Defending in FM2014

[Guest]

I hope update us this week for defending despite what mods say the game is simply unplayable and the defending is worse than sunday league I also know shooting is a problem as my players shoot like goal is a mile wide I have boycotted it till they sorted out so far I am dissapointed with that but I feel it will be fixed

Any chance you could boycott this forum till it is updated too? You're in here every-day moaning about the same thing, this is a tactical discussion forum not a moan endlessly about the same thing forum. I think that forum is called the General Discussion forum.

[Cleon]

I can understand peoples frustration as they have paid for a complete game but I do like gameplay and I do know si are quick to fix...there bound be issues just got be patient

Enough is enough now. We know there are issues but stop posting about it in every single thread. This is not the first time a mod as told you about this either. If I see moaning in here again about the same thing I'll give you a few days off the forum.

[Keniris]

be careful what you wish for, I predict after the next patch defending will be so good everyone will start complaining about attackers not being able to score any goals :-)

[Cleon]

be careful what you wish for, I predict after the next patch defending will be so good everyone will start complaining about attackers not being able to score any goals :-)

We'll see the return of the super keeper threads :(

[Keniris]

don't get me started on those :-). It may be better if I already buy a back-up mouse and keyboard just in case the urge to smash things cannot be suppressed.....

[Guest]

be careful what you wish for, I predict after the next patch defending will be so good everyone will start complaining about attackers not being able to score any goals :-)

I think some people are hoping for a happy medium where their defence is great and the ai's defence is terrible.

[brado009]

I was getting killed as a Skrill Premier Team using FB's. Switched to a 3-5-2 on road against a better club with Standard, Balanced, Stand Off Opponents and Play out of Defense and I had more SOT and equal possession and drew 0-0. Next game I started with 3 DC's and 2 WB's and got torn apart. Then switched back to the 3-5-2 and defense played better and kept it at the same 3-0 scoreline (still a defeat). It's only 2 games, but man is it hard to play with FB's.

[CityAndColour]

A couple of things I've tried that have seemed to work a bit better, from posts in this forum:

1) Changed my fullbacks to wingbacks on defend duty

2) Use a team shout of 'stand off opponents' and close down individuals using opposition instructions.

Not perfect by any stretch but it's an improvement.

This lasted about three games!

Have tried to re-create a tactic I had huge success with on FM13. Using three CBs (all on defensive duty, no special roles), two wingbacks on automatic and a DLP(d) and CM(s). Control/fluid with the shout 'hassle opponents'. Seems to be doing the trick so far, with only one goal conceded in three.

Strangely it seems to have lessened the amount of crosses coming in against me, despite only having WBs as my width

[xNAMOz]

Fullbacks are the problem, they play the opp strikers onside and even with me telling them to close down tight mark or tackle hard they are too passive. The only thing is to play 3 CB's now till it is fixed.

This might not be a problem with top tier clubs though? I play lower leagues only I refuse to manage a top club.

[vikingarrow]

Just managed to ruin my mouse.. SI please fix this before something else goes to pieces

[Kevinmatt]

My defending has been bit better than I first thought,but thats risks for you!

Screenshot belows start of premier league

[bababooey]

I think what we're seeing is this:

If you've got a big club like the person above this post, Man Utd, you can probably cover up for a lot of the defensive issues. Also, most of the big clubs are likely to play with dual wide men. So if you're playing with a team like Inter (like I am) that relies more on lone wingbacks, this is probably where we see more of the trouble because they have less help than do the teams with dual wide men. That being said, obviously if you set two IF's to attack, your fullbacks probably arent getting any help anyway but still, bigger clubs should be able to overcome what we can call "defensive woes."

The biggest thing about defending has been, in my experience in multiple saves thus far, that defenders are simply either: too aggressive, or too passive. I've seen defenders get skinned often against poor opposition, and defenders also allowing opposition to just blow past them. It's like there need to be a balance, you know? Obviously OI's and team/player instruction have an impact, but in general if you leave things along you can get a good idea of what's going on.

Here's a good example. I was recently playing Inter v Roma. Roma used Ljajic on the wing, and he completely murdered my right full back Jonathon. Now Jonathon is really a wide-midfielder by trade, but he's quite capable of playing fullback, and honestly what I saw just wasn't realistic. We wanted to stand off Ljajic because of his technical skill, and he still blew past us. We then wanted to try to close him down, and he just danced around us. There was no way to stop him really.

Another example, same match as above. Gervinho on the other flank. We've instructed to show him onto his left foot, as he is a right footed player and we didn't want crosses into Totti. Often times this worked for a second or two, but ultimately because my fullback (Pereira) wasn't properly defending and closing down, Gervinho would still get them off. Luckily none of those crosses harmed us, and he got subbed off after a below-par performance.

Both my fullbacks finished that match with a 7.0 rating, but their defending was atrocious.

I also had a game where, against Atalanta, one of my CD's was approaching their striker (Denis) and what happens? Denis waltz's right through him. Literally through him like you'd see on an old video game like a ghost! Easiest goal ever. And that was particularly upsetting because Atalanta for whatever reason are dominating in Serie A and we were underdogs for the match. That goal was a massive blow.

In general I've just seen so many frustrating things from my defenders.. Samuel passing back to the keeper, but hitting the ball short so the opposing striker steals it and scores. Rebounds off the woodwork not being cleared. Defenders literally just staring at the player not moving, despite asking the team to hassle opponents and get stuck in.

I love FM14, I really do. But this stuff with defense is EXCRUCIATING.

[Bluenosebear]

Doesn't the AI's defence have the same issues?

I'm assuming it does as I get a lot of high scoring games just now ergo surely as long as your set up well going forward the match engine should even itself out for both sides until its been tweaked.

Yes its annoying but its nowhere near as bad as people are making out. I'm actually excited about some the attacking play I'm seeing at the moment

[papamogl]

The only thing I'm missing from this thread is any tactical advice on how to actually improve your teams defending

I'm playing with Dortmund, and including the preseason games I have conceded 16 goals in 21 matches. Which is 0,76 goals per game. Counting only competitive matches (league, cup, champions league, and super cup) it is 13 goals conceded in 13 games with 3 clean sheets so far. I'd say these stats are quite ok, eventhough there's room for improvement.

I'm playing with 3 DC, the center one as a stopper, the outer two as plain defenders. My wingbacks are very attacking minded. No DM employed, since the stopper acts as kind of a retreated DM. The d-line is pushed high up the pitch and I'm playing the offside trap.

Playing with 3 DCs is a good idea to give your fullbacks/wingbacks some extra support, and for me this works well. So if you encounter problems down the flanks (check where most of the opponents attacking passes take place), it might be worth a try to pull your DM back into the DC position and instruct him to press aggressively. This way the two outer DCs can support your fullbacks/wbs, while the retreated DM steps out of the d-line to press if the opponent attacks through the middle.

[lewis999]

Has anyone tried "tighter marking" in the team instructions? If so does that help any? Also does anyone have the faintest idea on how long it will be until the update? Next week? This month? Christmas? I know the moderator's don't know but any educated guesses? Gonna give 3 at the back a go and see if it works.

[RTHerringbone]

Has anyone tried "tighter marking" in the team instructions? If so does that help any? Also does anyone have the faintest idea on how long it will be until the update? Next week? This month? Christmas? I know the moderator's don't know but any educated guesses? Gonna give 3 at the back a go and see if it works.

All we know from PaulC's last comment is that a version of an update is being tested by their testing team at this moment.

That means that something tangible is in the pipeline, but everything depends on the success of the testing.

[servognome]

Similar to papamogl's tactic of playing 3 CD's with one as a stopper, I've been using a HB. It pushes the CD's out a bit to provide cover to my FB's

[Marc Albrighton]

Pretty much 90% of the goals ive scored and conceded come from set pieces or wide play.

[kubo]

Doesn't the AI's defence have the same issues?

I'm assuming it does as I get a lot of high scoring games just now ergo surely as long as your set up well going forward the match engine should even itself out for both sides until its been tweaked.

That's correct. You can obviously get good results from tailoring your tactics to the faults in the ME, but not all of us likes to do that.

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2014-discussion/145744-football-manager-14-match-engine-survival-guide-painfully-long.html

[pazmacats2]

If you want to moan in a constructive way then use the feedback threads. Keep the threads in this forum for helping and discussing things rather than moaning, this forum is not for that. Let's keep all the threads in here for those who want help or want to share how something works etc.

It's hard to share how something works etc. if it's not working.

[Guest]

So, after reading through all of this, it seems that playing with 3 CB's and a defensive mid is more successful than having FB's or WB's.

Are there anyone with any success on a tactic that emphasize 3CB's + DM that still hold its own on the attack?

I believe the rant about the FB's/WB's have reached a skyhigh, and of course SI is looking into it - they also fixed FM13.

So lets just focus on finding a temporary solution instead of pointing out where all the fault is.

Also remember that a team needs pre-season + 3-4 league games to start getting used to a tactic. And if you then before that time, keep switching tactics around, you just prolong the time it takes for the players to get used to tactics.

I'm not a master of FM, but I've done alot of digging into it.

PS. There is no 'one' super tactic - As FM becomes more and more advanced, you need to adress player position, philosophy and team instructions on a game-by-game basis or the AI will simply put, eat you up.

[savagepenguin]

Slowly losing patience with the comedy of errors that is the current match engine. Has anyone else noticed an insane amount of terrible backpasses straight to the opposition striker for an easy tap in?

[Guest]

Slowly losing patience with the comedy of errors that is the current match engine. Has anyone else noticed an insane amount of terrible backpasses straight to the opposition striker for an easy tap in?

Well, if everyone just wanted to mention all the errors the ME makes, or describe the bugs, this thread would quickly fill up.

But there is no point - SI are working on a fix, and with help of the community and their PKM's they're working as dilligently as they can - I am sure.

It was the same last year right after launch - no game is perfect, but they are working to fix errors and bugs at least.

[RTHerringbone]

Well, if everyone just wanted to mention all the errors the ME makes, or describe the bugs, this thread would quickly fill up.

But there is no point - SI are working on a fix, and with help of the community and their PKM's they're working as dilligently as they can - I am sure.

It was the same last year right after launch - no game is perfect, but they are working to fix errors and bugs at least.

Thanks for a welcome dose of positivity. The ability to see the wood for the trees is what separates this part of the forum from some of the mindless vitriol in General Discussion.

[bababooey]

A little more about defending in my continued journey with my first year at Inter..

Teams in Italy love to pack the middle of the pitch (shocking right?...) specifically smaller teams LOVE to do this, as it is the only chance they have against tougher opponents. I just played Bologna, for example, they lined up a 3-6(2AMC)-2 formation and completely dominated possession. We created 4 CCC's, knocked in two goals, and still managed to blow the lead.

Normally I would say: okay, I messed up and didn't adjust according to what was happening but in this case they didn't change anything. We were up 2-0 going into the latter portion of the match, and finally all of their possession turned into goals. Albeit one of the goals was complete BS, but still. Check out Bologna's pass chart (mind you this was a home game for us...)

The issue here is that there is no way to break up that kind of passing without drastically altering my tactics, which I don't want to do. Bologna are a crap team to be fair, yet they pass the ball around like Barcelona. I've tried possession tactics with Inter, and despite having better passers than Bologna, we rarely if ever played like that!

The most frustrating thing is that we played pretty attacking to begin with. We exploited the flanks, got stuck in, hassled, and pushed higher up. The idea was to diminish any space for them to work in. The result? Didn't matter. Offensively we we're okay, our passing was crap, but we created 4 CCC's so I can't complain too much but we never had control of the match because they just held onto the ball forever.

How is anyone going to break up that kind of passing if my Inter team cant? Mind you we used a deep 4-2-3-1 with a great ball winner and quality defenders.

[Defensive]

With the new update i still cant keep a clean sheet. :-( Any experiences with the update that could help me?

[Steve Odom]

With the new update i still cant keep a clean sheet. :-( Any experiences with the update that could help me?

Create a new tactic if you've given your team instructions to battle the ME problems pre-patch. You'll most likely have some settigns that draw defenders out.

[iMan]

I haven't conceded since the update. Like 6 or 7 games.

Defending seems much better.