Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

[TSH]

Finally, someone with a bit of sense around here.

Yeah, much sense. We should all thank him for explaining the obvious and actually accept this situation as normal.

Thank him for his major insight.

[Keyzer Soze]

.. no suggestions for his tactic??

[video=youtube;IjSk9krYg5U]

[Target Practice]

We should all thank him for explaining the obvious and actually accept this situation as normal.

Right, it might be because I haven't slept yet and my sarcasm filters are a bit screwy, but if I'm 'explaining the obvious' in my posts (IE that FM13 is a necessary sideways step due to the pressures of a yearly cycle), yet your tone indicates that you're not happy with the situation as it is (presumably that FM13 isn't a marked improvement on FM12), what exactly are you expecting to happen?

[PinkYoshi]

I don't disagree, and I'm not trying to blindly defend SI or FM13 - more trying to put a little perspective out there for the 'OMFG WE R PAYING FOR BETA' brigade.

In any situation where you're going from a well-tested and thoroughly honed but slightly dated system to a newer and more powerful, but still somewhat raw and unrefined system there are going to be teething troubles, particularly in a yearly release cycle where there's only a finite amount of time to build AND test the engine. This is the unfortunate situation FM13 finds itself in - it's the first incarnation of the newest Match Engine, people are adjusting to the change, and doing so in the preferred method of gamers everywhere - by going on the internet and complaining about it.

Sometimes you have to take a sideways step (or even a slight backwards step) to go forwards in the long term. Look at CM4 - undoubtedly one of the weakest entries in the whole series, and probably one of the most bug-riddled as well (remember when clicking your tactics screen up just after scoring a goal made that goal cease to exist? THAT is a major bug, never mind too many long shots! ) - however, it also served as a platform for some of the biggest and best changes in the series, and without it, there's a pretty good chance we'd still be working with text-only commentary. I'm not suggesting FM13 is going to revolutionize the series or anything like that (and nor should anyone reasonably argue that FM13 is as bad as CM4 was at this stage in its lifespan), but perhaps FM13 and the new ME is a 'sideways step' - a short term hit for a long-term gain.

I wish they told me it was a sideways step before collecting the money from me and delivering unfinished product that was backwards from previous engine. Except it was touted as revolutionary engine that fm12 had nothing on with over 9000 new features and improvements.

I would have skipped it then and used the money to pay for working product instead later on, but now im just being bitter and thinking "what if"

[milnerpoint]

I wouldnt bother if i were you target practise.

[Korleone]

I wish they told me it was a sideways step before collecting the money from me and delivering unfinished product that was backwards from previous engine. Except it was touted as revolutionary engine that fm12 had nothing on with over 9000 new features and improvements.

I would have skipped it then and used the money to pay for working product instead later on, but now im just being bitter and thinking "what if"

Well said, man! :thup:point reached

[Keyzer Soze]

I wish they told me it was a sideways step before collecting the money from me and delivering unfinished product that was backwards from previous engine. Except it was touted as revolutionary engine that fm12 had nothing on with over 9000 new features and improvements.

I would have skipped it then and used the money to pay for working product instead later on, but now im just being bitter and thinking "what if"

I wonder...

When you buy a game, let's say FIFA 13 (or any other game), and after a couple of weeks playing the game you come to conclusion that you dont like the game... you go knocking at EA SPORTS doors reclaming the money back?

You had a DEMO to try the game. If you bought it, it was on your own responsability. You don't like it now? poo hoo! Hey, at least the guys from SI are trying to improve the game, and trying to solve the issues that YOU dont like!

[Target Practice]

I wish they told me it was a sideways step before collecting the money from me and delivering unfinished product that was backwards from previous engine. Except it was touted as revolutionary engine that fm12 had nothing on with over 9000 new features and improvements.

Did you not try the demo? Judging by your joindate, you've been playing for at least two years, so by now you should probably have figured out that FM games usually have a few kinks for the first few months. If you didn't, then... well, more fool you for buying something without trying it first when the option was there to do so.

I would have skipped it then and used the money to pay for working product instead later on, but now im just being bitter and thinking "what if"

Wait, so you regret buying a game that will be patched for free by the developers because you could have saved the money to buy the same game later on once it had been patched?

I'll just leave you to have a think about that one.

[milnerpoint]

The funniest thing about all of this is, the release day version is not what people are moaning about, its the latest patch, so even if you only bought the game 2 days ago, you would playing on this version no matter, you wouldnt have saved any money, wouldnt be any better off.

[Korleone]

I wonder...

When you buy a game, let's say FIFA 13 (or any other game), and after a couple of weeks playing the game you come to conclusion that you dont like the game... you go knocking at EA SPORTS doors reclaming the money back?

You had a DEMO to try the game. If you bought it, it was on your own responsability. You don't like it now? poo hoo! Hey, at least the guys from SI are trying to improve the game, and trying to solve the issues that YOU dont like!

first ,I don't like this game because (fm 2013) is not playable, if you want to score goals like this [video=youtube;nLCJWgR-3dc]

, be my guest , and second , I like FM series but this year SI must admit that FM 2013 is not even close by FM 2012 and this thing is not encouraging.

[PinkYoshi]

Did you not try the demo? Judging by your joindate, you've been playing for at least two years, so by now you should probably have figured out that FM games usually have a few kinks for the first few months. If you didn't, then... well, more fool you for buying something without trying it first when the option was there to do so.

Wait, so you regret buying a game that will be patched for free by the developers because you could have saved the money to buy the same game later on once it had been patched?

I'll just leave you to have a think about that one.

i pre purchased it because i trusted the developers words - my first mistake.

and yes, i would have purchased it later on when it had less mistakes. but i didnt. and now im mad at myself and developers for being so naive and expecting a playable product delivered within 3 months of release date, could have spared myself te trouble and not get mad over something i could have not purchased and not experienced the disappointment of playing such an unfinished product

[Keyzer Soze]

first ,I don't like this game because (fm 2013) is not playable, if you want to score goals like this, be my guest , and second , I like FM series but this year SI must admit that FM 2013 is not even close by FM 2012 and this thing is not encouraging.

Nobody likes goals like that? Not you, not me, and surely not SI! And because of that, they are always trying to improve the game, because of that they ask the user from that video to upload the pkm file.

And stop saying that the game is unplayable! Do you have any case of serious Crash Bumps? If you have, than you can say that the game is not playable... otherwise.... is a matter if you like the game or not.

If you like FM2012 so much, why did you buy FM2013? Why didn't you try the demo of FM2013, dont like it... dont spend the money... and keep playing FM2012? Everybody happy!

[Target Practice]

first ,I don't like this game because (fm 2013) is not playable, if you want to score goals like this [video=youtube;nLCJWgR-3dc]

, be my guest , and second , I like FM series but this year SI must admit that FM 2013 is not even close by FM 2012 and this thing is not encouraging.

Thing is, you're looking at an isolated and freak occurrence (and one that happened to me, no less - that's my upload!) - I guarantee if I spent ten minutes doing a bit of digging, I could find an example of something equally crazy and bizarre happening in the early life of FM12.

I'm not saying there aren't issues with the ME. I'm not suggesting that the ME is perfect. What I'm trying to say is that people need to calm down and stop getting hysterical about a few bugs that haven't quite been squashed yet. I didn't really play FM12 all that much, and wasn't here to see, but from snippets I've seen around the forums, I believe there were plenty of complaints about that in the early part of its lifespan too.

FM is one of those games that is prone to bugs - any simulation this detailed is going to suffer from them, and if you can't deal with a few bugs, then just wait six months for the worst offenders to be patched.

Hell, I guarantee you that this time next year there'll be the same arguments. There's going to be people complaining about early bugs and lamenting that FM2014 is utterly broken and that it's nowhere near as good as FM2013, because by the time FM14 rolls round, we'll all be used to playing the hell out of a fully patched and mostly bug-free FM13, and we'll have completely forgotten these bugs.

[Korleone]

Nobody likes goals like that? Not you, not me, and surely not SI! And because of that, they are always trying to improve the game, because of that they ask the user from that video to upload the pkm file.

And stop saying that the game is unplayable! Do you have any case of serious Crash Bumps? If you have, than you can say that the game is not playable... otherwise.... is a matter if you like the game or not.

If you like FM2012 so much, why did you buy FM2013? Why didn't you try the demo of FM2013, dont like it... dont spend the money... and keep playing FM2012? Everybody happy!

It's name FOOTBALL manager not SHEEP manager (that is not football). that ' s why i called Unplayable.

And I bough FM 2013 like I do every year since 1999 , and all I want is that FM 2014 to be much much much better and stop wasting their time with FM 2013 which is already full of bugs

[Keyzer Soze]

Hell, I guarantee you that this time next year there'll be the same arguments. There's going to be people complaining about early bugs and lamenting that FM2014 is utterly broken and that it's nowhere near as good as FM2013, because by the time FM14 rolls round, we'll all be used to playing the hell out of a fully patched and mostly bug-free FM13, and we'll have completely forgotten these bugs.

Universal true since 1994

[Target Practice]

i pre purchased it because i trusted the developers words - my first mistake.

and yes, i would have purchased it later on when it had less mistakes. but i didnt. and now im mad at myself and developers for being so naive and expecting a playable product delivered within 3 months of release date, could have spared myself te trouble and not get mad over something i could have not purchased and not experienced the disappointment of playing such an unfinished product

Sorry buddy, but if you hand over your money before you even have any idea what you'll be getting, then you've pretty much tied your own hands. I love the FM games, but that doesn't stop me waiting for the reviews every year to check out whether there's anything disastrously wrong with this year's effort. I've been burned before with other games, and I learned my lesson. Hopefully, you've done the same, and as it's a game you admit you'd have ended up buying anyway, it's not like you've lost anything.

As for 'unplayable', now you're just being melodramatic. The game is entirely playable, and anyone who suggests otherwise is exaggerating. I've played five and a half seasons so far, I'm sure others have played considerably more. If anyone finds a game with a few minor bugs 'unplayable', then I'm afraid that modern gaming may not be for them.

[milnerpoint]

Hell, I guarantee you that this time next year there'll be the same arguments. There's going to be people complaining about early bugs and lamenting that FM2014 is utterly broken and that it's nowhere near as good as FM2013, because by the time FM14 rolls round, we'll all be used to playing the hell out of a fully patched and mostly bug-free FM13, and we'll have completely forgotten these bugs.

Quoted for truth.

[edgar555]

It's name FOOTBALL manager not SHEEP manager (that is not football). that ' s why i called Unplayable.

And I bough FM 2013 like I do every year since 1999 , and all I want is that FM 2014 to be much much much better and stop wasting their time with FM 2013 which is already full of bugs

So you don't want them to do a hotfix or 3rd patch?

And its not unplayable. If that issue happened in each and every game it would be a game breaker, but it doesn't and anyone who says it does is a liar.

As for the state of the game and forums, as pointed out by others it is like this every year on the forum. In fact I'd say this year there are way less issues than say FM08 which was a total screw up til the final patch. This year unfortunately the main problems surround the ME and they are fairly obvious problems, hence the vitriol spouted but in all honesty the game overall is in a much better state than many other releases. In one way thats a relief, it means they can focus on fixing that without worrying about too much else.

[nbfw]

I think match engine is pretty good tbh

[PinkYoshi]

i guess we have different expectations of what is playable. some find farmville playable too

[milnerpoint]

What has Farmville got to do with anything, oh an its best you removed the part that said "adults enjoy a simluator".

[Target Practice]

i guess we have different expectations of what is playable. kids find farmville playable too

What the hell has Farmville got to do with anything?

Look, I don't mind having a debate about this, but if we're going to do that, at least try and back up some of what you're saying rather than making random references to games with absolutely nothing in common with the subject matter. If you just want to complain about things without actually entering into any meaningful discussion or offering any constructive comeback, just say so and I'll leave you to it.

[edgar555]

i guess we have different expectations of what is playable. kids find farmville playable too

Like I said, if those issues happened every game, it would be unplayable but it doesn't. Is the game great? Not yet. Is it broken and unplayable? No, far from it. Now move along and take your thinly veiled insults elsewhere.

[jasse]

guys, guys, guys, in lot of aspects FM13 is far better, heck, lightyears ahead of its predecessors. however, there are no arguments that the ME needs some more tweaking and working on. SI/Paul admitted as much and gave us patches and fixes already (as a proof to not everything being ok with the game, contrary to what some people here claim). and we all know that SI is working on it. Paul just gave us a heads up the other day. so give it a rest guys. as much as I hate having 68% possession, 28 shots against AIs 3 and game finishing 1-1, i still play it, just hit my 600 hours mark. so, cheer up, relax, things will be better soon.

(hot damn, did I just say all that....???)

[Welshace]

I wish people would realise that this year they have decided to basically scrap the old ME and rewrite it.. the old one had come to a point where it was beyond improving essentially.

It's the equivalent of a developer using a whole new graphical engine and expecting it to be as polished as the last one which had 10 years development behind it.

An example:

Counterstrike Source, it has a great engine.. balanced and fair .. and it worked... but it had gone as far as it could.

So with Counterstrike GO which came out last year, they went with a whole new rewritten up to date engine, starting from scratch.

It's nowhere near as polished, game mechanic wise, as CSS .. but no-one expects it to be, bar the usual miserable moaners, which is to be expected... these things take time..

Same goes for FM13.

[wez007]

I still see this thread is going round and round in circles

For those wishing to bash SI and compare games to hype I suggest you go pick up a copy of last years Duke Nukem...

[milnerpoint]

I still see this thread is going round and round in circles

For those wishing to bash SI and compare games to hype I suggest you go pick up a copy of last years Duke Nukem...

God dont wish that on anyone!!!

[wez007]

The most horrific remake of all time.. since someone decided to do Titanic 2 that is

[Tempest1967]

I think a lot of people need to check out the word 'perspective' and move on a bit here.

Personally, I do think there is a bigger problem with the game this year, but I also believe that SI are doing their level best to fix a lot of the problems aired.

Is this good enough? Yeah, I think it is, considering the ongoing success of the game year in year out, so I'm able to give them a bit of slack this time around.

Is it unplayable? No, it's not unplayable. When people use this term, I think they're meaning that the bugs/problems are too great, in their opinion,

for them to enjoy it to a suitable degree.

There's also little to be gained from sniping at fellow users, but I guess there are a lot of frustrated people out there and feelings seem to be running high on this one.

That's where 'perspective' comes in.

[Target Practice]

I wish people would realise that this year they have decided to basically scrap the old ME and rewrite it.. the old one had come to a point where it was beyond improving essentially.

It's the equivalent of a developer using a whole new graphical engine and expecting it to be as polished as the last one which had 10 years development behind it.

An example:

Counterstrike Source, it has a great engine.. balanced and fair .. and it worked... but it had gone as far as it could.

So with Counterstrike GO which came out last year, they went with a whole new rewritten up to date engine, starting from scratch.

It's nowhere near as polished, game mechanic wise, as CSS .. but no-one expects it to be, bar the usual miserable moaners, which is to be expected... these things take time..

Same goes for FM13.

This, pretty much is my entire argument. Just better worded and with a good example.

I think a lot of people need to check out the word 'perspective' and move on a bit here.

Personally, I do think there is a bigger problem with the game this year, but I also believe that SI are doing their level best to fix a lot of the problems aired.

Is this good enough? Yeah, I think it is, considering the ongoing success of the game year in year out, so I'm able to give them a bit of slack this time around.

Is it unplayable? No, it's not unplayable. When people use this term, I think they're meaning that the bugs/problems are too great, in their opinion,

for them to enjoy it to a suitable degree.

There's also little to be gained from sniping at fellow users, but I guess there are a lot of frustrated people out there and feelings seem to be running high on this one.

That's where 'perspective' comes in.

Spot on, sir. Spot. On.

[Keyzer Soze]

I think people confuse a bad ME with a good ME that have some bugs/issue not well balanced.

If you want a good example of a bad ME... go on and check out videos on youtube for Fifa Manager 13 gameplay.

[Kriss]

I still see this thread is going round and round in circles

I said that over 3 weeks ago I assume a lot of people don't read what's gone before.

[wez007]

Its every other page so dont have to look far

[milnerpoint]

To be fair tho, reading this thread all the way through would give most people an aneurysm.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

%@#$@#@!

I am done until the next patch is released. Being a *huge* favorite is now a ridiculous struggle.

Here is an example. I'm the OVERWHELMING favorite going into this match as Woking FC vs Bassingstoke in the Blue Square Bet South (i modified the db to drop Woking down to the BSS so I could start with them).

http://chattypics.com/files/LONGSHOTS_zw1un93tnu.jpg

Woking vs Bassingstoke

Shots: 26 vs 8

On Target: 10 vs 0

Look at the graph showing all my shots in that game. There are about ~18 long shots from outside the box vs 8 in the box.

Meanwhile EVERY SINGLE PLAYER has Long Shots set to Rarely + Work The Ball Into The Box touchline shout is used.

It's ridiculous. It's like this almost every single game.

Sad to say the "huge favourite" thing has been an issue for me for sereral years now (FM13 no worse than any previous). Posts that say this get mocked by the "experts" but I find it hard to believe that FM'ers who constantly achieve up to and above expectations suddenly fail face with hugely favourable odds. Must be my (our) tactics!.

Maybe someone can explain where I (we) are going wrong.

[jasse]

Just slam on the brakes and they'll fly right past...

Sad to say the "huge favourite" thing has been an issue for me for sereral years now (FM13 no worse than any previous). Posts that say this get mocked by the "experts" but I find it hard to believe that FM'ers who constantly achieve up to and above expectations suddenly fail face with hugely favourable odds. Must be my (our) tactics!.

Maybe someone can explain where I (we) are going wrong.

what puzzles me most is that AI is totally outplayed by you and still gets higher average rating. that really shouldnt be the case or should it?

[milnerpoint]

Sad to say the "huge favourite" thing has been an issue for me for sereral years now (FM13 no worse than any previous). Posts that say this get mocked by the "experts" but I find it hard to believe that FM'ers who constantly achieve up to and above expectations suddenly fail face with hugely favourable odds. Must be my (our) tactics!.

Maybe someone can explain where I (we) are going wrong.

The issue is, most people seem to think that you just approach every single game the same way, even more so when they come up against weak teams. Surely to god if you see your having that many shots with no success then something is not working out, and before its said, changing long shots to 0 and hitting work into box will not solve everything, you need to think about WHY these long shots are constantly happening with your instructions set like that. Yes we all know the ME has too many shots at the moment, but those stats would worry me big time, what were my strikers doing all game? Why were there not any better options that to have a long shot so many times in one game? What were my midfield doing in terms of movement and passing.

Its never as simple as adjust one slider and see massive changes.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

guys, guys, guys, in lot of aspects FM13 is far better, heck, lightyears ahead of its predecessors. however, there are no arguments that the ME needs some more tweaking and working on. SI/Paul admitted as much and gave us patches and fixes already (as a proof to not everything being ok with the game, contrary to what some people here claim). and we all know that SI is working on it. Paul just gave us a heads up the other day. so give it a rest guys. as much as I hate having 68% possession, 28 shots against AIs 3 and game finishing 1-1, i still play it, just hit my 600 hours mark. so, cheer up, relax, things will be better soon.

(hot damn, did I just say all that....???)

Frankly the only way I see FM 13 as being "lightyears" ahead of FM 12 is in the FMC & FMC skin additions, but they are of little use if I cannot stand the ME! Im sorry to burn a holy relic in front of the congregation's eyes but "I find FM12's ME gives me a more staisfying gameplaying experience than FM13 at present".

Although I have not been accused of this I would like to add that I have never said that FM13 is broken or that we are Beta testers this year but I am finding it easier and easier to sympathise with those that say this subject to one's interpretation of the word "broken".

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

what puzzles me most is that AI is totally outplayed by you and still gets higher average rating. that really shouldnt be the case or should it?

In my experience I get totally outplayed in such circumstances.

Oh I want to go on, and acknowledge Milnerpoints post but this is digressing from the topic...but if there is another thread about this feel free to take me there.

[Target Practice]

Im sorry to burn a holy relic in front of the congregation's eyes but "I find FM12's ME gives me a more staisfying gameplaying experience than FM13 at present".

See, it's statements like this that aren't helping. I can only speak for the posts I've seen over the past few days (although comments from some indicate that there's little new being said), but no-one is treating the FM13 engine like a Holy relic. Even the staunchest supporters of the new engine admit that it has some significant issues in its current form. If you'd actually read any of the 80+ posts on the current page, you'd have noticed this.

I'm not trying to have a pop at you specifically, as you seem fairly moderate in your views, and I can understand why you prefer the FM12 engine compared to the current FM13 engine - horses for courses and all that. However, it's this assumption that both sides seem to harbour that's causing a lot of this - people are assuming that if you prefer the finished FM12 ME to the early-life FM13 engine that you're just bitching, and if you prefer the FM13 engine (or just consider it to have a better potential, it seems) that you're some kind of sheep who unquestioningly supports SI. Neither of those statements is anywhere near the truth.

[Emmeth]

Why don't release this match engine 1326 and 1328 as beta and hotfix for us to test and help with a better ME??

I think this is a gorgoeus idea and I tell this not because of hurry but just because testing betas on wide scale it is always far better than testing betas on a narrow one.

[Herbert Fandel]

I think this is a gorgoeus idea and I tell this not because of hurry but just because testing betas on wide scale it is always far better than testing betas on a narrow one.

I kind of agree with this in theory.

However, this is reality, and for me this thread shows why it could not be released. The changes they have made have not yet resulted in a build they are happy with, as evidenced by the fact they haven't released it. Look at the criticsm they get for builds they are happy with! As ME updates are (technically) not optional, imagine the furore if people were forced to test a build which hadn't even had a SI 'stamp of approval'.

[milnerpoint]

Haha i can just imagine these kinda threads if they did that. Great idea like, i'd love to be involved, but this place would errupt. Ackter would have a brain hemorrhage dealing with it.

[Emmeth]

I kind of agree with this in theory.

However, this is reality, and for me this thread shows why it could not be released. The changes they have made have not yet resulted in a build they are happy with, as evidenced by the fact they haven't released it. Look at the criticsm they get for builds they are happy with! As ME updates are (technically) not optional, imagine the furore if people were forced to test a build which hadn't even had a SI 'stamp of approval'.

Of course even a good ME release will have some negative feedbacks but sharing now a beta will reduce them a lot in a later stage.

Doing that SI will also prevent late night meetings to fix in a urgent way what the latest patch missed or created.

[Herbert Fandel]

Of course even a good ME release will have some negative feedbacks but sharing now a beta will reduce them a lot in a later stage.

Doing that SI will also prevent late night meetings to fix in a urgent way what the latest patch missed or created.

But SI have already identified bugs, or at least flaws, in the ME build they are currently working on, as they haven't released it. If they released it the feedback they get would surely just be related to that, and in any case, any other flaws may be altered by the knock-on effects of changing the ones they know about. As I understand it, the knock-on effects are potentially huge and incredibly sutble, and are the main factor obstructing fixes to the 'broken' ME.

will we have the hotfix today?

Firstly - noone knows until it is released

Secondly - hotfix for what?

[scooby2008]

Firstly - noone knows until it is released

Secondly - hotfix for what?

For the hotfix which includes ME1326-1328 changes!

[Herbert Fandel]

For the hotfix which includes ME1326-1328 changes!

Well back to the no-one knows answer then, they seem not yet happy with 1328 (assumed by the fact it isn't released yet), so will presumably release 1329 or later when they are happy, and no one knows when, even the mods

[scooby2008]

sorry for my question, but did anyone from SI say that they weren't happy with 1328?

[Keyzer Soze]

sorry for my question, but did anyone from SI say that they weren't happy with 1328?

Not exactly.

PaulC said that at the moment they are at ME1328, and still testing. If they will be happy after the tests, they'll release ME1328... if not, they could go to 1329 or 1330 or whatever, untill they are happy to release it.

[Emmeth]

Hmm..I do not think they already have a " final " ME release, considering the patch will be out roughly a week after January 31st I assume the ME is still far from its final release stage.