the shoes of the main striker will have difficulties cause the expectations are big.

So its better to have strikers of similar quality, look at what City are doing.

And the big bonus of getting goals from your other players will ensure your team is never starved of goals because of 1 players form.

Thats the way im trying to play myself. Good luck.

Are you saying that the game is about tactics. Many times it's true, but in some matches the game is only about random. In last matches. It was unbelievable how many stupid things my players made. Superb morale, and they played in defend as pupils. I will not write everything, but there were a lot of strange things. The player suddenly rotated around with the ball, he lost ball and others. No comment. Last game wasn't about tactics, but only what the game generates in the match. I think, that if I will repeat the match with the same players and same tactic, the result will be quite different.

Superb morale does not mean they will play well - they may be complacent and over-confident, which means they can make silly decisions. The loss of confidence from a defeat like that can be huge. The game is mainly about tactics, but man management and morale are important aspects. They all relate to each other though.

Superb morale does not mean they will play well - they may be complacent and over-confident, which means they can make silly decisions. The loss of confidence from a defeat like that can be huge. The game is mainly about tactics, but man management and morale are important aspects. They all relate to each other though.

Its true, but in sometimes they made ​​too many very strange decisions. For example: Defender is alone and he had clear ball, but he does not do anything with the ball. He suddenly began to spin around with the ball and he lost the ball. Similar strange situation I had in mind.

As the author of the thread that RTHerringbone linked (wich im still ashamed for) i can agree that the advice given was more then usefull.

I still start my games rather attacking but now I use the signals the game gives me (misses from close or easy misses) as a hint to change the pressure of attack patterns of my team. Thus opening options that my previous approach did not gave me.

This way I was able to turn arround a lot more games my way. It also cuts back the 'stupid misses'.

in that aspect i can agree with people.saying: "its your tactics". But some small things as changing the tempo or removing push higher up can do wonders sometimes..

For us, lesser tactical masterminds, it will always be a case of trial and error..

Im not saying i dont need help now i've kinda figured that issue out.. but i now will now beter where to look if something does not go my way.