oTRUTHo Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Kaka top for me too. His game is about as complete as I've seen since Zidane. Messi and Ronaldo have the tricks and I have little doubt Messi could, one day, be almost as good as Maradona was but Kaka's got the footballing intelligence that the others simply don't. IMO of course. i dont know about messi being maradona. but im shure Agüero is enjoying himself? he going out with his daughter lucky man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goals53 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Pretty sure the richest club in the world went in for him! Yeah the richest club in the world in the bottom half of the Premiership Notice he rejected as well? :)there throwing money about De Jong 18 mill when they could of got him for 1.8 mill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reillyg Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Thats fair enough and as you said Zidane was top class and IMO the best player ever to grace the green grass of the pitch. He has got football intelligence but he is 26? or 27? one or the other and i think that Messi at that age will be phenomenal and every club will trying to buy him, Kaka £100 mill? Messi will be worth more. But i dont think that any player is worth £100 mill. Kaka tore united apart in Milan a couple of years ago but and it was embarrassing and Messi does it week in week out, Ronaldos on off like a switch. Theres no doubt about it but they are the three best in the world but maybe Xavi? I wouldn't say Kaka tore us appart, our CBs were Heinze and Brown I think and he was gifted his goals after they knocked each other over. And Messi doesn't do it week in week out, tonight he wasn't great against Sporting Gijon and the amount of space they gave him was ridiculus Ronaldo and Kaka would have loved it. Iniesta looked very good tonight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullard4england Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Nigel De Jong was really good at the Euros. I know you're just taking the mick out of City but I don't think you would be if you weren't (ever-so-slightly) looking over your shoulder? Kaka didn't take their oil money but plenty of other players will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goals53 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 What was the Barca score btw? Yeah i know we were poor but he was good i was in awe of him that night. Messi scares every defence apart from my local sunday team . Iniesta is good he will be there for years to come the Catalans love him. Ronaldo would of loved it are you suggesting he will be playing for Barca or Real? . Im not looking over my shoulder the Manchester clubs are like the Minouge sisters United being Kylie and City being Danni, aspiring to be as big as her but never ever ever will be . Chelsea threw all that money in but look they didnt win the Champs league with it (thanks to a slip ) they are so poor. They did ever so well againts Boro on saturday struggling to beat them (Y). Anyway Messi is the best and hes going to win the Baloon D'or next season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reillyg Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Barca won 3-1, I was suggesting that Messi has an easier job than Kaka and Ronaldo making Messi look better as It is harder for Kaka and Ronaldo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goals53 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Maybe it is an easier job but he does it do well. Who scored? Lets be honest AC are ageing and he wont be there much longer im guessing Real will buy him instead of Ronaldo hopefully! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blab Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Maybe it is an easier job but he does it do well. Who scored? Lets be honest AC are ageing and he wont be there much longer im guessing Real will buy him instead of Ronaldo hopefully! Well, on couple occasions he did say that he loves playing for Milan and will be there until the end of his career but if the club wants to sell him, he will go. I'm guessing that Milan will be a completely different squad in two or three seasons and that Kaka will be their leader. Pato and Gourcuff are there, Boriello and Antonini not that old, Flamini only 24. Those are great young players for Milan and Berlusconi will probably put in his two (or 2 trillion) cents Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_ACE Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Some delirious Man U fans here. Not all, but some. I'm a Milan fan, so I might as well say that Cristian Brocchi's PA is 170 simply because he plays for Milan and has won titles with them. Perhaps in another dimension or fantasy land that would be true. How about trying to be at least somewhat objective and impartial? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndebergerac Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I forgot to mention about Maradonna as well yes maybe he was good Prize for understatement of the thread? "maybe he was good"? Seriously? In FM in his prime, he would get a PA of 198+ I remember getting him as an aging has been in one of the CM games, and he was still great. I'm a United fan and I am re-creating the United 90's to 00's team combined on the database. What would you say realistically the PA's of the former United players or other footballing legends?I want to be accurate, so: Schmeichel 199 Cantona 196 Keane 195 Stam 185 Irwin 179 Kanchelskis 184 Hughes 183 Not a Unt fan, but saw enough of these players to have a good idea how good they were. Here's my opinion on them Schmeichel 199 Best GK I've ever seen, Better than Buffon who's slightly over-rated imo Cantona 192 Excellent player, but not amongst the very best of all time Keane 195 Not technically the best player, but the best player of his type I've seen, Davids and Vieira are close Stam 182 Very good, but was never the best in the world. Irwin 175 Solid pro at that level Kanchelskis 182 At his peak was one of the best wingers around, but there have been many better before and since Hughs 178 Very good, that's all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 People overate players from the old days. the best teams of the 60's wouldn't stand a chance in PL, serie A or La liga. They drank alot, ate crap and trained alot less than todays players. So G.Best should have like 165 even though he was a top player of his time. Todays top level players have diets set up by the clubs nurishment expert. they train more and train better than the players of the 60's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndebergerac Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 People overate players from the old days. the best teams of the 60's wouldn't stand a chance in PL, serie A or La liga.They drank alot, ate crap and trained alot less than todays players. So G.Best should have like 165 even though he was a top player of his time. Todays top level players have diets set up by the clubs nurishment expert. they train more and train better than the players of the 60's. Much of that is a matter of opinion. Some of the past players trained damn hard and weren't living the "celebrity lifestyle" maybe of todays "stars" enjoy. Best 165? You kidding? Despite his lifestyle choice he still ran circles round top class defenders, back when football matches actually had tackling. You've no idea what you are talking about. I suppose Moore and Pele are in the same boat, not good enough for the modern game. What a chump:thdn: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 No player of the 50's or 60 is near 200. 165 not good ebough for the modern game? 165 is supposed to be premier league superstar. 140 is a good premier league player, 150 a very good PL player. 200 is a superhuman. CA/PA is lower in game now than in FM06 for instance. They have adjusted the values. Look at the pace of the games played in the 60's compared to todays fotball. Hell, only need to go back to the 80's. For instance, Egil "Drillo" Olsen has be made Norwegian national coach, and he says the players he have today are much better than the ones he had in the 90's. Those players included Henning, Berg, Ronny Johnsen, Steffen Iversen, Øyvind Leonahardsen, Vegard Heggem, Tore Andre Flo, Kjetil Rekdal. He rate Hangeland of Fulham better than Henning Berg from Utd in the 90's skill for skill. However the opponments is also better, so even thouh he has better players now the job is harder, since the opponments has gotten alot better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tansrb Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Some silly people in here.Let me remind you, Buffon's PA is .. How could anyone with a brain possibly give Schmeichel less than that? Essien is ., so Keano must be AT LEAST 195, if not higher in all seriousness, you asked for people's opinion on your selected PAs, but now you're debating when someone says that one of your favourite players' PA should be lower. Schmeichel was good. but was he as good as Gordon Banks? i dont think so. Buffon is above Schmeichel in terms of class too. I laugh at the way you term people who give Schmeichel below Buffon in class "without a brain", cause in my humble opinion, you're the one without it. always remember, that Schmeichel played with a world class defence while Buffon at Juventus is playing with not as good defenders compared to United's defence at that time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneyhero Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 my advice would be choose who in you opinion is the greatest player of all time compare him to a top prem league player and use that as a guidline. e.g for me zidance was the greatest player ever therefore in his prime hed be 200 - 200 and a top player today would be may be fabregas, who im guessing is around 180 - 192 and a average prem player such as a jenas would be id say 160-175 id use something along these lines as a guidline Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ljuba82 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 PA of 199 means that player is best of all time. Like Maradona or Pele. So PA of 195 for Peter Sshmeihel is more than enough ...btw...Vidic is by far best CD in world now and probably the best CD in Man UTD ever... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviegman Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 All you people knocking carra are ridiculous, hes been one of the best central defenders in the prem over the last 5 or 6 years, easily as good if not better than stam. Lets start stam off with a drugs ban on the game for starters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwhitearmy Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 george best -200? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reillyg Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 george best -200? I dont think PA is the be all and end all of a players quality, George Best would have top dribbling, touch, balance and many other areas. But in other areas he wouldnt be that high tackling, marking etc so i could still be the best player in the world without a PA of 200. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelly27 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I dont know if I was seen things on the 1st page but did someone compare Roy Keane to Zidane Obviously another plastic Man Ure fan who watched Roy on the box. I have to say the other than Zidane the best player I have seen over the last decade or so would have to be Ronaldo. When he was at his best injury free playing for PSV and Barcelona. Then again his spell at Real Madrid when he recovered from those horrible injuries. His hat trick at Old Trafford is the greatest hat trick Ive had the privlege to watch. Back to the topic of those Man Ure players. Solskjaer was a cult player not a premiership great. Not up there with the best stikers in the world. A good sub, a good bench warmer. Nothing more. Get real *******. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviegman Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 completely agree with the above post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reillyg Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I dont know if I was seen things on the 1st page but did someone compare Roy Keane to Zidane Obviously another plastic Man Ure fan who watched Roy on the box.I have to say the other than Zidane the best player I have seen over the last decade or so would have to be Ronaldo. When he was at his best injury free playing for PSV and Barcelona. Then again his spell at Real Madrid when he recovered from those horrible injuries. His hat trick at Old Trafford is the greatest hat trick Ive had the privlege to watch. Back to the topic of those Man Ure players. Solskjaer was a cult player not a premiership great. Not up there with the best stikers in the world. A good sub, a good bench warmer. Nothing more. Get real *******. People dont seriously think Keane was better than Zidane, they just want to provoke a response which you just gave them. Ole is a legend and rightly so, he is the best finisher i have seen but not a world class striker, PA of about 175. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty bison Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Schmeichel 199 Best GK I've ever seen, Better than Buffon who's slightly over-rated imo Cantona 192 Excellent player, but not amongst the very best of all time Keane 195 Not technically the best player, but the best player of his type I've seen, Davids and Vieira are close Stam 182 Very good, but was never the best in the world. Irwin 175 Solid pro at that level Kanchelskis 182 At his peak was one of the best wingers around, but there have been many better before and since Hughs 178 Very good, that's all Again, you misunderstand what CA levels mean. Kanchelskis was "one of" the best wingers, so should be in the 160-170 bracket. "Solid pro" cannot mean more than 150-160. "Not technically the best player, but the best player of his type" could never imply 195. Go and look at the CA guidelines - 165 = leading star for a top-4 club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 my advice would be choose who in you opinion is the greatest player of all time compare him to a top prem league player and use that as a guidline. e.g for me zidance was the greatest player ever therefore in his prime hed be 200 - 200 and a top player today would be may be fabregas, who im guessing is around 180 - 192 and a average prem player such as a jenas would be id say 160-175 id use something along these lines as a guidline According to SI thats all wrong. They say an average premier league player is under 145, coz thats what they said was a good premier league player. 160-175 is England international players, but then again then England national team is full of average PL players so maybe you are right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunk Beware Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I laugh at deluded Man United fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndebergerac Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Again, you misunderstand what CA levels mean. Kanchelskis was "one of" the best wingers, so should be in the 160-170 bracket. "Solid pro" cannot mean more than 150-160. "Not technically the best player, but the best player of his type" could never imply 195. Go and look at the CA guidelines - 165 = leading star for a top-4 club. But I'm refering to the whole grand scale of things, compared to the best history has to offer (with my descriptions). Irwin was a top class Premier League player, but not amounst the very elite defenders of all time, 175 reflects that. If playing today, he would be amounst the best full backs in the EPL, better than Ashley Young and Patrice Evra, but not as good as past greats like Jorginho perhaps. I understand the PA/CA system, you just didn't understand where I was coming from with my brief descriptions. For Butters76 Tottenham manager Harry Redknapp has blasted Premier League players for being too pampered, claiming many players from the top flight would not have survived 20 years ago and need to "toughen up". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCIAG Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Not going to justify it? Haaa Van Der Sar broke the British Record today for not conceding a goal. Yay, Steve Death was world class! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopsy101 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 hunter your an idiot. go away and die somewhere nasty. you seem to know f all about football. keane was more a passer than a tackler and controlled games on his own. this hard tackler came from several incidents which were because of his quick temper. his mental stats should be way high as well as tackling and passing. strength and balance as well. a pa of 186 would be good. peter scheichel was fab and deserves about 190. not 199 stam deserves at least 185 as well as he was far best in the world at his peak. reillyg - to be fair messi does do it weak in week out. he has over 22 goals in about 25 games and set up at least 1 against gijon. he cant score every week and is by far the best in the world Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Lionheart Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 XD you insult me, then pretty much agree with my comments about his being overrated in the original post. Awesome:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 hunter your an idiot. go away and die somewhere nasty. you seem to know f all about football. That's uncalled for. I might not agree with him. But what the hell kind of response was that. Have a coke and a smile and shut the F up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Lionheart Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 He could be right. When I get close to snuffing it, I'll go to Liverpool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUFC-a-holic Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I dont know if I was seen things on the 1st page but did someone compare Roy Keane to Zidane Obviously another plastic Man Ure fan who watched Roy on the box.I have to say the other than Zidane the best player I have seen over the last decade or so would have to be Ronaldo. When he was at his best injury free playing for PSV and Barcelona. Then again his spell at Real Madrid when he recovered from those horrible injuries. His hat trick at Old Trafford is the greatest hat trick Ive had the privlege to watch. Back to the topic of those Man Ure players. Solskjaer was a cult player not a premiership great. Not up there with the best stikers in the world. A good sub, a good bench warmer. Nothing more. Get real *******. 100% spot on, great post:thup: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUFC-a-holic Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 george best -200? He was class, but then what would you give maradona, pele, van bastern, beckenbauer, bobby moore? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I cannot understand why people resort to abuse and insults when they disagree with someone. I am a United fan myself and think that some of the United players in this thread have been overrated by some people but to start labelling people as "*******" and telling them to die is uncalled for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Des Hamilton - 199 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algurgazan Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Ole is a legend and rightly so, he is the best finisher i have seen but not a world class striker, PA of about 175. You ever heard of some guy called Inzaghi? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 You ever heard of some guy called Inzaghi? Simone?!?! :confused: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 People dont seriously think Keane was better than Zidane, they just want to provoke a response which you just gave them. Ole is a legend and rightly so, he is the best finisher i have seen but not a world class striker, PA of about 175. So if Solskjær is 175 then they had to blow 200 scale for players Like Ian Wright and Gary Lineker. If sunny was 175, then Wright was 225 Sunny was about 150, remember 165 is a leading star for a top 4 club. Sunny was a leading benchwarmer for his striker collegues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChipK Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'm a United fan and I am re-creating the United 90's to 00's team combined on the database. What would you say realistically the PA's of the former United players or other footballing legends?I want to be accurate, so: Schmeichel 199 Cantona 196 Keane 195 Stam 185 Irwin 179 Kanchelskis 184 Hughes 183 I'm not a United fan, but this is how I'd rate them: Schmeichel 195, world class but 199 is to high Cantona 175, good but not THAT good Keane 180, good but not THAT good Stam 170, good but not THAT good Irwin 165, not world class I'd say Kanchelskis 165, again, not world class Hughes 170, same here Solskjær 145, good finisher but thats all Giggs 185, I don't know his PA, but thats how I'd rate him at his peak Beckham 175, again, I don't know his PA in game You have to remember that they did not rule in Europe, although they were the best in the PL. And giving them that high PA is taking away a lot of Sir Alex' influence. With only world class players like you rate them they would tear any team apart even with Souness in charge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I agree with most of what ChipK says, with the exception of Solskjaer. The guy had more than just finishing to his game. 145 is almost laughably low. I'd give him 170 if we're giving Hughes 170. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 A 145 for Solskjaer? That is seriously underrating him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'm a Man Utd fan, so maybe a bit of bias will inevitably creep in, but here's my attempt: Peter Schmeichel - 193 Best 'keeper in the world in his day. Lev Yashin was probably better, but Gianluigi Buffon certainly isn't. If anything, Buffon is the overrated one. Casillas is a better 'keeper than Buffon, in my opinion. Eric Cantona - 184 Cantona, in my opinion, is a hard one to decide on. The guy did have bags of ability, but I think it's widely accepted that there were limits to it. 184 seems fair to me. Had he performed better in Europe and had a better international career, I would have no problem giving him something closer to 190, although neither of those things are necessarily down to him lacking a certain level of ability. Roy Keane - 186 Keane regularly had fantastic midfielders like Gerrard and Vieira in his pocket, including in his later years. Around the '99 treble season, Keane was virtually peerless in the centre of midfield. Jaap Stam - 180 During his time for Man Utd, he was an absolute rock for us. 180 seems about right, as it suggests he was very good, but nevertheless is lower than what a number of other exceptional centre-backs would get. Denis Irwin - 170 Irwin went about his business with so little fuss, people easily forget just how good he was. I personally feel 165 is a tad too low. 170 doesn't imply world class, but it does do justice to just how good Irwin was. He was the definition of reliable. Andrei Kanchelskis - 170 Kanchelskis was all about pace. He was a flair player who could leave people for dead, but he didn't have much else to his game. 170 seems fair. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer - 177 Solskjaer was a deadly finisher, and that was undoubtedly his strongest asset. However, the guy also had a decent turn of pace, an ability to find and develop space, as well as much better passing and ball skills than a lot of people give him credit for. Definitely a far, far better player than your average bench warmer. Ryan Giggs - 189 189 is just about in world class territory, but a tier or so down on the world's very best. Giggs had so much to his game - pace, bags of skill, a decent eye for goal, a strong work ethic and a good tackle for a winger. If only his final ball was as good in his prime as it is now! David Beckham - 180 Beckham is another hard one to figure out. On the face of it, he didn't have amazing skills or much pace. But his passing was good as good as you'll see from anyone, he always worked his socks off and he was good at developing the play. 180 seems fair to me. Of course, this is all very subjective. I'm sure there'll be people who think I'm way off with all of those! Those are just the players ChipK listed. I'll post others if anyone wants me to! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'd rate Kanchelskis higher, at his peak he was better than Beckham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChipK Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I agree with most of what ChipK says, with the exception of Solskjaer. The guy had more than just finishing to his game. 145 is almost laughably low. I'd give him 170 if we're giving Hughes 170. My suggestions might be a bit off because it's been a while since some of these guys played at top level, but I still feel Solskjær would be overrated at 170. He was very good at one thing; scoring goals, but he was quite average in most other things, like physical stats and most technical stats. Some mental stats should be very good though, but I feel a PA of about 145 or slightly higher shold be able to reflect that (keep in mind that I don't know how much each stat "costs"). If he had been as good as you suggest I don't think he would be known as a super sub he would play from the start in most games. Since there isn't a "super sub" stat in the game as far as I know, it could be hard to reflect this ability in the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB1988 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 He was class, but then what would you give maradona, pele, van bastern, beckenbauer, bobby moore? 200 aswell i guess. It's impossible to judge which is the best, so make em all the best! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB1988 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Oh and also if carragher is so class why does he score so many own goals :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reillyg Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 My suggestions might be a bit off because it's been a while since some of these guys played at top level, but I still feel Solskjær would be overrated at 170. He was very good at one thing; scoring goals, but he was quite average in most other things, like physical stats and most technical stats. Some mental stats should be very good though, but I feel a PA of about 145 or slightly higher shold be able to reflect that (keep in mind that I don't know how much each stat "costs"). If he had been as good as you suggest I don't think he would be known as a super sub he would play from the start in most games. Since there isn't a "super sub" stat in the game as far as I know, it could be hard to reflect this ability in the game. Ole wasnt just a super sub he had so many other areas to his game. I havnt seen another player beat the offside trap either. He played very well on the right after Beckham and before Ronaldo, where he put in great crosses had good pass and through in more than his fair share of step overs. A great attacker, easily worth 170. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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