Tactical Series - Juego de Posicion (FM20/FM21)

[ericstpeter]

1 hour ago, Flußkrebs said:

A quick update on where my York squad have got so far this season using these JdP principles- we're sitting 6th in the table for context

Some brilliant results although a little blunt in attack, including a 12 match all comps undefeated run. That 424 wide you see against premier league West brom is what I've been using when I've been experimenting with a little, just off setting the striker to help with defence splitting passes on the counter

Using Regroup, and standard tempo and passing and offsetting the striker has, to the eye and stats test, been very successful against the big teams, especially when defending a lead. Maybe not that latest result though...

6 (!) clear cut chances and 15 shots on target, vs their 2 and 10. And that's with a 33 year old Harry Maguire in their backline, against my team of only Yorkshire born or raised (I'm  doing an Atletico Bilbao style save) players, with an average starting 11 age of just 21. 

Completely dominant in the air, the RPM and AP(A) and IW making some brilliant passes, but most of all... 10 shots on target out of 10 from my off set centre forward. 10! And not a single goal  Their keeper got a 7.8! For context, so far this season Son Heung-Min has 10 shots on target TOTAL. So yes, finishing and some incredible keeping clearly let us down, but the underlying numbers would seem to suggest that this counter attacking tweak to the principal formation is working how it's meant to. 

Tactically, the idea behind off-setting the centre forward was to achieve two things that either reinforce our JdP principles or strengthen us against teams looking to dominate us:

1) Either their defence gets dragged across to their left to combat the increased overload of the AF, AP, IW, RPM and FB all operating in that area, which leaves even more space for the RMD to run into

2) Or, they don't shift over to combat the overload, which nearly forces the AF to sit in the channel between the LB and LCB, giving him greater ability to run into space on the counter, or letting him help out the IW and RPM overload on the right.

I have been struggling after my opening few games to get goals from any one playing in that centre forward spot- I appreciate that part of his role is to force back their defence to create space for the players behind him (which works) but we have also needed goals. Some quick maths tells me that as the Centre Forward (off set or not) before this latest West Brom game he was averaging 1.79 shots on target/90 (which IRL is pretty phenomenal btw, but FM numbers don't match real ones at all from my experience- for context in the prem this season only 5 players are averaging higher than that). And in that one game, he had 10! So if he had his finishing boots on the plan should have worked I wonder what his xG would have been....

Our key team stats in the Championship after 15 games:

Chances Created/90: 1st - 3.7  

Possession: 1st- 57%  

Goals/90: 9th- 1.5 

Shots on Target/90: 10th- 7.4  

Conversion rate: 9th- 10%  

Pass completion: 5th- 87%  

Goals Against/90: 5th- 0.93  

Tackles won/90: 15th- 23.1  

Tackles won %: 1st- 92%  

Headers won %: 2nd- 65%  

So the lads are defending brilliantly, although not particularly actively, we're playing some brilliant football in the way we want- keeping possession, crisp and accurate passing, but also creating some brilliant chances, not just possession for the sake of it. All good. But our shot volume and conversion are both lower than I'd like, so goals naturally are also low. I'd be happy if we were low volume but clinical, or high volume but wasteful, but instead were just bang average at both. Something to work on for sure. 

In the league we've scored 7 goals from crosses, 5 from through balls, and 4 from set pieces, plus some others. We score 60% of our goals from the central penalty area, plus a further 23% from the 6 yard box, and only 9% from range. 

However, we've also conceded 4 goals from through balls (sometimes easily cut open and vulnerable in the Defensive Midfield zone) and 22% of goals against us have been from outside the box! This again seems to be an issue with leaving too much space outside the area, either for a long range shot or for a nice through ball. 

Finally, something I am happy with, is that we've converted 75% of our CCCs, but our opposition has only converted 50%. Plus we've restricted them to just 10 in 15 games, whilst we've created 25. So chance creation and (CCC) conversion is good, offensively and defensively. It seems to me that our issues are when it comes to non CCCs- we have a very low level of shot and shot conversion so we're creating little end product unless it's a 'proper' chance. 

Have a good weekend all! 

 

Great thread! I’d love to see what PI’s you use. (Sorry if I missed it)

[sherifdinn_]

On 05/11/2020 at 20:32, 04texag said:

We have our last qualifying game, and as Spain has already qualified, we have a lot of our second teamers playing. I'm really wanting to solidify who my backups are before the tournament. And this happened, an absolute GEM of a team goal. I counted 22 passes, I think EVERY Player on the team touches the ball at least once, with full depth and width of the field used. 

If there was an FM representation of how to get this style of play to look and feel in the game, I think this highlight might be it. My only issue with it, is we are not getting much pressure from Lithuania, but they are sitting deep/defensive and we methodically break them down.

 

Enjoy

 

This was very nice. Questions:

What were the roles of the midfield 3?

Wat mentality and passing?

[04texag]

5 minutes ago, sherifdinn_ said:

This was very nice. Questions:

What were the roles of the midfield 3?

Wat mentality and passing?

It's essentially the most recent tactic posted in here but with a few adjustments. Soon I'll be posting my final version of this tactic for FM20.

 

Positive mentality and shorter passing.

[sherifdinn_]

On 04/11/2020 at 19:44, Flußkrebs said:

You spoke about footedness on the wingers in the tactic (preference for inverted on both) and I think I agree. But what about the RPM and CMd? The sheer amount of position I've had I think it's really important to think about the passing angles that different footers opens up.

This is a heavily underated topic in recruitment and tactics performance and it's something that I took time to study back in FM18. A left footie and right footie behave differently when with the ball in similar conditions.

Take for example: you're playing a strike partnership (say DLf-su, AF) and suddenly you're on the counter and the ball lands on the feet of your right footed AF on the right flank. He will attempt to run wider with the ball towards the byline to give a cross whereas, a left footed player will cut in, and, drive towards goal. Similar movements happen with wingers and Central midfielders.

[sherifdinn_]

17 minutes ago, 04texag said:

It's essentially the most recent tactic posted in here but with a few adjustments. Soon I'll be posting my final version of this tactic for FM20.

 

Positive mentality and shorter passing.

Nice! Could recognise shades of the original tactic.

[Flußkrebs]

2 hours ago, ericstpeter said:

Great thread! I’d love to see what PI’s you use. (Sorry if I missed it)

It's mostly just the PIs that @04texag had been using on the last tactic he posted- I think I have the APa on get further forward, CMd on dribble less (and sometimes stay wider), more dribbling and closing down for the BPD, hold position, close down less and mark tighter for the CDc. And I've been playing around a little but generally stay wider for the WB and sit narrower for the FB (sometimes cut inside, sometimes play with the crossing as well).

But don't necessarily take that tactic I posted as gospel- it's just a slightly adapted version of the one already on this thread, adapted for the league/team I'm playing with at the minute. So maybe just go with the original tactic as a jumping off point if you want to try something like this. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I understand it the key things behind the tactic which can't really be compromised are the midfield three (roles in a non-FM sense at least), with one as an attacking second striker/passer, one as the RPM and one as a sitter, all playing quite closely. Then you have one drifting passer and one running scorer on the flanks, to take advantage of the overload. A striker to stretch the play up top, one fullback to support the RPM space and cover, and one full back to get forward a bit more to cover the space left by the running scoring wide forward. Obviously the roles/duties could be different, I'm sure @04texag's latest version will have some differences. For example you could play around with an IF-a instead of a RMD, an IWB instead of the FB, a PFa/AF/Poacher up top, a Car instead of a CMd. It's the relationship between the roles that is important. 

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Flußkrebs

[04texag]

34 minutes ago, Flußkrebs said:

It's mostly just the PIs that @04texag had been using on the last tactic he posted- I think I have the APa on get further forward, CMd on dribble less (and sometimes stay wider), more dribbling and closing down for the BPD, hold position, close down less and mark tighter for the CDc. And I've been playing around a little but generally stay wider for the WB and sit narrower for the FB (sometimes cut inside, sometimes play with the crossing as well).

But don't necessarily take that tactic I posted as gospel- it's just a slightly adapted version of the one already on this thread, adapted for the league/team I'm playing with at the minute. So maybe just go with the original tactic as a jumping off point if you want to try something like this. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I understand it the key things behind the tactic which can't really be compromised are the midfield three (roles in a non-FM sense at least), with one as an attacking second striker/passer, one as the RPM and one as a sitter, all playing quite closely. Then you have one drifting passer and one running scorer on the flanks, to take advantage of the overload. A striker to stretch the play up top, one fullback to support the RPM space and cover, and one full back to get forward a bit more to cover the space left by the running scoring wide forward. Obviously the roles/duties could be different, I'm sure @04texag's latest version will have some differences. For example you could play around with an IF-a instead of a RMD, an IWB instead of the FB, a PFa/AF/Poacher up top, a Car instead of a CMd. It's the relationship between the roles that is important. 

 

Very well stated and summarized!

[04texag]

Given that I'm guessing the FM21 beta drops either tomorrow or Tuesday, I'm rolling out my final update for the positional play system for FM20, my interpretation of Juego de Posicion. I was hoping to make it through the rest of this season and the world cup, but we are running out of time.

First up, my new backup striker has forced me to make some small situational changes. I had been looking for a back up to my main striker, as he sometimes has an off day or is tired, and I really didn't have anyone else worthy of the role. My scouts found a spanish striker that looked promising, although different from what I would normally search up for as an AF-A. I sent my head scout to watch him for 2 more matches, and came back with a 100 scouting report, and a sign whatever the cost. Although, I was shockingly able to get him for around 35m. Below are my two strikers now, starting with the original starter, my AF-A, Jean Paulo. The brazilian is having a fantastic campaign through January, with 22 goals and 3 assists through all competitions. Unfortunately, mentoring and trait training hasn't produced any results, but he's still playing well.

 

And now, for comparison, the new striker who is rated by my staff ahead of him. Nestor De La Cal, the spanish tower, as I have started calling him. He's got 5 goals in his first 4 games with Valencia. His finishing is low, but look at that jumping reach, height and heading ability. 

Although we lost away to real madrid 2-3, our form recently has been good, with an average of 2.7 goals a game. I'm happy with that. We did beat Real madrid two weeks before the loss to win the spanish super cup, which of course is not rated as an important trophy, but I'm pleased with silverware regardless.

So, with the above new striker, we situationally change the upfront role. When the spanish tower plays, I change his role to CF-A. I want him to be a focus for crosses, laying them off or putting them in the back of the net. He also has solid all around mentals and physicals, and decent passing and dribbling. So I'm happy with him being generally involved.

Another big thing I've been doing the last three games, is playing BOTH of these guys. I've been starting Paulo up top as an AF-A, with Nestor playing at AMR in the below tactic. Several times a game, depending on what I'm seeing, I'll switch their positions one for one, but nestor has the personalized CF-A role. Both are adept at playing on the right wing, and both are currently more of a threat (which creates marking challenges) then my youngsters who still need development there.

Some of the additional tactical changes also focus on that right flank. I have the AMR as an IW-S, with sits narrower and roams from position. The WB is now on support, as I want overlapping runs beyond the narrow AMR. With underlaps on, this creates some beautiful wing play. The WB marauds forwards and will receive a long pass from one of the central mids or the BPD-S, he drives down towards the corner, and the AMR will park him self right at the corner mark of the box. If the cross isn't on, the WB plays a nice ball back to the waiting AMR, and he either crosses it in, or dribbles. I have scored multiple goals with this approach play the past month of this season.

Additionally, the right CM is now on support duty, with dribble less and hold position. He will MOST of the time play the same as the previous versions CM-d, however, occasionally, as in the above wing play example, the AMR might be marked or too far forward, and the CM-S will arrive late into the box, receive the pass from the WB and he's usually wide open for a long shot or uncontested cross. 

I have so many wonderful highlights down the right flank from the last three matches, but not sure how many of you are actually watching these videos.

So finally, here is the final version of the tactic.

 

[04texag]

Here are PI's.

[Raymond85]

Il 29/10/2020 in 19:36 , 04texag ha scritto:

On another thread there is a nice Pep tactical discussion, and I don't want to hijack their thread more than I already have. That said, Pep is the most famous and successful proponent of Positional Play, or Juego de Posicion. The main differences between what I've been doing are between utilizing a 433 team shape (PEP) and a 4231 shape (Juanma Lillo). I've been doing the 4231, so that I can get better pressing, more players in attack easier, and also still maintaining a holding player in the circle, similar to Pep in a 433.

Fun thing to note, City this year are using a 4231 much more, with Rodri and Gundogan as holding midfielders. Why might you ask? Because Pep has hired his mentor as his new assistant coach, none other than Juanma Lillo.

Pep's 433

Pep naturally tried to get overloads from his players. One thing you'll note about watching city, is that they very regularly switch which side of the field they are overloading in any given game. Sometimes they will overload the left vertical channel, as I mentioned in my post above. But sometimes, walker will play more like an overlapping WB and they will try to overload the wide right flank. They vary tactically like this throughout a match to cause confusion for the defense, all with the goal of breaking down the defense's shape and thus create a free man, or the third man as discussed just above.

Pep's sides typically attack into a 1-2-3-5 shape. The 3 is usually comprised of one holding midfielder and the two advancing full backs. The CM's push forward and the 5 up top will roam around a lot during the course of the game. Some of this is hard to replicate tactically without manually impacting some of it during a game through position swapping. That said, we can statically account for some of it with the tactic. Below is the base tactic, then I'll show key PI's. I've posted elsewhere a passing tree and average positions if you're interested in that sort of thing. 

I'm not 100% on the role for Aguero, I would play with False 9, CF-S and CF-A up top. Pep likes the striker to drop deep, but his City incarnations have the striker pass the ball off and help build up the approach play, which is different from when Messi played as a false 9 and would dribble much more. Thus, I'd try the CF roles. 

Just to give you some input on this version of your tactics, i really liked the reasoning on everything behind this iteration of the tactic and gave it a spin on an Ajax new save, as i know the squad really well and thought they could get away with this kind of football.

Only change i had was going for the false 9 up front, having an incredible one in Tadic. Don't mind the players, i obviously made some sales in the summer, as i wanted to give a youth only save a spin. I had Veltman for Pierie in defence and Ziyiech for Gravenberch, and lastly Neres was in the Kuhn spot top right. And narrow defending as i noticed it made me a little more solid, but not sure if it really was a decisive factor

 

Here are the results:

 

Stormed the league with no bother (but that's the easy part)

 

Champions League is where we really did amazing things, and the tactic proved incredibly solid, still showing amazing proactive passing football going forward. We just were unlucky against psg in the semis, and i think we would have truly deserved that extra goal at home which would have lead us into the final.

 

If you are interested in some stats or other things, give me a shout

Edited November 8, 2020 by Raymond85

[04texag]

2 minutes ago, Raymond85 said:

Stormed the league with no bother (but that's the easy part)

Well done! Looks like a great season.

71 goals with only 11 against, is pretty dang stellar! Attacking well but not giving up much and staying stable on defense. Where were most of your goals coming from? Type and position?

 

 

[Raymond85]

9 minuti fa, 04texag ha scritto:

Well done! Looks like a great season.

71 goals with only 11 against, is pretty dang stellar! Attacking well but not giving up much and staying stable on defense. Where were most of your goals coming from? Type and position?

 

 

 

This is quite a nice picture of what was happening

most of the goals came from patient possesion and exchanges between midfield and wings, and the free player slotting it into the goal from close range. Quite a fair amount of set piece goals i have to admit

 

Tadic really got the spotlight as a false 9 with 19 goals, i think his movement was really crucial

Promise 13

Neres 17

the rest were quite evenly distributed in the whole squad. The thing i loved about it was not being dependant on anyone, and seeing the team really play as an organic unit, always picking out a free pass. With some brilliant goals along the way

Edited November 8, 2020 by Raymond85

[Raymond85]

Sorry, wrong screen there, fixed

Edited November 8, 2020 by Raymond85

[04texag]

5 minutes ago, Raymond85 said:

The thing i loved about it was not being dependant on anyone, and seeing the team really play as an organic unit, always picking out a free pass. With some brilliant goals along the way

I think this sums up exactly what this style of play and tactic is going for. I think both expressions, the 4231 and 433 are capable of pulling this off nicely. 

The number of placed shots is really nice. What about your assist types?

[Raymond85]

1 minuto fa, 04texag ha scritto:

I think this sums up exactly what this style of play and tactic is going for. I think both expressions, the 4231 and 433 are capable of pulling this off nicely. 

The number of placed shots is really nice. What about your assist types?

 

It's mostly crosses, and i think the game also counts cutbacks and horizontal passes to the striker as those.

A very nice amount of through balls, i think 1 every 2 games is the highest i've ever seen. The RPM really shines in this, and also Blind as DLP was really central in creating chances. He didn't just stick back.

Quite a lot of free kicks and corner kicks too, but that is normal when you have good aerial ability in the team, and also a consequence of the pressure you put on the other team

[04texag]

I love seeing high through ball assists! Well done. Glad the RPM is working as he should.

 

[Zemahh]

1 hour ago, 04texag said:

Given that I'm guessing the FM21 beta drops either tomorrow or Tuesday, I'm rolling out my final update for the positional play system for FM20, my interpretation of Juego de Posicion.

Thoroughly enjoyed this thread, hope you keep writing for FM21! 

34 minutes ago, Raymond85 said:

https://i.gyazo.com/1b3c4e447bf43369626314827fd77a3a.png

Christ, that Liverpool - Juve tie must have been a stormer. 

[04texag]

Just now, Zemahh said:

Thoroughly enjoyed this thread, hope you keep writing for FM21! 

Thanks, I appreciate that. I'm planning on carrying this tactic into FM21, and very interested to see how the new ME AI actually operates. If they truly have improved central play like they say, it could be really great for building on this tactic. 

[Raymond85]

12 minuti fa, Zemahh ha scritto:

Christ, that Liverpool - Juve tie must have been a stormer. 

It was.... 4-1 liverpool at home, and 4-3 in Turin to seal the deal for the final. They didn't have it so hard in the end.

It was quite an entertaining year in champion's league to be fair

[Flußkrebs]

22 hours ago, 04texag said:

Given that I'm guessing the FM21 beta drops either tomorrow or Tuesday, I'm rolling out my final update for the positional play system for FM20, my interpretation of Juego de Posicion. I was hoping to make it through the rest of this season and the world cup, but we are running out of time.

First up, my new backup striker has forced me to make some small situational changes. I had been looking for a back up to my main striker, as he sometimes has an off day or is tired, and I really didn't have anyone else worthy of the role. My scouts found a spanish striker that looked promising, although different from what I would normally search up for as an AF-A. I sent my head scout to watch him for 2 more matches, and came back with a 100 scouting report, and a sign whatever the cost. Although, I was shockingly able to get him for around 35m. Below are my two strikers now, starting with the original starter, my AF-A, Jean Paulo. The brazilian is having a fantastic campaign through January, with 22 goals and 3 assists through all competitions. Unfortunately, mentoring and trait training hasn't produced any results, but he's still playing well.

 

And now, for comparison, the new striker who is rated by my staff ahead of him. Nestor De La Cal, the spanish tower, as I have started calling him. He's got 5 goals in his first 4 games with Valencia. His finishing is low, but look at that jumping reach, height and heading ability. 

Although we lost away to real madrid 2-3, our form recently has been good, with an average of 2.7 goals a game. I'm happy with that. We did beat Real madrid two weeks before the loss to win the spanish super cup, which of course is not rated as an important trophy, but I'm pleased with silverware regardless.

So, with the above new striker, we situationally change the upfront role. When the spanish tower plays, I change his role to CF-A. I want him to be a focus for crosses, laying them off or putting them in the back of the net. He also has solid all around mentals and physicals, and decent passing and dribbling. So I'm happy with him being generally involved.

Another big thing I've been doing the last three games, is playing BOTH of these guys. I've been starting Paulo up top as an AF-A, with Nestor playing at AMR in the below tactic. Several times a game, depending on what I'm seeing, I'll switch their positions one for one, but nestor has the personalized CF-A role. Both are adept at playing on the right wing, and both are currently more of a threat (which creates marking challenges) then my youngsters who still need development there.

Some of the additional tactical changes also focus on that right flank. I have the AMR as an IW-S, with sits narrower and roams from position. The WB is now on support, as I want overlapping runs beyond the narrow AMR. With underlaps on, this creates some beautiful wing play. The WB marauds forwards and will receive a long pass from one of the central mids or the BPD-S, he drives down towards the corner, and the AMR will park him self right at the corner mark of the box. If the cross isn't on, the WB plays a nice ball back to the waiting AMR, and he either crosses it in, or dribbles. I have scored multiple goals with this approach play the past month of this season.

Additionally, the right CM is now on support duty, with dribble less and hold position. He will MOST of the time play the same as the previous versions CM-d, however, occasionally, as in the above wing play example, the AMR might be marked or too far forward, and the CM-S will arrive late into the box, receive the pass from the WB and he's usually wide open for a long shot or uncontested cross. 

I have so many wonderful highlights down the right flank from the last three matches, but not sure how many of you are actually watching these videos.

So finally, here is the final version of the tactic.

 

A good start to the new year using the flipped version of this tactic (and narrow defensive width, I end up shipping far too many goals via the centre playing on standard, and I have two aerially dominant centrebacks to fend off crosses).

No dishonour in losing to 7th in the premier league Southampton, we ran them very close (played a little more on the counter in the second half but shipped a last minute goal). 7 goals scored, 1 conceded and 2 clean sheets in 3 games, I am very happy with. Let's see if we can't beat that FM midseason slump!

You were damn right about the lovely interplay between the WBs and the IWs- I have them on the left in my version of the tactic, here's the Wing-back's form for those 4 games

And for context, in his previous 11 games he had 1 assist, 0 goals, and only 5 total key passes. In his last 4 games he's popped up with 2 goals, including a match winner, an assist, and 7 key passes! Night and day...

And whilst I've got your attention, this fellow, Owen, has been playing as my primary RPM this season- obviously a level below your players but I think he's pretty damn good for the Championship.

However, I've just signed Reid:

He's only just turned 18 and already looks like a bit of a player 

Thoughts on these two? I think I'll use Reid as a rotation option for both the RPM and AP slots, and then maybe sell my current AP at the end of the season (also young and on fire form-wise, but not as high a ceiling) and shift Reid to the AP slot. Then long term it will be Reid at RPM as I upgrade the squad.

[04texag]

Good results so far, and glad to see that wing play working for you. 

 

For Owen, I would have him training ball control, as his dribbling is low and the RPM slot is one I would want dribbling some. This will also help his low technique attribute. 

Reid looks promising. First glance I would train his attacking movement, and obv physicals. I wouldn't rush the current AP out if his form is strong. At 18, it's ok to keep Reid as a backup another full year especially if he can get backup time in both spots. 

They look good though!

[zlatanera]

This might have been handled earlier in the thread, but I'm just wondering about the logic of Hit Early Crosses in a tactic that otherwise is built around short passing and collective play? 

[04texag]

1 minute ago, zlatanera said:

This might have been handled earlier in the thread, but I'm just wondering about the logic of Hit Early Crosses in a tactic that otherwise is built around short passing and collective play? 

It's all about managing risk. I have found it difficult to manage the two extremes, playing short fast passes, and occasionally launching cross field switches, defense splitting through balls, etc. 

Initially, on cautious mentality, the team was playing way too safe. I used pass into space and hit early crosses to encourage the team to occasionally take some risks. Otherwise, we had way too many 1-0 wins. With using an AF-A, this worked well as the forward was sitting right on the back line, waiting for these type of balls to come, but the team never played them.

Then, I moved the tactic up to positive mentality. Once doing this, pass into space was too aggressive, the team would do this far too often, many time out kicking everyone and we would lose possession. I tried with the hit early crosses on and off, and found that goal output is much improved with this on. But, it still isn't something where we are constantly hammering crosses into the box, likely because we are still playing with more discipline. 

[04texag]

Get excited. I'll be doing a continuation of this series as I evaluate it's application in FM21, seeing how the new ME AI impacts things with our style of play. For this initial testing, I'll be using Sassuolo out of the Italian Serie A. I've picked them as I really like the way RL, Robert De Zerbi has adopted positional play with this team.

 

 

The initial club vision is just about right for how I'm planning on playing. That said, I've never managed in Italy before and it will be interesting to scout and try to work with only domestic talent.

 

Here is my initial lineup/tactic. Excited to get a preseason friendly going to see this ME.

 

[Amarante]

With the new ME this is gonna be ajoy to re-create.

[04texag]

I'll post an update after a few more hours with this, but the previous tactic is way too aggressive in the new ME. I'm currently using the very first tactic in this thread as a base and will adapt as I play some.

[04texag]

So after playing through a fair number of friendlies, I feel that the cautious mentality this thread started with is pretty important for FM21 so far. The team on a higher mentality really pushes too aggresively and doesn't maintain possession well. I'm getting the type of play I'm expecting with the below, which is very similar to the original tactic. That said, I have tweaked some PIs. If things hold as they are as I enter season play tomorrow, I'll push out more information on PIs. What I've been testing though, as a teaser, is making all of my playmaking and midfield players (minus the AML) have more direct and/or take more risks on their passing. Additionally, the CBS have had to have their pressing instructions reduced.

 

[Big Yellow]

Looking forward to reading more! Have you noticed any improvement in the central play with the RPM and AP?

In my Ozil experiment, i definitely found that the direct passes played a big role in the number and type of through-ball passes he attempts. The shorter passing is useful for a deeper playmaker to recycle possession or even tee it off for the main "playmaker" to unlock the defense. 

[ferrarinseb]

1 hour ago, 04texag said:

So after playing through a fair number of friendlies, I feel that the cautious mentality this thread started with is pretty important for FM21 so far. The team on a higher mentality really pushes too aggresively and doesn't maintain possession well. I'm getting the type of play I'm expecting with the below, which is very similar to the original tactic. That said, I have tweaked some PIs. If things hold as they are as I enter season play tomorrow, I'll push out more information on PIs. What I've been testing though, as a teaser, is making all of my playmaking and midfield players (minus the AML) have more direct and/or take more risks on their passing. Additionally, the CBS have had to have their pressing instructions reduced.

 

How your Attack players vs Support players are performing. In FM 20 i often feel Attack players are just too extreme thus shooting from weird areas where as Support is conservative.

[lipebtavares]

On 11/8/2020 at 11:09 AM, Raymond85 said:

Just to give you some input on this version of your tactics, i really liked the reasoning on everything behind this iteration of the tactic and gave it a spin on an Ajax new save, as i know the squad really well and thought they could get away with this kind of football.

Only change i had was going for the false 9 up front, having an incredible one in Tadic. Don't mind the players, i obviously made some sales in the summer, as i wanted to give a youth only save a spin. I had Veltman for Pierie in defence and Ziyiech for Gravenberch, and lastly Neres was in the Kuhn spot top right. And narrow defending as i noticed it made me a little more solid, but not sure if it really was a decisive factor

 

Here are the results:

 

Stormed the league with no bother (but that's the easy part)

 

Champions League is where we really did amazing things, and the tactic proved incredibly solid, still showing amazing proactive passing football going forward. We just were unlucky against psg in the semis, and i think we would have truly deserved that extra goal at home which would have lead us into the final.

 

If you are interested in some stats or other things, give me a shout

Did you use individual instructions?

[04texag]

10 hours ago, Big Yellow said:

Looking forward to reading more! Have you noticed any improvement in the central play with the RPM and AP?

In my Ozil experiment, i definitely found that the direct passes played a big role in the number and type of through-ball passes he attempts. The shorter passing is useful for a deeper playmaker to recycle possession or even tee it off for the main "playmaker" to unlock the defense. 

Great thread of your own BTW. 

It's too early to tell really, and I'm finding that Sassuolo represents more of what I think would be a fun long term save than a good team to do an initial tactical test with. I'm exploring the idea of using the tactic in another short save series with a stronger team, just to put this tactic through its paces in the new ME for FM21. So far, I am seeing better central play from one main aspect. When the field gets crowded, my players are much more composed on the ball. They don't panic and pass back immediately or launch the ball somewhere with us losing possession. I have seen much better quick passing, maintaining possession. I've even seen more variety of passes, in the last game my AP-A made a brilliant high arced looping pass over two defenders to my AML who was making a diagonal run into the box. It was beautiful.

I'll post better analysis once I'm more comfortable and understanding everything I'm seeing from a changes standpoint.

[04texag]

I think I have the tactic really clicking now. I'm seeing some absolutely lovely play. The off the ball movement of guys into space is a huge improvement in this ME. And this tactic is setting us up perfectly for this. I might could do a whole video with highlights, but that would take time to put together.

My plan today is to load up some like tournaments (not career games) to individually test the tactic with a few different teams. I'm thinking I'll play two games each, just to sharpen the tactic and see how things look across different competitions. I'm thinking Man City, Lazio (Luis alberto looks dreamy as my RPM), maybe Barca, and Ajax. 

I'm getting excited though. FM21 is looking good. 

[anindyarajan19]

Something that I have seen is that extremely urgent pressing rarely works as it is supposed to. Players overcommit with this setting. I've found far more joy with a balanced high press.

[Lexis]

[FM21] Has anyone succeeded in recreating a Pep-Barcelona type of tactic with a False 9 / Trequartista centrally?

I've started with Barcelona in FM21 and, while the possession game works efficiently, I can't seem to be able to get Messi to perform in a central F9 / Trequartista role.

I've tried various roles with this for the wide men, I can't seem to be able to bring Messi into play to replicate his influence on the game.

I'd expect the F9 to be a more playmaking role akin to today, with the trequartista being a more offensive version, similar to Pep's Messi role.

[04texag]

8 hours ago, anindyarajan19 said:

Something that I have seen is that extremely urgent pressing rarely works as it is supposed to. Players overcommit with this setting. I've found far more joy with a balanced high press.

I remember seeing something in tall of the feature releases that this was going to be a thing. They wanted to tone down gegenpressing this year, especially with it wearing out your squad. We  by no means have an aggressive press going in this tactic, but definitely mindful of it. 

[04texag]

I've been continuing with the Sassuolo career, and it's been going well so far. We are 3-1 in the league, only giving up 1 goal in our 1-0 loss to Bologna away from home. It does seem like we either score a lot of goals, or it's a defensive stalemate. I'm working on more offensive consistency to match our defensive stability. I believe that the position I'm struggling with the most so far is the PRD for the AMC. I do have a brand new signing there, so that doesn't help. I'm rotating between AM-A, AM-S, AP-A.

So far, the stars on my team are the RPM, Locatelli, and the AMR, Berardi. Unfortunately, Berardi just got injured and will miss 7-9 months! Yikes. In his first three games, he had 4 goals and 2 assists. We will miss that production. The other sad part is that two other stars immediately wanted to leave at the start of the save. Djuridic and Boga both left to bigger teams, and that made me sad, as both were perfect for my tactical plans. Now i'm left with several average players who can play the roles, and remarkably there are several at each position with strikingly similar attributes. Feels like they didn't really give some of these guys enough attention. Anywho, we shall see how things develop.

Here is my base tactic I'm working with. And then below it is a little more open playing version, with balanced mentality instead of cautious, and wide shape instead of narrow. 

 

 

If you all have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. 

 

 

[JoOSTAR]

22 minutes ago, 04texag said:

I've been continuing with the Sassuolo career, and it's been going well so far. We are 3-1 in the league, only giving up 1 goal in our 1-0 loss to Bologna away from home. It does seem like we either score a lot of goals, or it's a defensive stalemate. I'm working on more offensive consistency to match our defensive stability. I believe that the position I'm struggling with the most so far is the PRD for the AMC. I do have a brand new signing there, so that doesn't help. I'm rotating between AM-A, AM-S, AP-A.

So far, the stars on my team are the RPM, Locatelli, and the AMR, Berardi. Unfortunately, Berardi just got injured and will miss 7-9 months! Yikes. In his first three games, he had 4 goals and 2 assists. We will miss that production. The other sad part is that two other stars immediately wanted to leave at the start of the save. Djuridic and Boga both left to bigger teams, and that made me sad, as both were perfect for my tactical plans. Now i'm left with several average players who can play the roles, and remarkably there are several at each position with strikingly similar attributes. Feels like they didn't really give some of these guys enough attention. Anywho, we shall see how things develop.

Here is my base tactic I'm working with. And then below it is a little more open playing version, with balanced mentality instead of cautious, and wide shape instead of narrow. 

 

 

If you all have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. 

 

 

Any specific Player instructions?

[04texag]

2 minutes ago, JoOSTAR said:

Any specific Player instructions?

The PI's have not changed since earlier in the thread, with the exception being adding takes more risk PI to the AMC, and the AMR.

[sherifdinn_]

Been hearing lots of positive talk on the new ME. Might actually get this edition early for once!

[04texag]

2 minutes ago, sherifdinn_ said:

Been hearing lots of positive talk on the new ME. Might actually get this edition early for once!

So far, I'm enjoying it. There are plenty of small bugs and annoyances in the UI, but I'm enjoying the new featureset. The ME AI is seeming improved, but it's small things, nothing super game changing that I've seen so far. 

[sherifdinn_]

2 minutes ago, 04texag said:

So far, I'm enjoying it. There are plenty of small bugs and annoyances in the UI, but I'm enjoying the new featureset. The ME AI is seeming improved, but it's small things, nothing super game changing that I've seen so far. 

Yes I'm very excited about the ME, been seeing some little things in GIFs that I never saw on fm20. 

[04texag]

Here is our first monthly data analysis report. Looking good from here. We also just had a great 1-0 win over Roma, our first really big test.

[zlatanera]

@Lexis Don't mean to sound rude, but if you want Messi to be a playmaker, why don't you just make him a playmaker? Admittedly I'm just on FM19 here but most of the current Barcelona squad are quite familiar to any long-time FM player. Personally I would use him as a Trequartista, either at ST, AMC, or AMR (the latter would allow Griezmann to play as your striker). I'd lose Sergio Busquets as a playmaker and either use him as an ordinary DM (he's a very technical player so it won't suddenly turn him into Nobby Stiles) or perhaps a HB. 

[ericstpeter]

4 hours ago, JoOSTAR said:

Any specific Player instructions?

Would you mind laying all the PI’s you use again? I’m having a hard time being sure I have them right.

[04texag]

What are you playing on FM20 or FM21? As for FM21, I'm not fully confident yet in all of the new ME changes and how it's impacting my tactics. I'm also getting used to new squads so it's taking a bit. Unfortunately, I've been pretty busy.

Good news though, and off topic, but it's halfway through November and I've hit 25k words of my 50k word goal for my new novel! So hopefully I'll be able to make the NaNoWriMo goal! But of course that has been eating in to my playing time.

I have started a new thread to document my save and club DNA approach for positional play for FM21, which can be found here:

 

[gokalpcakir1]

Although I read your first topic many times, PIs are pretty confusing, please can I find out what you are using in the current tactic?