Very reluctant Accusation about the game fixing Match results.

Hello SI. Long time player of the original CM / FM series.

Now playing as Blackpool under the 10.2 patch.

Everything was going fine, really enjoying the game until the following events occurred.

Was 11th in table with a HOME game against regional rivals Preston.

The Match odds favoured us, though my assistant manager thought Preston might edge it despite their poor run of away results and the fact they 20th in the table (game being played in late October).

Set-up team and played the game. Am 3-1 up after 84 minutes, joy. However FM2010 had other ideas up its sleeve. Final score 3-5 (Preston scoring 4 goals in the last 6 minutes and 3 minutes of stoppage time). Now in all my time playing CM/FM I've never quit and restplayed a game, but this time I was tempted and fell to the temptation.

So I quit FM without saving and replayed the game. Another loss.

Tried again - different players and tactics, a loss.

And again. And again. And again.

I admit to having become obsessed now,as I've now replayed this match 30 (yes THIRTY) times. Its not about getting the win now, its the grim fascination with the fact that whatever players I use, whatever tactics I employ FM2001 will NOT let me get a victory.

Remember, this is me playing at HOME against a team 9 places lower than me in the league.

In the 30 times I've replayed this I've had 9 draws and 21 losses. In 4 of the 9 draws I was 1 or 2 goals ahead going into the last 5 or 6 minutes of normal time, in each of these cases the Preston team equalised with the very last play of the ball (often from corners, despite me setting my team up to have 10 men back for corners).

This CANNOT be correct. In real life I would expect at least one win in 30 attempts, I'm not a bad manager, and have beaten some of the 'big names' in the Chapionship already....

I've tried attacking play, defensive play, I've tried using the players suggested by my Assistant Manager, I've tried no teamtalks and all permutations of team talks. I've tried everything, to no avail.

I an now really concerned that FM2010 is not what it pupports to be and that the it has pre-decided I will not win the game.

If this is true then I can no longer play the FM game as there is no point if whatever players and tactics I employ are in effect meaningless.

Please tell me I am wrong SI.

In the meantime I am going to continue to replay this match. I've set myself a limit of 150 attempts for the sake of my sanity....

Please... no posts saying 'you must be a crap manager' etc....

The game doesn't fix results, perhaps your last sentance is too close to the truth?

But in all seriousness, what would SI have to gain in cheating the user?

Hello SI. Long time player of the original CM / FM series.

Now playing as Blackpool under the 10.2 patch.

Everything was going fine, really enjoying the game until the following events occurred.

Was 11th in table with a HOME game against regional rivals Preston.

The Match odds favoured us, though my assistant manager thought Preston might edge it despite their poor run of away results and the fact they 20th in the table (game being played in late October).

Set-up team and played the game. Am 3-1 up after 84 minutes, joy. However FM2010 had other ideas up its sleeve. Final score 3-5 (Preston scoring 4 goals in the last 6 minutes and 3 minutes of stoppage time). Now in all my time playing CM/FM I've never quit and restplayed a game, but this time I was tempted and fell to the temptation.

So I quit FM without saving and replayed the game. Another loss.

Tried again - different players and tactics, a loss.

And again. And again. And again.

I admit to having become obsessed now,as I've now replayed this match 30 (yes THIRTY) times. Its not about getting the win now, its the grim fascination with the fact that whatever players I use, whatever tactics I employ FM2001 will NOT let me get a victory.

Remember, this is me playing at HOME against a team 9 places lower than me in the league.

In the 30 times I've replayed this I've had 9 draws and 21 losses. In 4 of the 9 draws I was 1 or 2 goals ahead going into the last 5 or 6 minutes of normal time, in each of these cases the Preston team equalised with the very last play of the ball (often from corners, despite me setting my team up to have 10 men back for corners).

This CANNOT be correct. In real life I would expect at least one win in 30 attempts, I'm not a bad manager, and have beaten some of the 'big names' in the Chapionship already....

I've tried attacking play, defensive play, I've tried using the players suggested by my Assistant Manager, I've tried no teamtalks and all permutations of team talks. I've tried everything, to no avail.

I an now really concerned that FM2010 is not what it pupports to be and that the it has pre-decided I will not win the game.

If this is true then I can no longer play the FM game as there is no point if whatever players and tactics I employ are in effect meaningless.

Please tell me I am wrong SI.

In the meantime I am going to continue to replay this match. I've set myself a limit of 150 attempts for the sake of my sanity....

Please... no posts saying 'you must be a crap manager' etc....

Try editing your players with FMRTE, set all to 'world class' and fitness to 100%. If you still can't win then your suspicions will be correct. Otherwise, it is because "you must be a crap manager".

Hello SI. Long time player of the original CM / FM series.

Now playing as Blackpool under the 10.2 patch.

Everything was going fine, really enjoying the game until the following events occurred.

Was 11th in table with a HOME game against regional rivals Preston.

The Match odds favoured us, though my assistant manager thought Preston might edge it despite their poor run of away results and the fact they 20th in the table (game being played in late October).

Set-up team and played the game. Am 3-1 up after 84 minutes, joy. However FM2010 had other ideas up its sleeve. Final score 3-5 (Preston scoring 4 goals in the last 6 minutes and 3 minutes of stoppage time). Now in all my time playing CM/FM I've never quit and restplayed a game, but this time I was tempted and fell to the temptation.

So I quit FM without saving and replayed the game. Another loss.

Tried again - different players and tactics, a loss.

And again. And again. And again.

I admit to having become obsessed now,as I've now replayed this match 30 (yes THIRTY) times. Its not about getting the win now, its the grim fascination with the fact that whatever players I use, whatever tactics I employ FM2001 will NOT let me get a victory.

Remember, this is me playing at HOME against a team 9 places lower than me in the league.

In the 30 times I've replayed this I've had 9 draws and 21 losses. In 4 of the 9 draws I was 1 or 2 goals ahead going into the last 5 or 6 minutes of normal time, in each of these cases the Preston team equalised with the very last play of the ball (often from corners, despite me setting my team up to have 10 men back for corners).

This CANNOT be correct. In real life I would expect at least one win in 30 attempts, I'm not a bad manager, and have beaten some of the 'big names' in the Chapionship already....

I've tried attacking play, defensive play, I've tried using the players suggested by my Assistant Manager, I've tried no teamtalks and all permutations of team talks. I've tried everything, to no avail.

I an now really concerned that FM2010 is not what it pupports to be and that the it has pre-decided I will not win the game.

If this is true then I can no longer play the FM game as there is no point if whatever players and tactics I employ are in effect meaningless.

Please tell me I am wrong SI.

In the meantime I am going to continue to replay this match. I've set myself a limit of 150 attempts for the sake of my sanity....

Please... no posts saying 'you must be a crap manager' etc....

I have to say I kind of agree with this. I also get the impression that the game goes through spells where it simply does not want you to win, and will do whatever it takes to ensure that happens. The rules of normal physics and football go out of the window; absurd goals fly in, your players get sent off, penalties given against you every other game etc. Very frustrating, and I'm sorry to say this but I think this is the worst CM/FM ever.

But if you got some draws... the result clearly isn't fixed?!

I understand what you're saying. I started a save, found a result that seemed a bit odd, and kept re-doing it, under different circumstances. A lot of the times, it was similar, with me losing. But then there were times when I would perform a miraculous comeback, or hit 3 goals in the first 10 minutes, or have it end 0-0, etc. Changing the formation and players made things vastly different. So it doesn't "fix" the results. But remember that you could be losing because of something else, such as something that you said wrong in a press conference, or even players that dislike each other.

Thanks for your considered comments.

I dont want to accuse SI of anything and I've been playing this game for years thankyou.

However, the illusion that the manager can make a difference is shattered if there no Win in 30 tries.

I wouldnt mind so much it way to Man United.

But its a Home, to a team 9 places below me (so yes I must be fairly ok to have got to 11th).

My teams motivation is good as is their morale.

I'm genuinely concerned, that is all, and would like a reply from SI.

I have no axe to grind, I love FM. Its just I cant carry on playing it if the illusion that I as manager can make a difference to the outcome of a match is shattered is all.

But in all seriousness, what would SI have to gain in cheating the user?

This. It's a point that somehow always gets lost in the "FM is cheating me" conspiracy rants; they deal with the 'how' rather than the 'why'. I've yet to come across one half-credible theory as to why a profit-seeking entity would deliberately try to alienate its core fanbase by continually cheating it out of results.

I have to say I kind of agree with this. I also get the impression that the game goes through spells where it simply does not want you to win, and will do whatever it takes to ensure that happens. The rules of normal physics and football go out of the window; absurd goals fly in, your players get sent off, penalties given against you every other game etc. Very frustrating, and I'm sorry to say this but I think this is the worst CM/FM ever.

Oh come on. In every previous version of FM, there have always been those spells where you just can't win.

I reckon last years fixed results, but this year seems fine.

Could be moral of players or anything. Maybe There team is so well suited with tactics and players at beating your team in that very game that 9 times out of 10 they will.

I would be more concered if you played them over and over and you got loads of completly random results because that would mean its all just luck and nothing to do with your players.

Lots of games do have cheating AI. Its an easy way of making games more challenging.

There is no illusion. Tactical changes you make during the match can lose you a match you're winning comfortably or win you one with a comeback. Even just keeping the same tactics and maybe just one vital sub can provide a spark.

Maybe your players aren't motivated before the game so no matter what you do you won't get a result because of how they're feeling. Sometimes I feel like it's fixed to but I keep on going back and I've won games when the AI team has been on top so I let a few 'weird' results go over my head

We've been here before, but if you upload your saved game file, I guarantee you'll have a handful of people who'll gladly download it and post some proof of them winning the game.

Go on holiday for one day and see if you win

Hi. Yes I did get some draws but I'm saying the result seems to be fixed that I cant get a WIN.

I tried playing on after one of the defeats and won the next game no problem.

I'm not sure about ther press-conference to be fair, I thought I'd hit all the neutral replies but maybe thats a factor as its a derby game? Still seems odd.

And Ive tried 10 different formations now and different permutations of attacking down to defensive mentality.

Anyway, thaks for a constructive reply.

Anyway Im going to try another 120 times.

If theres no win in 150 games then thats a little odd to me.

By the way, I no longer care about the 3 points, I've written this season off as a 'rebuilding one' its more about seeing if I can win this game. I'm now obessed !!

Hi. Yes I did get some draws but I'm saying the result seems to be fixed that I cant get a WIN.

I tried playing on after one of the defeats and won the next game no problem.

I'm not sure about ther press-conference to be fair, I thought I'd hit all the neutral replies but maybe thats a factor as its a derby game? Still seems odd.

And Ive tried 10 different formations now and different permutations of attacking down to defensive mentality.

Anyway, thaks for a constructive reply.

What are the circumstances? End of season and they are battling relegation? Your team nowhere near playoffs or relegation?Away to their rivals? They seem to have a lot of motivation if my suppositions are correct. Maybe thats it?

it could just be that going into the game your players have had a certain run of form and have a certain level of morale and preston have a certain form and certain morale and when you look at all of the variables at play going into the match, it just might be that the chances of you winning are extremely slim, somewhere around 1%.

im assuming that your are only replaying one day and one game over and over so its not impossible that all of the key variables are already set and thats why your chance of winning is very small.

if you were to play the last gameweek over, every team would get different results and i think you might have a better chance

I would actually be interested in giving it a go. Can you upload your save game? Am not suggesting that I would win easily, but it sounds like a challenge.

Yeah, upload your game. I'm sure a lot of people see it as a good challenge.

You can further prove / disprove your theory this way.

it could just be that going into the game your players have had a certain run of form and have a certain level of morale and preston have a certain form and certain morale and when you look at all of the variables at play going into the match, it just might be that the chances of you winning are extremely slim, somewhere around 1%.

Sorry, but this doesnt make sense. I understand what you are saying, that some variables might be going against him before this match. But still there are player selection, pre match tactics, in game tactical decisons, substitions, opposition instructions, team talks and what not. Plenty of variables to change the outcome I think. If not, then something is very wrong here.

Different formations won't help as your team will have no experience of them & we know it takes time for a formation to settle.

Aside from all that though I guessing your save game is the day before the match which also doesn't aide you - What did you say at the end of your last match? What has been happening during the 2-3 weeks prior to the match?

Different formations won't help as your team will have no experience of them & we know it takes time for a formation to settle.

They can. I changed my formation from a 4-4-2 with 2 supportive midfielders to a 4-4-2 diamond with a defensive and attacking mid, as well as attacking fullbacks, which is pretty drastic, and my goals per game instantly went up. And stayed there. I changed the fullbacks to support, and my goals conceded dropped a whole bunch.

I would actually be interested in giving it a go. Can you upload your save game? Am not suggesting that I would win easily, but it sounds like a challenge.

This.

I've tried no team talks and every possible permutation. Ive tried individual player team talks, I've tried getting my assistant to do the team talk.

Some good ideas here, I will try and upload the save when I get home.

but this happens in real-life though

take west ham as an example, 17th in the league and were a better team than arsenal for 75 minutes

a LOT of people would have expected an easy Arsenal win, but west hame were up for it and arsenal would have been cocky

maybe your players are overconfident and preston's were really up for the game

The thing is though, Prestons morale is Okay to Poor for most of their players due to their poor run of results. My are Superb to Okay.

During the game 3 of 4 of my players are 'motivated' and 2 or 3 of Preston's are.

It's hard to deny sometimes your team seem UNABLE to win, no matter what you do.

And I've never bought into the whole "it's your tactic" thing.

As we've said several times already, under some circumstances (poor fitness, low morale, injury crisis, overconfidence, complacency...) a particular game, regardless of the absolute value of the opponents, can be tricky.

Still, a record of 0-9-21, against an equal-weaker opponent, is terrible, probably impossible to "achieve" even for the worst manager on the planet. [assuming the OP hasn't provided inflated figures]

Regardless of how bad your tactic is, and I still wonder what can be SO wrong with a rather standard tactic, at least a lucky win shouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility. Especially if we're speaking of facing Preston, not Barcelona.

P.S. the purpose of the game "cheating" is to keep some balance between the human manager and the AI. Clearly the AI can't be as "smart" as the human player, so the quick fix to the problem is to give a small boost to the AI when needed

These are indeed my results 0-9-21.

For the next 120 games (or however long it takes to get a win) I will log : Formation, Team-Talk, times goals scored etc.

Could it be that being a game against a bitter rival Preston's players are just more up for the game and want to get a run of wins started.

No sarcasm here, but maybe we should start a challenge thread where users who can't win in infinite tries upload their games as a challenge. Of course it will not be the 'BSP vs EPL team' kind, but those you were 'expected' to win.

Thanks for the reply Ov.

I believe you and retract my reluctant accusation.

Still, I'm obsessed with this now. Am off work for the next three days and confined to my home. It's sad but I'm gonna do it.

Almondo - The Preston players arent expecially motivated in the Game Engine screen....

I will upload the game when I get home. No doubt someone will win with it straight away !

No sarcasm here, but maybe we should start a challenge thread where users who can't win in infinite tries upload their games as a challenge. Of course it will not be the 'BSP vs EPL team' kind, but those you were 'expected' to win.

That would be a great idea.

I don't get why you can't just accept you lost a game in the first place? :S

I think the OP has already unwittingly given a clue to the reasons for his complaint.

By saving as you are about to enter the match and then continually restarting from that point there are a number of fundamentals that you aren't changing, e.g. importance of the match, complacency in certain players at that point, motivation of the opposition and all those and more for each individual in each team.

Theoretically if you restarted from an earlier point all those factors would change and in this particular match the outcome could be very different.

Unfortunately so would all your other matches so you could end up worse off overall:D

As a LLaMA I have to admit this is all theoretical because I've never restarted a save game in my life:cool:

Its not about the loss now, Its about trying to work out why I cant win in 30 games.

If what you say is true Kriss, then isnt that an indicator that the factors you name are WAY too important to the Match Engine ?? 30 games and NO wins remember.

If what you say is true Kriss, then isnt that an indicator that the factors you name are WAY too important to the Match Engine ?? 30 games and NO wins remember.

Personally I think morale certainly is, but then I suppose if you recognise morale as the problem soon enough you can take the steps to turn form around.

A big part of the problem is that 30 reruns of the same match don't actually happen in reality, so there's no data on which to base the distribution of results from them.

But as I said earlier, the morale of my squad is Suberb->Okay, that of Prestons is much worse.

Plus when I tried to play on, I won the next game quite easily (Away to a Team higher placed than Preston).

Could we have the save game from the OP then please? I for one would love to have a go at winning this game..

And regardig the 30 reruns not happening in real life. Obviously no, but bookmakers odds are based on hypothetical reruns. If a bookie offers 2-1 on a victory then they are saying that they think a team will win about 1 in 4 times (as they build a margin in).

I'm the bookies favourite in the game (cant recall exact odds), I'm not over 30-1 against !

By the way, I no longer care about the 3 points, I've written this season off as a 'rebuilding one' its more about seeing if I can win this game. I'm now obessed !!

It isn't fixed.

Did you do your press conference before you saved the game?

I did the press conference beofre saving the game yeah. Was neutral, treat game no different to any other....

...if saying that makes it impossible for me to win the game then SI please take out press conferences.

It could have something to do with the hidden attributes of your players. As it's a big rivals match your players important matches and pressure stats could be lower. This coupled with being saddled with the 'bookmakers favourite' tag could cause some players to wilt under the pressure. The fact you won your next game away to a better team may suggest your players play better when they're underdogs.

Maybe they have lots of home grown lads and your team is full of foreigners? It might mean more to them.

It does feel like this sometimes, i think that there is some kind of random calculation in the background which means the odds get stacked against you on occasions.

if you try not changing anything about your team, e.g leave tactics and squad selection alone and avoid opposition instructions, i would expect that it wouldnt take 30 replays to get a win.

you changed things each time in my understanding - this means that the match engine calculation was not the same for your 30 replays.