A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

[BayernMB]

I get the impression you're intelligent enough to know the difference, I'll just leave it at that.

I do know the difference, but from a practical perspective it doesn't make a difference for me (I don't see any behaviour on my PC, game doesn't work slower, it plays the same) if Steam runs in background or not.

[Guest PW]

I thinkn that Terms and Conditions for FM12 aren't out yet, and I'm certain that you can't apply the ones from previous versions.

The reply was in relation to Steam not FM12.

[BayernMB]

The reply was in relation to Steam not FM12.

Sorry on that one...my mistake.

[Cougar2010]

I do know the difference, but from a practical perspective it doesn't make a difference for me (I don't see any behaviour on my PC, game doesn't work slower, it plays the same) if Steam runs in background or not.

You honestly don't see/have a problem with a 3rd party unconnected with SI or even Sega having control over a game you have purchased?

[SCIAG]

Steam isn't the ideal solution but I think that if EHM was on Steam SI would still be producing it (better than that terrible system called elicense...). I don't think there will be a massive drop in sales though tbh even with Steam.

Why don't SI just release EHM via Steam if that will make a significant difference to sales? I mean, it's a fairly popular game, though not as popular as FM- surely they could make some money from it if they could sell it at a lower rate of piracy?

[pigfacemonkeyman]

SI are genuinely concerned about piracy - it has already destroyed one of their products in Eastside Hockey Manager (RIP )

Was a lack of marketing in appropriate countries a contributing factor at all to the failure of this product?

[americanista]

I love FM i been a fan since 2005 edition. but i hate steam i have no problem verifying my game thats ok but i do not want to be forced to use steam even if is only used one time. i dont want to be forced to use that cra%$# service.

yo amo el football manager llevo tiempo siguiendole el paso lo e comprado desde la edicion 2005 pero esto es el colmo esta bien que quieran verificar el juego estoy de acuerdo con eso esta franquisia merece ser comprada legalmente pero no me gusta ser obligado a usar steam que para mi es un servicio de pacotilla con el cual e tenido muy malas experiencias.

de igual manera me pillare la edicion 2012 pero es es una decepsion.

[BayernMB]

These are the T&C for Steam:

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

The FM2012 ones will be similar to those of FM2011.

By nature I'm quite a sloppy reader, but I haven't found anything scary there (altough I admit that this ling is the first "Terms and Conditions" I've ever read a bit more thoroughly

[Matt_no_7]

OK you dislike it, refuse to download it, no problem - your choice.

I shall, however having seen the uproar on this i may end up buying it anyway when Si and Sega see how many customers they will lose through this. This forum has a very good, diverse cross section of customers. Now from those poles if you imagine before the announcement was made that all those saying "No, i won't buy it!" were going to buy it, Si look like losing maybe 40% of their planned sales. Now that's a massive hit if you imagine that those voting equal's their total customer base (i know it doesn't but hoping you get the idea). I've said it before, we can change a companies mind, EA were forced to back track on Fight Night 4 and give customers a free button control DLC after many refused to buy it and cancelled their pre-orders a couple of years back.

I'm thinking they may back track on this when they see how much they may lose in total sales due to this announcement.

[Guest PW]

Was a lack of marketing in appropriate countries a contributing factor at all to the failure of this product?

FM11 didn't have activation, if piracy was going to collapse the series why didn't it??????

Piracy is an issue but believe me a games company dictating to me that I have to have a 3rd party account, 3rd party software, and that that software has to run the game everytime I play it (offline or online) is a much bigger problem.

[adamstudley]

IMO when SI/Sega are referring to 'piracy' they are not talking about people who will download torrents or such to play the game, as obviously this wont have any effect on them what-so-ever.

The target is casual 'piracy' such as two people living together who share a copy of the game. These people don't look upon this as piracy and it isn't done maliciously. As such with this sytem being introduced they will both have to purchase a copy of the game (which they will more than likely do). This kind of 'piracy' probably takes place an awful lot and would potentially increase sales significantly.

The other target is the second hand gaming market, through which SI/Sega make no money. When it has been said that no secondary option has been deemed acceptable for activation this basically means that there is no other way for them to prevent re-sale. Again, with no re-sale market direct sales will likely increase significantly.

Whilst I really don't want to use steam it looks like I will have to as I want to play the game. Unfortunately this is something that everyone will have to adjust to, or forget about playing the game (legally anyway).

I must say I can't blame them as I would want to make more money too, if it was me - and I don't think anyone else could claim otherwise.

[SCIAG]

Was a lack of marketing in appropriate countries a contributing factor at all to the failure of this product?

Anecdotal evidence suggests so, but Miles was very clear when he announced EHM's demise that Riz would still be making it if X number of people who pirated it had gone out and purchased it.

[Dune297]

Probably not a massive drop but people need to realise the decision being made is FORCING them to use a 3rd party application that the game DOESN'T need to run..............that this decision is unlikely to even dent piracy..........that the reason is money not piracy..........and that everyone that does buy will no doubt in a few years be forced to purchase the game via Steam only and for an inflated price.

It's the regular $40.00 in America. No inflated prices here.

[Scab]

You have to sign up and see all the spam what comes with it like oh we have Civ 5 for 12.99, you get the picture, it's ramming there services down your throat.

Not intending to get into the Steam vs. no Steam discussion - everyone can make their own choice on that - but for the sake of full disclosure, sale popups can be disabled and the default tab changed from "Store" to whichever you prefer, such as your games library, should these be things you don't want to see.

[BayernMB]

You honestly don't see/have a problem with a 3rd party unconnected with SI or even Sega having control over a game you have purchased?

I admit that I'm not the most neutral person here, since I've used FM on Steam since it became available there, but personally I don't see a problem as long as I'm able to play the game the same way I played it before. Become the manager of my favourite team and kick ass in the league.

[Kriss]

It's actually irelevant to me why they chose to go with Steam activation (just as it was with Civ V etc) my only concern is that I can play my games with no hassle.

In 3 years with Steam I've done exactly that, and I've done it from UK, Belfast, Egypt, Hawaii, Malaysia, Prague, Paris and all over the USA, without the need to carry a disc or even take a laptop.

The job now surely is to ensure that those who elect to try it have as trouble free an experience as I have.

Then eventually those who are so adamantly against it may have enough factual evidence to persuade them to give it a try.

I have to say I was as vehemently against it (on the third party software agenda) as some of these people are now, my grandson blackguarded me into it and I'm now grateful that he did.

[SCIAG]

It's the regular $40.00 in America. No inflated prices here.

That's an exchange rate of about 1:2. The exchange rate at the moment is nothing like that.

I think PW's point was that he believes that competition is slowly going to be removed, therefore allowing Steam to charge more.

[Guest PW]

I admit that I'm not the most neutral person here, since I've used FM on Steam since it became available there, but personally I don't see a problem as long as I'm able to play the game the same way I played it before. Become the manager of my favourite team and kick ass in the league.

Thats fine if you want to play the game in the way you choose.

Other people don't want to play it that way and should have the choice not to.

Lets hope 2 other brothers in a bedroom develop a game and then don't sell it to Sega and the cash cows.

[Guest PW]

That's an exchange rate of about 1:2. The exchange rate at the moment is nothing like that.

I think PW's point was that he believes that competition is slowly going to be removed, therefore allowing Steam to charge more.

Exactly, people have to look beyond the end of their noses.

[rancer890]

Why don't SI just release EHM via Steam if that will make a significant difference to sales? I mean, it's a fairly popular game, though not as popular as FM- surely they could make some money from it if they could sell it at a lower rate of piracy?

It would make a significant difference because people in Canada and the US had no access at all (actually we have no idea it existed). I saw a grand total of 1 copy of EHM05 in Canada, at a local market in a messy PC games department of Wal-Mart. That's how I bought EHM07 and signed up to the forums in the first place. Marketing a hockey game to the UK and rest of Europe was never going to work.

SI have all but given up on EHM. They pulled the plug on the series and you can't even buy it on elicense.

[SeanNUFC]

IMO when SI/Sega are referring to 'piracy' they are not talking about people who will download torrents or such to play the game, as obviously this wont have any effect on them what-so-ever.

The target is casual 'piracy' such as two people living together who share a copy of the game. These people don't look upon this as piracy and it isn't done maliciously. As such with this sytem being introduced they will both have to purchase a copy of the game (which they will more than likely do). This kind of 'piracy' probably takes place an awful lot and would potentially increase sales significantly.

The other target is the second hand gaming market, through which SI/Sega make no money. When it has been said that no secondary option has been deemed acceptable for activation this basically means that there is no other way for them to prevent re-sale. Again, with no re-sale market direct sales will likely increase significantly.

Whilst I really don't want to use steam it looks like I will have to as I want to play the game. Unfortunately this is something that everyone will have to adjust to, or forget about playing the game (legally anyway).

I must say I can't blame them as I would want to make more money too, if it was me - and I don't think anyone else could claim otherwise.

Nice post.

[Kriss]

There's plenty of competition for Steam as far as prices go, remember you don't have to buy anything from Steam to use their facilities including FM12.

[BayernMB]

Thats fine if you want to play the game in the way you choose.

Other people don't want to play it that way and should have the choice not to.

Lets hope 2 other brothers in a bedroom develop a game and then don't sell it to Sega and the cash cows.

It's never "the way you choose"...should I moan up here, because for 10 years SI forced me to put my CD/DVD into the computer...again I say I'm not neutral, because SI going to digital download helped me getting FM on release day, which I wasn't able to do before that, because the DVD's were released weeks later here...but my point is I don't see valid argument in "I refuse to install Steam", I would understand it if it came with tons of viruses or pop-up messages which would slow down your PC. But of cours everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion...

[Guest PW]

It's never "the way you choose"...should I moan up here, because for 10 years SI forced me to put my CD/DVD into the computer...again I say I'm not neutral, because SI going to digital download helped me getting FM on release day, which I wasn't able to do before that, because the DVD's were released weeks later here...but my point is I don't see valid argument in "I refuse to install Steam", I would understand it if it came with tons of viruses or pop-up messages which would slow down your PC. But of cours everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion...

I don't think stating that you don't want to pop a DVD in a drive is the same to downloading 3rd party software, opening a 3rd party account, and then using a 3rd party application to run the game is a wise comparision.

Everyone does have an opinion and I demand choice as a consumer not a dictatorship.

Pity anyone without an internet connection, believe it or not there are still alot about and having to go to a library or someones house just to activate a product and put money in Sega's little tin is a bit demeaning.

Hope the box makes it clear in bold.

[Dune297]

I don't think stating that you don't want to pop a DVD in a drive is the same to downloading 3rd party software, opening a 3rd party account, and then using a 3rd party application to run the game is a wise comparision.

Everyone does have an opinion and I demand choice as a consumer not a dictatorship.

Pity anyone without an internet connection, believe it or not there are still alot about and having to go to a library or someones house just to activate a product and put money in Sega's little tin is a bit demeaning.

Hope the box makes it clear in bold.

You have a choice where to buy it from, just not where to activate it. It really doesn't matter since you'll be dealing with Steam once for 5 minutes. I don't see the problem.

[Guest PW]

You have a choice where to buy it from, just not where to activate it. It really doesn't matter since you'll be dealing with Steam once for 5 minutes. I don't see the problem.

I DON'T have a choice where to activate it, I DON'T have a choice not to have to download a 3rd party application, I DON'T have a choice not to have to keep that 3rd party application on my PC for the game to run, I DON'T have a choice not to have to sign up for a 3rd party account.

But yes AT THE MOMENT Sega/SI do allow me to but it in Tesco's or Game....................oh thank you I'm so grateful!

[BayernMB]

I don't think stating that you don't want to pop a DVD in a drive is the same to downloading 3rd party software, opening a 3rd party account, and then using a 3rd party application to run the game is a wise comparision.

Everyone does have an opinion and I demand choice as a consumer not a dictatorship.

Pity anyone without an internet connection, believe it or not there are still alot about and having to go to a library or someones house just to activate a product and put money in Sega's little tin is a bit demeaning.

Hope the box makes it clear in bold.

Again, from my point of view it's less a hassle to register there and get Steam once than having to pop a DVD every time you want to play a game...

[R0ca]

Wow Emotive topic.

Personally i feel sorry for those who won't be able to play this years game, for whatever reason. Personally i'm lucky steam has been ok for me and i'll continue to activate the game via steam as i did last year. Sadly this isn't possibly for everyone so my sympathy to those who are unable and who have been alienated by this decision.

My biggest concern for SI is the amount of people this could push towards Piracy of football manager. I'd be willing to bet that of those people who wont purchase the game due to Steam, some of them will play a illegal copy of this a game and this must be a concern for SI?

If any of this post is in any way breaking any rules feel free to edit ~

[Guest PW]

Again, from my point of view it's less a hassle to register there and get Steam once than having to pop a DVD every time you want to play a game...

Yes so give us a CHOICE you do it your way me my way.

[Dune297]

I DON'T have a choice where to activate it, I DON'T have a choice not to have to download a 3rd party application, I DON'T have a choice not to have to keep that 3rd party application on my PC for the game to run, I DON'T have a choice not to have to sign up for a 3rd party account.

But yes AT THE MOMENT Sega/SI do allow me to but it in Tesco's or Game....................oh thank you I'm so grateful!

Five minutes isn't really going to kill you. You don't even have to know it's there.

[Guest PW]

Wow Emotive topic.

Personally i feel sorry for those who won't be able to play this years game, for whatever reason. Personally i'm lucky steam has been ok for me and i'll continue to activate the game via steam as i did last year. Sadly this isn't possibly for everyone so my sympathy to those who are unable and who have been alienated by this decision.

My biggest concern for SI is the amount of people this could push towards Piracy of football manager. I'd be willing to bet that of those people who wont purchase the game due to Steam, some of them will play a illegal copy of this a game and this must be a concern for SI?

If any of this post is in any way breaking any rules feel free to edit ~

Exactly this adds to piracy not detracts from it.

[Guest PW]

Five minutes isn't really going to kill you. You don't even have to know it's there.

It won't kill me no, thanks for pointing that out.

It will mean I have to be signed up for a 3rd party account, it will mean that I have to have that 3rd party software on my pc constantly, and it will mean that this 3rd party software will be needed to run the game............so much clearer now.

[SeanNUFC]

God it feels like this thread is going round in circles on every page. And people wonder why the poll thread was closed.

[Cougar2010]

You have a choice where to buy it from, just not where to activate it. It really doesn't matter since you'll be dealing with Steam once for 5 minutes. I don't see the problem.

Thats simply not true Dune.

You will need to open & connect to Steam to activate FM.

Steam will open & run in either online or offline mode every time you play FM (This can be set to just be in the background on your taskbar).

You will need to open & connect to Steam to install patches (Although not confirmed I'm 99% sure as thats how other games work on Steam).

You will need to deal with Steam if you encounter any problems with the Steam program.

[Guest PW]

Thats simply not true Dune.

You will need to open & connect to Steam to activate FM.

Steam will open & run in either online or offline mode every time you play FM (This can be set to just be in the background on your taskbar).

You will need to open & connect to Steam to install patches (Although not confirmed I'm 99% sure as thats how other games work on Steam).

You will need to deal with Steam if you encounter any problems with the Steam program.

Exactly someone who actually looks beyond the end of their nose and understands that it isn't quite as basic as Sega/SI or some other people think so.

People who like Steam and the way it runs great, good for you. But CHOICE as a consumer is King.

[BayernMB]

Yes so give us a CHOICE you do it your way me my way.

I understand your point, but I could be mean and say, that for years I didn't have a choice... You just don't have a choice with every product...sad fact but that's how it is. Again - my point of view, but I wouldn't miss a version of FM because I don't want Steam (as it doesn't do anything bad on my computer), since I get much more joy out of it than problems through installing Steam...

[SRKI]

Haven't been here for a while but I don't like what I see

STEAM NO!!!

In my opinion SI should consider the paradox way of registering

You by the game you register it on the forums and you gain access to Editors Hideaway to tech support, updates and some other coll stuff SI don't have to pay for any protection

The only problem is you get tempted to pirate the game because you can play it for free whit out bothering to crack it (I know I did but I prevailed )

But to be honest even if I have to go and get steam to play FM I'll by it like every year (yes I'm one of the rear ones from Serbia who buy games and programs and my friends make fun of me for that)

[Kriss]

God it feels like this thread is going round in circles on every page. And people wonder why the poll thread was closed.

Of course it is, not many people are going to read 15 pages to discover if their concern has already been addressed so it'll just cycle on as there's actually nothing new to add (that I can think of anyway)

[Dune297]

It won't kill me no, thanks for pointing that out.

It will mean I have to be signed up for a 3rd party account, it will mean that I have to have that 3rd party software on my pc constantly, and it will mean that this 3rd party software will be needed to run the game............so much clearer now.

I'll say it again. You won't even notice it's there.

[Guest PW]

I understand your point, but I could be mean and say, that for years I didn't have a choice... You just don't have a choice with every product...sad fact but that's how it is. Again - my point of view, but I wouldn't miss a version of FM because I don't want Steam (as it doesn't do anything bad on my computer), since I get much more joy out of it than problems through installing Steam...

That's like sayiong the DVD manufacturers aren't giving me a choice they are MAKING me put the damn thing in the DVD player the gits!

Nothing compared to 3rd party software and accounts.

[SCIAG]

I'll say it again. You won't even notice it's there.

Until you close it, when an advertisement will pop up for Valve's latest game, or a sale.

[Ackter]

Ok, final warning:

If you have questions about Steam and FM then please ask and someone will try and answer them

If you are unhappy with the decision to use Steam as the sole activation service then please do voice your opinions

If you are happy with the decision then, again, please do voice your opinions.

However, please do not continuously argue with each other, repeating the same points over and over again in some form of never-ending limbo.

Thanks.

[leftback in the changing room]

Well there was no answer forthcoming from my question about 5 hours ago - "Can we download a patch from any other source rather than Steam's auto update feature" - aside from Ackter giving as honest an answer as he could earlier on to somebody else: 'I don't know'

So let me try another tack: "Can SI/SEGA assure us that when a user activates the game, Steam will not automatically download a patch"?

Because IIRC, people firing up the most recent Total War found themselves downloading a 1GB file when activating. Which might not be an issue for those blessed with superfast broadband connections, but for people on relatively slow connections it's a pain, for people with dowwnload limits it's an expensive mistake, and for people on dial-up it'll be an absolute nightmare. And it will render their purchase unplayable.

[Dune297]

Ok, final warning:

If you have questions about Steam and FM then please ask and someone will try and answer them

If you are unhappy with the decision to use Steam as the sole activation service then please do voice your opinions

If you are happy with the decision then, again, please do voice your opinions.

However, please do not continuously argue with each other, repeating the same points over and over again in some form of never-ending limbo.

Thanks.

So if somebody makes a rather absurd point we aren't allowed to argue against it? What's the point in this discussion then?

[Guest PW]

Well there was no answer forthcoming from my question about 5 hours ago - "Can we download a patch from any other source rather than Steam's auto update feature" - aside from Ackter giving as honest an answer as he could earlier on to somebody else: 'I don't know'

So let me try another tack: "Can SI/SEGA assure us that when a user activates the game, Steam will not automatically download a patch"?

Because IIRC, people firing up the most recent Total War found themselves downloading a 1GB file when activating. Which might not be an issue for those blessed with superfast broadband connections, but for people on relatively slow connections it's a pain, for people with dowwnload limits it's an expensive mistake, and for people on dial-up it'll be an absolute nightmare. And it will render their purchase unplayable.

I think that there is a reason that question hasn't been answered don't you!!!!

[stevie_G_32201]

Well there was no answer forthcoming from my question about 5 hours ago - "Can we download a patch from any other source rather than Steam's auto update feature" - aside from Ackter giving as honest an answer as he could earlier on to somebody else: 'I don't know'

So let me try another tack: "Can SI/SEGA assure us that when a user activates the game, Steam will not automatically download a patch"?

Because IIRC, people firing up the most recent Total War found themselves downloading a 1GB file when activating. Which might not be an issue for those blessed with superfast broadband connections, but for people on relatively slow connections it's a pain, for people with dowwnload limits it's an expensive mistake, and for people on dial-up it'll be an absolute nightmare. And it will render their purchase unplayable.

I can assure you that auto patching CAN be turned off.

[Guest]

For all those worried about a financial link between Sega & Steam/Valve any concerns could be confirmed or debunked by accessing SegaSammys financial reports, I assume they are a Nikkei listed company therefore such data should be readily available & may also serve to demonstrate any revenue trends & more importantly you can go back to them next year to see if their corporate wide link with Steam results in a increase of decrease in retail game revenue.

Just a thought, not one I'm going to look into on a Saturday night or if I'm honest any other night as I hate reading corporate financial reports & it's not an area that greatly bothers me.

[SCIAG]

Can SI assure us that we will not see a repeat of the fiasco that happened when the Mac OS was updated recently and Steam users were not able to play FM?

[Dune297]

Well there was no answer forthcoming from my question about 5 hours ago - "Can we download a patch from any other source rather than Steam's auto update feature" - aside from Ackter giving as honest an answer as he could earlier on to somebody else: 'I don't know'

So let me try another tack: "Can SI/SEGA assure us that when a user activates the game, Steam will not automatically download a patch"?

Because IIRC, people firing up the most recent Total War found themselves downloading a 1GB file when activating. Which might not be an issue for those blessed with superfast broadband connections, but for people on relatively slow connections it's a pain, for people with dowwnload limits it's an expensive mistake, and for people on dial-up it'll be an absolute nightmare. And it will render their purchase unplayable.

Steam will only automatically download it if you have two things.

#1. Steam must be in online mode. If it's in offline mode, you won't be able to download it.

#2. If you like Steam in online mode, but don't want automatic updates, you can simply right click on the game in your library, hit properties, hit updates, and hit "Do not automatically update this game."

[BayernMB]

That's like sayiong the DVD manufacturers aren't giving me a choice they are MAKING me put the damn thing in the DVD player the gits!

Nothing compared to 3rd party software and accounts.

Look, by nature I'm a lazy person...if I compare the time I've spent getting my CM/FM CD/DVD opening the box, putting DVD in, waiting for DVD ROM so start reading it (screaming at the computer when DVD was scratched or DVD ROM was almost broken - which happened often at this time of year) and the time it takes me to interact with Steam since release date till release date of next FM---absolutely no comparison.