My best ever youth regen... what would you do?

So, I'm Hereford and we're in League 1.. what can I say? My team bottle it worse than Arsenal and Leeds put together...

but anyway, start of season 4 and I get my youth intake message and, as per usual, I have my assistant drooling over one of them who "has the potential to become one of the most gifted players to come through the youth ranks at Hereford in recent years" - same old same old think I (bear in mind that last seasons youth intake "exciting prospect" was a striker who started as 2.5 star potential and by the end of the season was up to 3.5 star potential) and so I go through the motions of clicking on each new name, sorting his training schedule and reading my coach reports to see if there are any future first-teamers amongst them (there wasn't).

Except for this guy...

Now I know this guy is gonna rip League One defences apart if I play him but... should I play him? He's only just 16... (14th May) would playing him at such a tender age hinder his development?

See, I've had good regens (mostly bought) but never have I had one come through that was instantly a first-teamer (like this guy could be) and with the regens in the past I've nurtured them gently, before introducing them to the first-team gradually but this kid is actually my best striker according to my coaches... (can't add a screenie, 4 images already - how dumb is a 4 images limit?)

Can I afford to NOT play him? Heck, I don't know if I dare even tutor him at all... What PPM's should I get him to learn (he comes with none, and a reasonable left foot to supplement his strong right)? In the past even PPM's would be relatively easy as I'd select tutors that played in the role I'd play him in, etc. I am also a little concerned that I get a player who is "tired from his last match" - who the heck has he been moonlighting for?

So basically, having never been in this position before, I'm actually at a loss as to what to do... do I play him? Tutor him? Let him have a season in the U18's/Reserves? Or... what? What would you do in my position?

That's an amazing regen for that sort of level congratulations.

I wouldn't tutor him unless you have a really good tutor for him, he already is professional with a high determination and his media handling indicates he can handle pressure well, so unless you got a complete role model on your squad i wouldn't tutor him at all.

I'd say definetly teach him to place shots and with that sort of dribbling and acceleration maybe even round keeper, his technique is good for that level as well.

Don't start him right away, i would keep him as the main sub for your team at least for a while, start bringing him on for the last 20-30 minutes of matches just for him to know the team better, then give him a starting place on easy home matches and eventually the starting spot..

Congratulations again, you just got the jackpot(on Football Manager)

I would definently play him. On fm 10 i was managing in the Ukrainian first league and i had an 18yo DC who was outstanding. After a good season i ended up selling him for 5 times his value and i was trying to find a replacement but then with a new batch of regens i got a 16yo DC who was even better so i started playing him and he played about all my league games for the season and didn't dissapoint.

I've often played players consistently from a young age if they're good enough and i've only ever had one player burn out and he was just a freak case because he was 20 and i'd just signed him and he should have been able to handle the number of games i gave him.

Maybe don't play him every game but if you can save him for your important games and maybe give him at least one game every 2 weeks he could become amazing.

That's an amazing regen for that sort of level congratulations.

I wouldn't tutor him unless you have a really good tutor for him, he already is professional with a high determination and his media handling indicates he can handle pressure well, so unless you got a complete role model on your squad i wouldn't tutor him at all.

I'd say definetly teach him to place shots and with that sort of dribbling and acceleration maybe even round keeper, his technique is good for that level as well.

Don't start him right away, i would keep him as the main sub for your team at least for a while, start bringing him on for the last 20-30 minutes of matches just for him to know the team better, then give him a starting place on easy home matches and eventually the starting spot..

Congratulations again, you just got the jackpot(on Football Manager)

Thanks, I knew as soon as I clicked on his profile I had a future star, I just hope that I can get him to fulfil his potential and that I get the chance to... (bigger clubs are bound to come sniffing sooner rather than later...)

PPM's I was thinking more along the lines of "likes to try to beat the offside trap" (anticipation 12 at 16yo... he could be good at springing the offside trap) "runs with ball often" (as mentioned, dribbling and acceleration are both good and likely to get better) and "moves into channels" as his off the ball is already at 12 too... I don't understand why the 'places shots' PPM though, is high finishing and places shots a good combo? (Mind you, I don't understand why people teach players the "shoots with power" PPM either, players learn it and promptly blast it over the bar from 6 yards out, before they learn the PPM they score.. :confused: ) I'm also thinking that his individual focus should be on technique (I just know my coaches are gonna suggest "strength" as an individual focus)

If I'm honest I think I've already decided against tutoring him as the best striker I have that *could* tutor him is Guillem Bauza who is a Resolute individual but he has the PPM "comes deep to get the ball" which I don't think will improve Soar if he were to pick it up. However, if he were to gain anything it could be decisions or positioning.. what do you think?

I know that the other 'strikers' I have are not suitable tutors for this guy, especially my captain as he has the PPM "argues with officials" which he has successfully passed on to my "prospect" from last season... lol!

I would definently play him. On fm 10 i was managing in the Ukrainian first league and i had an 18yo DC who was outstanding. After a good season i ended up selling him for 5 times his value and i was trying to find a replacement but then with a new batch of regens i got a 16yo DC who was even better so i started playing him and he played about all my league games for the season and didn't dissapoint.

I've often played players consistently from a young age if they're good enough and i've only ever had one player burn out and he was just a freak case because he was 20 and i'd just signed him and he should have been able to handle the number of games i gave him.

Maybe don't play him every game but if you can save him for your important games and maybe give him at least one game every 2 weeks he could become amazing.

In the past I've bought regens just a couple of weeks after they have been drafted into the youth teams of other clubs and plonked them into my youth team for 2 seasons with the odd sub appearance, game against lower opposition, etc and had reasonable success in developing them... They were never ready for the first team though, this guy most definitely is but I would be breaking from my "usual" development schedule to play him often. This is why I've asked though, as I really don't know what would be the best to do for/with him.

The earlier you play him, the more chance he has of reaching his potential, and the earlier he'll reach it.

You'll need to sub him a lot though as his condition will struggle for the first few seasons.

Yeah, first team football is going to be good for his development, but playing him week in week out will wear him down too quick. I'd reserve him for the role of supersub for a season or two. Keep him out of the massive games, but give him a bit more playing time against weaker opposition (in the cups).

Good luck

Well from my experience from tutoring only determination is affected besides the hidden attributes as professionalism,ambition,etc.

Bauzá is Resolute which means his determination is a little lower than professional and his determination is also one point lower, so by using that tutor you would only make those stats drop, again i've never seen decisions or any other stat besides determination improved by tutoring.. could be wrong though.

Regarding the PPM's, i normally teach the place shots to strikers with good composure,finishing and decent technique but i guess it's a personal preference, they are normally deadly with that PPM and it shows on the commentary in-game "passed into the back of the net" or "typical placed finish", with that sort of pace and anticipation at that age trying to beat the offside trap also makes sense.

Anyway keep us posted with his development and make sure you tuck him in bed every night!

What's your youth recruitment network standing at the moment just for curiosity?

My best ever youth regen

I played him from Day 1. You should definitely play that newgen as much as you can. The attributes will develop as you keep playing. Javier had a big jump in attributes from season 1 to season 2 so that will take care of itself as you do better.

It appears that the general consensus is to play him regularly from the start of the season... I'll play him in the friendlies and see how he does... if he is (as I suspect) a goal machine then I may just play him from the get-go.

Anybody else got any suggestions as to PPM's?

Well from my experience from tutoring only determination is affected besides the hidden attributes as professionalism,ambition,etc.

Bauzá is Resolute which means his determination is a little lower than professional and his determination is also one point lower, so by using that tutor you would only make those stats drop, again i've never seen decisions or any other stat besides determination improved by tutoring.. could be wrong though.

Regarding the PPM's, i normally teach the place shots to strikers with good composure,finishing and decent technique but i guess it's a personal preference, they are normally deadly with that PPM and it shows on the commentary in-game "passed into the back of the net" or "typical placed finish", with that sort of pace and anticipation at that age trying to beat the offside trap also makes sense.

Anyway keep us posted with his development and make sure you tuck him in bed every night!

What's your youth recruitment network standing at the moment just for curiosity?

Youth Facilities = Basic youth facilities + Youth Academy

Youth Recruitment = Limited youth recruitment

FWIW I have only just acquired a feeder club (without asking...) and that's Burnley who've just won the Championship..

The kid is 'born' in Hereford though so he's a local lad, shame he hasn't got Hereford as his favoured club though (but he will have eventually )

I'm a big fan of "play one twos" and "shoot with power".

If his finishing is high enough, shoots with power is absolutely lethal.

I've been thinking about this... and if he's "dubbed the new Michael Owen" then perhaps he should have the same PPM's as Owen?

On my game those are...

Moves into channels

Places shots

Plays short simple passes

Likes to try to beat the offside trap

So they're the ones I'm definitely going to ask him to learn... hey I can ask, but this is FM and anything can happen when I do

I do still think that "runs with ball often" should also be included there, but first things first eh and we'll see how he progresses

Its not worth doing anything based on players they're linked to.

I'd say use him in the first team, but not too often. Depending on pre-season form either give him a starting role or put him on the bench, but make sure not to overdo it.

That said, my right back came through the academy at 15, and he played a few games for me in the first two seasons. After that he was first choice in a rotation, and then became first choice full stop. He's 21 now, has player 260+ games for club and country combined, and had an average rating of 7.51 last year. So make sure to introduce him gently, but also give him enough game time to help him develop.

I played this guy in league two right to the EPL and he was 16 and a few days old when he debuted. His starting stats were slightly worse than your players. Worth mentioning he has played around 40 games a season every season from 16-22.

When I got my kid at 15 he literally played every single match where he didn't have RST next to his name. Did him no harm at all and was World Class by 19.

15: http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/252265_10150622330945268_607000267_18445124_1215592_n.jpg

16: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/216465_10150557849060268_607000267_17848379_4950483_n.jpg

18: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/215702_10150561474200268_607000267_17877727_5654237_n.jpg

22: http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/217146_10150566009525268_607000267_17939247_2355364_n.jpg

24: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/223257_10150572186785268_607000267_18008043_901875_n.jpg

27: http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/230124_10150579662220268_607000267_18104281_5832840_n.jpg

32: http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/222940_10150605255860268_607000267_18281872_5278828_n.jpg

34: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/227521_10150610652505268_607000267_18335543_876023_n.jpg

38: http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/251556_10150622240355268_607000267_18443942_7693709_n.jpg

Like Ackter and AcidBurn, if they're good enough, I say they're old enough. I've had a LB who first first team at 15 and my current striker was first choice from when he entered the game at 16.

If you want him to develop properly he needs to play well (above 7.00), and that is why using him mainly as a sub could be detrimental. It is better to let him start against weaker sides and in cup fixtures then sub him when he becomes tired, and always tell him No Pressure (or other low-pressure team talks) until his status and reputation has reached first team level or he is like 20-21 years old - it seems to me that at young age, difficulties handling pressure and expectations are present even though his hidden attributes shouldn't indicate that.

^I agree. As long as he keeps getting an high average than that means he is playing well which should support his development, while getting low ratings will hamper it.

Playing a young player depends on certain aspects: What is his physical ability, what level are you playing at and what position is he playing? If he's got good physique then he is better able to handle playing against much older players, so it's alright to field him. But is he is rather weak then I would wait. If you're still playing in low divisions than it's easier to let him play along, because he would get better ratings and not too much resistance (technically and physically). Therefor it might be a good idea to loan out younger players to lower divisions first. And finally do I think that attacking players have it easier than defending players or controlling players. So young attackers whould fare better then a young DC.

I've been thinking about this... and if he's "dubbed the new Michael Owen" then perhaps he should have the same PPM's as Owen?

On my game those are...

Moves into channels

Places shots

Plays short simple passes

Likes to try to beat the offside trap

So they're the ones I'm definitely going to ask him to learn... hey I can ask, but this is FM and anything can happen when I do

I do still think that "runs with ball often" should also be included there, but first things first eh and we'll see how he progresses

Its not worth doing anything based on players they're linked to.

But those ppm's actually match up to his attributes, don't you think? Obviously we're talking in relative terms of his age but they work for his abilities...

Moves into channels - high off the ball

Places shots - high composure and finishing, average technique

Plays short simple passes - low creativity (can't see the pass), low flair (unlikely to "do the unexpected") below average passing

Likes to try to beat the offside trap - high anticipation, acceleration and first touch

my "runs with ball often" ppm suggestion also works with his attributes but we'll see how he does with the same ppm's as Owen first

^I agree. As long as he keeps getting an high average than that means he is playing well which should support his development, while getting low ratings will hamper it.

Playing a young player depends on certain aspects: What is his physical ability, what level are you playing at and what position is he playing? If he's got good physique then he is better able to handle playing against much older players, so it's alright to field him. But is he is rather weak then I would wait. If you're still playing in low divisions than it's easier to let him play along, because he would get better ratings and not too much resistance (technically and physically). Therefor it might be a good idea to loan out younger players to lower divisions first. And finally do I think that attacking players have it easier than defending players or controlling players. So young attackers whould fare better then a young DC.

he has strength -4- which is weak... but he has -13- natural fitness and -10- stamina which means I can run him into the ground and he'll still recover enough to play the next match... (I won't of course ) I think the only thing letting him down is his strength and will probably give him a higher than normal strength training schedule rather than a specific "individual focus" as that can be used to better effect elsewhere. Playing him will also help to increase his strength of course...

I've yet to play him, but then he's still on holiday (I've not yet played FM today). Of course I'll keep the thread updated with his progress but my game is 84 days old and I'm just starting season 4 so updates will be few and far between..

Thanks for all the advice everybody.

Post updates in the Rate my regen thread please I'd be quite interested in seeing how he develops.

You might also want to immediately offer him whatever he will accept as a future professional contract to tie him to your team longer.

i've seen players with high finishing and low technique perform better with the shoots with power ppm

and players with high technique and low finishing perform better with places shots

and players with high finishing and technique; no ppm needed; they score anyway XD

You might also want to immediately offer him whatever he will accept as a future professional contract to tie him to your team longer.

Hehe, I have my youth team coach set to renew contracts, he's signed a £90pw future-contract agreement... but Fulham are sniffing and he hasn't even played a game yet

i've seen players with high finishing and low technique perform better with the shoots with power ppm

and players with high technique and low finishing perform better with places shots

and players with high finishing and technique; no ppm needed; they score anyway XD

High Finishing, Flair - shoots with power

High Composure, Balance - places shots

That is the way I do it anyways, and it works very well for me.

If they're good enough, they're old enough.

That's certainly been my philosophy in my current Granada CF save. I've been carefully developing my youth system and facilities and although my own academy has yet to produce a single player worthy of promotion to the first team, I've been bringing in some very talented youngsters from externally and working with them.

Having managed to sign several excellent prospects and becoming a little annoyed with some of my "star" players, I decided to give them a run in the team. They performed admirably and helped me clinch the league title and EURO Cup. Their attributes have risen dramatically for their time in the first team and now heading into my third season at the club, three or four of them are looking like they can force their way to being first choice players this season.

The average age of my squad is around 22 years old, but only because I have one or two veteran players who are excellent for tutoring and leadership. I don't specifically plan to have a young team, but like to get the core of a squad together, that I can work with for several years, thus not having to change the squad much each season. I simply keep trying to develop more young players, so I've always got one or two options that can hopefully progress from within. As a small club that will never be able to compete with the likes of Barcelona and Real Madrid financially, plus is of much lower reputation, it's this approach that is absolutely vital for my club, longer term.

With young players like you have, it's absolutely vital that as soon as you think they are a great prospect, tie them down to a long contract, insert high minimum release fee clauses, set their asking prices high and keep interacting with them via personal chats. The latter is important and will help make you one of their favoured personnel.

It's pretty clear to me that players don't develop anywhere near as much in the youth team as they do playing in a professional league. The higher up the quicker the development.

I never leave promising youth players to play in my youth team. If they aren't good enough to be playing in the first team I get them out on loan ASAP. Youth team is mostly useless for me, I'd prob not even have it, except for the fact that it is convenient. The only youth players that play in it are ones who are either too young to loan out or will never make the team (usually I get rid of the crap as soon as they appear in my under 18's squad).

It's pretty clear to me that players don't develop anywhere near as much in the youth team as they do playing in a professional league. The higher up the quicker the development.

I never leave promising youth players to play in my youth team. If they aren't good enough to be playing in the first team I get them out on loan ASAP. Youth team is mostly useless for me, I'd prob not even have it, except for the fact that it is convenient. The only youth players that play in it are ones who are either too young to loan out or will never make the team (usually I get rid of the crap as soon as they appear in my under 18's squad).

you do realise that although it may seem good to rush young players into the first team it wont always lead to good results, you can burn out young players if they play too much first team football too early.

I personally leave them in the youth team until they turn 18 or 19, then a year on loan and then they are worked into the first team, i now have 3 world class players i have brought through this way.

you do realise that although it may seem good to rush young players into the first team it wont always lead to good results, you can burn out young players if they play too much first team football too early.

I personally leave them in the youth team until they turn 18 or 19, then a year on loan and then they are worked into the first team, i now have 3 world class players i have brought through this way.

I know there's a lot of debate about burn out IRL right now, but does it really happen in FM? I always fast track my players into the first team if they're good enough (I had a 15/16 year old as my first choice left back for a while), and I've never seen burnout, they all go on to long careers well into their 30's

I know there's a lot of debate about burn out IRL right now, but does it really happen in FM? I always fast track my players into the first team if they're good enough (I had a 15/16 year old as my first choice left back for a while), and I've never seen burnout, they all go on to long careers well into their 30's

I guess it would be hard to test, personally speaking i seem to get better progression by not rushing them into first team football, but i guess you could say that could have purely been down to the different players and not the way they have been trained. I definately have had young players exhausted after playing too many games and thus their stats have gone down, again tho it could be tied into the player as much as the situation.

the youth team is definitely not redundant tho and should not be ignored.

I guess it would be hard to test, personally speaking i seem to get better progression by not rushing them into first team football, but i guess you could say that could have purely been down to the different players and not the way they have been trained. I definately have had young players exhausted after playing too many games and thus their stats have gone down, again tho it could be tied into the player as much as the situation.

the youth team is definitely not redundant tho and should not be ignored.

Fair enough, I completely agree though, the youth team is a very important tool.

I don't think they actually get burned out like IRL but if the youngster in question doesn't have great physical stats yet, then starting him every week playing 90 minutes after 90 minutes will get him tired and jaded faster which will lead to worse performances and in consequence a slower development.

If the lad is just a physical "monster" then it should be fine to give him a lot of playing time.

Yea coentrao i would say your right, if the player has good physical stats they will prob cope fine, but if its a player who requires more attention then rushing them can be detrimental.

I'd say play him, but at first in easy matches while setting him up against the opposition's slowest centreback. Also get someone like Bauza to partner him and play lots of throughballs in his path. You could possibly even set him as the selected target man with run onto ball instructions. You can also start playing him in the big matches where the opposition has slow centerbacks from the start because your coach says he "thrives in the big matches".

This is pretty detailed micro-management, but it can be very worthwile..

Also, don't tutor him unless you find a monster tutor with >16 determination and a professional personality. Soar starts of with a brilliant personality and should be able to develop anyway.

It's pretty clear to me that players don't develop anywhere near as much in the youth team as they do playing in a professional league. The higher up the quicker the development.

I never leave promising youth players to play in my youth team. If they aren't good enough to be playing in the first team I get them out on loan ASAP. Youth team is mostly useless for me, I'd prob not even have it, except for the fact that it is convenient. The only youth players that play in it are ones who are either too young to loan out or will never make the team (usually I get rid of the crap as soon as they appear in my under 18's squad).

I agree with you, except one thing: they need tutoring to get their Determination and hidden stats up to par with the first team squad so that it is possible to motivate them and keep them from being nervous and complacent. This can't be done when they are out on loan, and sending out players without high Determination and good hidden ambition/professionality/pressure/consistency attributes means they will likely play badly and develop slowly.

So while they are 15-18 I tutor them. Then, when their current ability is good enough to let them play in a decent club (2nd or 1st division), I loan them out if they are not better than the talent I already have in my first team squad.

I'd say play him, but at first in easy matches while setting him up against the opposition's slowest centreback. Also get someone like Bauza to partner him and play lots of throughballs in his path. You could possibly even set him as the selected target man with run onto ball instructions. You can also start playing him in the big matches where the opposition has slow centerbacks from the start because your coach says he "thrives in the big matches".

This is pretty detailed micro-management, but it can be very worthwile..

Also, don't tutor him unless you find a monster tutor with >16 determination and a professional personality. Soar starts of with a brilliant personality and should be able to develop anyway.

He's playing every game... I can't not play him as he is just obviously too good. He's got one U21 cap and an assist and Everton, Chelsea and Fulham are sniffing around him - I expect a bid in January. Bauza isn't getting a sniff of the first-team at the moment, he's not even on the bench... Rabihou plays my DLF role perfectly. Soar plays as an AdvF and with Diaw and Pilks on the wings both of whom like to cut inside and play through balls, it works well. My only mistake was getting him to learn the offside trap ppm before the places shots but he's scoring goals regularly and even got himself a hat-trick a couple of matches ago so it's not really a problem.

I had an amazing prospect come through when I was in Serie C/1 and he was far too good to not be a first teamer straight away. I haven't played this save in a month or so but I think he is 22 or 23 now and one of the Serie A stars as well as a regular for Italy. He is the leading goal scorer for the club and has played the most games for the club and is now (at least) a club icon.

So yeah, in short, if he is good enough, play him.

Careful though. The next Michael Owen? So he'll be a star for the first half of his career and then go and rot on someone's bench?

*caws evily as he flies off*