Do you release youth players?

[kornflex]

Hi

This might be the wrong subforum, but since the answers might affect my tactics and training I decided to post here. Feel free to move the subject.

I started my career in Denmark but now find myself in Udinese in Italy on my 5th season. Upon arrival the U20 was swamped with players too old for U20 football and most of the players (or about 50%) was out on loan. What was left was quite an unbalanced and untalented team. The U18 hat talents but the squad was massively crowded. It took me a couple of seasons of offloading never-gonna-make-it U20 players and promoting U18 to U20. Still had a way too big U18 squad though - 40+ players.
I watched some of the other Serie A clubs' U18 squads, and they tend to have only around 20+ players in their U18 squad and that's what I'm aiming for now as well. So do you just offload players if you suspect they don't stand a chance of becoming top league players?
Also, I've upgraded both youth development and junior coaching so I like to just sign all youth prospects in march. Last march I had a low intake - probably due to an already too large squad.

[westy8chimp]

one of the first things I do at any team I take over is sort each squad (main, u23/u21/u18 etc) by value, personality and potential.

I release for free;

If they aren't worth selling i.e. below £1m for a top flight club

AND

they have bad potential (under 2.5 stars)

AND/OR

they have bad personality i.e. 'balanced' or worse...

On the flip side...

If they are worth over £1m ..try to sell (sometimes as 'sell at any value or release')

Anyone 2.5 stars or higher is likely to be a potential signing/loan signing for lower rep clubs ... so chance to sell or loan. And usually good enough to step in during an injury crisis

Players with good personality, can be tutors or just have a generally good effect on the squad i.e. determined or professional

[kornflex]

Thanks.

The main issue is my U18 squad though. Do you release them when their youth contract expires? My HOYD is in charge of signing youth candidates and he always signs all of them, which means my U18 grows too big.

Also, in Italy there are no reserve team and the senior squad has room for 11 subs (which i think should all be filled). Only main squad > U20 > U18. One (1!) over 20 player can play in the U20 in each game, and the U20 and senior games overlap in a way so unused talents in the senior squad substitutes can't play for the U20 (the U20 games are usually a day before the senior game).

[Cougar2010]

16 minutes ago, kornflex said:

Thanks.

The main issue is my U18 squad though. Do you release them when their youth contract expires? My HOYD is in charge of signing youth candidates and he always signs all of them, which means my U18 grows too big.

Also, in Italy there are no reserve team and the senior squad has room for 11 subs (which i think should all be filled). Only main squad > U20 > U18. One (1!) over 20 player can play in the U20 in each game, and the U20 and senior games overlap in a way so unused talents in the senior squad substitutes can't play for the U20 (the U20 games are usually a day before the senior game).

It depends but I would never release them straight away.

Players get at least a year before I consider releasing them.  Generally I just release them at the end of their youth contract if they haven't earned a full time deal by then although if I'm really snowed under I would consider releasing some of the "useless" ones so that the decent ones get more attention.

[stevenvdijk]

4 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

one of the first things I do at any team I take over is sort each squad (main, u23/u21/u18 etc) by value, personality and potential.

 

Im having a similar approach.

1) i will release all players that have 2 stars or less potential

2) evaluate the players with 2,5 or 3 stars on their personality and if they have any specific good attributes (eg. a winger with 2.5/3 potential with already 14 or 15 for dribbling, crossing and acceleration could still become a very usefull player). If they have a very poor personality i would also release them, because normally i will use my older tutor players on the 3+ potentials - so there would also not be space to improve their personalities.

3) if I end up with a small U18/U19 i will look for 3+ potential youth from other clubs an fill in the gaps. especially in the first month after the youth release they are still very cheap. there are cases where im taking some chances once they havent been scouted 100%, or check if they are willing to come for some weeks on test so i can really find out the capabilities.

[kornflex]

Thanks. Your answers are much appreciated.

Which players do you loan out? On one hand I would like my best youth players to play competitive matches. On the other I feel that they are best served with getting tailored training at good facilities. Also, I would like my U18 and U20 teams to be among the best 1/3 of their respective youth leagues. Players too old for the U20 but yet not good enough for Serie A are a no brainer - they go out on loan if I feel they have the ability to improve enough. Players too old for U20 that will never be Serie A players are released and ideally shold have been released 1-2 years ago to free up space in my roster. But what about good U20 players (aged 18-20)?

Do you ever send U18 players on loan? I only do this if i have a lot of talent on one position.

Sorry for keeping asking. It's the first time I manage a team in Italy and the 11 subs and no reserve team is giving me a hard time managing my squad.

[grimness]

Loan them for 100% of wages and it's great for earning some monthly fee when possible. Hoarding players for loaning is what Italian clubs do in real life. You have tons of players who haven't featured for their clubs and spent years away. Eventually some players might develop and raise their value for loan fee or even sale. 

[stevenvdijk]

On ‎08‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 21:53, kornflex said:

Which players do you loan out?

I rarely loan out 4+ star youth players, as i feel that they are better off in my own squads and especially training regimes. Since they often need to have a training focus on the right area i think its better to ensure they get that focus than handing them over to another club. Of course they need sufficient play time at the highest level possible, but i think the 11 sub rule in Italy can help with that - so they can make that occasional 20-30 mins when you are ahead or a full match in a cup game.

If you loan out try to see if the manager of the team the player goes to has good stats on Working with youngsters, Man Management and Judging player potential, as it will help chances of your player becoming actually better at his temporary club.

[jorgvandervloed]

@kornflex

I usually try to have small teams of 18 players for my first, second, and third team. This way you will need your young talented players somewhere during the season due to injuries or suspensions and you won't have to loan them out. The downside of loaning out a players is that you have no control of how they train the player and if they get enough play time.

I think you have the option for the second team manager, or who ever is in charge, to schedule matches for your teams every week or whatever you prefer. 

 

[kornflex]

23 hours ago, jorgvandervloed said:

I usually try to have small teams of 18 players for my first, second, and third team. This way you will need your young talented players somewhere during the season due to injuries or suspensions and you won't have to loan them out.

That's my usual approach and as you mention talents eventually will find their way to the senior 11.

Problem is the structure of the Serie A substitutes and youth fixtures:

• 11 substitutes means I have to keep a rather big roster, say, 25 players (including 3 GKs) which seems reasonable.
• The U18 and U20 fixtures is usually played the day before senior games. So, U18/U20 talents that I would like to feature in the senior substitutes plays the day youth game so I'm sure they will get some kind of football. If I had them in my senior subs (mind you that that is 11 of them) I would usually have better options (a squad rotationer) during a game than a talented youngster.
• The fact that only one (1) over-20-player can play in the U20 games means I always have 4-5 seniors in need of match fitness. They will be the ones I prefer to bring in play as substitutes.

The Italian FA has probably come up with this structure to enforce more talents in the Serie A squad, but to me it seems to make their way to senior football bigger. Grimness mentioned that Italian clubs hoard players and loan them out. I did a little research on this and it do seems like a lot of talent is stranded between U20 and Serie A. I can't see who benefits from this system besides the clubs with finances to keep this going* - definitely not italian talents.

*EDIT: should have wrote "clubs with finances to get this started" as i appears that this (hoard+loan+(sell/keep))-carousel seems to be a rather lucrative business. Strikerless made an experiment in Football Manager (https://strikerless.com/2017/02/18/the-juventus-gambit-why-hoarding-players-can-pay-off/)

[Slabbekoorn]

Thats why SI should give us extra squads. My u19s get swamped too. 

I need an u17 really bad.

[JWVG]

I like my first team squad small and only keep a couple of youngsters with good potential. No second team at all.

Once they are 17-18 they are either good enough to play games in my first team or they get sold. I don't do loans except for players I can't sell immediately.

Saves me time and money and I don't have a lot of unhappy players.

I would say I have around 30 players overall. But I always have a 3rd goalkeeper (very important )

[Jellico73]

I keep my youth players for two years, and play them as often as I can.  If after two years they aren't going to be more than 2 star, I let them go.

YMMV,

 

Jellico73

[Vilmar]

I have released youth players who are 1,5 star or less. But I always try to sell them first. Depending on how distracted I am I do this myself or leave it to the DoF to sell them off. As I'm finishing up my second season and my first season was focused on getting the prizes to my job was save this strategy will shift. 

My plan is to keep youth players at least till they're 18 and then release them or continue with them. Depending on how many players I have for each position I move some to the U23 or release the ones with the least starts and stats (I look at both because Holding is only 2 star but a great backup defender). 

[saintrainhard]

I usually release player with potential below 3 stars. Even I use terminate trials before we offered them contract

[Bigmonkey79]

Broard question which also dictates  sizes of u23 and u18 squads in my case

1st season i release no-one.

For british league with u18, u21 and 1st team... In every pre season all 4* potential players and 3* ability are in 1st team squad. At end of pre season all 3 star ability players are in 1st team squad. I loan out all players who are 3rd choice for a position AND have had their personality tutored to an acceptable level.

All u18 players with less than 3* ability but 4 * potential are put into u21. Any player older than 19 with potential of 4* goes into 1st team squad. 

 

For seasons 2 onwards i want 2 in every position AT THE CLUB in each squad. ( 3rd choice GK always from u21 and i dont count players ready to be loaned.) its then just a case of only signing the best regens from youth intake to maintain 2 in each position.  Then finally to answer your question i allow all 2.5* or lower potential players to be released at end of contract. I will NEVER extend their contracts.  If you've not got enough u18 and 21 players to put out a squad then youre off into the trns market....

Dont get sentimental and release where possible. Depending on squad size you may also have first team plyrs turning out for u 23 and or u18.  Any 5* kids in my club are straight into the first team with make availavle for 60 minutes for u18 and u21s while age permits. Tutor twice, loan 6 months once then integrate into 1st team squad. I do try and set put my team as if potential were the players actual ability. Im certain that an 18 yr old with 2.5 ability and 5* potential is better off playing than a 3* player. Dont waste game time on dead wood!

[JavierChicharito14]

I usually sell/release young players when they are over 20yrs old . 

If they have some potential but do not work out in my team  , I will add buy-back price. 

[布米粒爱生活]

I only keep an eye on protential young players (4-4.5 stars), others will be released when the contract is over .