is a final update/patch in march acceptable regarding the end of a season?

fm is a beautiful concept, further to this fm isn't just about the 10/11 season, it's about nurturing talents beyond 2014 etc etc. however from a games developer perspective is it truly acceptable that a patch isn't finalized a whole month after the important transfer window??

i don't want to turn this into an s.i bashing, or a desperate 'where is the patch' thread but i have to be honest it feels very bad that the final version of fm 11 is only complete roughly two months before the fa cup final and the end of the season??

what the development team do from mid december to late jan i am unsure, then a further month?? i am very confused exactly what goes on in an computer games development team? is it acceptable we get a completed game based around a season of football only a brief while before this season finishes?

Well what do you think they do work on the patch and the many fixes and data changes it needs its not a overnight operation

I did state the timeline, it seems from 11.2.1 there has been quite some overlap, half of dec, all of jan and feb, a finished game for a season over with

I did state the timeline, it seems from 11.2.1 there has been quite some overlap, half of dec, all of jan and feb, a finished game for a season over with

Im sure they break up pal like the rest of us over xmas new year and transfer window only be closed 26 days even less in some countries

I think what you are trying to say is that SI should have more of a perfected game in the first place when released so that there will be less bugs and fixes and thus less witing time for patches. to which i can see your point!

However, you can't bite the hand that feeds you.

Suggestion (what I am now going to do) - Maybe the best way to do it is to only buy the newest version of the game when the 11.3 patch has been released ie. only buy FM2012 when the 11.3 patch for that game is released.

This way you will have a whole year to play the best version of the game and plenty of time to play far enough to develop your youngsters and your empire.

My guess would be that there's a helluva lot more that needs to go into patching this game than you give SI credit for. I'm not a game developer, though, so my opinion is of very marginal validity.

If they were only releasing a transfer update that would be one thing, but there is also a lot of work put into bugfixes. If they could have the patch ready for the first of February, I'm sure they'd have it straight out the door, because most of them aren't just developers, they're players of the game too

I think what you are trying to say is that SI should have more of a perfected game in the first place when released so that there will be less bugs and fixes and thus less witing time for patches. to which i can see your point!

However, you can't bite the hand that feeds you.

Suggestion (what I am now going to do) - Maybe the best way to do it is to only buy the newest version of the game when the 11.3 patch has been released ie. only buy FM2012 when the 11.3 patch for that game is released.

This way you will have a whole year to play the best version of the game and plenty of time to play far enough to develop your youngsters and your empire.

This is what I do, did it with fm2010 and now with 11. In fact my copy (should) arrive Monday so blatantly thats when the patch is going to be released ;-)

fm is a beautiful concept, further to this fm isn't just about the 10/11 season, it's about nurturing talents beyond 2014 etc etc. however from a games developer perspective is it truly acceptable that a patch isn't finalized a whole month after the important transfer window??

i don't want to turn this into an s.i bashing, or a desperate 'where is the patch' thread but i have to be honest it feels very bad that the final version of fm 11 is only complete roughly two months before the fa cup final and the end of the season??

what the development team do from mid december to late jan i am unsure, then a further month?? i am very confused exactly what goes on in an computer games development team? is it acceptable we get a completed game based around a season of football only a brief while before this season finishes?

They are under no obligation to make any patches or data updates. You are lucky that they do, as many software developers don't do anything like SI do. So be grateful!

yes when they had Rooney banned from all international games on the previous version i was very grateful they released a fix

fm is a beautiful concept, further to this fm isn't just about the 10/11 season, it's about nurturing talents beyond 2014 etc etc. however from a games developer perspective is it truly acceptable that a patch isn't finalized a whole month after the important transfer window??

i don't want to turn this into an s.i bashing, or a desperate 'where is the patch' thread but i have to be honest it feels very bad that the final version of fm 11 is only complete roughly two months before the fa cup final and the end of the season??

what the development team do from mid december to late jan i am unsure, then a further month?? i am very confused exactly what goes on in an computer games development team? is it acceptable we get a completed game based around a season of football only a brief while before this season finishes?

Whats confusing is that without any idea of what goes on in software development you simply have a moan because your precious schedule is not being adheared to. When a patch is written they don't just fix the bugs, click apply and hey presto all is good with the world again. They have to test the patch as though it were a brand new piece of software, sometimes when fixes are applied it can create a brand new bug in a totally different piece of code, which then has to be fixed and retested. Game development is not a 9-5 job and I imagine that SI are working very long hours to ensure that the final (hopefully) patch is released without any further problems.

So to your good self and to anybody else who wishes to moan about the time it takes for a patch to be released, would you rather a great piece of software that takes a little bit longer to produce ? or a rushed effort that will need to be fixed again several weeks later?

It wasn't meant to be a 'moan' I'm just saying the season is nearly over pretty much as we get the final game. That being said I would love to see the ins and outs regarding a games developers day to do

I am curious why the last patch of the game is always the best one. What prevents them from getting it right when the game is released? Or perhaps the buyers really are beta testers, which is why only the 3rd patch gets to its best.

It wasn't meant to be a 'moan' I'm just saying the season is nearly over pretty much as we get the final game. That being said I would love to see the ins and outs regarding a games developers day to do

I spent 2 years with a game developer in my early 20's and lets just say the work is relentless, but the atmosphere was always great. Publishers like SEGA are always hounding for release dates and fans always slating and saying that they could do better (not a dig). If you ever get a chance to spend any time with a software company then advise take it because it really opens your eyes.

I am curious why the last patch of the game is always the best one. What prevents them from getting it right when the game is released? Or perhaps the buyers really are beta testers, which is why only the 3rd patch gets to its best.

Possibly because if the second patch were the best, there would be no need for a 3rd one (other than a databse update)?

I am curious why the last patch of the game is always the best one. What prevents them from getting it right when the game is released? Or perhaps the buyers really are beta testers, which is why only the 3rd patch gets to its best.

I do feel that SI should open up BETA testing like they did with FMLive to a selection of players because I truly believe it would help the game in the long run. It is impossible to find every bug with a single testing team as there are so many different PC's out there with numerous Software applications running in the background all of which can cause problems or none at all when running FM or any other application.

While I understand everybody is eagerly waiting the new patch, it will be ready when its ready, I'm pretty sure they didnt just wait till after the window before they started work on it. They would have started well before then. If it was just the players they were updating it probably would have been ready 1st Feb. I'm guessing the fix list will be huge and hopefully solves most of the problems.

I can't wait myself, Ive been waiting for this patch since November as now I wait to buy it when its finished, it came through the post on monday and its been sitting staring at my on the desk all week saying 'play me, play me' I know it will be as soon as possible though.

I do feel that SI should open up BETA testing like they did with FMLive to a selection of players because I truly believe it would help the game in the long run. It is impossible to find every bug with a single testing team as there are so many different PC's out there with numerous Software applications running in the background all of which can cause problems or none at all when running FM or any other application.

I think they did on one version (possibly FM07) but it ended up on piratebay before the full game was even released. I hope they do consider doing it again tho.

I do feel that SI should open up BETA testing like they did with FMLive to a selection of players because I truly believe it would help the game in the long run. It is impossible to find every bug with a single testing team as there are so many different PC's out there with numerous Software applications running in the background all of which can cause problems or none at all when running FM or any other application.

Yeah, I dont think they test it well enough. The problems that arrise on long term games are usually very apparent, so not enough of them are properly testing long term saves. Some bugs, like the penalty 1 last year should be spotted before the game is released. I think they rely too heavily on patches these day. We are beta testers for the game now and the final patch is from our feedback, We beta test it from november to march.

Maybe they should release an official database update after January aside from the patch. I'm sure they've considered it.

to be honest i dont think it is acceptable. the release date of the game gets later and later and now the patch, before you go calling me a moan ive bought the game every year without fail since it was out on the amiga so i feel im entitled to my tuppence worth. Sports Interactive will constantly remind us of the fact that every year the game breaks boundarys, tops charts and wins awards, this is due to people like me and you buying the game. Its about time S.I. rewarded our loyalty by putting their hands in their pockets and recruiting more staff to enable them to get the game and the patch out a bit faster.

I am curious why the last patch of the game is always the best one. What prevents them from getting it right when the game is released? Or perhaps the buyers really are beta testers, which is why only the 3rd patch gets to its best.

This is inevitably true. In a sense anyone who buys a computer game is a tester, because it is impossible for the testing team (a tiny number compared to FM's purchasers) to test the game in as many different configurations over as many hours as the customer-base. There are bound to be bugs reported that the testers never encountered, just as there are bound to be some that were spotted but were considered low priority and weren't able to fixed before deadlines. Then there are deliberate changes that prove unpopular with the customers, such as the alterations to tutoring in the first version of FM11. It's to SI's credit that they changed some of these back for the second patch after people complained; they certainly didn't have to!

So in conclusion, yes we are testers, but there isn't anything that can be done about it!

to be honest i dont think it is acceptable. the release date of the game gets later and later and now the patch, before you go calling me a moan ive bought the game every year without fail since it was out on the amiga so i feel im entitled to my tuppence worth. Sports Interactive will constantly remind us of the fact that every year the game breaks boundarys, tops charts and wins awards, this is due to people like me and you buying the game. Its about time S.I. rewarded our loyalty by putting their hands in their pockets and recruiting more staff to enable them to get the game and the patch out a bit faster.

"It's not acceptable, but I buy the game every year anyway!"

Why on earth would SI change their approach when they have customers like you?

Of course i buy the game every year. as the OP states its a wonderful concept and one that i enjoy but as my point states the release date and patch releases get later and later.

Who the hell are you to state what kind of customer i am anyway, i'll tell you, a loyal one who has been playuing the game since you were probably wearing nappy's you little tit.

Who the hell are you to state what kind of customer i am anyway

I'm re-iterating what kind of customer you are based on your post. You are unhappy but you keep buying the product anyway. Thus giving SI no incentive to change their current way of working you are still buying their game.

I am curious why the last patch of the game is always the best one. What prevents them from getting it right when the game is released? Or perhaps the buyers really are beta testers, which is why only the 3rd patch gets to its best.

:thup:I agree about all of your word..I think we are test team..But we don't earn, we pay..after 4 patches everyone issued a lot of bugs as me.. And these bugs are not small bugs..I have not played game since december...But as a customer i must reach full satisfaction when game released without patches..not after 4 months..and actually i am not sure about new patch will succeed when i see 11.1.1 and 11.2.1..

to be honest i dont think it is acceptable. the release date of the game gets later and later and now the patch, before you go calling me a moan ive bought the game every year without fail since it was out on the amiga so i feel im entitled to my tuppence worth. Sports Interactive will constantly remind us of the fact that every year the game breaks boundarys, tops charts and wins awards, this is due to people like me and you buying the game. Its about time S.I. rewarded our loyalty by putting their hands in their pockets and recruiting more staff to enable them to get the game and the patch out a bit faster.

?????

The release date & patch dates have stayed fairly constant for over 10 years aside from the odd exception.

BOYCOTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

s

im unhappy about one thing in what is an otherwise flawless product why on earth would i stop buying it? in an ideal world the release date and patch release date could come quicker, as i state in my original post s.i. could repay the loyalty of its loyal fans by employing more staff in order to get these things done quicker, a completely valid and fair point. and as again, as a customer im more than entitled to say this.

the odd exception?? the games release date used to be early october. the patch was almost always ready before/around valentines day, think your getting yourself a wee bit mixed up there.

BOYCOTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's always about voting with your wallet at the end of the day. The product continues to sell well, SI maintain they try their hardest with the timescales and resources they have available. Those resources aren't going to get increased unless they are going to see a return on the investment. If they can guarantee that if they employed another 10 people to develop the game that it would ship x amount more units then they probably would do it.

I'd wager the majority of people who play the game aren't even aware there's been a single patch. A minority of forumites does not a buyer-base make.

its not acceptable,all games have bugs in them.but thats not the reason si should bring a game out as bad as this one.there is only one solution in my book,and that is to bring this game out once every 2yrs.then there is no reason why there should be a game like this version,which has so many bugs in it.yes there will be bugs in the game still.but not to the point of this one.si have got where they are today,thx to all of us that buy the game.without us buying the game,they would be nowhere.i will get slated for this,but there are to many people on here that stick up for si.if the game continues to come out every year,then please everyone,dont buy the game untill the final patch is done.then you will see a change in the attitude of si.

im unhappy about one thing in what is an otherwise flawless product why on earth would i stop buying it? in an ideal world the release date and patch release date could come quicker, as i state in my original post s.i. could repay the loyalty of its loyal fans by employing more staff in order to get these things done quicker, a completely valid and fair point. and as again, as a customer im more than entitled to say this.

How does employing more staff guarantee the game and patches would be released quicker?

the odd exception?? the games release date used to be early october. the patch was almost always ready before/around valentines day, think your getting yourself a wee bit mixed up there.

I don't have the exact dates but one of my friend's birthdays is the 30th October and the game has always been released around that date. As for the third patch I'm sure Matt said in a thread that the earliest its ever been released is 14th February and that was an exception rather than a rule!

How does employing more staff guarantee the game and patches would be released quicker?

are you actually expecting me to answer that question?

I don't have the exact dates but one of my friend's birthdays is the 30th October and the game has always been released around that date. As for the third patch I'm sure Matt said in a thread that the earliest its ever been released is 14th February and that was an exception rather than a rule!

This years game was released on the 5th of November.

Whilst the football season runs from August to May the FM season runs from November to around August/September time for a fair amount of players, once the new season starts a lot do begin to lose interest but the game is on a delayed schedule, even after May comes and goes I'll still be playing FM11. After the summer I'll probably get bored of it by then and be playing other stuff awaiting FM12.

This years game was released on the 5th of November.

The week after his birthday, your point is?

The release date of the game gets later and later

You are wrong.

FM05 was released on the 5th November

FM06 was released on the 21st October

FM07 was released on the 20th October

FM08 was released on the 18th October

FM09 was released on the 14th November

FM10 was released on the 30th October

FM11 was released on the 5th November

All release dates above are for the EU. Other areas like AU and NA have November release dates for the October release date versions.

The week after his birthday, your point is?

that it gets later and later, which it does. it changes every year. employ more staff, set a deadline and stick to it. simple.

Personally I feel that the patching strategy is completely unacceptable.

You are wrong.

FM05 was released on the 5th November

FM06 was released on the 21st October

FM07 was released on the 20th October

FM08 was released on the 18th October

FM09 was released on the 14th November

FM10 was released on the 30th October

FM11 was released on the 5th November

All release dates above are for the EU. Other areas like AU and NA have November release dates for the October release date versions.

how am i wrong? you have just completely backed up my point. look at release date for fm08 and fm09 thats almost a month later, fair enough some years its out quicker, my point is if s.i. got more staff on board they could set a deadline every year and stick to it, both for release date and patch, i struggle to find what you find so puzzling about that??

how am i wrong?

Because you said it gets worse year-on-year. It doesn't.

Personally I feel that the patching strategy is completely unacceptable.

yes i agree

my point is if s.i. got more staff on board they could set a deadline every year and stick to it, both for release date and patch, i struggle to find what you find so puzzling about that??

Because it doesn't make financial sense to employ x amount of staff, to try and get a game out a couple of weeks earlier.

Because it doesn't make financial sense to employ x amount of staff, to try and get a game out a couple of weeks earlier.

are you honestly pulling my leg here or are you just blatantly stupid?

Because it doesn't make financial sense to employ x amount of staff, to try and get a game out a couple of weeks earlier.

More importantly they use a code tree system of development (all multi module software does) which means there are X number of branches and only one person can code on each branch at once, so if there are 30 branches there's absolutely no point in employing 31 coders.

are you actually expecting me to answer that question?

I don't really care if you do or not it's a valid question though.

More importantly they use a code tree system of development (all multi module software does) which means there are X number of branches and only one person can code on each branch at once, so if there are 30 branches there's absolutely no point in employing 31 coders.

please just get this game sorted asap,we are in march on tuesday,and the game is still not sorted.

that it gets later and later, which it does. it changes every year. employ more staff, set a deadline and stick to it. simple.

they do set a deadline.

CaptainPlanet just listed them.

FM05 was released on the 5th November

FM06 was released on the 21st October

FM07 was released on the 20th October

FM08 was released on the 18th October

FM09 was released on the 14th November

FM10 was released on the 30th October

FM11 was released on the 5th November

Simple.

I agree a shift towards late September release with any patches then being independent of a February data update would be nice, but it's not as if SI is in shambles. They've released it when they told us they would every year.

I don't really care if you do or not it's a valid question though.

do you really want me to sit here and give you the whole "2 pairs of hands is better than 1" story?