A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

[Champions_09]

This s**t is whack, i am disappointed.

[CuRvZ]

One of the SEGA guys will have to answer that I'm afraid as I just don't know how it works there personally.

I'm not sure there's much that can be said though, we're not allowed to sell the game in Germany full stop. We'd love to, but for legal reasons that have already been explained we're just not allowed to.

As such, I'm not sure we'd even be allowed to advise you on any ways of getting around that as it could be seen as officially encouraging people to break the law.

I have gifted non-censored versions of L4D2 and Borderlands to friends in Germany through Steam, because they could only buy the censored version in Germany. They have had no problems whatsoever downloading and playing the non-censored versions afterwards (even though those are illegal in Germany). I imagine Steam doing the same for anyone living in Germany, ie you cannot purchase the game from there, but you will have no problems receiving the game as a gift or activating a game key from abroad.

This would also makes sense I believe, as SEGA/SI are not allowed to sell the game in Germany, nobody has said anything about playing it

Also, everyone should stop making such a drama about having to use Steam, its a neat little program (been using it for years), and as far as anti-piracy measures are concerned, especially considering what some companies are trying to do these day (I am looking at you, Ubisoft), it's actually one of the most pleasant choices they could make. Also, you can't expect any modern day software developer to just rely on a simple disc-check to verify that a game is legal. If you really enjoy playing FM and want to support SI, then I think it's well worth the effort trying to get to know Steam a little better before swearing off the game all together. It's not like it's going to steal your car and run off with your wife.

[mrstef]

Iv just read on another post and hes made a good point about spending god money on his laptop etc etc etc

I spent over £500 on my laptop and the only reason i bought it was for FM. i have never used for anything else. i bought it purely for football manager

Iv managed to play one edition of FM on this laptop

Can SI/SEGA give me some money for a laptop im no longer going to use

[CaptainPlanet]

Can SI/SEGA give me some money for a laptop im no longer going to use

Fantastic post.

[x42bn6]

I don't like the fact I have to install an operating system to play games. I don't want stupid 3rd party software on my machine

It is a reasonable expectation of a user for an operating system to have a set of applications in order to make their life convenient, and this includes the capability to install other software.

It is not necessarily a reasonable expectation for a user to have Steam in order to run a game.

The game has run without Steam before, so unless something huge has changed in the codebase to tightly bind itself to Steam (which is a bad idea in itself), it is easy to see that Steam and Football Manager 2012 can still be decoupled. They don't need to be dependent on each other.

It's just user expectations. I have an OS and I expect it to allow me to browse the Internet, type some things, have a clock and calendar, and install applications. Sure, it restricts what I can do because I could in theory write my own OS in C and make it do more than Windows 7, but I trade that lack of functionality for convenience. It is just that for some, trading the lack of choice outweighs the supposed benefits forced Steam provides. And since it feels forced, it feels even worse.

[TacticalGenius]

As I said before I can only quote my own experience (and that of everybody I know who uses Steam) I've used it for 3 years and never had any kind of issue whatsoever, nor have any of my friends that I'm aware of.

As always with emotive issues like this people are enormously economical with the truth at times, just trying to validate their point of view.

This.

[Lazaru5]

FM11 had no required activation. You could install and either play via disc-in-tray, or register via Steam and then there was no need to have your disc to play. And you could access FM on any machine via Steam. Last year we looked for a method to combat piracy, but didn't feel there was an acceptable solution that was balanced the battle against piracy without penalizing genuine customers. This year we feel we've found that solution.

Does the strength of feeling against the idea not tell you that you got it wrong? Will it take upwards of 40% of your current customer base to not buy the game to show you that you've made a mistake? Wouldn't a 40% cut in revenues severely impact on the future of SI as a studio? Whoever made the decision to make FM12 a Steam-only game made a massive mistake...

As mentioned earlier, it was closed because it was effectively a carbon copy of this thread. It's best to keep everyone's opinions in this one thread as it's a lot easier to gauge everything.

What people are saying is far more important than the poll bit of the last thread.

The poll is the best way to gauge opinion! It's much easier to click "vote" than to write a whole post... and that poll was showing over 40% of this forum's member-base were against the introduction of "Steam-only FM". I fear Brock closed it in an attempt to hide from the masses the true feelings of a large proportion of this community which is nothing more than censorship.

I've ignored Brock's postings as, apart from the fact that they show a massive amount of disrespect to the people that actually buy the game, it's quite obvious that he is just another of the monkey's and is nowhere near the organ. What he has to say is about as relevant as those people who "have never had a problem with Steam"...

[Magicz]

I downloaded Steam for 09 and it crippled my laptop. I was really looking forward to FM 12 but I doubt I'll get it now. :'(

[CaptainPlanet]

Straw man argument.

"I don't like the fact I have to buy a PC or a Mac to play the game, blah blah ti blah"

Using Steam to activate the game is NOT the same as the ill-fated Uniloc activation sytsem.

It forces you to have Steam actively running on your PC in order to play the game.

It forces you to connect to the internet to be able to activate your game.

It provides no more protection against piracy than having your DVD in the drive to start it.

Still don't see the issue. Downloading a piece of software to run a game.

No downside.

???

[CaptainPlanet]

It is a reasonable expectation of a user for an operating system to have a set of applications in order to make their life convenient, and this includes the capability to install other software.

It is not necessarily a reasonable expectation for a user to have Steam in order to run a game.

The game has run without Steam before, so unless something huge has changed in the codebase to tightly bind itself to Steam (which is a bad idea in itself), it is easy to see that Steam and Football Manager 2012 can still be decoupled. They don't need to be dependent on each other.

It's just user expectations. I have an OS and I expect it to allow me to browse the Internet, type some things, have a clock and calendar, and install applications. Sure, it restricts what I can do because I could in theory write my own OS in C and make it do more than Windows 7, but I trade that lack of functionality for convenience. It is just that for some, trading the lack of choice outweighs the supposed benefits forced Steam provides. And since it feels forced, it feels even worse.

Then it's time people's expectations changed.

[mrstef]

Can someone please tell me the real reasons behind this

I just don't understand why this is going to happen

Doing this for "piracy issues" is not going to make more people buy it. The people who copy the game obviously have no intention of paying for it so it wont make a difference to them

You will lose more people than gain

Absolutely pointless

[x42bn6]

Still don't see the issue. Downloading a piece of software to run a game.

No downside.

???

It takes resources (and for those saying 100 MB isn't a lot - it is - Firefox gets complaints hitting those levels), is an additional point of failure (if Steam goes down?), and it is an additional point where your data can be transmitted and is hence a new angle of attack from a security and privacy standpoint.

[x42bn6]

Then it's time people's expectations changed.

Why should consumers change, when it's publishers who want us to buy their software?

We hold the strings - not them.

Users' expectations should not be lowered - otherwise software companies would walk all over us.

People don't like to be walked over, and this is what this change does for some.

[El_Strict]

As always with emotive issues like this people are enormously economical with the truth at times, just trying to validate their point of view.

Entirely agree with this, Neil Brock is a prime example.

[Guest aaron70]

To activate you will need to sign up to, and install the Steam client

Having bought a copy for the last 7 years, I will not be buying 2012. FM11 will have to do until this policy changes. I will not be forced to put Steam on my computer.

Make no mistake, if a quarter of the people that usually pirate the game switch to purchasing Football Manager 2012, the sales of the game worldwide would more than double. This would lead to increased development budgets and more benefits for all of you who do buy the game.

Is that a serious comment, or do you think we are idiots?

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Entirely agree with this, Neil Brock is a prime example.

Well played sir.

[Indi75]

But at least previously anyone in Germany could get hold of a disc and run it from that disc. One look at the forums would show you that ther is a large community of players in Germany that can now no longer player the game. Congratulations you have managed to lose all sales in a complete country.

Sales that wouldn't have been factored owing to it not being legal to sell into Germany? Hardly losing anything are they?

so you are also telling many of our troops who live on BRITISH bases in germany that its tough s**t? you also wont be able to play fm12!

Twas always thus, be the want of the German administration.

[mantralux]

Here's the bottom line in my opinion;

For the people using pirated versions of FM to play, there is no difference. All it takes is one person to crack the game and/or come up with a workaround (and they will do this) to play it without Steam installed, and the user will find it easily on any of the hundreds of torrent sites out there.

So if you're a person using the pirated version of the game, it makes no difference if SEGA publishes the game exclusively through Steam or not, you will find your cracked version as quickly as usual. Which then creates the question how using Steam will reduce the number non-paying customers? And also; how will SEGA even know if the number is reduced based on Steam, or based on other things?

As I see it, the honest consumers are being punished for the actions of thieves, when we should be rewarded for our many years of loyal consumerism to the developer. I trust Sports Interactive, but I don't trust SEGA, and I definitely don't trust Valve.

What SEGA has done is to effectively add another layer of things that can go wrong between me as a user and the game I want to play. If my account gets compromised, or if I get wrongfully banned for whatever reason, Valve is now the ultimate judge on my purchased games, and can decide on a whim whetherI'm able to play or access them or not.

Although there is a huge difference between Apple and Sports Interactive, SI might want to look at the model Apple use for most of their consumer software products - no DRM, no serials, no activation. And the reason they can do that is because they focus on creating highly polished and desirable software that you want to buy.

And to be honest, I'm 100% certain that it would make no difference in piracy whatsoever if you only publish through Steam, or if you have no DRM, serials or activation whatsoever. And the reason I think that, is because codemonkeys aren't deterred by SEGA's exclusive (and lucrative I assume) publishing deal with Steam, and those who opt for using pirated software won't all of a sudden go "hmm well if it's only on Steam, I might as well buy it, instead of waiting for a cracked version as I always do".

Sorry for the essay.

[Indi75]

Entirely agree with this, Neil Brock is a prime example.

Pretty much just trolling now aren't you? 90% of your posts seem to be entirely made up of incitement in this thread with a couple of sabbaticals to bitch at SI in other threads.

Have an opinion by all means, but once stated it'd be polite to just shut up rather than engaging in some prepubescent mission to wax wroth every third post.

[leftback in the changing room]

Still don't see the issue. Downloading a piece of software to run a game.

No downside.

???

It's not just 'downloading a piece of software to run a game'. It's 'downloading a piece of software, programmed by a different company whose objectives may not necessarily tie in with SI's or SEGA's, that cannot be switched off but only left in a vague standby mode that doesn't actually stand by very well, that forces behaviour onto users that no other game they have installed from a DVD requires, to run a game.'

I have GalCiv2 on my PC. If I want to update it I have to log on Impulse, so I have an unupdated copy of GalCiv2. But - and this is important - GalCiv2 doesn't demand that I MUST register with Impulse to play the game.

Seeing that I lived in shared accomodation for 4 years with no internet access for my PC, I'm sympathetic to the people on here that are averse to this whole setup. There was not one version of CM/FM that I regularly purchased that demanded internet access (even the last disastrous activation attempt allowed the possibility of offline acivation via telephone).

[Dune297]

It's not unobtrusive at all - It's the worst piece of software ever created on a Mac. This is with Steam sitting idle for 10 minutes after opening.

That memory could be put much better to use with FM, which is a close second on the worst piece of software ever created on a Mac. Memory usage and fan speed goes through the roof whenever you launch it.

First off you're using a Mac. That says a lot. Second, 149k is not a lot. Unless your computer is 5 years old, you should have 4gb of ram.

[mantralux]

First off you're using a Mac. That says a lot. Second, 149k is not a lot. Unless your computer is 5 years old, you should have 4gb of ram.

1. Many people play FM on a Mac.

2. It's not 149k, it's 149MB.

3. The number before that is processor power, showing that Steam is using 35% processor power when idling.

Still good?

[x42bn6]

First off you're using a Mac. That says a lot. Second, 149k is not a lot. Unless your computer is 5 years old, you should have 4gb of ram.

150 MB is a lot - I'd consider that a "heavy" process. Especially considering the fact that the one of the purposes of playing a game is to not see Steam.

150 MB is a full-fledged application rather than a "wrapper application".

[karlrobertuk]

Ok i have steam on my computer and so far have had no problems with it....I understand that people do and so like to own disc based games that dont need to connect to the internet....The sad fact of the matter is that all games on the pc are going digital distribution be that with steam, direct download, greenman gaiming, good old games, and even ea,s origin. Have a look in your local games shop and see how big the pc stand is.It is only maybe another two to three years before all pc games become direct downloads only.This will also happen to consoles, not this gen but next gen...Do you all complain when you download your apps to your phones, tablets.? Do people complain because they cant buy them in a shop ?Ye. Do i think this will stop the game from being pirated... No, it wont , do i think this will earn si any more sales,,, no i dont. The game will sell as much as it does every year....If you want more sales, reduce the price down to under £ 20. A double dip is coming, games are an expensive treat.Yes i no this is about having to acctivate a disc based game via steam, but si are not the only game company that do this.Look at what others are doing befor you judge si so harshly. You want to play battlefield 3 you will need to install orgin you want to play diablo 3 you need to install blizzards downloader and client. And there more games which you are required to do this.

[PSJMcNeill]

Twice in recent days after I have shut down FM steam is running in the background doing nothing and is around 150mb usage and my poor laptop can't put up with that anymore, will still get FM but was seriously looking forward to uninstalling steam

[jpwild]

I would like to start off that I condemn piracy of any media.

However, I would like to know the details of the research with regards to the post that was made commenting that for every 1 FM game there is 3 'cracked' games being used or something along those lines.

Obviously the term 'cracked' is very wide.

1) Cracked could mean a product downloaded illegally off the internet and used without paying.

2) It could mean a NOCD crack has been used on a legally purchased game. I understand this violate the terms of the EULA, however, this doesn't mean the game is pirated in anyway shape or form.

So I am interested in this. Does the research that has led to the 3-1 ratio conclusion include or exclude people legally purchasing the game, keeping it, but yet using a NOCD crack. I'm not interested in the rights or wrongs of that as that argument has been done to death on here and all over the internet. I am just curious to know a bit more about the research involved that led to the 3-1 conclusion.

If you don't want to release the research, may I ask why not?

[Lazaru5]

Here's the bottom line in my opinion;

For the people using pirated versions of FM to play, there is no difference. All it takes is one person to crack the game and/or come up with a workaround (and they will do this) to play it without Steam installed, and the user will find it easily on any of the hundreds of torrent sites out there.

So if you're a person using the pirated version of the game, it makes no difference if SEGA publishes the game exclusively through Steam or not, you will find your cracked version as quickly as usual. Which then creates the question how using Steam will reduce the number non-paying customers? And also; how will SEGA even know if the number is reduced based on Steam, or based on other things?

As I see it, the honest consumers are being punished for the actions of thieves, when we should be rewarded for our many years of loyal consumerism to the developer. I trust Sports Interactive, but I don't trust SEGA, and I definitely don't trust Valve.

What SEGA has done is to effectively add another layer of things that can go wrong between me as a user and the game I want to play. If my account gets compromised, or if I get wrongfully banned for whatever reason, Valve is now the ultimate judge on my purchased games, and can decide on a whim whetherI'm able to play or access them or not.

Although there is a huge difference between Apple and Sports Interactive, SI might want to look at the model Apple use for most of their consumer software products - no DRM, no serials, no activation. And the reason they can do that is because they focus on creating highly polished and desirable software that you want to buy.

And to be honest, I'm 100% certain that it would make no difference in piracy whatsoever if you only publish through Steam, or if you have no DRM, serials or activation whatsoever. And the reason I think that, is because codemonkeys aren't deterred by SEGA's exclusive (and lucrative I assume) publishing deal with Steam, and those who opt for using pirated software won't all of a sudden go "hmm well if it's only on Steam, I might as well buy it, instead of waiting for a cracked version as I always do".

Sorry for the essay.

An excellent post from a respected FM'er, Well said

[Dune297]

1. Many people play FM on a Mac.

2. It's not 149k, it's 149MB.

3. The number before that is processor power, showing that Steam is using 35% processor power when idling.

Still good?

Many people waste their money on overpriced pieces of crap like Macs when they can build their own for half the price. You can't even replace parts on a Mac, at least pre-built PCs you can. And they complain that they can't afford internet? 35% proccessing power? This guy must have a ****ing 10 year old computer? I'd like to hear the specs on this piece of crap. 149MB is nothing compared to the 4gb most people have.

[Dune297]

150 MB is a lot - I'd consider that a "heavy" process. Especially considering the fact that the one of the purposes of playing a game is to not see Steam.

150 MB is a full-fledged application rather than a "wrapper application".

Like I said, unless your computer is a piece of crap and about 5 years old, you should have 4gb of ram, which you will rarely ever fill up.

[mantralux]

Just started Steam on my Mac, took 42 seconds to open (couldn't connect to my account). Idling, it's using 143MB, which is more memory than my web browser, my mail client, my Twitter client, etc. It's also using 2-2.5% processor power when just doing nothing. Compared to 'real' background clients like Dropbox, Plex Media Server and Cloud app, Steam is using around 4-5x the resources.

One of the problems with this is that neither SI nor SEGA have any control over the bloatware, and will have to rely on Steam working well on my machine in order for me to actually use the software I bought from SI and SEGA.

[Guest]

Like I said, unless your computer is a piece of crap and about 5 years old, you should have 4gb of ram, which you will rarely ever fill up.

Obviously you do not realise that Mac's are very useful outside the gaming environment & trump PC's in many applications, at a previous employer we had one mac that used for building & developing our online fuctionality, we would never have dreamed about using a PC for that area of the business.

Just because you, I & the majority use the PC format it does not make it the best & only option.

[x42bn6]

Many people waste their money on overpriced pieces of crap like Macs when they can build their own for half the price. You can't even replace parts on a Mac, at least pre-built PCs you can. And they complain that they can't afford internet? 35% proccessing power? This guy must have a ****ing 10 year old computer? I'd like to hear the specs on this piece of crap. 149MB is nothing compared to the 4gb most people have.

It's quite a lot really... This ~150 MB is paged to disk in pages - since it's on your computer, it is getting paged, and is therefore consuming resources under the bonnet.

Also, it doesn't matter how quick your processor is - it's processor cycles it's consuming, and it would be around 35% on many processors, from Pentium 4s to Sandy Bridge Xeons. The difference is how long it takes to complete - i.e. how long it stays at 35%.

[Lazaru5]

Many people waste their money on overpriced pieces of crap like Macs when they can build their own for half the price. You can't even replace parts on a Mac, at least pre-built PCs you can. And they complain that they can't afford internet? 35% proccessing power? This guy must have a ****ing 10 year old computer? I'd like to hear the specs on this piece of crap. 149MB is nothing compared to the 4gb most people have.

I think you'll find that *most people* in today's world of austerity own second-hand and aged computer equipment, partly because they can't afford it, and partly because they don't need it. You are saying that everybody MUST upgrade to a system that matches your high standards...

Please stop posting in this thread because your ill-informed and unwelcome demands on how we should spend our hard-earned salaries deliver nothing to the topic in hand and only serve to anger and upset others.

[mantralux]

Many people waste their money on overpriced pieces of crap like Macs when they can build their own for half the price. You can't even replace parts on a Mac, at least pre-built PCs you can. And they complain that they can't afford internet? 35% proccessing power? This guy must have a ****ing 10 year old computer? I'd like to hear the specs on this piece of crap. 149MB is nothing compared to the 4gb most people have.

Well you seem to want to drag this into some kind of juvenile Mac vs PC debate, but you're completely missing the point in the process.

Even if his computer is a "10-year old piece of crap" (which it isn't) it shouldn't matter - the point is that Steam is another resource layer between him and the game, and isn't optimised enough for Mac to work as well in OS X as it does in Windows. For us Mac users, Steam mostly feels like a sloppy port of PC code.

[adamstudley]

Here's the bottom line in my opinion;

For the people using pirated versions of FM to play, there is no difference. All it takes is one person to crack the game and/or come up with a workaround (and they will do this) to play it without Steam installed, and the user will find it easily on any of the hundreds of torrent sites out there.

So if you're a person using the pirated version of the game, it makes no difference if SEGA publishes the game exclusively through Steam or not, you will find your cracked version as quickly as usual. Which then creates the question how using Steam will reduce the number non-paying customers? And also; how will SEGA even know if the number is reduced based on Steam, or based on other things?

As I see it, the honest consumers are being punished for the actions of thieves, when we should be rewarded for our many years of loyal consumerism to the developer. I trust Sports Interactive, but I don't trust SEGA, and I definitely don't trust Valve.

What SEGA has done is to effectively add another layer of things that can go wrong between me as a user and the game I want to play. If my account gets compromised, or if I get wrongfully banned for whatever reason, Valve is now the ultimate judge on my purchased games, and can decide on a whim whetherI'm able to play or access them or not.

Although there is a huge difference between Apple and Sports Interactive, SI might want to look at the model Apple use for most of their consumer software products - no DRM, no serials, no activation. And the reason they can do that is because they focus on creating highly polished and desirable software that you want to buy.

And to be honest, I'm 100% certain that it would make no difference in piracy whatsoever if you only publish through Steam, or if you have no DRM, serials or activation whatsoever. And the reason I think that, is because codemonkeys aren't deterred by SEGA's exclusive (and lucrative I assume) publishing deal with Steam, and those who opt for using pirated software won't all of a sudden go "hmm well if it's only on Steam, I might as well buy it, instead of waiting for a cracked version as I always do".

Sorry for the essay.

^this!! The only people being punished for piracy are a part (however small) of FM's paying consumer base.

[Dune297]

Obviously you do not realise that Mac's are very useful outside the gaming environment, at a pervious employer we had one mac that used for building & developing our online fuctionality.

Just because you & I along with the majority use the PC format it does not make it the best & only option.

So you'd pay twice for a Mac that's "very useful outside the gaming environment," when in fact it's not. I can do anything a Mac can on my PC and more. It simply comes down to expenses.

[dafuge]

Like I said, unless your computer is a piece of crap and about 5 years old, you should have 4gb of ram, which you will rarely ever fill up.

The minimum supported specs for FM11 state 'Memory - XP-512MB Ram, Vista/W7 - 1GB Ram'. They may appear to be dated to you but it is only fair to assume that people with those sorts of specs are still playing FM.

[x42bn6]

Like I said, unless your computer is a piece of crap and about 5 years old, you should have 4gb of ram, which you will rarely ever fill up.

RAM doesn't work that way - you have virtual memory and caching, and an intelligent operating system that makes optimal use of both physical and virtual memory.

It's not about "filling a quota" as such - it's about the effects of paging, context switching and Steam's own processing. 150 MB says a lot about that process - it's huge. Is it for good reason? Well, if I just want to play FM, I don't care about Steam... So I don't want to see Steam.

Think about it - when your game runs slow, people often recommend you close other applications, even if you have a billion gigabytes of RAM. It has nothing to do with "filling up your RAM counter" - it's more than that.

[Dune297]

I think you'll find that *most people* in today's world of austerity own second-hand and aged computer equipment, partly because they can't afford it, and partly because they don't need it. You are saying that everybody MUST upgrade to a system that matches your high standards...

Please stop posting in this thread because your ill-informed and unwelcome demands on how we should spend our hard-earned salaries deliver nothing to the topic in hand and only serve to anger and upset others.

They can't afford it because they have a Mac. Macs are twice the price or more of a PC that you can build yourself.

Well you seem to want to drag this into some kind of juvenile Mac vs PC debate, but you're completely missing the point in the process.

Even if his computer is a "10-year old piece of crap" (which it isn't) it shouldn't matter - the point is that Steam is another resource layer between him and the game, and isn't optimised enough for Mac to work as well in OS X as it does in Windows. For us Mac users, Steam mostly feels like a sloppy port of PC code.

It's 160mbs for crying out loud. I haven't met someone outside of this forum who doesn't have 4gb of ram, Mac or PC.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Many people waste their money on overpriced pieces of crap like Macs when they can build their own for half the price. You can't even replace parts on a Mac, at least pre-built PCs you can. And they complain that they can't afford internet? 35% proccessing power? This guy must have a ****ing 10 year old computer? I'd like to hear the specs on this piece of crap. 149MB is nothing compared to the 4gb most people have.

Thank you for acknowledging the ignorance shown in your earlier post, it's refreshing to see such humility around here.

[Lazaru5]

So you'd pay twice for a Mac that's "very useful outside the gaming environment," when in fact it's not. I can do anything a Mac can on my PC and more. It simply comes down to expenses.

Maybe you should visit one of Mantralux's websites then Dune297 if you think that she doesn't know what she's talking about... she is an expert in her field, unlike you..

[x42bn6]

So you'd pay twice for a Mac that's "very useful outside the gaming environment," when in fact it's not. I can do anything a Mac can on my PC and more. It simply comes down to expenses.

There's more to an operating system than just pure functionality.

[Dune297]

The minimum supported specs for FM11 state 'Memory - XP-512MB Ram, Vista/W7 - 1GB Ram'. They may appear to be dated to you but it is only fair to assume that people with those sorts of specs are still playing FM.

That's minimum for FM11, not for Steam. This is Steam, not FM11.

[Indi75]

Um... my Steam Client is running at 39MB (out of 8GB?!?), occasionally jumps to 45MB whilst playing. Hardly a hog.

[Dune297]

There's more to an operating system than just pure functionality.

Sure, the Apple OS might look nicer on the outside, but to pay twice the price and more for something lesser than a PC is absolutely absurd.

[x42bn6]

That's minimum for FM11, not for Steam. This is Steam, not FM11.

The good news is that they are the same...

Windows XP, Vista, or 7

512 MB RAM

1 Ghz or faster processor

http://store.steampowered.com/about/

[Dune297]

Maybe you should visit one of Mantralux's websites then Dune297 if you think that she doesn't know what she's talking about... she is an expert in her field, unlike you..

And I can do a bit of programming to make websites like this on my PC. I don't understand what you're getting at?

[Guest]

Dune can you get off the anti-mac line? it's not helpful & dilutes anything you post.

Surely you can see that the proposed software is not optimised for a particular piece of hardware/software & this should have been considered when taking this action.

[Dune297]

The good news is that they are the same...

http://store.steampowered.com/about/

That's the absolute minimum. Using system requirements is rather absurd. I'm sure if Steam had a recommended, it would be around 2gb or more.

[x42bn6]

Sure, the Apple OS might look nicer on the outside, but to pay twice the price and more for something lesser than a PC is absolutely absurd.

People don't pay for pure functionality - user experience is a genuine factor in purchasing software.

A modern-day Unix shell is more functional than Windows 7, but it is obvious that your argument doesn't hold - few consumers like Unix interfaces.

Plus, this argument does not hold for free OSes like Ubuntu - which are infinitely better than Windows 7, so are infinitely better value for money. So why do people not ditch Windows and Macs, and go for Ubuntu?

The reason is simple - there's way more to an operating system than functionality, and there's other factors aside from functionality that determine price. Plus people are willing to pay extra for "nice". Look at brand loyalty, for example, or paying a little extra for better customer service.