Clean up the forum

Why can't SI re-organise their forum, and have sub-folders within the General Discussion forum. Off the top of my head, why not have something like:

• Patch Information and Questions - used for newbie's to ask when it's out, and for SI to post updates or official information.
  
• Rants - people to rant about their last match, or features they don't like, or that last minute goal, etc.
  
• Records and Funny Events - threads for the most goals in a season, or funny screenshots, etc.
  
• How to... - threads about how to sell players, or what certain features mean or work, what attributes mean, etc.
  
• User Reviews and Comments of FM11 compared to previous versions - threads for people to ask what the differences are between previous versions, or if a feature is in/out of this version.
  

Thats just a random selection of sub-folders, but it would really help. For example, I couldn't care less about threads about patch release dates, or people ranting that the game isn't working. I want to just read things that interest me, so if they were organised in a particular way, I could easily ignore the threads I don't want to see, and not have to really search through the rubbish to see interesting things.

Thoughts?

Because people wouldn't post in the right section and it would mean more work for the mods.

If the sections were called obvious things (my off-the-top-of-my-head examples may not be good enough), then I think they would, but if not, mods need to get stricter in just moving them. I've been on plenty of forums that have very defined sub-forums and it works very well, and I normally find the information I'm after very quickly!

totally agree with this. the amount of hostility from regular forum users towards newbies is a bit extreme and would simply be avoided everytime if we had more user friendly sub catagories. a daily blog/update/thread from the makers on patches, game problems and general news would also cut out the regular "whens the new patch out/ when its ready" threads.

the silence sometimes creates problems.

Just look at the sub-forums in this forum - http://www.techradar.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=1 - and I think this one could be similar, and make the whole forum experience quicker and easier for people to find the info they're interested in.

We already have quite a lot of FM sub forums and this particular one has always just been used for all the stuff that doesn't fit into the others, which is probably why it seems a little unorganised.

Usually if there is enough demand for a sub forum because this forum is getting flooded with threads, then a new sub forum is opened. The 'Challenges, sign ups and experiments' and 'Career updates' forums are examples from recent years. Keep the ideas coming though, if there are types of threads in here that really need a new forum then they could always be considered.

There should definately be a subforum called something like 'Patch'. Just to hopefully keep all the 'when is the patch out' thread out of GD. Maybe put a massive header in there saying ITS NOT OUT YET!!!

We already have quite a lot of FM sub forums and this particular one has always just been used for all the stuff that doesn't fit into the others, which is probably why it seems a little unorganised.

Usually if there is enough demand for a sub forum because this forum is getting flooded with threads, then a new sub forum is opened. The 'Challenges, sign ups and experiments' and 'Career updates' forums are examples from recent years. Keep the ideas coming though, if there are types of threads in here that really need a new forum then they could always be considered.

I've noticed you're a moderator, so I'll be a little careful, but perhaps the mods could be a bit stricter when it comes to enforcing the sub-forums - for example, moving all the "Is my computer good enough" and PC problem threads out of General Discussion and into the PC/Mac Support forum.

Perhaps if people stuck to the existing sub forums better (and the mods need to encourage this), then maybe it wouldn't be so disorganised. Just a thought, maybe it's the time of the year for a million similar threads!

Sub Forums a good idea, if only to clear all the rants, tirades, and hysterical tantrums off the main board which should be a place of positive discussion around the game and possible improvements.

IMO Mods would do well to direct rants into the appropriate bug thread and close them down in GD. People need to learn to feedback in the proper manner and structure rather than scribbling endless paragraphs of teenage angst in GD.

There should definately be a subforum called something like 'Patch'. Just to hopefully keep all the 'when is the patch out' thread out of GD. Maybe put a massive header in there saying ITS NOT OUT YET!!!

Tbh, you could change the background in here to a big flashing sign saying "THERE IS NO RELEASE DATE FOR THE PATCH" and you'd still get a load of people asking when a patch is coming out.

I appreciate that we could do a bit more to move threads about (like merging the spec related ones into one thread) but at the end of the day we are just volunteers who come on and do this in our leisure time. If I'm online when a new thread is started that obviously does not belong here then I quite often move/merge them, the problem is I'm only really online for any length of time at evenings/weekends/holidays. I'll be the first to admit that cleaning up the forum isn't the first thing I think about when I get home from work!

There are definitely cycles in the year when certain types of threads turn up, the 'when is the patch out' types threads are a perfect example of that. This forum either side of a patch release can be a bit of a nightmare.

I appreciate that we could do a bit more to move threads about (like merging the spec related ones into one thread) but at the end of the day we are just volunteers who come on and do this in our leisure time. If I'm online when a new thread is started that obviously does not belong here then I quite often move/merge them, the problem is I'm only really online for any length of time at evenings/weekends/holidays. I'll be the first to admit that cleaning up the forum isn't the first thing I think about when I get home from work!

There are definitely cycles in the year when certain types of threads turn up, the 'when is the patch out' types threads are a perfect example of that. This forum either side of a patch release can be a bit of a nightmare.

How does somebody with a lot of time on their hands go about becoming a mod. Even if for a temporary basis to cover busy periods like pre patch release?

Im sure there are a lot like me who at the moment, have a lot of time spare and get really fed up with constantly waiting for threads to be closed or things to be dealt with. I understand you mods have lives and have better things to do Some of us on the other hand dont have a life (at the moment) and could offer help if only on a temporary basis.

How does somebody with a lot of time on their hands go about becoming a mod. Even if for a temporary basis to cover busy periods like pre patch release?

Im sure there are a lot like me who at the moment, have a lot of time spare and get really fed up with constantly waiting for threads to be closed or things to be dealt with. I understand you mods have lives and have better things to do Some of us on the other hand dont have a life (at the moment) and could offer help if only on a temporary basis.

It really is a case of being chosen, rather than putting your own name forward. Existing mods and SI staff usually recommend people who they think would be suitable as moderators before discussions take place about an appointment.

In this particular forum it would be likely to be the people who are consistently helpful in their posts without rubbing other users up the wrong way. Good, informed responses (with appropriate links) are easy enough to give in the forum if you know it well enough.

It really is a case of being chosen, rather than putting your own name forward. Existing mods and SI staff usually recommend people who they think would be suitable as moderators before discussions take place about an appointment.

In this particular forum it would be likely to be the people who are consistently helpful in their posts without rubbing other users up the wrong way. Good, informed responses (with appropriate links) are easy enough to give in the forum if you know it well enough.

I know I am guilty of this :o But its simply because of being annoyed with the same old threads and having to wait sometimes hours for them to be dealt with. Like I said, some of us have a lot of time on our hand and are on here quite a lot so maybe we see these more than most and certainly more than some mods who have a lot on their plates. Theres only so long that you can smile and say 'no not today' before it starts to grate. I know I could just ignore it but thats easier said than done. Especially when your seeing it all day

looks like we should watch what we say lol!!

looks like we should watch what we say lol!!

Its hard though isnt it. Like ive said above, when your seeing the same thing constantly its hard for somebody like my to bite my tongue. Its ok for a mod to say ignore it when they are only on here a couple of hours a day. I know I shouldnt let it get to me but it really does. But the biggest thing that annoys me is when people just wont read. Its obvious your not going to read every post of a 500 post thread but at least take time to check the OP at the very least and maybe the last 10 posts in the thread. The amount of posts in the editors forum in threads for databases where somebody asks when it will be out and the answer is two posts above theirs is unbelievable. If you have a problem, the first place you should be looking is the FAQ thread. How do people not know this? And when people have a question, why do they suddenly lose the the ability to use google. Its like all common sense goes out of the window.

Aaaaand breathe!!! Rant over lol.

Sorry :o

When I read the thread title I thought this was about deleting old threads to make space. Now that would be something nice.

haha seems like we are similar!! It annoys me when people dont read the forums before making a new thread about something that has been discussed or sorted, but i guess we are in the minority mate!

I guess thats what we get for being "fanbois" and probably spending too much time on here!!

haha seems like we are similar!! It annoys me when people dont read the forums before making a new thread about something that has been discussed or sorted, but i guess we are in the minority mate!

I guess thats what we get for being "fanbois" and probably spending too much time on here!!

I just say things how I see it and dont pussyfoot around. And typing it doesnt help either. You might mean to say something where if it was heard it would be completely fine, but when its read, especially the wrong way, you come across as an arrogant tool. Thats the problem im having now and have basically recieved another infraction today because of that very thing. When I type something I know exactly how Im saying it and how its supposed to sound. If somebody reading that takes it the wrong way, how is that my fault?

But anyway thats a completely different story

there are plenty of stickied threads and links at the top of each page with a lot of information that a lot of people make new threads about.

the search function has never been the best but most of the time it will help you find what you are looking for.

the addition of new sub-forums may work well, but then again they may just be ignored like a lot of information on here

Having a decent search that doesn't have a silly time limit between searches would also do a lot to improve the forum. The search has been pretty poor for some time now, and not being able to refine searches without twiddling your thumbs unnecessarily is the icing on the cake, and probably discourages a lot more people than just me from refining their searches - especially if the first couple aren't getting the hits you want.

haha seems like we are similar!! It annoys me when people dont read the forums before making a new thread about something that has been discussed or sorted, but i guess we are in the minority mate!

I guess thats what we get for being "fanbois" and probably spending too much time on here!!

I'm actually the opposite (which I thought was the minority). I quite like the repetitive questions that have been answered a hundred times before because I can usually reel off a decent response that answers the question immediately, allowing it to drop down the page. It's the ones which get bickering instead of a decent response that I dislike, they stay at the top of the page for much longer.

Saying that, I think I have high levels of patience and tolerance, which not everyone will have.

I'm actually the opposite (which I thought was the minority). I quite like the repetitive questions that have been answered a hundred times before because I can usually reel off a decent response that answers the question immediately, allowing it to drop down the page. It's the ones which get bickering instead of a decent response that I dislike, they stay at the top of the page for much longer.

Saying that, I think I have high levels of patience and tolerance, which not everyone will have.

hence why your a mod and me and steve will probably never be!! hahahaha

I do get involved in a lot of bickering on here because i defend the game, i do think people over react at times but i guess i should just leave them too it!

I'm actually the opposite (which I thought was the minority). I quite like the repetitive questions that have been answered a hundred times before because I can usually reel off a decent response that answers the question immediately, allowing it to drop down the page. It's the ones which get bickering instead of a decent response that I dislike, they stay at the top of the page for much longer.

Saying that, I think I have high levels of patience and tolerance, which not everyone will have.

Exactly why a mod should be on hand straight away to reel off the line which answers the question and then lock the thread

Because people wouldn't post in the right section and it would mean more work for the mods.

This. Much the same for every forum known to man.

Newbies will just post wherever they like, and despite the multitude of criticism they will receive, eventuallyu some kind soul will answer them anyway.

hence why your a mod and me and steve will probably never be!! hahahaha

I do get involved in a lot of bickering on here because i defend the game, i do think people over react at times but i guess i should just leave them too it!

I think people like you and I would be brilliant mods. Were here pretty much all day, dont take any c**p and can give an answer immediately and lock the threads. Im actually a very calm person when I can actually deal with something straight away. Its when the frustration builds from about 7.30am to around 1am that tends to get the better of me

Having a decent search that doesn't have a silly time limit between searches would also do a lot to improve the forum. The search has been pretty poor for some time now, and not being able to refine searches without twiddling your thumbs unnecessarily is the icing on the cake, and probably discourages a lot more people than just me from refining their searches - especially if the first couple aren't getting the hits you want.

That time limit is ridiculously annoying! They really need to get rid of it imo, because as you say, I'll search for something once, maybe twice, and if I haven't found what I want, then I'm going to give up looking because I just don't want to sit here waiting needlessly until I'm allowed to search again.

I used to be like StevoRobbo. I don't think I am anymore and I have become more patient. The patch threads I don't mind and other threads I don't mind either. The problems start when someone comes in and says why don't you look in an angry way. Then you get everyone else coming in and jumping in as well which will probably make the person who posted the question feel unhappy. I'm sure the forums are meant to be freindly. If I see a thread and can't help then I don't post anything anymore as it isn't helpful to just post something rubbish. There are plenty of people who can help with threads that I can't or others can't and vice versa. This makes the forums a friendly place. I don't think there needs to be any sub forums as the OP suggests it just needs people to be helpful and then threads that have fairly simple questions which could get people annoyed will be sorted fairly quickly.

I used to be one of those helpful GD posters. There was a small group of us basically fighting over who could help the next person to post a topic. Lasted a few months before I lost the will to remain calm and patient with the 500th "this game sucks, where's the patch?!" thread.

I think people like you and I would be brilliant mods. Were here pretty much all day, dont take any c**p and can give an answer immediately and lock the threads. Im actually a very calm person when I can actually deal with something straight away. Its when the frustration builds from about 7.30am to around 1am that tends to get the better of me

HAHAHA i could see 90% of all threads on here being shut after the OP and our reply.

"SI you have runied FM i want my (parents) hard earned money back"

"its your tactics, next"

LOL

I get frustrated that i waste most of my work day on here and still dont seem to get any better at the game!!

it just needs people to be helpful and then threads that have fairly simple questions which could get people annoyed will be sorted fairly quickly.

This coupled with mods being on the ball and closing these threads as soon as an appropriate answer has been given. But no mods closing the threads means them staying open which leaves them open to people wading in with unhelpful posts and then it descends into argument. So does it infact boil down to the fact that either:

a) the forum needs more mods

b) the forum needs more mods with more time on their hands

This coupled with mods being on the ball and closing these threads as soon as an appropriate answer has been given. But no mods closing the threads means them staying open which leaves them open to people wading in with unhelpful posts and then it descends into argument. So does it infact boil down to the fact that either:

a) the forum needs more mods

b) the forum needs more mods with more time on their hands

I don't know about that one tbh. The mods do a good enough job as it is and they do it as a helpful thing for the forums. I know FrazT is on alot in the mornings, sometimes and he does a good job. canvey!! has been doing alot lately or some stuff and dafuge is on in the evenings and then GillsMan is on quite a bit and Neji does a bit as well.

HAHAHA i could see 90% of all threads on here being shut after the OP and our reply.

"SI you have runied FM i want my (parents) hard earned money back"

"its your tactics, next"

LOL

I get frustrated that i waste most of my work day on here and still dont seem to get any better at the game!!

Haha if only.

Its quite simple though if you do what Dafuge has said. Have lines at hand to reel off. In those threads have a line like 'Constructive criticism is welcomed but unconstructive ranting is not needed. If you have any genuine issues, please report them in the bugs forum'.

The leave the thread open until the matter is resolved. If the OP continues to rant or if it descends into farce, close the thread. Then PM the OP and remind them about constructive criticism and where to post and to bear this in mind with any future issues. This will then hopefully stop the OP from immediately creating a new thread because their last thread has been closed which leads to more ranting. If they continue to make threads and rant, immediately delete them and hand out warnings/infractions.

With a clear set of guidlines and a bit of consitancy, it really would be as easy as that in most cases. If you have a txt file with all these lines in to reel off, 99% of the time it would be a case of copy & paste the line and then lock the thread.

In an ideal world anyway

the problem with that argument is that in a thread that is populated with bickering, there are often important/relevant pieces of information. going by what some mods have said over the years it takes a lot longer to delete the individual unwelcome posts and closing the thread often means that a good answer can not be posted.

sometimes ignoring the trolls is the best solution. some mods are more likely to send a poster a friendly informal PM warning them about their conduct (which we generally don't find out) and sometimes this is enough

tbh General Discussion is one of the most hostile sections of the forums. I've started to visit other parts of the forum more regularly than here because i just got sick of all the same things being asked over and over again that a lot of my posts here would just add to the hostility.

the problem with that argument is that in a thread that is populated with bickering, there are often important/relevant pieces of information. going by what some mods have said over the years it takes a lot longer to delete the individual unwelcome posts and closing the thread often means that a good answer can not be posted.

sometimes ignoring the trolls is the best solution. some mods are more likely to send a poster a friendly informal PM warning them about their conduct (which we generally don't find out) and sometimes this is enough

The solution to that is mods being on the ball and spotting these threads when they arise and offering relevant info. Job done. Then there is no bickering. Even a mod not being on hand for 10 minutes to do this can lead to them having much more work to deal with. In this 10 minutes you could have 25 posts, 20 of them bickering and now warnings need handing out and posts deleting. Its all down to speed, efficiency and a clear set of guidlines. I know the mods all do a good job. Nobody is knocking that. Im just saying maybe they need more of a helping hand because as everybody can see from the forums (especially before patches), a lot of things need doing with not enough bodies to do it. Thats how it seems to me anyway. Like I say, im here all day so I see these things.

tbh General Discussion is one of the most hostile sections of the forums. I've started to visit other parts of the forum more regularly than here because i just got sick of all the same things being asked over and over again that a lot of my posts here would just add to the hostility.

LLM is the most hostile place in the world for an outsider who doesn't know all the details, which to be fair, an outsider wouldn't. Most newbies would think that's a perfectly reasonable place to post their story or question about their lower league team, and the abuse they get back is unbelievable!

LLM is the most hostile place in the world for an outsider who doesn't know all the details, which to be fair, an outsider wouldn't. Most newbies would think that's a perfectly reasonable place to post their story or question about their lower league team, and the abuse they get back is unbelievable!

They have rules and if you read the forum rules they have then you would know this . If you didn't understand anything then you could just PM a mod who would kindly tell you anything you didn't understand .

LLM is the most hostile place in the world for an outsider who doesn't know all the details, which to be fair, an outsider wouldn't. Most newbies would think that's a perfectly reasonable place to post their story or question about their lower league team, and the abuse they get back is unbelievable!

I can just imagine a newbie going into LLM and making a thread asking what LLM means

On a serious note, can I say im happy that the people in this thread are actually having a good conversation. I would have thought with some of the topics being discussed that it may have turned into bickering and defending of the mods when nobody is actually having a go, just offering ideas and solutions to make this forum a better place

Thanks everyone

LLM is the most hostile place in the world for an outsider who doesn't know all the details, which to be fair, an outsider wouldn't. Most newbies would think that's a perfectly reasonable place to post their story or question about their lower league team, and the abuse they get back is unbelievable!

yeah i have never posted in LLM because its fm for extremists. But after LLM I honestly think General Discussion is the most hostile. Even more hostile than the football forum which has the odd troll but is otherwise not too bad.

LLM is definitely the most hostile place in here, but from my experiences in there (which didn't last long - i didn't read the stickies) it is harsh but fair.

obey their rules and you will be welcomed with open arms. ignore them and you will be flamed in a matter of seconds.

it works well in there because it is a smaller group.

this forum is massively populated in comparison, and for most new posters this is the first place to stop so it is harder to moderate.

who knows if more mods will work, as SteveRobbo says, some topics can have scores of posts in a matter of minutes, if a mod doesn't see this then they will always be playing catch-up.

we can all play a part by reporting posts that are not relevant, rude, etc... the more everyone can help the mods the easier it is for them to do their thing

LLM is definitely the most hostile place in here, but from my experiences in there (which didn't last long - i didn't read the stickies) it is harsh but fair.

obey their rules and you will be welcomed with open arms. ignore them and you will be flamed in a matter of seconds.

it works well in there because it is a smaller group.

this forum is massively populated in comparison, and for most new posters this is the first place to stop so it is harder to moderate.

who knows if more mods will work, as SteveRobbo says, some topics can have scores of posts in a matter of minutes, if a mod doesn't see this then they will always be playing catch-up.

we can all play a part by reporting posts that are not relevant, rude, etc... the more everyone can help the mods the easier it is for them to do their thing

I tried that and recieved an infraction today. All because of what I was talking about earlier, about how something you type comes over completely different to how you actually mean it to sound. So.............

Yeah SteveRobbo, it is nice to see a good discussion, I didn't actually think my post would generate so many responses. I mainly started it so I could find a way to ignore the petty posts haha!

Any improvements that can be made to the forums is a good thing, as long as everyone appreciates the fact that new people will mess up the "system", but if we can make the system as obvious as possible, then it should be relatively simple to clean up the few posts that are in the wrong area.

I will also say that new people do not read stickies, big font forum banners, or terms and conditions. They simply don't do it. Not out of rudeness, but it's honestly because they don't see them. I have joined forums in the past when I wanted to know one specific thing. I joined, ignored everything, posted my question, got my answer and never visited again. That's what a lot of new people do - asking a 1minute question is quicker than looking around for bigger font warnings.

That said, I'm sure SI have the coding experience (and certainly the general population on here would contain enough coding knowledge) to alter the abilities of this forum to be a bit cleverer. I am imagining a system such as:

- I start a new thread asking where the new patch is.

- I press "Submit New Thread".

- The website recognises I'm asking about the new patch, and pops up saying "I've noticed you seem to be posting about the new patch. Would you like to continue posting this in the General Discussion forum, or would you like to post it in the "Patch" forum, where it will receive more relevant views?" with two buttons so the user can pick.

If such a coding algorithm can be built, it would recognise queries about computer performance (and direct to a PC Performance forum), posts containing screenshots (which might be moved to a screenshot sub-forum), posts containing a bug report which could go to the Bugs forum, posts containing requests to start a new online game (can be directed towards Network Play) etc etc.

This sort of clever context-recogniser is used on other websites, mainly computer support websites and Amazon Help section employs a similar method. It wouldn't be 100% obviously, which is why a button gives you the option to let it remain in GD, but maybe some people would take that opportunity to choose the more relevant place?

- I start a new thread asking where the new patch is.

- I press "Submit New Thread".

- The website recognises I'm asking about the new patch, and pops up saying "I've noticed you seem to be posting about the new patch. Would you like to continue posting this in the General Discussion forum, or would you like to post it in the "Patch" forum, where it will receive more relevant views?" with two buttons so the user can pick.

Better idea: "I've noticed you seem to be posting about the new patch. Use the search button and see the countless threads." That would be sweet. Not very much related to your post though.

I wouldn't like more sub forums. I prefer all the general stuff being together, not too much mucking around and selecting different links, just a nice random list of thread titles I can scroll through and select ones ofn interest.

Repeating thread titles/questions are just a symptom of the poor search function. Now i'm not saying this could or should or can be improved, I just think its poor.

If I click on a thread and i'm not into it I just go to another one. If its a question that I know has been asked before and I also know the answer and if i'm in the mood I answer it.

As for the LLM forum, not a fan. Okay they have 'rules' but they also claim the term Lower League Manager. I went there when I was new the forums (not to the game though) and got very annoyed. But it doesn't really bother me, I just leave it alone 364 days a year.

Anyway thats what I think. Bye.

Subforums would be terrible. You can't even get to the first real discussion thread (i.e. non-sticky thread) on the very first page unless you have a huge monitor at a high resolution - that is terrible web design. If anything, I would get rid of most of the stickies, chop the banner in half and scrap the notice (USERS WITH TECHNICAL ISSUES PLEASE READ THIS TOPIC FIRST) altogether and put any important information in the halved-banner. We need less information, not more...

Subforums would be terrible. You can't even get to the first real discussion thread (i.e. non-sticky thread) on the very first page unless you have a huge monitor at a high resolution - that is terrible web design. If anything, I would get rid of most of the stickies, chop the banner in half and scrap the notice (USERS WITH TECHNICAL ISSUES PLEASE READ THIS TOPIC FIRST) altogether and put any important information in the halved-banner. We need less information, not more...

Kind of agree with this post.

Plus: Dividing the general forum would mean that fewer people would read the threads. And thus it would be more unlikely you will getl a reply.. this is already sometimes a problem in the Skinning Hideout Forum.

dont turn this into a game complaint thread please, we have some good discussion going on here.

I dont think its a case of splitting GD up too much. Its more a case of making a patch sub-forum where all the patch questions can go. If all the patch questions could go in one place, and the 'is this laptop good enough' threads were moved all into one place then GD would fine 99.9% of the time.

I think the Football Manager Forum page containing a list of all the sub-forums needs a reshuffle so all the most common forums are at the top.

General Discussion

Patch Info (create it)

Bugs Forum

Data Issues

Editors Hideout

GP & TG

T & TT

Skinning Forum

LLM

Challenges and Signups

Then everything else below.

Can't help it mate, I mean seriously, make your 3 subs and see how many times you end the game with 9 or fewer players due to convenient injuries or red cards.

it never happens to me, but as i say take it to another thread, thats not what this one was started for.