Understanding Your Tactic - The Discussion

[Cider Ed]

This is all great stuff and really making me want to play FM more than is physically posible. Thanks for the reply earlier Cleon. Theres one thing I still cant get my head round though. That is the playing style. I dont really understand what the different styles will do to my team. I suppose I always thought for example of Barcelona as very fluid and Wimbledon (1980's) as very rigid but thats surely passing style.

I currently play 3-5-2 with wingbacks. What will the different styles do to my side. HELP!

[Cleon]

This is all great stuff and really making me want to play FM more than is physically posible. Thanks for the reply earlier Cleon. Theres one thing I still cant get my head round though. That is the playing style. I dont really understand what the different styles will do to my team. I suppose I always thought for example of Barcelona as very fluid and Wimbledon (1980's) as very rigid but thats surely passing style.

I currently play 3-5-2 with wingbacks. What will the different styles do to my side. HELP!

Alter to the different styles and see how it changes the settings you've got selected like in my screenshot on the first page. Then you'll begin to see how they differ from each other.

[Cider Ed]

Alter to the different styles and see how it changes the settings you've got selected like in my screenshot on the first page. Then you'll begin to see how they differ from each other.

Right I See, the only things that really change are mentality and closing down. By using balanced then the roles I give the players have more effect on this. Why is there not much difference between Very fluid and Very Rigid when you would expect the most difference between these styles. I still cant get my head round what the different styles actually do.

For example with my 3 at the back system i just want my centre backs to defend and go up for corners. Im not bothered about them joing in with attacks as I think the best passer amongst them has a passing rating of 5 (I play in the Conf South). This is a rigid style of play? Whereas if i wanted them to start the attacks and perhaps join in from time to time that would be Fluid?

[emil_sbn]

I play a 4-1-2-2-1 with Liverpool.

Team is:

reina

Johnson. Coates. Skrtel. Enrique

Leiva

Stevie. Allen

Douglas costa. Shurrle

Suarez

Problem is i want my front trio utilize their pace and dribbling more.

I play with too ifs and suarez as a dlf/s.

[RTHerringbone]

It is well worth dabbling with a Libero. I felt compelled to investigate after posts by tommonufc and Cleon. I've always been reluctant to consider a back three, but when you consider that most sides employ single striker formations in FM13, it makes sense to have a look.

In the handful of games I have tested the role (playing Badstuber as Libero - insanely "given" to me for £17m by Bayern) I have found that I dominate all aspects of play thus far, principally because I now regard wing backs as midfielders, so three at the back (one Libero) plus five in midfield (two covering the width) is defensively rock solid, but enormously well set up for counter attacking football.

[The Dandy Dons]

I'm having a struggling employing much the same strategy with a 4-2-3-1. I am getting decent results, but I don't think my team is playing anywhere to it's potential and the front 4 isn't really firing. The trequartista (Rooney or Van Persie) and the AML inside forward are playing pretty averagely. The winger is not getting the assists, and I think the main problem is the midfield. THey don't seem to have much of an influence, when I'd rather the fed the AMC (who is also on the periphery just now) or the front men. Anything glaringly wrong with the set up?

[bieritarier]

I'm having a struggling employing much the same strategy with a 4-2-3-1. I am getting decent results, but I don't think my team is playing anywhere to it's potential and the front 4 isn't really firing. The trequartista (Rooney or Van Persie) and the AML inside forward are playing pretty averagely. The winger is not getting the assists, and I think the main problem is the midfield. THey don't seem to have much of an influence, when I'd rather the fed the AMC (who is also on the periphery just now) or the front men. Anything glaringly wrong with the set up?

The AM on support duty will quite often get in the way of your treqartista - the heat map won'T necessarily show it. I've had the same setup basically. You might play a real false 9 and false 10 setup, by putting the AM on an attack duty. That way he AM is more likely to blow past the treq, utilizing the hole the treq leaves by dropping deeper. That said, I could not get this setup to work myself, so now play my AMC as a treq.

I also had mixed success with attacking wing backs in this formation. Alaba for me just bombed forward too often and fired in crosses. You don'T really have anyone getting to the end of them regularly. the AM will not always push up and the treq might still be too deep. also bear in mind that with this setup the IF (Neymar has a tendency to stay wide since the treq (despite dropping deeper) and AM hold the middle already and with Man U you won'T face many teams that allow you acres of space to move into anyway. You can see that on your heatmap - neymar is wider than Nani in terms of avg position. That's something I would watch. I'd try playing Neymar in a support role, this guy is so deadly runing at defenses it's ridiculous and the support role will allow more space. Maybe change your wing backs to full backs with a support duty. They will feed your central players earlier rather than putting in pointless crosses that way. I did it because I wanted them to stop running with the ball so often as well and so far it works out great.

Another problem could be your MC setup. I know many people will recommend this setup and generally there'S nothing wrong with it, but your two MCs will basically stay at roughly the same line. You might be better off with a DLP/D and a CM/S or a B2B midfielder. I am not sure though how this will work out with an AMC that also gets forward a bit and the striker as treq - the 3 of them might get in each other's way too often - you'd need to try it. Anyway, while I'm currently extremely happy with my setup (coming off a 7-0 league win over a dreaded 3-5-2 ) I might setup another tacktic with a Treq striker for the next preseason. Last time I tried I could not solve the AMC+ treq problem, but since then I learned a lot so might have more luck next time.

Ah well

[bieritarier]

Fullbacks

This is one of the more simple views;

Condition – It's important that I can keep a track of the condition as they are expected to get forward a lot. So if it's low I won't play them.

Interceptions – The fullbacks job is to attack and defend so I can keep an eye on how he is fairing from a defensive stand point by checking this.

Passes – I expect them to see a lot of the ball as they are a very important piece of all phases of play.

Passing Ratio – If it's low I'll be able to check and see why and try and sort it out.

Key Passes – This is good for seeing how effective they are from an attacking point.

Dribbles – The fullbacks have to get forward so it makes sense to look at this on the custom views.

Dribbles Per Game – It helps me keep a track of how adventurous they are with the ball at their feet.

Crosses Attempted – So I can see if they are crossing from the byline or cutting inside and passing

Crosses Completed Ratio – If I used a big strong targetman type who relied on crosses then this would be vital.

I tried setting up custom views myself to try and see who in comparison is having the best stats in certain areas. My problem - all of the per 90 minutes or per game stats actually show the numbers from non-competitive matches instead of competitive ones. Anyone else having this issue?

[Cleon]

Right I See, the only things that really change are mentality and closing down. By using balanced then the roles I give the players have more effect on this. Why is there not much difference between Very fluid and Very Rigid when you would expect the most difference between these styles. I still cant get my head round what the different styles actually do.

For example with my 3 at the back system i just want my centre backs to defend and go up for corners. Im not bothered about them joing in with attacks as I think the best passer amongst them has a passing rating of 5 (I play in the Conf South). This is a rigid style of play? Whereas if i wanted them to start the attacks and perhaps join in from time to time that would be Fluid?

wwfan put it best when he said this;

The philosophies are mentality and creative freedom structures. They range from being very structured with low creative freedom, to being very unstructured with lots of creative freedom. A useful interpretation would be as follows:

Very Rigid: Each player is given a job and is supposed to stick to it (usually 5+ different roles across a team)

Rigid: Players are assigned a responsibility that contributes to a specific element of play (Defence, defence & transition, transition & attack, attack)

Balanced: Players focus on their duty (Defend, Support, Attack)

Fluid: Players are given instructions to focus on defence or attack

Very Fluid: Players contribute to all aspects of play

As you can see, each step reduces the level of specialisation. At Very Rigid, you have five different roles, Rigid four responsibilities, Balanced three duties, Fluid two focuses, Very Fluid one method. In Very Rigid philosophies, you expect players to stick to their role, so can assign multiple specialist roles. In Very Fluid philosophies, you expect everybody to do a bit of everything, which means specialist roles are redundant.

[Cleon]

I tried setting up custom views myself to try and see who in comparison is having the best stats in certain areas. My problem - all of the per 90 minutes or per game stats actually show the numbers from non-competitive matches instead of competitive ones. Anyone else having this issue?

I'm not having those issues no.

[Cleon]

I'm having a struggling employing much the same strategy with a 4-2-3-1. I am getting decent results, but I don't think my team is playing anywhere to it's potential and the front 4 isn't really firing. The trequartista (Rooney or Van Persie) and the AML inside forward are playing pretty averagely. The winger is not getting the assists, and I think the main problem is the midfield. THey don't seem to have much of an influence, when I'd rather the fed the AMC (who is also on the periphery just now) or the front men. Anything glaringly wrong with the set up?

I agree with what bieritarier says.

Your striker is dropping deep into space that is already occupied by the AMC, plus you've instructed the AML to cut inside into the same kind of areas. It's getting really congested and stopping them doing the job effectivley. If there isn't enough space to use you'll be pushing the AML outwide and he'll not be cutting in as much as he should and the treq might not be dropping as deep as he should.

While you've tried to apply the same logic as I did in the opening of this thread, the shapes and what they offer are totally different and something so simple like having an AMC in the formation changes the dynamics of the tactic.

[lpcinder]

I have won my first Championsleague yesterday, using the original setup as Cleon used, but with some tweaks. I have started playing a CM instead of the AM-A and put Moussa Sissoko on that position and he's doing alot better than Wilshere right now. I have also chosen My DM to be an anchorman who sticks to easy passes and defensive duties. It was getting way too crowded in there.

My main goal this season is to get Isco play better. I'm thinking of making him more of an inside forward. He's such a great player and it would be stupid not to be able to use him.

So now my team is:

Schzesny

Sagna-Koscielny-Vermaelen-Alaba

Coquelin

Arteta(Ramsey) - Sissoko (Wilshere)

Walcott (Chamberlain) - Rodriguez (Isco)

Damiao (Gameiro)

[lam]

I'm having a struggling employing much the same strategy with a 4-2-3-1. I am getting decent results, but I don't think my team is playing anywhere to it's potential and the front 4 isn't really firing. The trequartista (Rooney or Van Persie) and the AML inside forward are playing pretty averagely. The winger is not getting the assists, and I think the main problem is the midfield. THey don't seem to have much of an influence, when I'd rather the fed the AMC (who is also on the periphery just now) or the front men. Anything glaringly wrong with the set up?

DD,

If I were you I'd spend some time in the SFraser thread. Most of his time was spent playing with Manchester United, with this formation and testings tons of stuff.

You'll find some damned useful information in there.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/275644-The-SFraser-Memorial-Thread-Links-to-all-the-discussions-and-guides.

Regards

LAM

[Cleon]

DD,

If I were you I'd spend some time in the SFraser thread. Most of his time was spent playing with Manchester United, with this formation and testings tons of stuff.

You'll find some damned useful information in there.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/275644-The-SFraser-Memorial-Thread-Links-to-all-the-discussions-and-guides.

Regards

LAM

One of the best threads ever imo.

[vasilli07]

I'm having a struggling employing much the same strategy with a 4-2-3-1. I am getting decent results, but I don't think my team is playing anywhere to it's potential and the front 4 isn't really firing. The trequartista (Rooney or Van Persie) and the AML inside forward are playing pretty averagely. The winger is not getting the assists, and I think the main problem is the midfield. THey don't seem to have much of an influence, when I'd rather the fed the AMC (who is also on the periphery just now) or the front men. Anything glaringly wrong with the set up?

Have you thought of creating the 'central winger' role in your AMC position? His role is a combination of winger, trequartista and advanced playmaker(att). Role will be advanced playmaker but width play is move into channels with roaming on. He will have the license to move around abit more to get involved in the attacking play.

[Cider Ed]

wwfan put it best when he said this;

The philosophies are mentality and creative freedom structures. They range from being very structured with low creative freedom, to being very unstructured with lots of creative freedom. A useful interpretation would be as follows:

Very Rigid: Each player is given a job and is supposed to stick to it (usually 5+ different roles across a team)

Rigid: Players are assigned a responsibility that contributes to a specific element of play (Defence, defence & transition, transition & attack, attack)

Balanced: Players focus on their duty (Defend, Support, Attack)

Fluid: Players are given instructions to focus on defence or attack

Very Fluid: Players contribute to all aspects of play

As you can see, each step reduces the level of specialisation. At Very Rigid, you have five different roles, Rigid four responsibilities, Balanced three duties, Fluid two focuses, Very Fluid one method. In Very Rigid philosophies, you expect players to stick to their role, so can assign multiple specialist roles. In Very Fluid philosophies, you expect everybody to do a bit of everything, which means specialist roles are redundant.

Hallelujah, ive finally got it, cheers. Now ive just got to work out what suits my team best.

On a side note, what skin are you using? The standard white one is starting to get to me

Thanks

[Cleon]

Hallelujah, ive finally got it, cheers. Now ive just got to work out what suits my team best.

On a side note, what skin are you using? The standard white one is starting to get to me

Thanks

No worries

I'm using Steklo skin btw it can be found in the skinning forum

[Cleon]

I have won my first Championsleague yesterday, using the original setup as Cleon used, but with some tweaks. I have started playing a CM instead of the AM-A and put Moussa Sissoko on that position and he's doing alot better than Wilshere right now. I have also chosen My DM to be an anchorman who sticks to easy passes and defensive duties. It was getting way too crowded in there.

My main goal this season is to get Isco play better. I'm thinking of making him more of an inside forward. He's such a great player and it would be stupid not to be able to use him.

So now my team is:

Schzesny

Sagna-Koscielny-Vermaelen-Alaba

Coquelin

Arteta(Ramsey) - Sissoko (Wilshere)

Walcott (Chamberlain) - Rodriguez (Isco)

Damiao (Gameiro)

You thought about him (Isco) being the creative forward like me and Lam use?

[lpcinder]

Yes I tried him in the creative forward position already, but I didn't really like his performances in there. I'm seriously doubting he'll make inside forward as well because he has the "comes deep to pickup the ball" ability and that's what I don't want my IF's to do. I'll keep looking for solutions I guess.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

If I may contribute?

Exploit wings + wingless formations = murder on the dance floor usually. Especially if you play direct.

Here are the three formations I made;

I haven't edited the pictures very well but I'll go through them all the same. The first is a bog standard 4-4-2, now I noticed that it doesn't do anything fancy, in fact results were probably on the tedious side. 2-0, 1-0 a few 4-0's maybe. But it works at home and away. I evolved that tactic to move the ML to AML because England have no left midfielders (Barry's getting on a bit) so I shifted one to AML and kept the right side rather 'normal'.

I personally don't advocate using AM's in normal circumstances because defending is trickier. I've kept a very good defensive record, at least I thought so but I adjust the tactic to man marking because zonal caused errors in a centre-back positioning. In zonal for some reason one cb will surge forward and the other will drop back (kind of like a stopper/cover combo) but instead of moving over and covering the gap they just move back. The result is a simple pass through and CCC usually leading to "oh crap" moments. Since I went with man marking I've NEVER seen that happen again. I also stopped using X-C combos. I stick to D-D now as I find it keeps the line sensible. I have a gut feeling and maybe Cleon will confirm or deny, that an X-C requires very specific and superior mental ability to pull off (I'm thinking antipication and positioning for example?)

That 4-4-2 is Fluid and Standard, switching to control very rarely as I don't feel control is as powerful as it was in FM12. In fact standard is probably safer for me... Also press more and man marking and finally unusually drill crosses as I tend for shorter playmaking strikers. The player roles change fully depending on the player. Richards on the right would be a FB/A for example, it has to suit the actual player but one importance is ALWAYS having a DLP or BWM alongside a more advanced sort of playmaker otherwise the centre midfield just falls in on itself.

The second one is a 4-3-3 and I don't use it unless I'm against the minnows, but it works I suppose! I haven't tested this enough so...

image hosting

That one is my baby. It is silly and downright near exploitative, but perfectly legit. I know some people don't like counter + fluid but I think you NEED fluid to work with a counter formation, because you want the wingers and wingbacks to surge forward and so on.

In FM12 I used to go press more + direct + passing down flanks. In 13 I've actually gone Stand off more and more disciplined creative freedom. Passing is back to default settings and default marking too.

What happens in this formation is the defence stands and tells those messi types "Well, come on then..." and most teams capitulate under it (unless it's messi who probably WILL dribble through the lot of you!)

Depending on how harsh the opposition is, the fullbacks can be switched to defensive as well. The best thing about this though is the way the game is played, it is lovely football, something I've ALWAYS aimed for with counter tactics, it's not just one route hoof ball but actually quite cleverly crafted wing and central play. The AMC drops back and ends up pulling the defence too far forward allowing the FWD to get ahead, the wingers push up with full back support and the DMs slot up into the middle of the park but not too much. The result is yes, there may be huge amounts of space in the middle of the park but where I will get an attack crafted using 4 core players, the opposition will use all 11 and have too many cooks to spoil the broth.

The classic of how it works is shown in this screen;

As you can see the possession is all Spain (no!) but the chances are all mine. To be fair, this will get you a lot of yellow cards playing like this, but disciplined counter attacking football is at least very potent in 13. I went on to draw 2-2 to France (won on penalties) and lost AET 3-5 to Brazil in that world cup, the Brazil lost thanks to a claphazard keeping by Hart. I reckon if he didn't mess up we'd have won that game but that's by the by. France also only got luckily via an own goal.

But enough posturing about the tactic and results(!), I personally maintain that you can build a good solid base to work on in FM, sometimes you need to jiggle around the settings and try and think of things in a more orthodox way. For example, don't be afraid to put people in 'weird' positions like my 4-4-2 with an AML but MR, it can work, in fact it usually baffles the opposition who can't exploit the gaps by the AML because they'll leave gaps themselves but equally they've way forward with the MR blocking that side.

Don't be afraid to mix things up either, if something is BLINDINGLY obvious, do it. No wingers or fullbacks? Easy exploit the flanks. If they're dominating the air, play it along the ground (etc) at the same time, if you can't sort a situation out, do something you wouldn't normally do. Play through the middle of a six man midfield for example, you might be surprised at how easy it is to get past them using that just because they have too many players in one area.

Anyway, hope that provides some food for thought, I'm nowhere near as eloquent as Cleon on tactics, but sometimes, you don't have to be, you just have to find a template that works and refine it forevermore!

[leeturner]

Thanks Cleon, I posted a thread requesting help with my southampton game, and reading through your analaysis seems to fit with what I am seeing in my game, I have recently deviated styles and it has affected my performance levels greatly.

Will have a proper read of this tonight and see how it can help me. But, looks very thorough. Thank you!

Thread : http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/337969-Save-my-season!

[The Dandy Dons]

Thanks, bieritarier, Cleaon and lam. Just finished Uni for Christmas, so I will be giving this a right good go.

[lpcinder]

Enjoy your "quality time" then DD .

[Cleon]

Thanks Cleon, I posted a thread requesting help with my southampton game, and reading through your analaysis seems to fit with what I am seeing in my game, I have recently deviated styles and it has affected my performance levels greatly.

Will have a proper read of this tonight and see how it can help me. But, looks very thorough. Thank you!

Thread : http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/337969-Save-my-season!

Aye I saw the thread but can't really offer any advice other than read the whole of this thread in all honesty

Do you watch games and try and pinpoint issues?

[Cleon]

Thanks, bieritarier, Cleaon and lam. Just finished Uni for Christmas, so I will be giving this a right good go.

Np, I'll be glad to help further if you need it

[engengaifc]

I'm changing duties with the mentality view on and confusing myself. I have two inside forwards and am attempting trial and error to see differences in attack and support. However, when changing my IFR to support his mentality stays the same and the IFL's goes up. Then I change the IFR back to attack and HIS mentality goes down.

So even though I have changed then reverted, I now have two players on different mentalities than they originally had and have no idea what they originally were.

So i tested with the CM and it was the same again but with my inside forward. I'm so confused.

[teejay73]

Cleon, Brilliant thread and thanks for re-igniting my passion for the game!! A quick question, I noticed that in your shouts you use "push higher up", Though by it`s very nature the counter strategy tends to sit quite deep, Does having that particular shout on contradict the counter strategy? So far this has been a brilliant read and with it being Spurs helps me out as I always play with them.

[Cleon]

Cleon, Brilliant thread and thanks for re-igniting my passion for the game!! A quick question, I noticed that in your shouts you use "push higher up", Though by it`s very nature the counter strategy tends to sit quite deep, Does having that particular shout on contradict the counter strategy? So far this has been a brilliant read and with it being Spurs helps me out as I always play with them.

The shouts just makes me push up slightly

[teejay73]

I'm changing duties with the mentality view on and confusing myself. I have two inside forwards and am attempting trial and error to see differences in attack and support. However, when changing my IFR to support his mentality stays the same and the IFL's goes up. Then I change the IFR back to attack and HIS mentality goes down.

So even though I have changed then reverted, I now have two players on different mentalities than they originally had and have no idea what they originally were.

So i tested with the CM and it was the same again but with my inside forward. I'm so confused.

I think you will find it does work as it should, I noticed that as well and it seems to set back to how it should do once you refresh it ie go to the squad page and then back to the tactics screen and all should be well.

[Cleon]

I'm changing duties with the mentality view on and confusing myself. I have two inside forwards and am attempting trial and error to see differences in attack and support. However, when changing my IFR to support his mentality stays the same and the IFL's goes up. Then I change the IFR back to attack and HIS mentality goes down.

So even though I have changed then reverted, I now have two players on different mentalities than they originally had and have no idea what they originally were.

So i tested with the CM and it was the same again but with my inside forward. I'm so confused.

It's a bug with the screens not updating I think, it does go normal if you leave the screen and go back though.

[teejay73]

I see so it adjusts your base def line and not overwrites it. Thanks!

[Cleon]

I see so it adjusts your base def line and not overwrites it. Thanks!

Yeah mate

[teejay73]

Sorry another Q Cleon, Did you incorporate a zonal marking system into your team for season 2 and if so how did it fare and did you use zonal on the whole squad?

[Kamil-S]

Sorry another Q Cleon, Did you incorporate a zonal marking system into your team for season 2 and if so how did it fare and did you use zonal on the whole squad?

With "hassle opponents" your team incorporates tight-man marking and it overrides you default marking system.

[Praha06]

Thanks, bieritarier, Cleaon and lam. Just finished Uni for Christmas, so I will be giving this a right good go.

I am using the very same formation with Man Utd using different roles in the FWD and AM positons. Early days for my side tho so results and performances are sketchy. Let me know how you get on as I can do with all the help I can get.

[lam]

I overwrote my marking system to zonal for all players so that when I used "press more" it remained as zonal.

NO idea if it could have been better but we conceded the lowest goals in the whole of England and only one team in the top Euro leagues had the same as me.... 14 and they scored 20 less goals..... so, very successful, but could MM been better? Who knows.

Though. I tend to use the midfield trio to MM the opposition MC's tightly.

[Kamil-S]

I overwrote my marking system to zonal for all players so that when I used "press more" it remained as zonal.

NO idea if it could have been better but we conceded the lowest goals in the whole of England and only one team in the top Euro leagues had the same as me.... 14 and they scored 20 less goals..... so, very successful, but could MM been better? Who knows.

Though. I tend to use the midfield trio to MM the opposition MC's tightly.

But with hassle opponents shout does it make any difference when you select tight marking in OI? Or if you select standing off in OI with hassle opponents shout?

[lam]

Well.... OI's 'should' overwrite everything. Thus, if you had press more as the shout but had an OI on a specific opposition player saying "stand off" then NO ONE should close him down.

[EuanMarneyW]

I play with a tactic that is almost identical to this, and as Spurs as well. I started off by deploying my usual 4-2-3-1, but it just wasn't working for me as it was too inconsistent. I switched to the 4-1-2-2-1 around early December when I was around fifth place. It's now middle of February and I'm sitting second, having now overtaken my mate who plays as Newcastle, Man Utd and Stoke. The only main difference is that my striker ( Adebayor ) plays as a deep lying forward, as opposed to trequartista. I think the end result is that Bale does not get an absolute goal glut for me, however Adebayor simply cannot stop scoring. There is more onus remaining on the striker to score for himself when operating as a deep lying forward, as opposed to trequartista. He has 32 league goals in around 25 games and his value has sky rocketed to around 18.5m. His good physical stats/speed often allow him to simply turn and break into space at the top of the box, before slamming in a goal. He also gets a lot of goals from low drilled crosses. Unfortunately, I have found Defoe to very limited in this role, much like he would be in real life. He doesn't possess the same link up play, or physical abilities of Adebayor.

I have found this formation to be a slaughterer of the other top teams. It isn't as flashy against some of the smaller sides, as there is less room for the attackers to play into, however, my defence has become near impenetrable and I often cruise to 1-0 or 2-0 score lines against the bottom teams. My only blip in last fifteen league games has been a 0-0 draw to WBA.

The two players who seem to get involved the least, in terms of goals/high rating etc, are my DLP ( Dembele or Lietner ), and my AP ( Isco, or Sigurdsson ). Having said that, I'm a firm believer in ratings not conveying the whole story. Some formations are more conducive to bringing out the best in certain positions, limiting the involvement of others. I've always thought that even if a quality player is averaging slightly under 7, but the formation brings out the strengths in other positions more and you are winning most of your games, then it isn't a given that your lower rating players ( in thise case DLP and AP ) are actually doing a bad job. Its more that they aren't heavily assisting and scoring because others are. Assists and goals obviously being two of the biggest ways of increasing the rating of a midfielders and forwards.

[Cleon]

I play with a tactic that is almost identical to this, and as Spurs as well. I started off by deploying my usual 4-2-3-1, but it just wasn't working for me as it was too inconsistent. I switched to the 4-1-2-2-1 around early December when I was around fifth place. It's now middle of February and I'm sitting second, having now overtaken my mate who plays as Newcastle, Man Utd and Stoke. The only main difference is that my striker ( Adebayor ) plays as a deep lying forward, as opposed to trequartista. I think the end result is that Bale does not get an absolute goal glut for me, however Adebayor simply cannot stop scoring. There is more onus remaining on the striker to score for himself when operating as a deep lying forward, as opposed to trequartista. He has 32 league goals in around 25 games and his value has sky rocketed to around 18.5m. His good physical stats/speed often allow him to simply turn and break into space at the top of the box, before slamming in a goal. He also gets a lot of goals from low drilled crosses. Unfortunately, I have found Defoe to very limited in this role, much like he would be in real life. He doesn't possess the same link up play, or physical abilities of Adebayor.

I have found this formation to be a slaughterer of the other top teams. It isn't as flashy against some of the smaller sides, as there is less room for the attackers to play into, however, my defence has become near impenetrable and I often cruise to 1-0 or 2-0 score lines against the bottom teams. My only blip in last fifteen league games has been a 0-0 draw to WBA.

The two players who seem to get involved the least, in terms of goals/high rating etc, are my DLP ( Dembele or Lietner ), and my AP ( Isco, or Sigurdsson ). Having said that, I'm a firm believer in ratings not conveying the whole story. Some formations are more conducive to bringing out the best in certain positions, limiting the involvement of others. I've always thought that even if a quality player is averaging slightly under 7, but the formation brings out the strengths in other positions more and you are winning most of your games, then it isn't a given that your lower rating players ( in thise case DLP and AP ) are actually doing a bad job. Its more that they aren't heavily assisting and scoring because others are. Assists and goals obviously being two of the biggest ways of increasing the rating of a midfielders and forwards.

It's because the DLP/AP don't get onto the end of the final product so the ratings don't reflect all the hard work done before a goal/assist. As long as you know they are doing the task you gave them though all is fine

[liamgriffiths85]

I'm playing with the same formation and tactics as the Spurs team as well, only with my blue square premier side Wrexham

Currently 5th after 21 games but if my team had converted more chances we would be a lot higher!

Stats of the season so far

Goals 24

Shot Attemps 214

Shots on target 74

Is there anything i can do to try convert more chances? i have Scapuzzi up front who has 12 in finishing and 11 in composure yet only 9% of his attempted shots turn into goals!

Do i need to change the roles/instructions of the team due to being in a lower division and not as good players?

[Cleon]

I'm playing with the same formation and tactics as the Spurs team as well, only with my blue square premier side Wrexham

Currently 5th after 21 games but if my team had converted more chances we would be a lot higher!

Stats of the season so far

Goals 24

Shot Attemps 214

Shots on target 74

Is there anything i can do to try convert more chances? i have Scapuzzi up front who has 12 in finishing and 11 in composure yet only 9% of his attempted shots turn into goals!

Do i need to change the roles/instructions of the team due to being in a lower division and not as good players?

Well I did state in the OP that the tactic was set up for my Spurs side, so I didn't expect it to work for anyone else. It's set up to take advantage of the very high technical side of the Spurs squad. If you're going to use it then use it as a base and change it to fit your own side and take advantage of your squads strengths.

Have you watched games back or used the analysis tab to see the kind of shots he is having?

[liamgriffiths85]

The chances inside the box he gets are mostly headers, the rest are mostly from outside the box

He's got good heading stats as well though, heading is 13, jumping 12

his long shots is only 9 though, perhaps instruct him to take less longer shots but that would involve the team working the ball higher for him to get more clean shots in the bbox?

[Kamil-S]

I'm playing with the same formation and tactics as the Spurs team as well, only with my blue square premier side Wrexham

Currently 5th after 21 games but if my team had converted more chances we would be a lot higher!

Stats of the season so far

Goals 24

Shot Attemps 214

Shots on target 74

Is there anything i can do to try convert more chances? i have Scapuzzi up front who has 12 in finishing and 11 in composure yet only 9% of his attempted shots turn into goals!

Do i need to change the roles/instructions of the team due to being in a lower division and not as good players?

It's not problem of your players - if they good enough or not - it's rather about players characteristic. In my opinion you should look how deep your treq plays, how your inside forwards interact with him and how often your adv.playmaker joins attacks. I've tried this approach with different teams but I always need to tweak roles.

[Kamil-S]

The chances inside the box he gets are mostly headers, the rest are mostly from outside the box

He's got good heading stats as well though, heading is 13, jumping 12

his long shots is only 9 though, perhaps instruct him to take less longer shots but that would involve the team working the ball higher for him to get more clean shots in the bbox?

Look how your mcl-adv.playmaker plays - he probably stays to deep, wingers don't cut inside and your treq has no real support/option.

[Piav86]

Hi guys. I'm reading in the Hough thread that people are leaving all settings at default and using shouts to get the team playing as they wish.

My only concern here is that in match prep familiarities the team are getting comfortable with the default settings, but when you start using shouts say 'retain possession' isn't it changing the settings to shorter passing therefore they players aren't actually playing as per the match prep and so aren't comfortable?

I hope I've explained that clearly! Many thanks.

[Cleon]

Hi guys. I'm reading in the Hough thread that people are leaving all settings at default and using shouts to get the team playing as they wish.

My only concern here is that in match prep familiarities the team are getting comfortable with the default settings, but when you start using shouts say 'retain possession' isn't it changing the settings to shorter passing therefore they players aren't actually playing as per the match prep and so aren't comfortable?

I hope I've explained that clearly! Many thanks.

Not quite sure why people are leaving everything default because the shouts work in conjunction with your current settings. For example if you use direct passing and use a shout that uses shorter passing it changes your direct passing to a shorter version and so on. It doesn't mean you go from direct to shorter passing, it means you use a slightly shorter passing range than you have currently set.

And any changes you make in game won't matter about the familiarities tbh as it's very minimal and not really noticeable, I'd not worry to much.

[Piav86]

That's brilliant thank you. I was assuming that the shouts completely changed the settings. I was worried about alienating the players.

Not quite sure why people are leaving everything default because the shouts work in conjunction with your current settings. For example if you use direct passing and use a shout that uses shorter passing it changes your direct passing to a shorter version and so on. It doesn't mean you go from direct to shorter passing, it means you use a slightly shorter passing range than you have currently set.

And any changes you make in game won't matter about the familiarities tbh as it's very minimal and not really noticeable, I'd not worry to much.

[lam]

The chances inside the box he gets are mostly headers, the rest are mostly from outside the box

He's got good heading stats as well though, heading is 13, jumping 12

his long shots is only 9 though, perhaps instruct him to take less longer shots but that would involve the team working the ball higher for him to get more clean shots in the bbox?

Are you drilling crosses?

I had a TON of crosses and I mean a TON, but only 8 headers last season. Drilling crosses is good for three reasons.

1. It requires less skill on the part of the crosser
   
2. Any of your players can get on the end of them, not just the taller ones.
   
3. Any of their players can get on the end of them, and score and own goal.
   

[lam]

That's brilliant thank you. I was assuming that the shouts completely changed the settings. I was worried about alienating the players.

This is where everyone view of SHOUTS differ. For me, they are 'tweakers', strong ones, but still tweakers. This way if you play a direct game and you get the feedback that your missing easy passes or your shorter passes are working better, then my first reaction would be to use the possession shout rather than lowering passing or messing with tempo.

There are only a few shouts that fully push sliders to the end and that is "hassle" and "stand off". Some others might look like they do, but this normally depends on your starting position of the initial sliders.