Sport Science in FM. Could it work?

Could sports science be integrated into FM?

It's probably one of the most expanding sections in football clubs at this time with most top clubs having a sports scientist working on nutrition, S&F conditioning, injury prevention and rehabilitation, recovery after matches/training etc. An example of this type of thing would be at AC Milan, where they have the MilanLab which works with all players at the club, in which players regularly play on into their later ages at the highest level (think Maldini and Inzaghi.) (http://www.acmilan.com/en/club/milan_lab)

Manchester City have one of the biggest departments in the Premiership and believe one of the reasons for winning the league last season was due to keeping the players injury-free and at optimum fitness. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18887653)

Even teams such as Luton Town have their own department although they do not have the same resources as City or Milan who use hi-tech equipment like GPS monitors during training to monitor effort and therefore have lower impact on fitness. (http://www.totalfootballmag.com/non-league/in-the-spotlight-luton-towns-fitness-drive/)

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I think more detail is needed on FM in this area as currently everything injury/fitness related is dealt with by simply having a physio or fitness coach and if you have players with a high injury prone level it leaves you with little option other than to sell them. A few ideas could include:

- A number to indicate level of facilities similar to the current 'top training facilities'

- Being able to task physios to perform squad tasks e.g perform this test on this player to improve resistance to injury

Nice idea, would add some sort of depth to the physios and fitness coaching side. Would like it to serve some functionality in terms of injury prevention or helping battle against jadedness, rather than it being purely cosmetic.

I like this idea as physios don't do much in-game atm. Adding specialisation roles and tasks could make them as vital as IRL.

I remember seeing a experiment that found there wasn't much need for more than 2 physios and the only attribute they needed was physiotherapy. Determination would help, but only to make sure his attributes didn't drop. I'm not sure if it has changed with FM12 but I would expect more of the current attributes to have some affect.

Introduction of Specialised roles:

Physio Specialisation (Rehabilitation) = Physiotherapy 15+ and Motivating 15+

Physio Specialisation (Injury Prevention) = Physiotherapy 15+ and Man Management 15+

Physio Specialisation (Nutrition) = Physiotherapy 15+ and Level of Discipline 15+

Physio Specialisation (Conditioning) = Physiotherapy 15+ and Mental? 15+

Normal Physio:

Works the same way as now. A player gets an injury with fixed amount of days (eg. strained hamstring 20days) + the variable amount of days depending on injury (eg. strained hamstring 0-10). A physio can only affect the variable stat, therefore without a physio your player could be out for up to 30 days, whereas with a physio this could be reduced no less than 20 days. So even without a physio your player could only be injured for 20days but a physio increase the rate of a lower variable stat for each injury. All physios will have this role regardless of specialisation.

PS Rehabilitation:

As he normally reduces the variable stat, a physio specialised in rehabilitation reduces the overall damage on the players physical attributes. So for instance when a player breaks a leg, the physio will minimise the drop on the physical attributes. No matter how many PS Rehab physios you have the player will still lose attributes from an injury, it's just the amount of impact will be reduced.

PS Injury Prevention:

A physio specialised in this role will reduce the amount of injuries at the club. A small reduction to players 'Injury Proneness' and/or the rate of training injuries will occur. This will hardly stop injuries happening, but simply help prevent players getting persistent injuries.

PS Nutrition:

A physio specialised in nutrition helps with the overall health of the players. Therefore, a small boost to players 'Natural Fitness' could reflect this. The SP could be asked to focus more on certain players with a low 'Natural Fitness' to help them develop into better athletes. This will in turn prolong their career as players with high NF maintain their physical attributes longer.

PS Conditioning:

Conditioning will help in pre-season for players to get back to their normal level of conditioning (out of 100%). They will also aid in the recovery between matches allowing for players to play more games. A small boost to match fitness could see more players recovering back to 100% before the next game. This could allow for a smaller squad to compete in multiple tournaments.

Just a few ideas regarding physio specialised roles. Maybe in the future they could give more indepth analysis of player injuries, conditioning and injury record.

Some of the roles could incorporate a need for a decent 'Fitness coaching' attribute, or maybe the fitness coaching side could be further developed.

I would get so bored of this very easily i imagine.

Realism = 10

Fun = 0

No thanks.

I would get so bored of this very easily i imagine.

Yeah maybe so but currently all you need to do is sign two of the best Physios available and thats that. Would be an interesting addition but would probably need a way to make it less important as some people may not want the extra features

Oh dear no... not more contract renewals. Leave bad enough alone.

Just FYI, physios don't tend to get involved with nutrition, and conditioning tends to be looked after by sports scientists/exercise physiologists, so maybe having two more categories of job might be of assistance here (eg club dietician/EP). Even then, their may be far fewer of these two categories, as I'd imagine most semi-pro or amateur clubs wouldn't have them.

However, as the general feeling towards the OP suggests, having more staff to hire mightn't go down well with most. Which is surprising, given FM tends to attract a fair proportion of micromanagement freaks...

What will this add to the game? Absolutely nothing.

You have fitness coaches, you have physios. Leave it alone. It's fine the way it is.

I suspect a fitness coach would be up to speed on nutrition, at least the fitness coaches at my gym are.

If anything just rename the "Fitness Coach" to "Sport Scientist"...

There are things more important to be taken care of but i think a little more depth in fitness and physio staff wouldn't hurt and could be interesting.

I personally think this one could potentially have some legs on it. I'd agree the 'fun' aspect may not be fantastic but in theory perhaps medicals could be more likely to fail because of a pre-existing unknown injury (I believe this has happened with Milan a few times - didn't someone fail a medical because of issues with their teeth?) and then also the players could potentially lose attributes slower so can play to a more advanced age than if they were at a different club - that would add something to the game. That's just my opinion though, it's definitely something which could be developed but in terms of priority it wouldn't be that high.

Not to mention Demba Ba failing a medical at Stoke, then signing for Newcastle and scoring for fun...

I like the general idea of different medical staff having different strengths, especially in the lower where the budget may not allow enough staff to cover everything so you'd have to prioritise etc.

I personally think this one could potentially have some legs on it. I'd agree the 'fun' aspect may not be fantastic but in theory perhaps medicals could be more likely to fail because of a pre-existing unknown injury (I believe this has happened with Milan a few times - didn't someone fail a medical because of issues with their teeth?) and then also the players could potentially lose attributes slower so can play to a more advanced age than if they were at a different club - that would add something to the game. That's just my opinion though, it's definitely something which could be developed but in terms of priority it wouldn't be that high.

That was Aly Cissokho

What will this add to the game? Absolutely nothing.

You have fitness coaches, you have physios. Leave it alone. It's fine the way it is.

I suspect a fitness coach would be up to speed on nutrition, at least the fitness coaches at my gym are.

If anything just rename the "Fitness Coach" to "Sport Scientist"...

My suggestion isn't new staff. So it wouldn't affect you in anyway than what it is now. It simply adds more too the staff, giving them more of a role. Kind of like how the goalkeeping coaches are currently specialised in one of two areas (although I don't feel this is implemented properly or make any difference).

So if you had 5 physios at the club, 3 might be specialised depending on their attributes and give small bonuses. No difference in contratcs or roles, at the end of the day they are still 'Physios'. They are just better at their job than other physios (higher CA).

Atm there is no difference between an unproven Physio with 20 at physiotherapy and a world class Physio with 20 physiotherapy, motivating, level of discipline, etc.

Hardly a vital feature, but something maybe for the future to add more depth to the forgotten background staff.

Don't see the point or the advantages of this at all.

What's wrong with how it works at the moment? If you can punch a hole in what's wrong with the current model, then you might have a point.

Don't see the point or the advantages of this at all.

What's wrong with how it works at the moment? If you can punch a hole in what's wrong with the current model, then you might have a point.

A few problems currently include:

- players not recovering after long term injuries (i.e broken legs, torn ligaments etc,) as their physical stats never return

- if you have an injury prone player such as Robben then they pick up constant injuries with no current way to prevent them. If you look at real-life this is unrealistic as injury-prone players would work with the physios to prevent future injury i.e Craig Bellamy working with that Raymond Veihiegen guy.

- Constant training ground injuries such as 'injured back while doing weights' which is unrealistic as a fitness coach/physio would be present and wouldn't let them use incorrect technique or too heavy a weight.

A couple of you have said that it's not very fun etc but there is many avenues that it could affect, for example:

- reduction in amount/severity/length of injuries

- the production of youth players with good physicals/injury-proneness stats

- less training ground incidents

- passing/failing medicals,

- prolonging players careers

- increase in condition before games

- less loss of physical stats after injury

- lowering of injury prone stat

- and many more....

I don't see how these things would do anything than make the current situation better. Maybe it's wouldn't be the most 'fun' addition to FM but you have to remember that it is a major part of modern football and as FM is 'the most realistic football simulation game' then it should be included in some capacity.

Specialised physios sounds great to me, give all physios a star rating for each area as with training. It's certainly too easy to just hire a good physio and forget about it at the moment.

But if people like it that way, make it an option for the assistant manager to manage backroom staff contracts (excluding his own) and assigning training/physio categories.

I posted about this a few weeks ago (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/301789-Sports-scientists-nutritionists-etc-in-future-FM-s?highlight=sports+scientist) and I reckon this could be a great area to expand and specialise the backroom side of the game, although as with real life it shouldn't be mandatory. Some managers approaches are more radical, scientific or hands on than others of course.

What do people think of adding in other specialised roles along side sports scientists such as nutritionists, sports psychologists and maybe even alternative therapists*?

*Giggs and Rio Ferdinand both do yoga now to extend their fitness into their later careers so alternative therapists might not be too left-field, unless we're talking Glen Hoddle '98 style!

I like the idea

Would be fun and useful to me

I think the idea has legs but would only really be significant at the higher levels.

Of coure, but FM could perhaps benefit from bringing in some elements that are unique to certain levels of football. Rising up the levels to discover new challenges and dimensions to the manager role would only add more excitement.

For instance, in the lower leagues, players should be far more fussy about geography when it comes to moving to part-time semi-pro and amateur teams, or even full-time pro teams if the wage is no good. Those sorts of things are for another time in a different topic.

Well if we're talking sports scientists they why not sports therapists to help with injuries? then specialised nutritionists? Then chefs to help provide the meals, then waiters and cleaners maybe.

Sarcasm aside, i do actually think its a decent idea but i don't know what it would actually add to the game.

Jops14, have you ever heard about Creatine Kinase (CK) exams?

Sounds great.

I would be for this it is something that bugs me that injury times are usually the same and that my players deteriorate at the age of 30 when you see the likes of the italians Giggs Scholes

Im an Arsenal fan and for the last 2 seasons we have had a player out for the season with an Ankle Injury however we have one of the physio teams and a great medical facility so It would be cool if there was a way to reflect this in game without lowering the physio stat as we usually heal injuries quickly.

also medicals would be amazing I know they already exist but they are not really important so I say bring it on

The only thing i will say is that if it is going to be boring complex time consuming and fiddely then just don't do it