CB Pairings Roles, EFC experiment

[toffee71]

This maybe better in stupid question thread but will try here.

At the minute I have my 2 cb as DCL cb def and DCR bpd def, doing ok but would like them to be doing better, both their attributes are good for their roles, but conceding few too many for my liking. In a previous save I think I had the same 2 but set as DCL cb cover and the DCR bpd def and can't remember if this combination worked better. I don't use a DM in any of my 3 formations and I'm still getting results. I know that a lot is trial and error, but I don't want to throw points away experimenting.

Which attributes should I be looking for for the pairing to work well?

Would the pairing with the cover duty be better against the bigger teams?

[Experienced Defender]

There is no rule. I personally like to use a cover / defend combo in a 4-man defence, but it all depends on what kind of players they are, what type of tactic and system you play and so on.

In terms of attributes, I tend to look at the cover CB as "corrector", so he IMO needs to be more intelligent and preferably faster (acceleration), but intelligence in the first place (ant, pos, dec, cnt, cmp).

[Real]

I think I saw a whole article on this.  But generally I prefer all my CDs (and I often play 3) have different (St/De/Co).  I think it adds a lot more.  Obviously depends on how you're conceding goals; if it's through balls from deep you want a cover, if it's from crosses it might not be a CD problem alone, if it's from opposing AM having too much time you might want a stopper.

[dannysheard]

Both as just CB on defend duty. Conceded 7 goals in 31 league games as Liverpool.

Their PPM will make them do more if appropriate, like VvD bringing the ball out of defence.

[Synx]

Defend/defend as basic defence. Good at everything, doesn't Excell against anything. 

Cover/defend if you struggle with through balls a lot. 

Defend/stopper if the AM is their main playmaker and you don't have a DM. (I don't really use this one).

Stopper/cover against lone front player teams, and I also use this whenever I play a very defensive DM (like an anchor man).

Cover/cover maybe if you play some tactic with double somewhat defensive DMs.

For 3 defenders you can combine more freely. I often go for defend/cover/defend, or cover/stopper/cover

[bangkonggedek]

I just want to add that from my experience, using a Center-backs with high level of Aggression on Cover duty often leads to poor outcomes.

[Tom8983]

I usually just stick to def/def but I'm very tempted to try a def/cover setup to see if it helps reduce the long balls over the top goals. I'm playing as Liverpool so am normally the dominant team playing high up the pitch.

[toffee71]

Thanks for replies guys. It's tweaked my curiosity.

Have just set up new game for trial experiment, all staff set and about to start a 10 game preseason, though my test will be over first 10 league games + with a bit of luck 2 cup games! with same tactics though CB roles will change and may end up with a tweak or 2. I won't show my tactics until I have done 2 or 3 runs. But they are what I describe as a wonky 4231,this has a very weak spot, which may involve doing the test again with the 2 CB roles switched, a 41dm22w1, w for wide not wing, and what I a call a 433. And for my test to be true, I will have to do the preseason and training for roles for fair reflection. I will try to use the same tactic for each match in each test, as in 10/12 games I will use all 3 anyway, but this isn't set in stone.

But I found the attributes side so tough a real managers headache my 5 CB are Kurt Zouma, Yerry Mina, Michael Keane, Phil Jagielka and Mason Holgate. The first 3 the call for roles is very close except Zouma well ahead on speed. Zouma/Mina/Jags all training as CB cover, Keane/Holgate as BPD def. I will change roles for 2nd run as tempted to try a BPD cover with Keane probably with a CB def, but that will come later. The problem with Zouma is I have to start to untrain him going forward.

First run will be with DCL CB cover and DCR BPD def. All being well should be through this within a week.

[yonko]

If conceding goals is your concern, then it about more than just the 2 CB's roles. It's about your whole tactic and especially how you set up the back 6 in a 4231.

Think about the whole picture not just 2 player roles. You may have the two best defenders in the game, but if you leave them exposed through bad set up, then they will be leaking goals too.

On the flip side, a well built set up can make even average CBs perform like all-time greats. 

As far as attributes, I look for Anticipation, Concentration, Decisions and Positioning as the prime requirements. One of them has to have Pace, while the other one has to be good in the air (Jumping/Heading). Marking, Tackling and Composure are bonus for me. I rather take a defender with stronger mentals than anything else though.

[Old Scouser Tommy]

27 minutes ago, yonko said:

As far as attributes, I look for Anticipation, Concentration, Decisions and Positioning as the prime requirements. One of them has to have Pace, while the other one has to be good in the air (Jumping/Heading). Marking, Tackling and Composure are bonus for me. I rather take a defender with stronger mentals than anything else though.

Completely agree with this. I like playing lower league so mental stats are far more important to me as most players are on a similar level. For a centre half pairing I just have both as CB Defend. Nothing too fancy but they must have good Positioning, Decisions and Anticipation. Pace is a bonus. I think my 2 first choice have around 11 or 12 for pace which doesn't seem too special but the mental stats compensate plus they're very rarely up against ridiculously quick strikers. It's prefect for my system you may want something different. If I managed Liverpool 1 of them probably Van Dijk would be a Ball Playing Defender maybe even both depending on the system.

[yonko]

4 minutes ago, Old Scouser Tommy said:

Completely agree with this. I like playing lower league so mental stats are far more important to me as most players are on a similar level. For a centre half pairing I just have both as CB Defend. Nothing too fancy but they must have good Positioning, Decisions and Anticipation. Pace is a bonus. I think my 2 first choice have around 11 or 12 for pace which doesn't seem too special but the mental stats compensate plus they're very rarely up against ridiculously quick strikers. It's prefect for my system you may want something different. If I managed Liverpool 1 of them probably Van Dijk would be a Ball Playing Defender maybe even both depending on the system.

I haven't managed lower leagues, but I think the important attributes are the same. It's just that they all relative to the rest of the teams in your division. Then it's a question of attribute minimum threshold for your competition level. At the highest level it maybe 14-15 + for the important attributes, while at the lower levels it may be 10-12 +.

I would be very careful with the BPD role. And I would ignore the game recommended role suitability for each player. At Liverpool, Joe Gomez is listed as most suitable for BPD role, but his vision is too low for that role.

The best and probably the only true BPD (the prototype or benchmark if you will for the role) at the start is Gerard Pique. Look at his first touch, passing, technique, composure, decisions and vision attributes. Those are key for the role compared to a regular CD role. 

[toffee71]

2 hours ago, yonko said:

If conceding goals is your concern, then it about more than just the 2 CB's roles. It's about your whole tactic and especially how you set up the back 6 in a 4231.

Think about the whole picture not just 2 player roles. You may have the two best defenders in the game, but if you leave them exposed through bad set up, then they will be leaking goals too.

On the flip side, a well built set up can make even average CBs perform like all-time greats. 

As far as attributes, I look for Anticipation, Concentration, Decisions and Positioning as the prime requirements. One of them has to have Pace, while the other one has to be good in the air (Jumping/Heading). Marking, Tackling and Composure are bonus for me. I rather take a defender with stronger mentals than anything else though.

I was just coming to update this topic, and I know it's my tactics, it's not a concern just a curiosity, I've always been naive defensively, I win enough when not playing as EFC so it's not just down to bad tactics, even though my favourite tactic is a 4231, so far it's not been my primary tactic for this experiment, I understand tactics, I'm always tweaking and adjusting in match. Though I regularly pick the wrong formation for the opposition. I usually get bored with my saves after 2 or 3 seasons, when I have won couple of things, rinse and repeat, at least this time I have a purpose with my rinse and repeat, and I may learn a bit along the way.

In 2 of my last 3 matches tactics both failed me and worked for me. Away to Brighton, inevitably they set up very defensively, after 20mins was clear I wasn't going to break them, 9 behind the ball, so I moved my lines right back to create some space but it was a day none of players could hit a barn door, they nicked a goal just before half time, so on the 60min mark few tweaks to chase game lost 2-0. Just played Utd went 1 down in 1st half, CB og,! against run of play, second half stretched my lines over whole pitch put highest intensity got equaliser, and boths teams then were going hammer and tong for last half hour, and we missed 88th min penalty, was a cracking match, tackles everywhere.

Back to the defensive thing, Can't say I'm to happy with the cover defender, I don't see him covering just chasing his partner around, both CB have the lowest possible press but they chase together, I don't go team pressing high unless I'm chasing a game before anybody says it's the pressing intensity.

So far in first run, had my worst preseason I can recall, lost first 3 games, but then it got bit better and was ok after the 10 games, when subbing in preseason was doing it as pairs for the CB. First game of season lost 5-2 away to Spurs was doing ok 2-1 down, until I went to 10 men after injury when I had done all subs, conceded 3 in last 12mins, scored 1 too. Then beat watford 4-1, then the Brighton game, league cup beat Walsall 4-1 and considering I had a debutant red carded after 7minutes, was very happy with this as I was using my 3rd tactic a 433 with 2 playmakers in preparation for Utd match, but will persevere with my experiment, though already thinking will have to be over a full season. In defence of my league record, Spurs have also done Arsenal 5-0, and Brighton are currently 2nd in table 3 wins and a draw from opening 4 league games. Will show results and formations after 10 league games, to see if you guys have any recommendations.

If anyone wants to check out the CB's at EFC and make a recommended pairing with suitable roles then I will make that the next experiment run, only condition not both cb def, thats my bog standard that I'm determined to get away from, at least until I've done few experiments. Bear in mind Mina can't do preseason as still on holiday, so he has to be eased in, he started against Walsall, 2 cracking headers from setpieces, couldn't drop him and so he also played against Utd. though will revert back to Zouma and Keane for next match at least.

@yonko how you set up the back 6 in a 4231. I know this the weakness in my team the 2 cm's are a BWMd and MEZa, the MEZa is the weak point I mentioned as my weak spot in my wonky 4231, but it's a formation that when it works is great to watch. I will post screenies in next couple of days.

[yonko]

2 hours ago, toffee71 said:

@yonko how you set up the back 6 in a 4231. I know this the weakness in my team the 2 cm's are a BWMd and MEZa, the MEZa is the weak point I mentioned as my weak spot in my wonky 4231, but it's a formation that when it works is great to watch. I will post screenies in next couple of days.

I had a feeling your cause of leaking goals is not the CB roles pairing. The trouble is midfield with these roles you have.

CMd + DLPs is my favorite set up. Or DLPd + BBMs. But really any combination of these 4 roles/duties will work. You can also throw in a CARs. In a 4231 you need both CMs to be holders and not venture too far forward. BBM is probably the most adventurous role I would use. BWM is doable only if you're using a high pressing tactic.

You have 4 players high up the field who can attack at any moment. Assuming one of your fullbacks is also adventurous, then that is plenty men forward. That more adventurous fullback needs to be on the same side as the more conservative CM, btw.

Here is one sample set up for example:

---------------------AF-A-------------------

IF-S---------------AP-A--------------W-A

------------CM-D--------DLP-S-----------

WB-S-----BPD-D------CD-D------FB-S

I'm not really familiar with what players you have at your disposal though. 

[Old Scouser Tommy]

4 hours ago, yonko said:

I would be very careful with the BPD role. And I would ignore the game recommended role suitability for each player. At Liverpool, Joe Gomez is listed as most suitable for BPD role, but his vision is too low for that role.

Yeah you're right and I'm always wary of using one but as long as the roles around it benefit the system it compensates for the cons of the role. I'm not one who looks at the 'recommended' roles of players as long as they have the attributes I require for that role. And again it's all about the system as a whole everything has to compliment everything else.

[toffee71]

36 minutes ago, yonko said:

I'm not really familiar with what players you have at your disposal though. 

It's the original Everton squad in game.

My 433 is developing quite well at the minute, still conceding though and I think I may stick with it for a while, and it has bought me back to using playmakers, which I got away from in previous FMs, when I was trying to replicate martinez tikkitakka, urghh. Will do screenies later as promised with TI's, got to give my way a go first then you lot can tell me where I'm wrong. As I say I know the MEZa is a weak point, in the 41221 sometimes becomes MEZs, and in the 4231 as I said I love watching this when it works

the 433 is like this                                   41221                                      4231

                   PFs                   /                       PFs                  /                      PFs                 

APs------------------------IFs   /    Wa------------------------IFs  /     Wa---AMs---------------IFs 

     BWMd--BBMs--DLPd     /              BBMs--MEZa          /              BBMs--MEZa         

                                                                 BWMd         

WBa---CDc---BPDd---WBa   /   WBs---CDc---BPDd---WBs  /    WBs---CDc---BPDd---WB  

Think time for topic name change.

[toffee71]

Have sort of decided to change my rules, again, as I've become a bit of a tinkerman and seeing what works in match.

I want to keep using the 3 formations above and tweak the player roles, though my priorities are to to get a great CB pairing with suitable roles. Primarily I have started to remove some TI's and use an AP wide on the left. Ideally I want to develop my 4231 but solidify it a bit, have just used as above except AMs now APs with Wa, but after going 2 up we conceded so changed the MEZa to DLPs and we went on to win 3-1, but before match changed the CBs to DCL NCBd as suits Mina better and BPDd for Keane.

So will run for season tinkering with tactics then run again with the different CB roles.

[yonko]

4 hours ago, toffee71 said:

Have sort of decided to change my rules, again, as I've become a bit of a tinkerman and seeing what works in match.

I want to keep using the 3 formations above and tweak the player roles, though my priorities are to to get a great CB pairing with suitable roles. Primarily I have started to remove some TI's and use an AP wide on the left. Ideally I want to develop my 4231 but solidify it a bit, have just used as above except AMs now APs with Wa, but after going 2 up we conceded so changed the MEZa to DLPs and we went on to win 3-1, but before match changed the CBs to DCL NCBd as suits Mina better and BPDd for Keane.

So will run for season tinkering with tactics then run again with the different CB roles.

Don't think of roles in isolation or just relative to the partner next to them. Think of the overall picture and how each role will link with what you want your WHOLE team to play like. If you have to change roles often that is a sign that your whole system is not well balanced or thought out. 

Start with clear idea of how you want your team to play and who plays what part in that plan. Build from there. Research. There are so many threads regarding the 4231 formation and how to build a successful tactic based on it.

If you want to make a MEZ-A work with that formation, you have to balance all the roles around him accordingly. The other midfielder next to him needs to be a more static role - simple CM-D or DLP-D should do. The Fullback on the same side as the MEZ has to be defensive/conservative. Your best CB has to play on that side also. Have a Winger on that side as well. You see, one role starts a chain reaction and dictates what other roles you must choose to make it work.

If and when you change the MEZ-A to DLP-S that requires a who different set of roles around him. And so on and so on.

[toffee71]

20 hours ago, yonko said:

Don't think of roles in isolation or just relative to the partner next to them. Think of the overall picture and how each role will link with what you want your WHOLE team to play like. If you have to change roles often that is a sign that your whole system is not well balanced or thought out. 

Think this is where I make my mistakes, I'm kind of rigid in my formations, I like what I know, and know what I like, so then I allocate players to their preferred roles in my formations, and I don't think about the effect roles have on other positions, but thanks to you and others, I am evolving my tactics, my 433 with 2 playmakers, is fast becoming my favourite and its setup is quite defensive but with attacking mentality and it's working well against the big boys and for tricky away games, but have noticeably struggled at home against so called lesser opposition, but that's because I'm currently on a very good run, and they do what I do against bigger teams and try to stifle them, but have started listening to my AM a bit and changing more in match to try breaking teams down. I also noticed an improvement after removing some TI's.

Have found a nice role combination for my CBs the NCB works well with any of the others, I use NCBd+CDcover against the bigger teams and NCB+BPDd/CDd against the others and since my defeat against Brighton have only conceded more than 1 once and that was again another experiment in a cup game.

I did a single match experiment against Wolves away as I won 1-0 with my wonky 4231, because I checked their formations in their previous matches and noticed they played 532 against the big teams, so my 4231 was best option, the 4122w1 got a 0-0 just couldn't break them down and the 433 1-1 again couldn't break them down, have carried on with my original 1-0 win, breaking down a flat back 8 is difficult.

The MEZa in the 4231 has become MEZs/BBMs depending player/opposition, and if I'm winning at half time he becomes a DLPd, and the AMs is now APs, I have solidified quite a bit, but scoring a few less, but I'm happy with this. But the 4231 is now my least used tactic though it is my primary trained tactic and assuming my U23 + U18 managers use this it is working very well, though I understand a lot of that will be down to weaker opponents

20 hours ago, yonko said:

Start with clear idea of how you want your team to play and who plays what part in that plan. Build from there

I've never had a problem building a winning tactic through all my years, but always defensively naive, my 4231's always work well enough and I score plenty but let myself down at the back.

Plenty of screenies done, but really enjoying game at minute and that will be long post so bare with me for them.

My interest in the defensive side and CB's especially is I'm preparing for some LLM where I know the "fancy" tactics won't work as well, and I want to understand more defensively for that.

[yonko]

You still think about roles in isolation. Forget about preferred roles. They don't matter at all. Think of roles only in terms of how they link in order to make your team/tactic perform in the way you want it to play out on the field. You have to have an idea or vision of how you want your team to play, what style, etc. 

Do you know how you want to play with Everton? Counter-attacking, Attacking, Possession, Geggenpress, etc. - what type of football you want to play? So far I haven't read how you want to play. You keep changing and switching based on your opponents. You're being reactive rather than pick a style and making it work.

[Miravlix]

On 16/11/2018 at 14:34, Synx said:

For 3 defenders you can combine more freely. I often go for defend/cover/defend, or cover/stopper/cover

 

Two man Cover seems to be problematic, say you have CD/C CD/D and the CD/D is going at a player, the CD/C will leave the midfield to help because his role is to cover, leaving the middle of the pitch horrible empty.

 

Might be true of Stopper too as he may join the CD/D in stopping the attacker.

 

I think you need holding DM's to use non /D dual defenders, or at least one holding CD with 3.

 

I regularly have 0 opposition shots with WB/S CD/D CD/C WB/S and a HB/D setup and they all play counter as I'm the unopposed super team in EPL.

[bennyj22]

3 hours ago, Miravlix said:

 

Two man Cover seems to be problematic, say you have CD/C CD/D and the CD/D is going at a player, the CD/C will leave the midfield to help because his role is to cover, leaving the middle of the pitch horrible empty.

 

Might be true of Stopper too as he may join the CD/D in stopping the attacker.

 

I think you need holding DM's to use non /D dual defenders, or at least one holding CD with 3.

 

I regularly have 0 opposition shots with WB/S CD/D CD/C WB/S and a HB/D setup and they all play counter as I'm the unopposed super team in EPL.

If teams regularly have 0 shots, what exactly are you countering? How do you play counter attacking football if you're also the unopposed super team? Wouldn't this imply possession football and the complete control/domination of games?

[toffee71]

14 hours ago, yonko said:

Do you know how you want to play with Everton? Counter-attacking, Attacking, Possession, Geggenpress, etc. - what type of football you want to play? So far I haven't read how you want to play. You keep changing and switching based on your opponents. You're being reactive rather than pick a style and making it work.

I have to admit style of play kind of confuses me, I know I don't want Geggenpress or tikki-takka, I suppose I want attacking/counter-attacking from a solid base, but not sure, as I've previously said it's the defensive side I concerned about not my tactics, though I do now understand that one effects the other.

I've confused this thread myself, I started by wanting to get my CB roles sorted without a DM but have clouded it by trying to incorporate all the advice at once, I am appreciative of your feedback, it has helped me put together and great streak, which unfortunately just ended in a big way. Also I am a reactive manager in match especially if I fall behind, I will go chasing a game early, which is 50/50 work/fail, and that will always be on me. My defensive issue aren't even that bad as screenies below show, but it's the amount of games I concede in 20 games into the season, only 5 clean sheets, though this is probably the only bit of my season that is a true reflection of Everton.

But first my 3 tactics, have ditched the 41221 now replaced with another 433. Now have settled on NCB + BPD as my CB roles, both on def, though if facing quick forward may change to cover in match.

Spoiler

Away/Bigger Team 433                                               3rd Tactic Wonky 4231 weak oppo                         Home 433/ weak oppo away

Stats

Spoiler

As you can see I'm probably being over critical of myself and my defence, but there's just too many 1's in the against column, I don't mind defeats, like the one that ended my unbeaten run as I went chasing the game from 2 down. Even though the 4-0 win over Arsenal is the standout result the most satisfying was the 1-1 at home to City as it was a solid defensive effort and the 1-0 against Wolves especially after running a separate experiment on that game. The cup defeat to Liverpool was kind of my throwing game as just beaten them in league, I went wonky 4231 to try and catch them out and it backfired, but didn't want extra game in Dec anyway

On 16/11/2018 at 13:34, Synx said:

For 3 defenders you can combine more freely. I often go for defend/cover/defend, or cover/stopper/cover

I normally don't introduce 3 at the back until second season, just as a surprise formation for games I'm expected to win big or to catch a big team out. And will do so in this case.

[Robson 07]

@toffee71 this may seem off the wall but do you watch the NFL?  In American Football the two deepest defensive players are known as the Free Safety and Strong Safety.  The strong safety is bigger, more physical and can play linebacker.  He's part used to stop the opposition run game,  The free safety is nearly always defensive cover playing the pass.  He is a great reader of the game and normally a very fast athlete.  He cover the deep ball, the pass over the top, a bit like a sweeper gets round behind the other defensive backs.

In FM parlance the free safety is cover and the strong safety is the stopper. 

The NFL is very, very tactical playing zone defence, man defence, zone-man etc.  Might be some interesting research there or not .  But a fast cover guy when defending high the pitch seems sensible enough particularly on the side where the full back is either slow or likely to be found out high up the pitch attacking.

I think Rio and Vidic swapped positions at Utd because of Evra.  Evra was amazingly attacking and constantly down the left-wing.  So Rio went to centre back left as he was faster than Vidic and thus better cover.  Vidic being more aggressive and physical played right alongside a Wes Brown and was more ball winner (stopper).

Don't know if any of that ramble helps but I've thrown it in anyway.

[Miravlix]

15 hours ago, bennyj22 said:

If teams regularly have 0 shots, what exactly are you countering? How do you play counter attacking football if you're also the unopposed super team? Wouldn't this imply possession football and the complete control/domination of games?

 

I think you need to re-read what I said, it's the other teams that play counter and I counter counter football with the defensive line I mentioned.

[Bakiano]

On 18/11/2018 at 19:35, yonko said:

I haven't managed lower leagues, but I think the important attributes are the same. It's just that they all relative to the rest of the teams in your division. Then it's a question of attribute minimum threshold for your competition level. At the highest level it maybe 14-15 + for the important attributes, while at the lower levels it may be 10-12 +.

I would be very careful with the BPD role. And I would ignore the game recommended role suitability for each player. At Liverpool, Joe Gomez is listed as most suitable for BPD role, but his vision is too low for that role.

The best and probably the only true BPD (the prototype or benchmark if you will for the role) at the start is Gerard Pique. Look at his first touch, passing, technique, composure, decisions and vision attributes. Those are key for the role compared to a regular CD role. 

What about Bonucci?

[toffee71]

On 21/11/2018 at 19:47, Robson 07 said:

@toffee71 this may seem off the wall but do you watch the NFL?  In American Football the two deepest defensive players are known as the Free Safety and Strong Safety.  The strong safety is bigger, more physical and can play linebacker.  He's part used to stop the opposition run game,  The free safety is nearly always defensive cover playing the pass.  He is a great reader of the game and normally a very fast athlete.  He cover the deep ball, the pass over the top, a bit like a sweeper gets round behind the other defensive backs.

In FM parlance the free safety is cover and the strong safety is the stopper. 

The NFL is very, very tactical playing zone defence, man defence, zone-man etc.  Might be some interesting research there or not .  But a fast cover guy when defending high the pitch seems sensible enough particularly on the side where the full back is either slow or likely to be found out high up the pitch attacking.

I think Rio and Vidic swapped positions at Utd because of Evra.  Evra was amazingly attacking and constantly down the left-wing.  So Rio went to centre back left as he was faster than Vidic and thus better cover.  Vidic being more aggressive and physical played right alongside a Wes Brown and was more ball winner (stopper).

Don't know if any of that ramble helps but I've thrown it in anyway.

Superb analogy, yes I get it love NFL, am a Cowboys man for my sins well over 30 years, though more familiar with the roles at line of scrimmage and the attacking roles, the glamour end you could say.

Managed to get my defensive issues sorted and it was my own stupidity, my defensive coaches seemed to have changed in training wrong training assignments, once I re-ordered my coaches managed to cut down on the leakiness, not been too well last few days, will post screenies in a day or 2 for rest of season, won league with ease. Once settled on a NCB+BPD both on defend, and depending on opponent or my formation, could use cover with either role to good effect, covering either left or right side depending, only went badly wrong in one game.

Experiment well out of window after latest beta updates, massive change in possession stats in last few games of season, and few other issues since latest update, not sure if good or bad, but will do another run with settled defensive roles and see how it goes.

[toffee71]

This is how my season ended lot more clean sheets and I'm finally happy with my formations and defence, only one really bad game and I have no explanation at all for it, guess it was just one of those things, but 11 clean sheets in second half of season, means that this thread has helped me achieve what I wanted at the start.

As said in previous post my initial experiment has gone kaput, due to changes with ME in beta updates, but gives me an excuse for another thread.