FM19 and beyond... Womens football? Do you want it?

[N^G]

2 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Where is the harm in having more staff to include a database of wondeful women footballers. And what would be the harm if you could choose to not include that database in your game, and giving the option for others to play using that database. 

 

The harm is that it potentially makes this series more expensive for players, or alternatively costs financial resource that might go to more relevant features all for a facet of the game that very few people are actually interested in playing.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Smurf said:

It might be tiny - but that's only people who search for it and download it and play it. Others wouldn't have know-how or think about even searching for it, or even buy the game at all because of no femal league. 

At the moment today there's  according to steam

MIn 25,853 

Peaked at  42,777

So adding another possibly 1,500 players to that count would be circa 5% increase given that all people using database were online at a similar time. 

Also that stat was from 2013 - 5 years ago. The demand may have risen since, it may have fallen.

If it's popular enough for people to share amongst themselves and share to a small population of already FM users - then it could be popular enough to be included in the full game.

 

I mean - let's not get bogged down in very bad stats either - the fact still remains, Balon d'Or is going to be first time ever presented to a female footballer, and I, for one, would like to see it represented in the game. 

Much more so than a player randomly declaring that they are gay. 

 

 

You forgot to adjust for the percentage of peak played numbers against total active copies so that 5% number is meaningless.

[Smurf]

Well equally your stats are meaningless as you don't know the percentage of female football managers, nor do you know the percentage of female football manager players that would like to play a version with a female database. 

Equally both of our stats are inept. 

 

[N^G]

3 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Cos it's all about the ladz innit?  Proper blokey blokes.  Doing blokey things.  No girls allowed, rite ladz?!!

And I probably would've if you hadn't just gone the tired "OMG SJW" route with your post.

But like I said, it still says a lot.  Other far more superfluous features have been added that are shoved into your face in a far more tedious manner.  But they have the temerity to add a game-mode that would likely be completely avoidable, but happens to involve *gasp* women, and that's the line?  

As I said, try discussing the issue rather than make personal attacks.

I have already stated my opinion on some of the features that I consider to be in the ballpark of lazy. but you are fixated on attacking me for having an opinion rather than discussing the actual topic at hand.

[Smurf]

1 minute ago, N^G said:

The harm is that it potentially makes this series more expensive for players, or alternatively costs financial resource that might go to more relevant features all for a facet of the game that very few people are actually interested in playing.

I could equally say that about them piling more resources into ME than into the UI. Just because I think they should spend time and revamp the entire UI doesn't make my needs greater over the ME. And when they a feature that I feel is worthless and a waste where they could have spent it on the UI it frustrates me every year. But it doesn't mean that they shouldn't have spent more money on other resources, regardless of my personal feelings.

[pukfm]

Noooo, please no!! 

[forameuss]

2 minutes ago, N^G said:

As I said, try discussing the issue rather than make personal attacks.

I have already stated my opinion on some of the features that I consider to be in the ballpark of lazy. but you are fixated on attacking me for having an opinion rather than discussing the actual topic at hand.

If you really think that's a personal attack, then it says even more.  You're welcome to have an opinion, but it doesn't mean it won't be pointed out when it equates women being in the game to "preaching social values".

The real reason why it'll never happen you touched on in a later post.  Nothing to do with "preaching", just a purely business decision.  Same as it'll be for any number of features.

[Smurf]

I'm not really asking for a full playable female database, although others may want it. 

I would like to see a few news items around womens' football pop up though, with Balon d'Or and other news items, like Female player of the year etc. 

I know it's a lot of work. But I think it would be time well spent. And womens' football has grown immensely in the last few years. 

The Womens FA Cup final had an attendance of 45,000+ 

 

https://blog.pitchero.com/the-growth-of-womens-football

 

It is growing and I hope SI do include it at some stage. Even building blocks in the background would be a good start. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Smurf said:

I could equally say that about them piling more resources into ME than into the UI. Just because I think they should spend time and revamp the entire UI doesn't make my nees greater over the ME. And when they a feature that I feel is worthless and a waste where they could have spent it on the UI it frustrates me every year. But it doesn't mean that they shouldn't have spent more money on other resources, regardless of my personal feelings.

 

[N^G]

12 minutes ago, Smurf said:

I could equally say that about them piling more resources into ME than into the UI. Just because I think they should spend time and revamp the entire UI doesn't make my needs greater over the ME. And when they a feature that I feel is worthless and a waste where they could have spent it on the UI it frustrates me every year. But it doesn't mean that they shouldn't have spent more money on other resources, regardless of my personal feelings.

the ME (whether 2d or 3d) and UI are both core features that this product cannot exist without. Resource will invariably go into them regardless.

Women's football is an entirely unnecessary feature, and the judgement for whether it should go in or not really comes down to whether it generates enough sales to cover the investment. My opinion based on the quality of women's football, the attendance levels that despite heavy pushing by the likes of BBC are minimal, is that the interest really isn't there.

Therefore it's inclusion wouldn't really generate any benefit to Sigames beyond some weak one-off publicity, a very small handful of additional sales; and in these polarised times would cost them probably more sales than they would gain from people disgusted by the move, as well as ongoing costs involved in maintaining the feature for future releases. That is why they appear to have reasonably set the bar at championship level attendances for this facet of football to be included.

[Guest]

Random news drops that had no connection to the game world is a very unsatisfying alternative, if SI were to make the decision to simulate any aspect of women's football I'd want them to go at it 100% & give it equal time as the men's game, anything less than that would in my opinion be nothing more than a hollow gesture.

[N^G]

4 minutes ago, forameuss said:

If you really think that's a personal attack, then it says even more.  You're welcome to have an opinion, but it doesn't mean it won't be pointed out when it equates women being in the game to "preaching social values".

The real reason why it'll never happen you touched on in a later post.  Nothing to do with "preaching", just a purely business decision.  Same as it'll be for any number of features.

Which is also the real reason why it would be "preaching social values" if they were to include it at this time, as anyone with eyes can see that the business motivation doesn't tally.

[CFuller]

1 minute ago, Smurf said:

I'm not really asking for a full playable female database, although others may want it. 

I would like to see a few news items around womens' football pop up though, with Balon d'Or and other news items, like Female player of the year etc. 

 I know it's a lot of work. But I think it would be time well spent. And womens' football has grown immensely in the last few years. 

To be honest, that is not something I would support. If SI are going to include women's football in FM, they need to do it whole-heartedly. Occasional media pieces saying that "Lieke Martens has won the Women's Ballon d'Or" or "Scotland have won the 2031 Women's World Cup" would be nothing more than token gestures.

Basically, what Barside has just posted.

[Smurf]

1 minute ago, N^G said:

is that the interest really isn't there.

 

The interest ins't there for you. 

Read the link I posted above. It shows a steady growth from 2013 - 2017 and an even bigger growth in 2018. 

I guess this forum is mostly male based, so ask a bunch of males if they want a female game and they say no.

We're asking the wrong people, we need to be asking women if they want it - and if they want it it should be added. 

This thread is going nowhere, asking the wrong people.

[Smurf]

3 minutes ago, CFuller said:

To be honest, that is not something I would support. If SI are going to include women's football in FM, they need to do it whole-heartedly. Occasional media pieces saying that "Lieke Martens has won the Women's Ballon d'Or" or "Scotland have won the 2031 Women's World Cup" would be nothing more than token gestures.

Basically, what Barside has just posted.

Fair enough. 

I do agree with that sentiment. 

However, I do also think that the database should be playable - I only said I wouldn't make it playable for myself. 

 

I may have mis-spoken on that. (trying to keep up this forum has gone fast paced!)

[forameuss]

3 minutes ago, N^G said:

Which is also the real reason why it would be "preaching social values" if they were to include it at this time, as anyone with eyes can see that the business motivation doesn't tally.

But they won't!  Exactly because of the reasons posted.  Nothing to do with whether it's worthy (it probably is, at its core), but because it would be a poor business decision.  Preaching social values just makes you sound like you hate it purely because it's women, whether that's what you meant or not.

4 minutes ago, CFuller said:

To be honest, that is not something I would support. If SI are going to include women's football in FM, they need to do it whole-heartedly. Occasional media pieces saying that "Lieke Martens has won the Women's Ballon d'Or" or "Scotland have won the 2031 Women's World Cup" would be nothing more than token gestures.

Basically, what Barside has just posted.

Yeah, have to agree with that.  It's got to be all-or-nothing, otherwise it's just tokenism.  So I expect it'll be nothing, for now at least.

[GerdMuller]

No, just leave it out, womans football doesnt have any meaningful influence on the men football world portrayed in this simulation . If theres a future in which a womans football simulator is financally viable, ok offer this as a separate product.  Having  this fanbase pay for it doesnt make sense and risks the bottom line of the product. Maybe if you think moneyy cn be made , i rather doubt how much the market generates, try it and make a small team that can offer a purchasable exrafile for FM Touch and see if you can go further from there. I think Football Managers are already a niche market and the female football world is still a niche within a niche and hard to make money with. 

[Smurf]

I do get random news drops about who won the Brazil leauge, and who won European footballer of the year, and because I'm Irish I get the news drops about the Irish league, players and national teams. 

Typically when playing FM I turn off all news drops in relation to leagues/players/cups/nations etc. as there's too many news items. 

And typically, I would turn off news items surrounding female news notifications too, if it was in the game. 

And I put the south american leagues in but non-playable too - and I presume with this feauture I could put in the Womens leauges and have them non-playable too. 

 

As whether it's a good business decision for SI is what's really being talked about here. 

I think it would be worth it in the long run.

And I hope some day they can include it. But I don't htink I'll see it any time soon.

[GerdMuller]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Smurf:

The interest ins't there for you. 

Read the link I posted above. It shows a steady growth from 2013 - 2017 and an even bigger growth in 2018. 

I guess this forum is mostly male based, so ask a bunch of males if they want a female game and they say no.

We're asking the wrong people, we need to be asking women if they want it - and if they want it it should be added. 

This thread is going nowhere, asking the wrong people.

 

And yur thinking is wrong too. I am not saying that people maybe dont want a female based FM , and the sexist part is more on you actually if you think woman alone like that area of the game. But it still is a very small market and growing in a very small market still brings you to ..small.  Trust me i want a lot of games too, i hated when i couldnt play nHL on the PC anymore , when there wasnt great Hockey manager etc etc. But i always heard, well its the market we have to respect , our jobs need to be paid. And to be realistic as much as a manage rof that kind would be a nice addition for ALL sexes ;-) i just dont see it as a viable option for the main fanbase that financially support FM. Not saying that in the future this couldnt change, but get on that train and risk your money and your product when its there.

As you are saying yourself you are the typical FM player and would rather ignore a woman news item in the long run, and thats exactly how it is, and i agree maybe it changes ..react and make money then and dont burn it on politically correct features now. TBH woudl you really like to pay a tenner more if it was included and other great new features left out. NO? So do ntmost of the peple that  buy FM.

 

And basically we do ask women via the market if they like the game enought to pay for SI making an adoption of it...we even ask men ... ;-) and i dont see it...All women i know the the footballing skill or bas of Ronaldo first , then soem like womans football too, and maybe one day the market will be viable. Far from it today.

[Guest]

Will be interresting to hear of any demand for it in Germany as based on the status given to the Women's game it is the most likely country with a potentially sizeable enough consumer base & even then the domestic attendances are tiny.

[N^G]

1 minute ago, Smurf said:

The interest ins't there for you. 

The interest isn't there, period.

 

1 minute ago, Smurf said:

Read the link I posted above. It shows a steady growth from 2013 - 2017 and an even bigger growth in 2018. 

It's a fad for a few people while it's being pushed hard by the likes of the BBC. Turn's out that it's not even that big of a fad. We will see what happens going forward I guess.

 

1 minute ago, Smurf said:

I guess this forum is mostly male based, so ask a bunch of males if they want a female game and they say no.

Yes, I totally forgot about all of those female football forums all over the internet clamouring for a football management game, its exactly what they've been missing out on in life.

1 minute ago, Smurf said:

We're asking the wrong people, we need to be asking women if they want it - and if they want it it should be added. 

This thread is going nowhere, asking the wrong people.

It's the wrong place to ask regardless, everyone here is more or less an existing customer either past or present, therefore the perspective and context of response is very much within an in-group silo.

[Smurf]

4 minutes ago, GerdMuller said:

As you are saying yourself you are the typical FM player and would rather ignore a woman news item in the long run, and thats exactly how it is, and i agree maybe it changes ..react and make money then and dont burn it on politically correct features now. TBH woudl you really like to pay a tenner more if it was included and other great new features left out. NO? So do ntmost of the peple that  buy FM.

That would be like saying there's no interest in the Brazil league just because people choose to have no news notifications at all. But others make different choices in what news items they want. Anyway, it's neither here nor there. I'm not saying to add it to the game because I want it, I'm saying add it to the game because women's football is getting more popular and it should be represented in game.

Why would it be a tenner more, they add new features all the time and the price remains the same? 

 

3 minutes ago, N^G said:

The interest isn't there, period.

But it is - there's people making women databases and sharing them. I posted a link earlier on how womens football is growing year on year. There's even a plan by FIFA to grow the womens game. It's available online. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, N^G said:

It's a fad for a few people while it's being pushed hard by the likes of the BBC. Turn's out that it's not even that big of a fad. We will see what happens going forward I guess.

I don't know how a fad has lasted since the 1900s. And the last 10 years there's been a huge push in womens football. To call it a fad is an insult and ignorant.

3 minutes ago, N^G said:

Yes, I totally forgot about all of those female football forums all over the internet clamouring for a football management game, its exactly what they've been missing out on in life.

If you look you will find them. 

3 minutes ago, N^G said:

It's the wrong place to ask regardless, everyone here is more or less an existing customer either past or present, therefore the perspective and context of response is very much within an in-group silo.

That's what I said. 

 

[GerdMuller]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb Smurf:

Well equally your stats are meaningless as you don't know the percentage of female football managers, nor do you know the percentage of female football manager players that would like to play a version with a female database. 

Equally both of our stats are inept. 

 

Meistertrainer forum in Germany made a database down to German tier 7 and it was awesome, so if dedicated players that like female football are thta interested they should be free to create such database maybe gettting help from Si to define male/female attributes and speech files in FM. But thats the most i would cater to that niche. As i siad FMs future i also dont see to make files avalable to such deep league tiers realistically either, while there would be a proven market even thta compares as proven by the interest for such a file. But as main part of the product it just is a ipe dream and rightfully so, doesnt have anything to do with  ignoring a female fanbase or not enabling girls to play football or anything. And the last job for men is to defend that, if a girl says yeah am not hapy becaus eit isnt in there i would love it and it would really be a nice addition to my experience of the football world. i can say i understand but there arent enough of you , maybe yet to make it a viable option for the market. And she most likely would say yes, but maybe some day, and am am sad its a nice pipe dream. But its just too far from what would make sense right know, you are right.

[GerdMuller]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Smurf:

 

But it is - there's people making women databases and sharing them. I posted a link earlier on how womens football is growing year on year. There's even a plan by FIFA to grow the womens game. It's available online. 

 

 

 

 

And that is awesoem and if that database is downloaded through the roof SI will notice and include it some day , because money :-) 

As i mentioned they worked with Meistertrainer even for the new German language file which is awesome. So basically theres enormous open mindedness form the development studios part for such things and the needs of the fans. So as i said if those databases reach anything in download interest you are imagining SI WILL go for licences etc to reach the market. But no one can see that being realistic right now. And meanwhile its totally ok for you and me and the most people to enjoy the FM about the huge still male mostly business about professionell football. Meanwhile i damit i am still more itnerested in 4th league and further down than professionell womens football and interest so far shows still most players and potential customers are too.

[Crispypaul]

8 minutes ago, Smurf said:

There's even a plan by FIFA to grow the womens game. It's available online.

Well if FIFA have a plan......

[Smurf]

Just now, Crispypaul said:

Well if FIFA have a plan......

Better than no plan.

[SlobaFMB]

Total for women football in the Football Manager series.

[N^G]

2 minutes ago, Smurf said:

But it is - there's people making women databases and sharing them.

So what? I could write some fan fiction about my fav tv show, doesn't mean that anyone wants to read it.

2 minutes ago, Smurf said:

I posted a link earlier on how womens football is growing year on year. There's even a plan by FIFA to grow the womens game. It's available online. 

Cherry picked information that is anecdotal at best

2 minutes ago, Smurf said:

There's even a plan by FIFA to grow the womens game. It's available online. 

I have a plan to win the euromillions on friday, doesn't mean the numbers will come up

2 minutes ago, Smurf said:

I don't know how a fad has lasted since the 1900s.

Oh, I didn't realise tenure was more important than relevance or market value when it came to creating a product. Better add schoolboy level football into the mix given that the Airdrie Schools Cup is over 130 years old.

2 minutes ago, Smurf said:

And the last 10 years there's been a huge push in womens football. To call it a fad is an insult and ignorant.

Don't really understand the push given the quality is atrocious, as evidenced by women's national teams being repeatedly beaten by teenage men's sides. Also, it is a fad, otherwise it would have attained popularity long before now.

2 minutes ago, Smurf said:

That's what I said. 

Just because we disagree on one item, doesn't mean we have to disagree on everything.

 

[Crispypaul]

2 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Better than no plan.

It's also irrelevant if FIFA have a plan or not - I mean they have blind football and Futsal too - as SI will only include women's football if it makes commercial sense to do so.  Currently, it does not.  That could change of course in the future.

[Smurf]

1 minute ago, N^G said:

So what? I could write some fan fiction about my fav tv show, doesn't mean that anyone wants to read it.

Cherry picked information that is anecdotal at best

I have a plan to win the euromillions on friday, doesn't mean the numbers will come up

Oh, I didn't realise tenure was more important than relevance or market value when it came to creating a product. Better add schoolboy level football into the mix given that the Airdrie Schools Cup is over 130 years old.

Don't really understand the push given the quality is atrocious, as evidenced by women's national teams being repeatedly beaten by teenage men's sides. Also, it is a fad, otherwise it would have attained popularity long before now.

Just because we disagree on one item, doesn't mean we have to disagree on everything.

 

You're nit-picking and it's ignorant. 

[Scab]

Sure, why not? Seems like a natural expansion for the game.

I'm sure SI can figure out on their own when/if it makes business sense. From my perspective as a player, simulating more of the footballing world than we do today seems like a good thing.
 

[Smurf]

2 minutes ago, Crispypaul said:

It's also irrelevant if FIFA have a plan or not - I mean they have blind football and Futsal too - as SI will only include women's football if it makes commercial sense to do so.  Currently, it does not.  That could change of course in the future.

Definitlely only include it if it makes commercial sense. 

But do the research. Nobody here has any real research into the subject at all. Including (especially) myself.

 

[Smurf]

I guess I don't mind if they include it. I am for it. And that won't change.

[Guest]

I will trust that SI have done the research when crunching the numbers on the commercial viability.

[Smurf]

I get that. 

I just don't get the reaction that it wouldn't be welcomed. 

[Guest]

I think the general concensus is that women's football would be a welcome addition to FM but only if it can essentialy pay its own way by attracting new players to the game rather than giving an additional mode to a percieved minority of existing players who would prefer to manage a female team.

As it's the only possible mertic out there has EA ever released numbers on how many users either exclusively or predominantly play in the female game modes & if there was a correlating increase in unit sales that can be closely attributed to the inclusion of female sides?

[GerdMuller]

The research i did said lower league male players sell more shirts than female superstars still. And the day the commercial sense is there someone will jump on it .I still think FM as the game we see it is should not include womens football its based on the cosmos of male football and its business and the 2 worlds dont really interact in terms of the world you want to interact with. So yes a 2020 FM Womans Football World Edition as a totally seperate game would be a great thing, i think i would not buy it but would be versy happy if it would be  huge success on its own and strenghten the company that makes the game i am interested in. Thts why i think we are still at the point where burning money on this would just be detremental on the main game i care about.

As comparison i dont see it being a better commercial succes as the FM online that bombed and in hindsight i would love that game and even pay for it now when in hindisght i didnt back then. So theres things that would be nice and things that work. Female football FM is still far from it i think.

[alexcelsior]

Or maybe SI could add the structure and let the players do the database and download if they want to play with it. That doesn't cost more money and players who wants to play women football are able to do it by downloading a database. 

[GerdMuller]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Smurf:

I get that. 

I just don't get the reaction that it wouldn't be welcomed. 

That was not here at all basically every addition is welcomed kind of , but theres a tight budget with money and employee resources on every product and if you think what it could and should be used for female players is so far away from the main focus of the game it just is an extra. I think yu say it best when you admit you wouldnt really care for it a lot. Dont think about any imaginary women thta feel exluded because it isnt there. IF those peopel are there their wallets are as big as ours and the need will be adressed. From a development standpoint is till wanted to add to the discussin those would make a lot more sense in a strictly female football world, as a separate game because thats basically what those 2 worlds divided by sex are in the real world. 

But we shouldnt push something that isnt viable , its nice football chnges and gets more diverse as long as female players dont play in the professionell leagues FM simulates a separate game about the separate entity womans football will be the way to go.

This one based on the inner workings of FM would be awesome andthe best basis of course, but in the end if that issue is so important...fund it...i wont and wont fund great effort to put the female football world in FM becuase i se emore important things.

[GerdMuller]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb alexcelsior:

Or maybe SI could add the structure and let the players do the database and download if they want to play with it. That doesn't cost more money and players who wants to play women football are able to do it by downloading a database. 

Yes that would be nice and reasonable just a basic code option that alows players to be identifeid as male/female, then in the league rules define them as male/female league , that would be a coding effort i wpuld accept. There coudl be waesome files bult on it, and as i said if they are a success in being downloaded hugely you can always say..yes we should go that way now too. The cost/effect effort woudl be ok i guess, to just code in a bsic structure for a legaue and players of the other sex and let the community go from there without anymore effort first. I dont need and want it still and would get the people more time on other things, but some things should be tried also sometimes and little effort put into some things that can grow from there or be abandoned again if they dont work without any big dedicatio resource wise to it. So yes why not make a simple female players and leagues options without any big advertisment and licence effort to it. Could be done without great coding effort and if it works push a FM Womans Manger game in the future then. 

As i said of course i would give a great free woman file a try and maybe enjoy it a bit even, but on the other hand if i see my resources going that way i woudl tend to say..please improve other stuff instead. In computer games the best thing to getting things for free is free modding and databases , a basic effort by SI to make that possible i think would be even viable in the context of the current game, but really to test the waters not because someone thinks its PC or something, because i havent seen the massive female players and girl FM supporters base yet that is so narrow minded that its only nterested in womans football even. TBH i think most of female player enjoy the make football world still also over the female one at the moment. Because its mostly about the big entity thta is world professionell football in the amle department. Because this game like the world itself has mostly become of the business football and that is in the big clubs that play male players.

[Smurf]

I turn off news items as it interfers with them being too many. Its not tjat i turn off notifications because i dont like the news item its just too much. At the moment i am managing in germany and i am irish. So i get a tonne of notifications about ireland. I turn off all notifications not directly related to my game.

But i would be interested in a womens team for say Dortmund and news on how they were doing.

That wouldnt bother me. But like the irish league  i dont need to see every notification about an injury to a 2nd division player

[GerdMuller]

Yes thats what i mean it would be nice but not really imortant, because you value other things more , and its those areas the limited resoruces should be focused on. And i am not sexist enough to say women and girls that play FM dont enjoy good tactis and great EA and the immersion in the male football world more than being able to play Sarah and more "shes" in the news items. FM is and should always focus on the important things first. If i play the game i often say...damn i want the AI improved or this and tht i rarely say the fun is spoiled sometimes by not being able to play womens football.  

And i think girls and woman can accept that just for what it is, and what it models. Making the football world more diverse and financially viable for woman they can and will do by going out and playing themselves and most of them will still want to bend it more like Beckham than Martha , but it will change over time maybe and thats a good development. Making products always is and should be behind a bit.

And yes too much things you say: I want that no bothering me too much washes down the main game, so a woman league would totally distracts 95% would have it in the background or off and never really bother.

 

Its too much of things you really dont need or being down well or not at all , so i think interviews are a great par tof the game but annoying as hell, and better switched of as uch as possibl atm, U17 is nice but no one want news items all the time. So imrpove and make the basic elements more fun and think about expanding to other worlds when the basics are working and the other parts are included to be fun.

[forameuss]

32 minutes ago, alexcelsior said:

Or maybe SI could add the structure and let the players do the database and download if they want to play with it. That doesn't cost more money and players who wants to play women football are able to do it by downloading a database. 

The "structure" is what is going to be the problem though.  The data isn't financially draining, as it would mostly be handled by the voluntary researchers (well, each researcher gets a free copy, but I doubt a few hundred quid matters much).  The structure and coding behind it is what would take the time and money, as you'd need to make sure the women's game wasn't in any way linked to the men's.  Sounds simple, but I doubt it would be.  The game will have never been (could be now, but I'd doubt it) coded with a mind to having two distinct "sports" almost in the one package, so you'd need to have that segregation in there.  You wouldn't want to just copy-paste everything and find-replace male with female, you'd want to make sure you weren't reusing code unnecessarily, meaning you'd probably have to extend existing code to handle both.  It's not a simple task, and that's before you even think about putting data in.

44 minutes ago, Barside said:

I think the general concensus is that women's football would be a welcome addition to FM but only if it can essentialy pay its own why by attracting new players to the game rather than giving an additional mode to a percieved minority of existing players who would prefer to manage a female team.

As it's the only possible mertic out there has EA ever released numbers on how many users either exclusively or predominantly play in the female game modes & if there was a correlating increase in unit sales that can be closely attributed to the inclusion of female sides?

This.  They won't do it anytime soon because the market to break even, let alone profit, is likely not there.  In future, this might change, and they may bring it in, but that will only be when it's commercially viable.  This isn't some minor feature they can just chuck in.

[KingCanary]

I'd be interested in seeing it but can see the issues and why SI might not right now.

The idea of people being 'disgusted' by it and not buying the game is insane to me though.

[killershrew76]

On ‎19‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 02:15, ben carter said:

I don't know if SI's stance has changed recently but the last time I saw this talked about I think it was said that the games needs to be regularly pulling in Championship level attendances for it to be something SI would look at.

To be exact I think Miles has said "women's football will be a part of Football Manager when there are ten women's leagues around the world that see average attendances around the same level as the Championship"

That's some poo. The Swedish second division is in the game wich has average attendance of like 24 people!

[forameuss]

1 minute ago, killershrew76 said:

That's some poo. The Swedish second division is in the game wich has average attendance of like 24 people!

To be fair though adding the Swedish Second Division involves doling out a few free copies to some researchers.  Adding this isn't the same.

I'd agree though citing attendances so starkly isn't the way to go, as it'll get people thinking that it's the only aspect coming into the decision.  I doubt that's the case.

[larnson]

I think it would be great. There would be a number of hurdles, particularly around the scouting, but I think that's surmountable. After that, it's basically just the same as adding any other league/competition in, with some new player models for the pitch.

I don't really buy the argument that it will be making it more expensive for players, or that they would end up focusing on this rather than other features - I think the effort expended would not be such that it would detract from other significant parts of the game. Frankly, it's 2018, women's football is growing at pace, and it would be great for FM to help promote that.

I am, of course, conscious that there is something of a difficult past with computer games including women, so it's possible SI might want to avoid such controversies...

[ChelseaSince86]

On 19/11/2017 at 00:33, bassistuk said:

After knowing a few women who play professionally, I like the idea of finally being able to manage a women's club. Will we ever see this in future FM games? Other than licensing, is it easy to implement? Or at least provide us the tools in the editor to create women's teams?

As mentioned elsewhere, i think someone from SI said until womens football regularly gets championship level attendances, it aint happening.

 

And IMO, i dont think womens football ever will

[Guest]

Not just someone, that's Miles statement although after the Chinese language fiasco that line could be open for negotiation through a campaign of review & social media bombing.

If enough people really what this then the way to get the publisher's attention has been shown.

[GerdMuller]

I dont really want this enough enough to pay for it , i dont know anyone that does , if there are enough i dont know of thier voice will be heard sonner or later , just spare everyone meanwhile from pointing attention too much on something just because you might think a minority ( i dont even class people especially genders by those terms) might be involved.  I dont also think its a great accomplishment that there a gay flags in the audience or disabled persons, but if it makes peopel happy , as i said as it doesnt need a total change of conceptand huge investment of resources why not. But so long i dont feel discraminated either because i am fat and there are not professionel fat poeples leagues represented :-) I know female leagues are closer to being relevant but they still arent there to be profitable and thats the bottom line. No one is treated unfairly because of looks or gender, its a right sane business decision. Please dont assume anything else in the subtext. Attention is always good though but it is there , just dont force more than there really is to it.