The Heavy Metal Style of Play (Klopp Ball)

[NabsKebabs]

This is too good not to share. Yes I know I did say I wasn't posting again lol.

I recently started a Liverpool save because even though I'm an Arsenal supporter, the brand of football Liverpool are playing is amazing and they had good success last season. I wanted to emulate that in FM.

I've just smashed Juventus 6-1 in the CL with Bobby Firmino scoring 5. 

The main thing is the style of play is close to spot on.

Here's the tactic:

PI's:

GK: None

Defence: None

MCR: None

MC: More direct passes, more risky passes

MCL: Close down much more

AMR: Close down much more, tackle harder

AML: Close down much more, tackle harder

ST: Close down much more, tackle harder

And here is what the goals against Juventus look like. One goal is excluded as it doesn't really reflect the style of play. FM or real life, you tell me?

The first 3 are all about pressing in the final third with a high block. The other 2 are from deeper positions. Infact, the last one was launched my goalkeeper who plays as a sweeper keeper on attack. 

I can go in to more detail on my tactical thoughts if requested but that usually doesn't end well. 

[westy8chimp]

Very good. Thats pretty much how i would setup if trying to recreate them.

[blehq12]

Love your minimalist style! Ever thought of trying a 4-2-3-1 with the imminent purchase of Nabil Fekir a new playmaker and the arrivals of Fabinho and Naby Keita?

[NabsKebabs]

On 18/06/2018 at 21:11, blehq12 said:

Love your minimalist style! Ever thought of trying a 4-2-3-1 with the imminent purchase of Nabil Fekir a new playmaker and the arrivals of Fabinho and Naby Keita?

Thanks mate! Won PL and CL in the first season and not really sure what to do with the save now.

Switching to a 4231 could be an option. My issue with that is Alex Oxlade Chamberlain was young player of the year in the league and midfielder of the season in the the CL playing as the Mezzala in the 3 man midfield so not sure how I would fit him in a 4231. Maybe as an AM(A) behind the striker. I'm just not sure if I even want to continue the save though. I successfully implemented the style and was successful in results so maybe will just leave it there. 

[NabsKebabs]

@Rashidi was just thinking it would be quite cool if you tried out my heavy metal tactic in one of your Kop Diaries YT shows? 

[M4nager1a]

It's not Heavy metal without those Close down more and High-tempo team instruction :V Klopp is the master of Stamina killer

[Margent2]

8 minutes ago, M4nager1a said:

It's not Heavy metal without those Close down more and High-tempo team instruction :V Klopp is the master of Stamina killer

He has them specifically applied to the front players as PIs as you don’t see the centre backs specifically pressing for example. 

And the attacking mentality means in my opinion you don’t need the higher tempo TI. 

[NabsKebabs]

8 hours ago, Margent2 said:

He has them specifically applied to the front players as PIs as you don’t see the centre backs specifically pressing for example. 

And the attacking mentality means in my opinion you don’t need the higher tempo TI. 

Yep, exactly. I almost never use closing down from the TI. Using it with PI's allows certain areas of the pitch to be closed down. And attacking mentality + higher tempo would be complete overkill. 

[M4nager1a]

19 hours ago, Margent2 said:

He has them specifically applied to the front players as PIs as you don’t see the centre backs specifically pressing for example. 

And the attacking mentality means in my opinion you don’t need the higher tempo TI. 

I noticed the CB pressing.Aand I forgot that Attacking mentality highens the tempo XD my bad

11 hours ago, NabsKebabs said:

Yep, exactly. I almost never use closing down from the TI. Using it with PI's allows certain areas of the pitch to be closed down. And attacking mentality + higher tempo would be complete overkill. 

The heaviest metal is the best Heavy Metal :V

[iloveyouknap]

Do you use any oi's?

[NabsKebabs]

14 hours ago, iloveyouknap said:

Do you use any oi's?

I never use OI's, I let TI's and PI's do all the work. 

[ZoDiAC_]

On 20/06/2018 at 07:27, NabsKebabs said:

Thanks mate! Won PL and CL in the first season and not really sure what to do with the save now.

Switching to a 4231 could be an option. My issue with that is Alex Oxlade Chamberlain was young player of the year in the league and midfielder of the season in the the CL playing as the Mezzala in the 3 man midfield so not sure how I would fit him in a 4231. Maybe as an AM(A) behind the striker. I'm just not sure if I even want to continue the save though. I successfully implemented the style and was successful in results so maybe will just leave it there. 

I've tried, with some success, to retrain Oxlade as a CM, otherwise he's just a backup winger for Sadio or Mo.

He seems really good in this edition - quite flexible, I'm sure he could be used centrally quite effectively

[NabsKebabs]

50 minutes ago, ZoDiAC_ said:

I've tried, with some success, to retrain Oxlade as a CM, otherwise he's just a backup winger for Sadio or Mo.

He seems really good in this edition - quite flexible, I'm sure he could be used centrally quite effectively

He was absolutely unreal for me usually in midfield but also as a backup option on the flanks. If you want him in the middle it has to be in a 3 man midfield imo as his tackling and positioning are too low for a 2 man midfield.

He managed an average rating of 7.20 with 6 goals, 10 assists from 20 starts and 15 sub appearances in the league.

And an insane rating of 7.72 with 3 goals, 7 assists from 10 starts and 3 cameos in the champions league. Named midfielder of the tournament. 

[ZoDiAC_]

Heh, my main tactic is close to yours, except my midfield roles are AP, DLP, BBM and my striker is an AF

If you can get him, Icardi is fantastic

[Walshy]

I've used this tactic with a few different sides, including Liverpool, and it's absolutely ruthless. Have you made any alterations to it now that it's been a couple of months?

[kpsia518]

3 hours ago, Walshy said:

I've used this tactic with a few different sides, including Liverpool, and it's absolutely ruthless. Have you made any alterations to it now that it's been a couple of months?

i think this tactic only good if AI use high block or medium block tactic.

not for low bloc's AI 

[Snorks]

On 11/08/2018 at 16:33, kpsia518 said:

i think this tactic only good if AI use high block or medium block tactic.

not for low bloc's AI 

I use similar, again with Liverpool having taken over season 3.

Works against low-blocks as well - winning the ball back early, and high up the pitch.

[Experienced Defender]

I guess most of you guys will disagree with me, but when it comes to translating Liverpool's style of play under Klopp from real-life football into FM18, my opinion is that it would be standard or counter mentality + fluid shape (rather than attacking + structured). Your tactic obviously works excellently in the game, but that still doesn't mean it's an actual emulation of how LFC play in reality. When you look at how they play, it really creates an impression of Control or Attack. But even though FM is no doubt the most successful emulation of real football ever made, there are still some differences. For example, I don't think that in real football the Counter is a type of mentality in the real sense, but rather an option a manager can choose to apply to his playing style as one of its aspects. In that regard, FM was more realistic when the Use Counter Attacks was just an option within Team Instructions, and not one of the Mentalities. Back then, you could choose to play on counter attacks regardless of your basic mentality settings. Now it is a team mentality by itself.

Now, why I believe that LFC's control/attacking style in real life is actually counter/standard in FM18? Because it's tempo and pressing style that create the impression of a really high-risk mentality, plus a relatively high number of players with an Attack duty. LFC's high pressing game (especially by more offensive players) in combination with high tempo is what makes it look as an extremely attacking mentality. Relatively high d-line also contributes to this.

Here is how I would set the instructions if I wanted to emulate Klopp's LFC in FM18:

formation - same as yours (4-3-3)

mentality - counter or standard (depending on the type of opposition or a specific situation in the match being played)

shape - fluid / very fluid

d-line - higher (sometimes normal)

tempo - higher (occasionally reduced to normal, but only in certain stages of the match being played)

team passing - shorter (occasionally mixed)

team pressing - much more (somewhat reduced for centre backs through PI's)

team tackling - stay on feet

width - widest possible

build-up - play out of defence

work boll into box

crosses - low or mixed

As for player instructions:

sweeper keeper - support (occasionally attack)

DCR - CD cover

DCL (van Dijk) - BPD stopper

DR - WB support

DL (Robertson) - FB attack

roles and duties of 3 central midfielders vary from game to game and from situation to situation, but rarely is any of them on Defend duty)

AMR (Salah) - raumdeuter

AML (Mane) - IF support or attack (varies depending on the match or tactical changes made during a specific match)

ST (Firmino) - DLF or CF attack or support (varies again, just as with Mane)

I am going to try this approach with LFC in FM18 to see does it really resembles Klopp's style as soon as the time allows me.

[NabsKebabs]

On 11/08/2018 at 08:32, Walshy said:

I've used this tactic with a few different sides, including Liverpool, and it's absolutely ruthless. Have you made any alterations to it now that it's been a couple of months?

I only played 1 season. Didn't really feel like continuing after winning the PL and CL. As an Arsenal supporter I wasn't really interested in managing Liverpool for a long period of time, just wanted to try and emulate Klopp

[NabsKebabs]

12 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I guess most of you guys will disagree with me, but when it comes to translating Liverpool's style of play under Klopp from real-life football into FM18, my opinion is that it would be standard or counter mentality + fluid shape (rather than attacking + structured). Your tactic obviously works excellently in the game, but that still doesn't mean it's an actual emulation of how LFC play in reality. When you look at how they play, it really creates an impression of Control or Attack. But even though FM is no doubt the most successful emulation of real football ever made, there are still some differences. For example, I don't think that in real football the Counter is a type of mentality in the real sense, but rather an option a manager can choose to apply to his playing style as one of its aspects. In that regard, FM was more realistic when the Use Counter Attacks was just an option within Team Instructions, and not one of the Mentalities. Back then, you could choose to play on counter attacks regardless of your basic mentality settings. Now it is a team mentality by itself.

Now, why I believe that LFC's control/attacking style in real life is actually counter/standard in FM18? Because it's tempo and pressing style that create the impression of a really high-risk mentality, plus a relatively high number of players with an Attack duty. LFC's high pressing game (especially by more offensive players) in combination with high tempo is what makes it look as an extremely attacking mentality. Relatively high d-line also contributes to this.

Here is how I would set the instructions if I wanted to emulate Klopp's LFC in FM18:

formation - same as yours (4-3-3)

mentality - counter or standard (depending on the type of opposition or a specific situation in the match being played)

shape - fluid / very fluid

d-line - higher (sometimes normal)

tempo - higher (occasionally reduced to normal, but only in certain stages of the match being played)

team passing - shorter (occasionally mixed)

team pressing - much more (somewhat reduced for centre backs through PI's)

team tackling - stay on feet

width - widest possible

build-up - play out of defence

work boll into box

crosses - low or mixed

As for player instructions:

sweeper keeper - support (occasionally attack)

DCR - CD cover

DCL (van Dijk) - BPD stopper

DR - WB support

DL (Robertson) - FB attack

roles and duties of 3 central midfielders vary from game to game and from situation to situation, but rarely is any of them on Defend duty)

AMR (Salah) - raumdeuter

AML (Mane) - IF support or attack (varies depending on the match or tactical changes made during a specific match)

ST (Firmino) - DLF or CF attack or support (varies again, just as with Mane)

I am going to try this approach with LFC in FM18 to see does it really resembles Klopp's style as soon as the time allows me.

that could work too...there's many ways to skin the cat in the match engine. I was just really happy with my effort and felt it was worth sharing.

[Hootieleece]

I tried this out with both a VNS Team(Bognor Regis 2017/2018) and a Super Club (AS Roma 2049) on two different saves and it works quite well. It even works before players are truly trained in it. I like the minimalist TI's. 

The biggest thing is you need DC's with a lot of Pace, Acceleration, Decisions, Anticipation and Concentration.

Also works better if all players have high teamwork and workrate. The VNS team had a lot of single digits in those categories but still won quite a few games.

[thegoon65]

Would a Ramdauter work on the Left side? Or would he leave to big a gap and not contribute enough?

[NabsKebabs]

On 28/08/2018 at 23:03, Hootieleece said:

I tried this out with both a VNS Team(Bognor Regis 2017/2018) and a Super Club (AS Roma 2049) on two different saves and it works quite well. It even works before players are truly trained in it. I like the minimalist TI's. 

The biggest thing is you need DC's with a lot of Pace, Acceleration, Decisions, Anticipation and Concentration.

Also works better if all players have high teamwork and workrate. The VNS team had a lot of single digits in those categories but still won quite a few games.

I would never even think about using this with a VNS team to be honest. It's too intensive a system and you're right about the defenders needing to be very solid to pull it off!

[NabsKebabs]

16 hours ago, thegoon65 said:

Would a Ramdauter work on the Left side? Or would he leave to big a gap and not contribute enough?

Wouldn't work in most matches. Would only work if the opposition is playing very attacking fullbacks. Having all 3 front players on attack duty is generally not a good idea. 

[Hootieleece]

34 minutes ago, NabsKebabs said:

I would never even think about using this with a VNS team to be honest. It's too intensive a system and you're right about the defenders needing to be very solid to pull it off!

I tried it with VNS team because I had an open tactics slot in that save and wanted to copy it for future use.

The AS Roma team are great at it even though the wide players are wingers being retrained as inside forwards.

Overall it shows that speed is a killer in the Match Engine.

[Muerte706]

Tried something similar, but on a 4-2-3-1 with AC Milan. This tactic is impressive. I like how the ball moves fast, once you get it back from the opposition. I won the CL against Real Madrid 2-1 after ET and Coppa against Fiorentina. I had to change during the game a couple of things, and i had to push up all my players because i went down 1-0 on both finals but i turned them around. I switched from 4-2-3-1 DM with SV and DM to a 4-2-3-1 with DLP and BB.

[Muerte706]

This worked for a year or so, and it started to crumble. lost alot of points against bottom table teams, usually losing 1-0. the major weakness of a 4-2-3-1 is the AMC. He gets special attention, and he starts playing sht. I had to change it again to a 4-3-3 with DM, because of the need to get rid of the AMC. I'm at the start of a new season so i will see how things evolve from here.

[djpdavey]

I've been trying this out in the Vanarama North and I have to say it's the most exciting football i've had on FM.

I've done nearly a quarter of a season and I've only lost one against a 10 man side when I was an idiot and pushed to hard for another goal and got hit on the break 3 times in 5 minutes so my fault.

I've found that i'm playing like Liverpool did before Van Dyke. So central defensive frailties are there but I'm in love with a new save. I was able to get my signings done really quickly so on very high cohesion training got up to good cohesion and made sure my midfield had enough composure and first touch as well as work rate. Made sure the mez has enough flair and a forward has the agility and to change direction, can head and accelerate and finish. 

Am second so far but as I said loving it.

I have also got a 4-2-3-1 ready for formations where they have deeper midfield. Interested to hear of anyone else's lower league adventures playing like this.

[NabsKebabs]

On 29/09/2018 at 04:21, djpdavey said:

I've been trying this out in the Vanarama North and I have to say it's the most exciting football i've had on FM.

I've done nearly a quarter of a season and I've only lost one against a 10 man side when I was an idiot and pushed to hard for another goal and got hit on the break 3 times in 5 minutes so my fault.

I've found that i'm playing like Liverpool did before Van Dyke. So central defensive frailties are there but I'm in love with a new save. I was able to get my signings done really quickly so on very high cohesion training got up to good cohesion and made sure my midfield had enough composure and first touch as well as work rate. Made sure the mez has enough flair and a forward has the agility and to change direction, can head and accelerate and finish. 

Am second so far but as I said loving it.

I have also got a 4-2-3-1 ready for formations where they have deeper midfield. Interested to hear of anyone else's lower league adventures playing like this.

Good to hear mate.

If i was trying to use this with a lower league side, I would consider giving one of the fullbacks a defend duty or dropping the DLP back to the DM strata just so that the defence isn't as exposed. You likely won't have very fast defenders at that level so a bit of extra protection could do a world of good. 

[djpdavey]

7 hours ago, NabsKebabs said:

Good to hear mate.

If i was trying to use this with a lower league side, I would consider giving one of the fullbacks a defend duty or dropping the DLP back to the DM strata just so that the defence isn't as exposed. You likely won't have very fast defenders at that level so a bit of extra protection could do a world of good. 

i'll have a look at that. I have noticed a weakness on the FB(s) side. i'm going to open up a new thread about adapting the pressing game. it will be great if you can chime in.

[Cuncix382]

h